4:50 - Tamlen says that "These ruins look more human than elven"
and 7:32 - he says "This looks like human architecture... with a statue of our people. Can these ruins date back to the time of Arlathan?" And yeah, it was Duncan who says that the ruins are Tevinter. For me, there are many parts of the history of Tevinter and Elven that match each other, but maybe I keep all of it too simple.
Tevinter scavenged buildings as much as elven artifacts in their raise to power, but their own architecture looks totally different (see Kirkwall in DA2 and Adamant in DAI for Tevinter architecture examples). No human architecture looks like the elven one in any of the games and elven architecture is consistent through all 3 games.
Bottom of the story, if it looks like an elven ruins it is an elven ruins even if some ignorant guy in-game tell you otherwise.
Well that's disappointing if the statues are just culturally absorbed Tevinter-Elven.
What do you think of the nature of the Wellspring? Did it disappear at the end of Descent or did the wall just block it off? And is the "sky" endless or does it have a bottom? If there are pillars coming out of the ground there must be a bottom. Was it an illusion, because while fighting the guardian everything turns dark?
I know there's basically no information and this is purely speculative. Here, have a photo I took.
Well that's disappointing if the statues are just culturally absorbed Tevinter-Elven.
What do you think of the nature of the Wellspring? Did it disappear at the end of Descent or did the wall just block it off? And is the "sky" endless or does it have a bottom? If there are pillars coming out of the ground there must be a bottom. Was it an illusion, because while fighting the guardian everything turns dark?
I know there's basically no information and this is purely speculative. Here, have a photo I took.
Yeah I took a billion pictures of the Wellspring. Like someone mentioned before, we are inside a Titan, so no, I don't think it's bottomless.
Considering Lyrium and its effects, I don't doubt it has an impact on what we're seeing in the Wellspring. It does summon memories of what the Dwarves have often said about the surface "aren't you scared of falling into the sky". Maybe this is the origin of that saying, though that doesn't mean it's bottomless. It could be an illusion or the clouds could be a product of the inner workings of a Titan i.e. its biology. We also have no idea how huge Titans are, though Valta alludes to them dwarfing (pun intended) beasts such as Dragons (as we well know).
The more interesting question in my opinion is where the Thaig that Valta was alluding to located. Her journal i.e. The writers and game developers seemed to imply that this might be a location we'll be able to explore in future installments.
"My lost kin are hiding something. They have a Thaig somewhere."
"I have no interest in finding that citadel of the Sha-Brytol, butanother (New Protag/Inquisitor!) might."
Also here are some awesome screens that I took of the Wellspring. a couple among hundreds...
Hmm I posted something but it failed. I see now in that last pic the sky is still there, so the guardian just dims the light source. And I wonder if anyone could get down to the floor in the wellspring (aside from flying like a dragon ), and what it would be like down there.
All the plant life is pretty weird. Do they thrive on lyrium or something? I wonder if that's related to the "making the earth bloom" and the elven codices talking about big flowers and stuff.
This isn't related but does anyone know what the flag on the right represents in this image?
All the plant life is pretty weird. Do they thrive on lyrium or something? I wonder if that's related to the "making the earth bloom" and the elven codices talking about big flowers and stuff.
This isn't related but does anyone know what the flag on the right represents in this image?
Spoiler
I had a look through the heraldry page but couldn't find it. It looks to me like a dog or something qunari. Was that in the Hinterlands? Lots of odd stuff in there.
All the plant life is pretty weird. Do they thrive on lyrium or something? I wonder if that's related to the "making the earth bloom" and the elven codices talking about big flowers and stuff.
This isn't related but does anyone know what the flag on the right represents in this image?
Well that's disappointing if the statues are just culturally absorbed Tevinter-Elven.
What do you think of the nature of the Wellspring? Did it disappear at the end of Descent or did the wall just block it off? And is the "sky" endless or does it have a bottom? If there are pillars coming out of the ground there must be a bottom. Was it an illusion, because while fighting the guardian everything turns dark?
I know there's basically no information and this is purely speculative. Here, have a photo I took.
I read someone on another thread mentioned something interesting in regard to the Wellspring. It might be what the Elves refer too when they say they used to live in crystal spires in the sky. Just put more lyrium on those stalagmite/stalactites.
As for the clouds, it is just condensed vapor nothing super special. The interior of the Titan must be warm (because you know plants) while the rock is cold (because it is rock) causing the humidity in the area to condense. The warmer air goes up and the colder vapor goes down...
And that's an interesting theory azarhal. If they did live in a place like that, the codex about defeating the titans and giving the elves their land might relate.
I had a look through the heraldry page but couldn't find it. It looks to me like a dog or something qunari. Was that in the Hinterlands? Lots of odd stuff in there.
Yeah it was in the ruin where you find the first of Solas' artifacts, the one where you meet Mihris. That flag and then two different Grey Warden flags were in there. There were also a bunch of statues, some Andrastian and a couple weird ones. Plus one of those blood sacrificial marking things on the floor. Most of those I've seen in other places though, it's just that flag that I can't figure out.
Did anyone else just sit for a moment after Solas said that Mythal was the voice of reason and just marvel at how horrible the other Evanuris must have been for her to be the voice of reason? I know we found out all sorts of things from the library but if someone had run through and not read anything (why, why would you do that?) that statement alone should be enough to give anyone pause. I REALLY hope we get to see them in the next game.
I stopped trusting anything Solas said early in DAI, long before the ending. He is so narrow-minded on certain things. In fact, his "people should be more open-minded" come off as "people should share my opinions" more often then not. That's why I suspect Mythal was just as worst as the rest, she just happened to share Solas's opinions (most of the time).
I can't help but wonder if the Forbidden Ones will play a larger roles in the upcoming game? For one thing, they've been mentioned alot lately.
We find out that there elves that still worship them located somewhere in the Tirashan, which was mentioned in a codex entry and also mentioned (voiced) by Leliana that there are Elves stirring in the Tirashan
If Red Vallaslin is what distinguish them as Forbidden One worshippers then that kinda brings to mind these images. If you look closely, you can see red vallaslin-like drawing on that dragon's face + red thing surrounding their bodies. It's speculated that it might be red lyrium:
Another thing connecting the Forbidden One to the above picture is the fact that Imshael was actively "growing" and tending to red lyrium. Seems as if he was experimenting with adding lyrium into beasts such as Giants, Rhinos and was asking for Dragons.
Additionally,
The Seekers of Truth in Kirkwall secretly created the Band of Three to investigate, among other things, whether the Forgotten Ones in elven lore are connected to the Forbidden Ones in other works.[11] The note left by the last surviving member of the team calls Xebenkeck, one of the Forbidden Ones, "the Forgotten One, or demon or whatever it is" and urges to destroy him.
It might be a stretch, but I wonder if those statues of Desire Demons and what appears to be a Tevinter Knight might very well be representations of Gaxkang (Warrior) and Xebenkeck (Desire Demon Statue)since Tevinter lore credits them with teach ancient dreamers blood magic:
In either case, I do believe that the Forbidden Ones and Forgotten One's atleast work together due to both of them probably hating the Evanuris
I read someone on another thread mentioned something interesting in regard to the Wellspring. It might be what the Elves refer too when they say they used to live in crystal spires in the sky. Just put more lyrium on those stalagmite/stalactites.
As for the clouds, it is just condensed vapor nothing super special. The interior of the Titan must be warm (because you know plants) while the rock is cold (because it is rock) causing the humidity in the area to condense. The warmer air goes up and the colder vapor goes down...
The crystals might have been lyrium i.e. "so deeply blue they ache", but I highly doubt they lived inside a Titan, in fact I'm sure they aren't referring to a Titan, even a "felled" Titan. The "while other elves walk below a river churning along an invisible shoal in the air" clearly indicates a city maintained by The Fade as well as the word, in similar fashion to the Vir Dirthara.
Remember, the "Ghil-Dirthalen" said all their cities were interconnected through it via the Vir Dirthara. That it was "connection".
"One city could read the records of another, one Elvhen feel the memories of another."
I doubt they could have maintained a connection perpetuated by a cross world/Fade amalgamation inside of a Titan, if it in fact reinforces reality the way we think it does.
I can't help but wonder if the Forbidden Ones will play a larger roles in the upcoming game? For one thing, they've been mentioned alot lately.
We find out that there elves that still worship them located somewhere in the Tirashan, which was mentioned in a codex entry and also mentioned (voiced) by Leliana that there are Elves stirring in the Tirashan
If Red Vallaslin is what distinguish them as Forbidden One worshippers then that kinda brings to mind these images. If you look closely, you can see red vallaslin-like drawing on that dragon's face + red thing surrounding their bodies. It's speculated that it might be red lyrium:
Another thing connecting the Forbidden One to the above picture is the fact that Imshael was actively "growing" and tending to red lyrium. Seems as if he was experimenting with adding lyrium into beasts such as Giants, Rhinos and was asking for Dragons.
Additionally,
The Seekers of Truth in Kirkwall secretly created the Band of Three to investigate, among other things, whether the Forgotten Ones in elven lore are connected to the Forbidden Ones in other works.[11] The note left by the last surviving member of the team calls Xebenkeck, one of the Forbidden Ones, "the Forgotten One, or demon or whatever it is" and urges to destroy him.
It might be a stretch, but I wonder if those statues of Desire Demons and what appears to be a Tevinter Knight might very well be representations of Gaxkang (Warrior) and Xebenkeck (Desire Demon Statue)since Tevinter lore credits them with teach ancient dreamers blood magic:
I still don't think they are the same. What we found out in Trespasser made me even more certain. What we don't know is what the Forbidden Ones did after they were banished by the Evanuris. Perhaps some of them decided to serve The Forgotten Ones, but I am 99% sure the Forbidden Ones are not on the same level or considered part of The Forgotten Ones. The Forgotten Ones I believe to be much more insidious and powerful, there is a reason the Forbidden Ones' origins were revealed while The Forgotten Ones still remain, well, forgotten. There is a much bigger plan surrounding them, I'm sure of it.
As for the Forbidden Ones' role in future installments, well only one remains alive (unless you didn't kill Imshael in inquisition). The Formless One. Its name intrigues me as they were all bound in spirit form. Perhaps before being bound it was known to shapeshift and that's why it came to be known as the formless one. Being able to defeat the last of the Forbidden Ones however, seems likely, given we've had the opportunity to kill one in every installment so far. What role it would ultimately play is the question. No matter what the case is, I hope we get to ask it many questions.
I still don't think they are the same. What we found out in Trespasser made me even more certain. What we don't know is what the Forbidden Ones did after they were banished by the Evanuris. Perhaps some of them decided to serve The Forgotten Ones, but I am 99% sure the Forbidden Ones are not on the same level or considered part of The Forgotten Ones. The Forgotten Ones I believe to be much more insidious and powerful, there is a reason the Forbidden Ones' origins were revealed while The Forgotten Ones still remain, well, forgotten. There is a much bigger plan surrounding them, I'm sure of it.
As for the Forbidden Ones' role in future installments, well only one remains alive (unless you didn't kill Imshael in inquisition). The Formless One. Its name intrigues me as they were all bound in spirit form. Perhaps before being bound it was known to shapeshift and that's why it came to be known as the formless one. Being able to defeat the last of the Forbidden Ones however, seems likely, given we've had the opportunity to kill one in every installment so far. What role it would ultimately play is the question. No matter what the case is, I hope we get to ask it many questions.
Do we actually defeat them as in they dont exist anymore? I always thought we banish them back, but not kill them. So, if that was the case, couldnt they be summoned again?
Do we actually defeat them as in they dont exist anymore? I always thought we banish them back, but not kill them. So, if that was the case, couldnt they be summoned again?
They get returned to the Fade after being defeated like every spirits and demons we meet. Although, they could just be wisp now and forget themselves to become something else, but going by Mythal's warning I get the feeling they don't that's why bounding them was the only solution.
They get returned to the Fade after being defeated like every spirits and demons we meet. Although, they could just be wisp now and forget themselves to become something else, but going by Mythal's warning I get the feeling they don't that's why bounding them was the only solution.
Ok, i'm getting confused, maybe im missing info here. They were bound back then, yes, but their appearance is very recent (from DA:O till DA:I). So bounding them could mean they cannot emerge/materialise/possess s'one on their own will? Because it seems they can be summoned still as Imshael was in TME. And if they were once summoned, i gather it can happen again
Ok, i'm getting confused, maybe im missing info here. They were bound back then, yes, but their appearance is very recent (from DA:O till DA:I). So bounding them could mean they cannot emerge/materialise/possess s'one on their own will? Because it seems they can be summoned still as Imshael was in TME. And if they were once summoned, i gather it can happen again
Xebenkeck might have been bound to the Fell Grimoire or Hawke summoned the demon. It doesn't show up until Hawke read/destroy the Fell Grimoire in DA2 in any cases. Imshael was summoned then bound in a magical circle by his summoner. Gaxkang was unbound and walked around freely for centuries killing adventures that fell into his trap until the Warden came along to send him back to the Fade (that's what the last quest update says about him).
While destroying the spirit in the physical world return them to the Fade, they will be severely weakened and Solas mention in his personal quest that a spirit might not return as it was from that process. That's probably much more tied to the spirit changeable nature than anything else though.
It seems the Forbidden Ones and Forgotten Ones were both of the elven people .And they didn't get along with the Creators.
Main difference is the Forbidden Ones were like what...4, 5?And were easily judged and bound.
Now the Forgotten Ones , we don't have much informations.
But there is some.
Geldauran was probably an elf , challenging the truth of the Evanuris "Godhood" , and was busy looking for powa...his lair (or at least some place he visited) hold the kind of power and the same door /shards as the Solasan temple.
The Solasan temple is supposed to be elven in origin , but no statues of any gods and it didn't look like your ancient elves temples.Also sarcophagus.So elves in uthenera or dead elves?Don't know .But they mess up with something pushed by "pride".(aka Solas ...in elven language)
There's a tale of a forgotten One and Andruil fighting and Fen Harel use them both and feed their mutual hatred to get freed , I think Andruil had him in rope and wanted to er...have fun with him?
I don't remember the details but it's told by Felassan , agent of Fen Harel.
There's the Dalish tales of the gods getting trolled and jailed forever by Fen harel.
Now we know for sure part of the story is true.
Fen Harel did walk among the Evanuris , at least Mythal .The others didn't trust him , it seems.But we don't know if they went full propaganda against him before or after Mythal murder.
We know he did seal the Evanuris.
Now what we don't know is :Was he related to the Forgotten Ones ?
My little finger tells me :Oh yeah he was.He used them againt the Evanuris.
First the Forgotten Ones and Fen Harel had a thing in common, they didn't buy that whole "Godhood " thing.
Second :
Solas: Once you have the aristocracy weakened, Sera, you will have to redirect your lieutenants.
Sera: Oh, this again. All right, what am I doing?
Solas: Some of your forces, valuable until now, have no interests beyond creating disruption. Chaos for its own sake. They must be repositioned where they can do no harm, or removed if necessary. You replace them with organizers willing to build a new system and carry out the ugly work that must be done.
Sera: What? Why? What ugly work?
Solas: That is up to you. Do you wish to disrupt the nobility, secure a title? Or change the political structure entirely?
Sera: None of it! I don't want any of that!
So I assume this is what happened Solas did use the Forgotten Ones against the Evanuris , and once their job was done , he got rid of them somehow.
Why not talk about it?Well perhaps he is ashamed , moving against the Evanuris to save slaves from tyrants is one thing ...creating the veil and implying he didn't knew things would be so bad , sure.
Now saying openly he used people to fight the Evanuris and then kill them or threw them in the toilet and flush...well it sounds a bit bad.
Edit :
Spoiler
Faintly carved into the stone is a figure bound in chains. Two other figures have turned their gaze from the central image.
The script below the image is ancient, though Solas is able to provide a partial translation:
Pride in our accomplishments and in our hearts. That same pride became (a word meaning corrupted or altered) within him, he sought to claim (indecipherable), cast from favor and so he was bound.
Hidden from mortal eyes, death lies within.
From Solasan temple , a figure bound in chains?We saw one in Fen Harel mosaic from Trespasser.
It seems the Forbidden Ones and Forgotten Ones were both of the elven people .And they didn't get along with the Creators.
Main difference is the Forbidden Ones were like what...4, 5?And were easily judged and bound.
Now the Forgotten Ones , we don't have much informations.
But there is some.
Geldauran was probably an elf , challenging the truth of the Evanuris "Godhood" , and was busy looking for powa...his lair (or at least some place he visited) hold the kind of power and the same door /shards as the Solasan temple.
The Solasan temple is supposed to be elven in origin , but no statues of any gods and it didn't look like your ancient elves temples.Also sarcophagus.So elves in uthenera or dead elves?Don't know .But they mess up with something pushed by "pride".(aka Solas ...in elven language)
There's a tale of a forgotten One and Andruil fighting and Fen Harel use them both and feed their mutual hatred to get freed , I think Andruil had him in rope and wanted to er...have fun with him?
I don't remember the details but it's told by Felassan , agent of Fen Harel.
There's the Dalish tales of the gods getting trolled and jailed forever by Fen harel.
Now we know for sure part of the story is true.
Fen Harel did walk among the Evanuris , at least Mythal .The others didn't trust him , it seems.But we don't know if they went full propaganda against him before or after Mythal murder.
We know he did seal the Evanuris.
Now what we don't know is :Was he related to the Forgotten Ones ?
My little finger tells me :Oh yeah he was.He used them againt the Evanuris.
First the Forgotten Ones and Fen Harel had a thing in common, they didn't buy that whole "Godhood " thing.
Second :
Solas: Once you have the aristocracy weakened, Sera, you will have to redirect your lieutenants.
Sera: Oh, this again. All right, what am I doing?
Solas: Some of your forces, valuable until now, have no interests beyond creating disruption. Chaos for its own sake. They must be repositioned where they can do no harm, or removed if necessary. You replace them with organizers willing to build a new system and carry out the ugly work that must be done.
Sera: What? Why? What ugly work?
Solas: That is up to you. Do you wish to disrupt the nobility, secure a title? Or change the political structure entirely?
Sera: None of it! I don't want any of that!
So I assume this is what happened Solas did use the Forgotten Ones against the Evanuris , and once their job was done , he got rid of them somehow.
Why not talk about it?Well perhaps he is ashamed , moving against the Evanuris to save slaves from tyrants is one thing ...creating the veil and implying he didn't knew things would be so bad , sure.
Now saying openly he used people to fight the Evanuris and then kill them or threw them in the toilet and flush...well it sounds a bit bad.
Edit :
Spoiler
Faintly carved into the stone is a figure bound in chains. Two other figures have turned their gaze from the central image.
The script below the image is ancient, though Solas is able to provide a partial translation:
Pride in our accomplishments and in our hearts. That same pride became (a word meaning corrupted or altered) within him, he sought to claim (indecipherable), cast from favor and so he was bound.
Hidden from mortal eyes, death lies within.
From Solasan temple , a figure bound in chains?We saw one in Fen Harel mosaic from Trespasser.
I read someone on another thread mentioned something interesting in regard to the Wellspring. It might be what the Elves refer too when they say they used to live in crystal spires in the sky. Just put more lyrium on those stalagmite/stalactites.
As for the clouds, it is just condensed vapor nothing super special. The interior of the Titan must be warm (because you know plants) while the rock is cold (because it is rock) causing the humidity in the area to condense. The warmer air goes up and the colder vapor goes down...
I think the "Crystal Spires" are what the floating rocks we see - either in the Fade (which is more like part of the same world being separated in two by a curtain, hence the name: "Veil") or when Corypheus used the orb to raise up the Temple. It's pretty relevant that he used an elven orb of immense power to raise a floating city that - apart from the colour tones - looks exactly like the physical Fade.
Retour en haut
), and what it would be like down there.
.
