16 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

I can understand why Bioware did it the way they did, but I feel like it would have been more appropriate to have Calpernia be the nemesis if you recruited the mages, and Samson be the nemesis if you recruited the templars, because Calpernia resonates strongly with mage themes and Samson with templar themes, and I don't think it would be a hasty assumption to say that a PC would recruit one side or the other because they find that side more interesting. I feel caught between wanting the mages on my side and wanting to explore Calpernia's story, and I suspect I'm not the only one who feels that way.

[Xilizhra]

I thought that too, but what they command connects. If you help the Templars, you get mages and Calpernia fighting you. If you help the mages, you get Samson and the Red Templars fighting you.

True, but Samson really doesn't care about mage issues; he's driven to destroy the Chantry and avenge the templars, something that would resonate more if you had non-red templars fighting beside you. As for Calpernia, her personality and goals are a fair bit more interesting for a mage-sympathetic Inquisitor who could well understand the desire to rebuild and empower Tevinter.

[TEWR]

Frankly, I just as soon would've had Samson and Calpernia both present no matter your choice. 

 

If you recruit the Mages, the Templars are largely taken by red lyrium, and you get a quest to meet up with Ser Barris who is strung out on withdrawal from regular lyrium and is sorely avoiding the temptation to drink the red lyrium because of all the pain he's in. And he calls you out for your choice, because he extended the Inquisition a hand and they never came, and he saw too many good men and women either die or be taken by the RL

 

If you recruit the Templars, you get a quest to meet up with Fiona and the remnants of the Mage Rebellion as she's desperately trying to keep her people safe from Venatori and the people of both nations. And she calls you out for leaving the Mages to rot under Alexius, where the Mages had to align with the Venatori in order to save themselves or the children, but when she saw who they served she tried to get as many of them to flee as possible.

 

Small things, and by no means all of what I'd do, but the game would undoubtedly be stronger with both Samson and Calpernia present. Would make the final confrontation with Calpernia all the better. These are things that happen in my 'Verse and I'm going to write a fic dealing with the Well of Sorrows confrontation soon enough.

[Xilizhra]

If you recruit the Mages, the Templars are largely taken by red lyrium, and you get a quest to meet up with Ser Barris who is strung out on withdrawal from regular lyrium and is sorely avoiding the temptation to drink the red lyrium because of all the pain he's in. And he calls you out for your choice, because he extended the Inquisition a hand and they never came, and he saw too many good men and women either die or be taken by the RL

No he didn't. If you side with the mages, you never hear about any offer from Barris.

 

That said, I like the rest of your idea.

 

 

Templars controlling Mages was a part of Samson's life before he lost everything. My Hawke even made him a Templar again and he joined her in a final battle. Calpernia wants to restore Tevinter, a place filled with magic, so why not destroy those who prevent free mages? In the end, it's all Mages VS Templars again.

Samson literally doesn't care about that at all anymore. He doesn't want to restore his former life, he wants to destroy the Chantry. As for Calpernia... she has no prior relationship with the southern templars at all.

[Steelcan]

No he didn't. If you side with the mages, you never hear about any offer from Barris.

I think it can still be assumed that he reaches out to the Inquisition, it just doesn't get built on because the Inquisitor decides not to pursue it.

[TEWR]

 

 

No he didn't. If you side with the mages, you never hear about any offer from Barris

 

Yes he did. It's mentioned in the Templar quest's preceding cutscene before you affirm the choice. Cullen mentions a Templar has contacted them. Barris reveals during the quest itself that he was that Templar.

 

Siding with the Mages doesn't change that. What it changes is that the protagonist went with the Mages over the Templars, but Barris still extended to them contact regardless.

[riverbanks]

I feel like it would have been more appropriate to have Calpernia be the nemesis if you recruited the mages, and Samson be the nemesis if you recruited the templars,

 

Yes, absolutely agree. I've been grouching about this since like release day: mage-allying Inquisition should have faced the worst of mages, and Templar-allying Inquisition should have faced the worst of Templars. Mages should want to deal with the Venatori to prove to Southern Thedas they can be free without being corrupt, Templars should want to eliminate the corruption in their ranks and prove they can still do good.

 

The way the game is set up is like your side just wants to exact some kind of vendetta - you allied with the mages so you must want to kill all Templars, or you allied with the Templars so you must want to kill all mages. It's petty, and you lose any nuance of wanting to actually help your side weed out the worst in it and raise its best. It becomes a game of us versus them, instead of the better narrative of us facing ourselves.

 

On the other hand,

 

the game would undoubtedly be stronger with both Samson and Calpernia present.

 

This is also true. By having only one of Corypheus' generals in each side, you inevitably miss half of his character's story. It feels disingenuous that the game holds half its plot back from you and forces you to do multiple multiple playthroughs to understand the whole picture.

 

I get that they want to offer replayability, but replayability shouldn't come at the expense of good storytelling. In the end having the plot split in two doesn't really make me eager and excited to play both sides, it just makes me resent being forced to play through the faction I wanted nothing to do with, just in order to understand the full picture.

[Xilizhra]

Yes he did. It's mentioned in the Templar quest's preceding cutscene before you affirm the choice. Cullen mentions a Templar has contacted them. Barris reveals during the quest itself that he was that Templar.

 

Siding with the Mages doesn't change that. What it changes is that the protagonist went with the Mages over the Templars, but Barris still extended to them contact regardless.

That seems pretty Schrodingery to me, like Samson inexplicably dying in the templar path so that Calpernia can become the Vessel.

[Lady Nuggins]

What would the actual logistics of inverting them be, though? You've got an army of mages and an army of templars both falling under Corypheus' control. You intervene and take control of one of those armies, thus forcing him to pour all of his resources into the other. 

 

So if you took control of the mage army... where would the other mages come from to attack you? And where did the templars go? Why would Calpernia be hanging out with templars or Samson with mages? And why would those other mages not show up to attack you if you did it the other way?

 

I do love both Calpernia and Samson, but getting to see only one or the other is one of the things that increased the replay value, for me. They made the choice far more nuanced and interesting than it felt in DA2. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I think both should have made an appearance regardless of what side you chose. After all, Corypheus still commands both Red Templars and the Venatori despite your choice, so they could still serve as the leaders of each faction. Plus it could be symbolic for them to be Corypheus' Right and Left Hands.

[AresKeith]

The nemeses made sense to me, the real issue to me was the lack of the other faction after you chose betweeen Mages and Templar

 

blaming last-gen for it

[TEWR]

I think both should have made an appearance regardless of what side you chose. After all, Corypheus still commands both Red Templars and the Venatori despite your choice, so they could still serve as the leaders of each faction. Plus it could be symbolic for them to be Corypheus' Right and Left Hands.

 

The important thing is that they'd serve as direct foils to our Inner Circle. Samson is the foil to Cullen (in theory), while Calpernia is the foil to Leliana. Florianne is the foil to Josephine.

 

Erimond's basically the Sokka of the group . But in all seriousness I truly wish Bioware had gone that route, having them all serve as Cory's inner Circle rather then be divided -- Florianne however knows of Erimond's plot, so she's probably met him, which is good for the Florimond shippers (of which I am proudly one).

[JadeDragon]

I agree with both being present despite who you side it. That way we could have had Cory's Inner Circle in cutsecenes and seen how they interact with him and each other. Just who ever you side with would decide who had more power in his circle. For example if you side with templars Calperina is his right hand and her scenes are the same but Samson still commands the templars Flo should have been the mastermind controlling the Freeman and Ishamel could have been sent by nightmare to supervise the demons like envy and such. Arbor wilds could have played the same but before you enter the temple you fight the other general in this case when you meet up with cullen there is a cutscene were you fight Samson with cullen making the interaction more dramatic and you still judge him. Once inside the temple the rest plays the same. I like how origins had little updates of loghain and howe. Seeing the reaction of Samson after taking a heavy blow after Empress du lion and Calperina taunting him or Calperina being furious after the hissing waste and Samson telling Cory his templars would have got the job done would have given the villains some character development

[SgtSteel91]

True, but Samson really doesn't care about mage issues; he's driven to destroy the Chantry and avenge the templars, something that would resonate more if you had non-red templars fighting beside you. As for Calpernia, her personality and goals are a fair bit more interesting for a mage-sympathetic Inquisitor who could well understand the desire to rebuild and empower Tevinter.

 

It would be ideal if you had both of them to get these stories across but I think it was a concession that if you only had to choose one side you could get a taste of the other side's grievances through the nemesis.