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[Ardent Blossom]

Is it really wrong for the Dalish to worship what is essentially their own re-imagining of the Elven Gods, even if the truth was they were nothing like their stories, if it meant they could carve out their own identity and stand against assimilation from Humanity and the Qun?

It would certainly be a bad thing if one of the false elven gods showed up and used the Dalish to do their bidding. 

 

Similarly, is there anything wrong is believing aliens built the pyramids? I say that type of theory diminishes humanity's faith in its own potential. Dalish religion does the same thing. It gives gods credit for elven achievements. The Dalish myths might be fun stories, but the truth is more impressive and more likely to allow The People to learn from mistakes of the past. 

 

Also, cultural identity can be based on more than common religious beliefs. In my opinion, a portion of the elven community regardless of beliefs would always segregate itself just to keep elves from dying out. That self imposed segregation (as well as the common experience of being alienated by other races) can keep culture and language alive as well.  

[LobselVith8]

It would certainly be a bad thing if one of the false elven gods showed up and used the Dalish to do their bidding.

Similarly, is there anything wrong is believing aliens built the pyramids? I say that type of theory diminishes humanity's faith in its own potential. Dalish religion does the same thing. It gives gods credit for elven achievements. The Dalish myths might be fun stories, but the truth is more impressive and more likely to allow The People to learn from mistakes of the past.

It's not like the Dalish credit the Creators with the accomplishments of Shartan and the elven army who opposed the Imperium, or their perseverance against the odds to survive in an environment that is overly hostile to them. Even the Dalish protagonist isn't credited as being blessed by the Creators; his achievements are viewed as his own.

Also, cultural identity can be based on more than common religious beliefs. In my opinion, a portion of the elven community regardless of beliefs would always segregate itself just to keep elves from dying out. That self imposed segregation (as well as the common experience of being alienated by other races) can keep culture and language alive as well.

I think the kinship among the Dalish is a very positively aspect of their culture, as highlighted by Merrill's dialogue to Sebastian, where she talks about how they look after each other.

Wycome (under Lavellan rule) gives me hope for the Dalish, as does the possibilities of an elven Comte of Kirkwall who could be viewed as a hero due to potentially stopping Sebastian's attempted invasion of Kirkwall; he would have an opportunity to set aside land for the clans who congregated at Skyhold, and he may be able to keep intact his lyrium trade with Orzammar.

[Ardent Blossom]

It's not like the Dalish credit the Creators with the accomplishments of Shartan and the elven army who opposed the Imperium, or their perseverance against the odds to survive in an environment that is overly hostile to them. Even the Dalish protagonist isn't credited as being blessed by the Creators; his achievements are viewed as his own.

 

I'm not talking about Shartan and other more modern elves. The Dalish credit the works of the evanuris (elves who were powerful mages) to "gods." That's what I mean. They see Ghilan'nan's creating new animals as a feat beyond the ability of mere elves. They see it as the work of a god. By misinterpreting their ancestors as gods they are diminishing the perceived potential of elves. I don't know if that makes sense.

 

They wander the countryside without a home, still praying to their "gods" for help, when they could possibly achieve some of the same "greatness" themselves. They could lift themselves up, establish a homeland, and so forth as elves without need of gods.

 

Power to The People and what not blah blah blah. Okay, I'm officially sick of channeling my inner John Lennon.

[LobselVith8]

I'm not talking about Shartan and other more modern elves. The Dalish credit the works of the evanuris (elves who were powerful mages) to "gods." That's what I mean. They see Ghilan'nan's creating new animals as a feat beyond the ability of mere elves. They see it as the work of a god. By misinterpreting their ancestors as gods they are diminishing the perceived potential of elves. I don't know if that makes sense.

They wander the countryside without a home, still praying to their "gods" for help, when they could possibly achieve some of the same "greatness" themselves. They could lift themselves up, establish a homeland, and so forth as elves without need of gods.

Power to The People and what not blah blah blah. Okay, I'm officially sick of channeling my inner John Lennon.

Traveling is simply a matter of survival. The Andrastian kingdoms criminalized their religion, templars pursue them for their free mages, and humans attack them; it's the reason why Clan Lavellan travels between the territorial boundaries of the Free Marched, since human lords are less likely to attack for fear of provoking a war with a neighbor by crossing into their lands.

Also, Clan Lavellan and the involvement of an elven protagonist can change this - with Wycome serving as a home to the clan of the "Herald of Andraste" who are heroes for saving humans and elves, and possibly with Kirkwall due to the protagonist becoming an elven Comte and possibly getting lands.

[neonmoth]

However, what makes a god a god?  These beings were beyond being just elves, even in ancient times.  They were nearly impossible to kill.  They apparently formed from spirits, or something akin to spirits, and gave themselves bodies (other than maybe Ghilan'ain who appears to have begun as a mortal--but perhaps she too was a spirit made flesh).

 

The ancient elven gods might not be gods by most of our standards, but given their origins and given their nature, and just how powerful they were?  They certainly do qualify, even if Solas disagrees.  It's a matter of perception.

 

Having means to shape the fabric of the world on a grand scale, as Solas demonstrated by creating the Fade, could be classed as having divine powers. Granted, we don't know how he performed that feat, still if we consider other members of the pantheon as capable of similar (or even lesser) influence, we might describe them as supreme beings=>gods. The question then is whether their powers are innate to them or derived from something bigger.

[Ardent Blossom]

Having means to shape the fabric of the world on a grand scale, as Solas demonstrated by creating the Fade, could be classed as having divine powers. Granted, we don't know how he performed that feat, still if we consider other members of the pantheon as capable of similar (or even lesser) influence, we might describe them as supreme beings=>gods. The question then is whether their powers are innate to them or derived from something bigger.

Well, I think we're not all really on the same wavelength with this "god" business. That's ok. Variety's the spice of life.

 

Solas didn't just will the veil into existence. Those elven artifacts scattered throughout the game probably have something to do with it. If humanity were to terraform another planet using technology would we all be literal "gods"? This whole idea that being powerful and doing something impressive makes you a "god" is troubling. By this definition any one with a nuclear weapon has the potential to be a "god." 

 

Seeming like a god and being a god are two different things to theists. If there are real supernatural, divine gods in Thedas that's one thing. Powerful people who are treated as if they are gods is something else.

 

I told Cory I didn't believe in gods, so you all know I'm biased on this subject. All gods are false gods. This codex basically sums up my view on gods in Thedas.

http://dragonage.wik...auran's_Claim  

[Wulfram]

We're not really given much opportunity to doubt or question the notion that the Evanuris are just powerful mages. My Inquisitor just seemed to accept it.

I mean, I do think there is quite a lot of room for doubt or alternative interpretation, but from the way Bioware wrote the DLC it seemed like we were just supposed to accept it.

The faith theme only really seemed to apply to Andrastean inquisitors. And Corypheus, I suppose. But not Dalish Inquisitors, their religion is basically forgotten.

[Brass_Buckles]

Having means to shape the fabric of the world on a grand scale, as Solas demonstrated by creating the Fade, could be classed as having divine powers. Granted, we don't know how he performed that feat, still if we consider other members of the pantheon as capable of similar (or even lesser) influence, we might describe them as supreme beings=>gods. The question then is whether their powers are innate to them or derived from something bigger.

 

But a god doesn't have to be a supreme being.

 

The Avvar look at spirits as gods--not just the major spirits, but minor ones too.  You may or may not agree, but there are extant cultures here in the real world where people would agree with the Avvar.  And the spirits even answer the Avvars' prayers!  They represent something--each spirit represents a concept--that they also embody and perhaps even encourage to continue existing in the world.  You can imagine there are probably spirits of things other than just emotions, if there are spirits of winter and warfare like Hakkon.  Spirits of fertility, spirits of health, spirits of the hunt.  Appealing to them actually does some good, so even if you didn't feel they were gods or worthy of worship, it wouldn't hurt to be respectful.

 

Few people are going to argue that if Joe Schmoe down the road is worshiping the weather girl, that the weather girl is actually a god.  Maybe she's a god to Joe Schmoe's mind, but to the rest of us she's clearly human--even if he convinces us to worship her, she'll still age and die and live out a relatively ordinary life.  So there is more to it than simply what one worships, but yet godhood doesn't necessitate being a supreme being, or omniscient, or perfect.

 

Back to the elven gods being a subject of faith vs. doubt--just because they were cruel doesn't mean they weren't potentially gods.  And if they were able to meddle with the fabric of reality (it seems they were), were immortal (we know they were--Solas couldn't risk trying to kill them), and were leagues more capable of supernatural feats in magic than anyone else (which they were, or why would anyone worship them if they were barely more powerful?) then maybe if they weren't gods, they at least weren't "just" elves.

 

Solas looks extremely powerful to us at this point.  But we do not know how he compares to the power he used to have, or how his current, or former, power compares to what other ancient elves have or had in the past.

 

Given the ancient elves' particular traits, modern elves could readily see every single one of them as at least a minor deity.  They wouldn't, because apparently they agree that they were once all immortal (interesting things could be done with that if they didn't believe all elves had been immortal, but that ship has sailed).  Also, all ancient elves were mages.

 

The pantheon, though:  Those were the first elves, from what we can gather.  They were much more powerful than anyone else (we don't know whether that's a consequence of being first, and gathering that power somehow, or if it's by their natures when they were spirits, or something else that maybe we don't understand yet).  Even if they aren't truly gods, they might be one of the closest things to it in all of Thedas.  But it certainly is possible to view them as gods and, I would argue, one would not be incorrect to do so.  Remember that Solas speaks from the position of someone who was on an equal level to them.  Do gods seem godly to another god?

 

There's room for faith in them as gods and there's room for saying, "No, Solas is right and they were just more elves."  Same for the Titans, if one were to want a dwarf to become religious.  Qunari don't have a religion but a philosophy instead, so I can't speak about their gods.  And as for the Maker... it can be argued either way because we haven't, and likely never will, met the Maker in person.

[neonmoth]

Well, I think we're not all really on the same wavelength with this "god" business. That's ok. Variety's the spice of life.

 

Solas didn't just will the veil into existence. Those elven artifacts scattered throughout the game probably have something to do with it. If humanity were to terraform another planet using technology would we all be literal "gods"? This whole idea that being powerful and doing something impressive makes you a "god" is troubling. By this definition any one with a nuclear weapon has the potential to be a "god." 

 

Seeming like a god and being a god are two different things to theists. If there are real supernatural, divine gods in Thedas that's one thing. Powerful people who are treated as if they are gods is something else.

 

I told Cory I didn't believe in gods, so you all know I'm biased on this subject. All gods are false gods. This codex basically sums up my view on gods in Thedas.

http://dragonage.wik...auran's_Claim  

We are definitely not on the same wavelength  I was simply trying to find an angle on why evanuris were perceived as gods by the ancient elves and later by the Dalish, whereas you seem to be primarily concerned with the nature of godhood itself. It's is likely my fault since I jumped into thread in a particular mindset, wondering what makes a being a god in the eyes of others. In this line of thought (purely theorizing here), "Being powerful and doing something impressive", might make you a "god" in the eyes of others. Particularly if that "powerful and impressive" thing is a mystery that is not freely available to an average person. Using nuclear power nowadays might not give you a status of a god (of destruction) but what if such weapon was used millennia ago?

 

I am not particularly attached to the idea of Elven pantheon as gods. Solas clearly does not perceive them as such and I'm cool with that. 

 

Edit: @Brass_Buckles, in the context of my musings I completely agree with you. Look how close people are to worshipping Herald when all you did was surviving the Breach. Okay, there is that thing of closing the Breach later on but... I appreciate Solas' sentiment but it is hard to perceive someone who created the veil as an above-average guy. I can easily reconcile Evanuris worship with his attitude. It is fine that in his eyes they weren't gods but I don't hold it against Elvhen (especially Dalish) that worshipped them as such. Hope I am clear, since I don't really feel like I am presenting myself as I would want to.

 

Also, sorry for killing the thread. Have mesmerizing Solas 

 

 

linky

[Abelis]

We are definitely not on the same wavelength  I was simply trying to find an angle on why evanuris were perceived as gods by the ancient elves and later by the Dalish, whereas you seem to be primarily concerned with the nature of godhood itself. It's is likely my fault since I jumped into thread in a particular mindset, wondering what makes a being a god in the eyes of others. In this line of thought (purely theorizing here), "Being powerful and doing something impressive", might make you a "god" in the eyes of others. Particularly if that "powerful and impressive" thing is a mystery that is not freely available to an average person. Using nuclear power nowadays might not give you a status of a god (of destruction) but what if such weapon was used millennia ago?

-snip-

I think one is the answer to the other. How they were perceived/declared as gods, shows the nature of godhood itself, at least in the case of the Evanuris.

 

Solas explains how they came to be seen/worshipped as gods:

"It started with a war. War breeds fear. Fear breeds a desire for simplicity. Good and evil. Right or wrong. Chains of command. After the war ended, generals became respected elders, then kings, then finally gods".

 

Same as Geldauran's Claim says: There are no gods. There is only the subject and the object, the actor and the acted upon. Those with will to earn dominance over others gain title not by nature but by deed.

[dragonflight288]

I'm not talking about Shartan and other more modern elves. The Dalish credit the works of the evanuris (elves who were powerful mages) to "gods." That's what I mean. They see Ghilan'nan's creating new animals as a feat beyond the ability of mere elves. They see it as the work of a god. By misinterpreting their ancestors as gods they are diminishing the perceived potential of elves. I don't know if that makes sense.

 

 

....that story may actually be true.

 

The evanuris existed during a time when there was no veil at all to separate the Fade from the World. They were one and the same, and people of great power and talent could will things into being. 

 

And that very connection between the two realms of reality is why the devastation was so great when Solas set up the veil and that library torn asunder. For all we know, the Black City could very well be Arlathan because we know it existed BEFORE the veil did. 

 

If we lived in a time where there is no veil and the Fade is one with the World, and people of sufficient power can will things into being, then it may very well be possible for one of the evanuris actually did create halla and other animals.

 

May be, like Hircine in Elder Scrolls, to give themselves a thing to hunt, or simply to prove they could to those who couldn't do the same thing, but it may be possible that it actually happened. 

 

The grain of truth being that the animals were indeed created, but the misinterpretation is the reason or true power behind the act. 

[nightscrawl]

Dorian comments that they would be just like Tevinter magisters, if that were the case. He kind of gloats over it even.

Just want to comment on this one thing... I took Dorian's tone to be more in reference to the "evil" Tevinter magister aspect of it, rather than god vs not-god. His entire time in the south he's had to deal with the attitude that all mages from Tevinter are magisters, who use blood magic, own slaves, are power-hungry, and so forth. So when it comes to finding out something like this I can see how he'd be like, "See! It's not just us!" So I took it to be more about feeling vindicated, rather than gloating over the non-divinity of the elven pantheon, particularly since he doesn't express disdain for it during the entire rest of the game -- compare with lines from Anders or Sebastian in DA2 -- nor during the Temple of Mythal scenes.

 

On another note: Bioware has done a lot to tear down the belief system of the dwarves and the elves in their games. Any theories on how and when they are gonna tear down the beliefs of the Qun and/or the Chantry?

 
Qunari don't have a god though. They revere Koslun as the founder of their religion and way of life which they believe is the one true way to live and be, but he's not a supreme being. There really isn't anything that can be torn down in that case other than to show that their way is not inherently superior.

 

Someone's comparison of the elven pantheon to the Greek or Norse gods above is a good one, and I think that is the chief way that sets that belief system apart from belief in the Maker. Like the Greek or Norse gods, the elven ones are presented as having personalities, individual names, relationships with each other, and so on -- both Zeus and Odin come down to earth in disguise on numerous occasions and do various things. But the Maker, like our own real-world God in any of the three major religions, is primarily presented as this nebulous being that sometimes influences events. Sure, He may get pissed at His children over this or that misdeed, but that's really all the force of personality that He has. I tend to feel that the Maker or the real-world God is much less relatable than any of those others, and thus requires that the believer rely more on their personal faith to sustain that belief.

 

So, with the above in mind, I don't know how belief in the Maker can be torn down. The Chantry and its teachings? Sure, that is certainly doable, particularly if it becomes commonly accepted that most of the Chant of Light is bunk. There are plenty of people, like Dorian and my own Inquisitor, that have strong faith in the Maker but don't support the Chantry as an institution. In that sense their faith is very personal and doesn't need validation from an outside source.

 

I actually really liked DAI's themes of faith vs doubt and heavily incorporated that into my Inquisitor's RP. He's Andrastian, believes in the Maker, but also goes along with the teaching that the Maker has abandoned His children. But then here is this mortal man who is suddenly being referred to as the "Herald of Andraste" and that idea makes him very uncomfortable, partly because it seems borderline blasphemous to be placed anywhere near the level of Andraste, and also because if the Maker has decided to intervene now, what does that mean for all those times he did not? Those are the kinds of issues my Inquisitor struggled with during the entire game, made even worse after the whole Adamant ordeal.

 

It was quite interesting and I enjoyed being able to craft this part of my Inquisitor's story.

[nightscrawl]

....that story may actually be true.

 

The evanuris existed during a time when there was no veil at all to separate the Fade from the World. They were one and the same, and people of great power and talent could will things into being. 

 

And that very connection between the two realms of reality is why the devastation was so great when Solas set up the veil and that library torn asunder. For all we know, the Black City could very well be Arlathan because we know it existed BEFORE the veil did. 

 

If we lived in a time where there is no veil and the Fade is one with the World, and people of sufficient power can will things into being, then it may very well be possible for one of the evanuris actually did create halla and other animals.

 

May be, like Hircine in Elder Scrolls, to give themselves a thing to hunt, or simply to prove they could to those who couldn't do the same thing, but it may be possible that it actually happened. 

 

The grain of truth being that the animals were indeed created, but the misinterpretation is the reason or true power behind the act. 

 

Ardent Blossom is not doubting the veracity of the animal creation story, they are suggesting that by modern elves crediting that work to their gods, rather than simply elven mages (as powerful as they were), the modern elves aren't giving their race and its potential enough credit. It's, "We need these gods to do things for us," rather than, "Look what we can do!"

 

That said, I don't necessarily agree with that viewpoint. The evanuris were extremely powerful and practically god-like already, enslaving all the rest of their kind. So even though they weren't actually gods, I don't think it should be viewed as if they were elves either, as I think that gives the false impression that anyone can aspire to have that sort of power.

[dragonflight288]

Ardent Blossom is not doubting the veracity of the animal creation story, they are suggesting that by modern elves crediting that work to their gods, rather than simply elven mages (as powerful as they were), the modern elves aren't giving their race and its potential enough credit. It's, "We need these gods to do things for us," rather than, "Look what we can do!"

 

That said, I don't necessarily agree with that viewpoint. The evanuris were extremely powerful and practically god-like already, enslaving all the rest of their kind. So even though they weren't actually gods, I don't think it should be viewed as if they were elves either, as I think that gives the false impression that anyone can aspire to have that sort of power.

 

I'm open to the possibility that things may or may not have happened in a world where everyone is a mage and there is no veil separating realms, where the real world and the Fade are one and the same, and everyone is immortal. 

 

In such a world, magical capacity and talent would be the hall-marks of power, and if there were certain entitites that were capable of feats of magic so far above and beyond what normal people could do, mixed in with the war and the respect and power that comes with reputation that Solas mentioned, I do not think it inconceivable that they were a group of elves who were at the level of the Inquisitor, the Warden and Hawke in their ability, earned recognition and respect in conflict, and then seized upon it, taking power for themselves.

 

Then Solas led his rebellion and ultimately created the veil and destroying all elven society, culture, cities and way of life in the process, and made it so not everyone was a mage and not everyone was immortal. 

 

Those who did not fight, or who were born after but were raised with the stories would then remember the deeds of the evanuris and elevated them to godhood because it was no longer possible to achieve what they have achieved with the veil.

 

Of course, this is all strictly theory and there are probably gaping holes in my logic right now that I don't see since I'm tired, and I'm likely overlooking some lore or something, but I think it's entirely possible that the things the evanuris are given credit for in the stories are things that they actually did, but the motivation, source of power and maybe even the act itself may be misremembered. 

 

The thing that I like about the Dalish's beliefs in comparison to the Chantry's is that they believe that since their gods are sealed away (which they are, although they are not actually gods, but are godlike in power) so for the most part since the rebellion against Tevinter, the rise of the Dales and then the fall of them and the Dalish clans, they attritube their successes to themselves and have a strong sense of unity, whereas the Chantry can sometimes contradict themselves in the role the Maker has in their lives, like that he is an absentee god because of Maferath's betrayal of his own wife, who technically was cheating on him with a divine husband, and thus does not interfere in people's daily lives, which is why Leliana is scorned by the Chantry in Origins, yet attribute a great deal of what happens in day-to-day life to him, from Sebastian telling Fenris he may have survived his ordeal in Tevinter to spread his story because the Maker was looking out for him to Elthina waiting for him to intervene and deal with the mages and templars for her so she wouldn't have to pick sides. 

 

But that's the nice thing about the Dragon Age games. There isn't a society or a religion in the game that doesn't come with its flaws. 

[Knight of Dane]

Just gonna throw this one out there, but so far, all we have on these claims are from a Temple built for Solas and his freed slaves and Solas' word.

 

Who's to say he isn't lying? Or simply a non-beleiver from his own time, a heretic?

 

Not saying he is, just saying that we should wait and see until we declare what Solas claims as definite truth, no?

[Samahl na Revas]

Interpretation vs misinterpretation.

 

They say it is easy to steal candy from a baby but very few ever analyze the why and how. The child youthful holds very few things tightly. Faith is a clenched fist refusing to open.

 

Doubt is a palm open deciding whether what comes should be discarded.

 

Each connected to something and discarding something else. Yes, that inescapable connectedness: bias. More specifically confirmation bias.

 

"But they are gods to the Avvar." "they could be perceived as minor deities of a sort."  :

 

Even if a lie is proven to be just that a lie, doesn't make it any less true. Forget evidence to the contrary... 

 

 I've seen this done before: Ah, yes, those fools worshiping fade-rifts and singing the end of the world. "Demons would cleanse the unworthy."    Funny, an organization built around faith would have cultist no better than Tevinter. Deplorable.

 

Faith or its lack of has always been decided by the player. Role-playing. If it was ever tested it says something. What that means could never be decided by something else that is the essence of true faith.

 

Though, I imagine a truth proven a lie is harder to swallow. Dalish or no. I mean do you really imagine none rejected Solas and remained faithful to the Evanuris? How or why, we do not know. But, weapons were raised to defend freedom and that says enough.

 

 

 

 

[Gervaise]

I think there have been reasons to shake a person's faith in the Chantry, even if they still believe in the Maker.   There are plenty of references in game to a different history about the way Andraste met her end (also found in WoT2) which totally conflicts with the story found in the Chant, presumably written by scholars from the University of Orlais.    She never reached anyway near the gates of Minrathous.   The original Valarian Fields must have been many miles to the south of where they are currently shown.    She was kidnapped from her stronghold in Nevarra, not ambushed by an alleged magic pool on the eve of her assault on Minrathous.    She was never a slave in Tevinter itself but merely captured by Tevinter forces operating in the south.   Mafareth is definitely thought to have betrayed her for strategic reasons because he felt they had over stretched themselves and if they continued on into Tevinter itself they would taste defeat. 

 

Then we have the whole business of the anchor.   People believed Andraste have saved the Herald from the explosion and given them the mark of the Maker's favour.   Subsequently we discovered that Andraste had nothing to do with it and the anchor and orb were elven.  Then in the Fade we find out the identity of the mystery women but when we get back Mother Giselle advises us to hush it up.   Now we know that it was Solas, an elven deity (even if he doesn't claim as much) who gave the orb to Corypheus and is the only person who can truly control the anchor which is now killing us.   Finally he chops our arm off altogether.    I suppose the Chantry will rather appreciate the opportunity to tie in the loss of the mark of the Maker's favour with the reduction/disbanding of the Inquisition.   

 

As for my Dalish Inquisitor, faith was dealt something of a blow at the Temple of Mythal and later on meeting Mythal herself but actually, after the confrontation with Solas and a bit of quiet reflection, he has acquired a renewed sense of his Dalish beliefs.   After all, contrary to what it seemed before, they actually did get a lot of their history right.   Okay so the humans weren't to blame for their loss of immortality or their empire but such misunderstanding was likely due to the passage of time and the fact that the surviving elves did suffer at the hands of humans and still do.   However, their legend concerning the loss was spot on.   Fen'Harel did shut them away so they couldn't interact with their followers anymore and this did coincide with the fall of their empire.   We also were all once magical and immortal

 

As for the nature of the gods, again tending to see them in a far more benevolent light than they actually possessed it also due to the length of time and nostalgic view of the past.   However, we do only have Solas' word for it just how bad they were.   He says that vallaslin were the marks of slaves but he also says that Mythal was the best of the evanuris and cared for her people, yet her followers had vallaslin.   So either they were not universally regarded as slave marks or they were not all cruel, exploitative masters.   Abelas says he is bound to the service of Mythal but that doesn't imply he was bound against his will or that it wasn't more a bond of sworn duty.   He seemed free enough to go his own way once the Well no longer needed guarding.   

 

Whilst Fen'Harel provided a safe haven for those fleeing the gods, we do not know if they were people fleeing tyrants or merely criminals who had broken the law.   Solas actually admits that much of what we read was his followers propaganda.    The evanuris only words we get to read warn of the Dread Wolf and the description they give fits perfectly with our experience of him.   There is also an incident shown of an argument between Falon'Din and Elgar'nan, where Mythal adjudicated and suggested that instead of going to war, they should each choose a champion to fight for them and abide by the result.   This seems a very civilised way of resolving issues and quite unlike the behaviour of power hungry tyrants.   Compare the resolution of their differences with the conduct of the civil war in Orlais.     The voices of the people in the library seemed genuinely distressed at the loss of their gods and bitter at Fen'Harel.   Hardly the reaction of liberated slaves but then they had been left stranded by the loss of magic and presumably starved to death.

 

I'm not saying that the evanuris were perfect but I am now starting to question simply accepting everything Solas says as the absolute truth.    He even contradicts himself about the reason for shutting them away.    First he says it is because of what they did to Mythal, then he says it is because he couldn't be sure he could kill then, then he says it is because the alternative was worse as they would destroy the world.     We never do get the opportunity to ask in what way they were going to destroy the world or how it was worse than what he did or what he proposes to do.

 

So my Dalish will not be offering any prayers to the Creators now, since he knows if nothing else that they definitely can't respond, and he won't be offering any prayers to Fen'Harel either.    But the blessing to save his fellows from the Dread Wolf still seems very appropriate.