781 réponses à ce sujet

[FrankWisdom]

Whops sorry, didn't mean to confuse. I was saying the "un-whole" was a more comfortable translation than "I am empty, filled with nothing". I didn't mean to imply that's what the well said, sorry!

 

About the translation it says: Ir sa tel'nal.

 

Ir = I am,

sa = one

tel'nal = tel is a negator when used after a verb or noun (in this case sa). Banal means nothing.

 

So it's literally "I am the opposite of one" or "I am not one", hence my conclusion to simplify it from oneness to unwhole.

 

Ok, no problem that was my bad as well. If that is the case then it seems even more likely that a Dwarf is what's being described.

 

It's noted though that the Elvhen "language" is based off an English cipher and has no "definitive" translations. This fan explains it quite well if your interested. Though reading your post you might have already rummaged through his project elvhen site. Let me know if that's the case

 

http://fenxshiral.tu...m/projectelvhen

 

 

Oh and I'm still waiting on that WoT:2 pg. #

 

"there's a song in WoT:2 called "Mir Da'len somniar" that's about dreaming and following a voice."

[Reznore57]

 

 

Oh and I'm still waiting on that WoT:2 pg. #

 

"there's a song in WoT:2 called "Mir Da'len somniar" that's about dreaming and following a voice."

 Page 217 , children tale.

It sounds more like your random lullaby to me , but who knows?(oh crap I saw the word "Sun" it's late and I'm not falling into that rabbit hole)

[FernRain]

Gah I'm failing today! I came back to post the image because I couldn't find the page number (I don't have WoT but I saw it on the wiki). Thanks Reznore for providing the page. Here's a picture of it (wow, the art in that book is beautiful):

 

.

 

And yeah I've been to that site before .

[FrankWisdom]

 Page 217 , children tale.

It sounds more like your random lullaby to me , but who knows?(oh crap I saw the word "Sun" it's late and I'm not falling into that rabbit hole)

Thanks rez, and I get the same reaction when I see the word "Forgotten" so I feel your pain

[FrankWisdom]

Gah I'm failing today! I came back to post the image because I couldn't find the page number (I don't have WoT but I saw it on the wiki). Thanks Reznore for providing the page. Here's a picture of it (wow, the art in that book is beautiful):

 

.

 

And yeah I've been to that site before .

 

 

"And yeah I've been to that site before."

 

Lol, thought so

 

 

and even if Rez provided the page number, thanks for taking the time to post the pic anyways

[Fisva]

I don't think so. It seems to be inherent to spirits i.e. They are never truly "killed". They reform as "new beings" from wisps of what they were.
 
The Avvar runes etched by the Augur in the Frostback basin detail this well. It is also explained in less detail through the wisp codex. The fact that Flemeth specifically uses the term "wisp" to describe Mythal when she came to her seems to imply that she survived in the same fashion as spirits do when they are "killed" and sent back to the Fade post-veil. We also have no clue how this worked pre-veil, especially when talking about beings as powerful as The Evanuris or Elvhen people in general, who are essentially spirits who can learn and adapt, much like Cole if you make him more human. 
 
Also dragons are inherently resistant to the blight, which I believe indicates they either had to fight it off before and developed a physiological resistance to it or the blight is directly of an opposite nature. Either way the "taint" is unnatural and I believe it to be a "soul" sickness, attacking and corrupting the spirit. I believe it became a physical "blight" once the Magisters breached the Golden City "physically" and then "fell" back to Thedas, carrying the taint as "hosts" would a "parasite".
 
If the "taint" was first a "spiritual" sickness, then perhaps its propensity to keep its host's "spirit" alive after a physical body is destroyed stems from that fact. the taint itself might even enhance that part of a spirit's nature, which is why only powerful beings have that capacity (such as Corypheus and Archdemons, both beings who have exceptionally powerful "spirits" or "souls" for lack of a better term).

Right! I came back once again to your first post and read it carefully. My thoughts are close to yours, but I would still stick to some of my concepts.
I blab too much on this forum. So many questions, so many leads, and no logical conclusion, haha!

[FrankWisdom]

Right! I came back once again to your first post and read it carefully. My thoughts are close to yours, but I would still stick to some of my concepts.
I blab too much on this forum. So many questions, so many leads, and no logical conclusion, haha!

We all blab, it's a theorist's quirk, don't be too hard on yourself. There doesn't have to be any "logical conclusion" as long as the questions we ask make us think and search for answers

 

Anyways thanks for sharing your thoughts, that's what we need to generate interesting discussions!

[FernRain]

Frank:

 

I saw something you posted about the blight and faith (I think.. I've been reading a lot since), and it got me thinking. If faith is resistant to the blight, would that mean the reason the magisters contracted it in the first place was because their faith was basically destroyed? I read that a spirit of faith can turn into a pride demon, pride which lead the magisters to the city and made them vulnerable to the blight in the first place. They couldn't see the city as golden because they were already compromised, like those that summon spirits will see what they think will appear.

 

And now reading over what I wrote looks weird.. Logic, someone? Please .

[FrankWisdom]

Frank:

 

I saw something you posted about the blight and faith (I think.. I've been reading a lot since), and it got me thinking. If faith is resistant to the blight, would that mean the reason the magisters contracted it in the first place was because their faith was basically destroyed? I read that a spirit of faith can turn into a pride demon, pride which lead the magisters to the city and made them vulnerable to the blight in the first place. They couldn't see the city as golden because they were already compromised, like those that summon spirits will see what they think will appear.

 

And now reading over what I wrote looks weird.. Logic, someone? Please .

 

Well my reasoning for "Faith" being a "shield" against the blight is because of my belief that the blight or "taint" targets your "spirit" or "soul". Therefore your "will" is what helps you resist its effects. Your "will" is determined by what drives you, i.e. things such as "faith" and "hope", both recurring themes in Dragon Age as well as qualities found in people we saw who are resistant. However I think it's much more complicated then the way I'm explaining it. If "will" is what dictated change during the pre-veil era then I'm guessing it's what would've determined your strength i.e. The Evanuris and Forgotten Ones...

 

"Those with will to earn dominance over others gain title not by nature but by deed".

 

Pride and greed is what corrupts, what claimed the Evanuris, what claimed the Magisters etc. I think pride and greed are the root cause, what led to the events that created or unleashed the blight, during both the pre-veil era when the Evanuris or Forgotten Ones (or both) either unleashed or created the "blight" and again post-veil when the Magisters breached the Golden City. Both were consequences of Pride and greed. The Magisters were tempted by the whispers who manipulated them through their pride and greed while the Evanuris in their greed (and sense of entitlement, i.e. "the earth that is our right") unleashed or created something during the Titan "excavations" (to put it mildly). The chant of light also seems to heavily imply this about "spirits" who became jealous of "mortals". Both the Evanuris and "Spirits turned Demons" i.e. Old Gods are described as entitled, vain, petty, jealous etc. especially in regards to the "unchanging world" and those who inhabit it.

 

What I want to emphasize however, is that when I'm talking about Leliana's faith or the spirit of Faith that grants a seeker's power, I'm also speaking of the magical aspect, not just Faith as we know it (meaning not just faith i.e. belief). There are a lot of factors we aren't aware of yet, but I'm sure that these themes play a major role in relation to the blight.

 

Loss of faith, the Evanuris, the Maker, it's all lead by doubt vs. faith, destiny vs free will, hope vs. despair, Wisdom vs. Pride, Greed vs. Compassion, Justice vs. Vengeance etc. These aren't just literary themes that help craft a great narrative, they are actual plot devices because of how the writers employ them. Which is what I think makes the Dragon Age universe so original and interesting. Much like The Fade and the "unchanging world" they turn the abstract into concrete and vice versa, which makes for so many opportunities that they actually are hitting out of the park i.e. no "missed" opportunities with the world they've crafted and the lore they are slowly weaving together. personal demons actually being "material" things, dreams, the "unconscious" and "subconscious" actually being aspects of another "world" because of the "veil". All of the lore that explains these things is so very layered and complex (once you invest time in exploring it). People who complain about this world being filled with "generic" fantasy tropes etc. I think aren't looking deep enough. There is so much more to what they've created than "another Tolkien clone".

 

Anyways I won't drag on with my personal feelings about the world, but I hope that made my reasoning clear and hopefully it makes sense to you

[FernRain]

Yeah it did. I got on this tangent after reading the thread about whether the cleansing runes are canon. They use three types of hearts: corpse, arcane horror and revenant.

 

I know the dragon runes use wyvern stuff which makes sense since that's a dragon's weakness. Demon-slaying runes use dragon's blood so demons are diminished by dragons supposedly. Then the blight is weak to.. hearts? Eh? Unless they're going for something metaphoric, which I doubt. What's special about a heart that would weaken the darkspawn? ..

[Elista]

Didn't Merrill use blood magic to remove the taint from the eluvian in DA2 ? I'm not sure... but maybe it would be a connection with the heart having some cleansing power.

[FrankWisdom]

Yeah it did. I got on this tangent after reading the thread about whether the cleansing runes are canon. They use three types of hearts: corpse, arcane horror and revenant.

 

I know the dragon runes use wyvern stuff which makes sense since that's a dragon's weakness. Demon-slaying runes use dragon's blood so demons are diminished by dragons supposedly. Then the blight is weak to.. hearts? Eh? Unless they're going for something metaphoric, which I doubt. What's special about a heart that would weaken the darkspawn? ..

 

Well metaphorically speaking when we talk about someone having heart it represents the following for instance:

 

3.

the center of the total personality, especially with reference to intuition, feeling, or emotion:

In your heart you know I'm an honest man.

 

4.

the center of emotion, especially as contrasted to the head as the center of the intellect:

His head told him not to fall in love, but his heart had the final say.

 

5.

capacity for sympathy; feeling; affection:

His heart moved him to help the needy.

6.

spirit, courage, or enthusiasm:

His heart sank when he walked into the room and saw their gloomy faces.

 

Pretty much contrasting pride, greed, hopelessness etc.

 

But you also have to consider hearts of what.

 

Things that have become corrupt.

 

Revenants, Arcane Horrors and corpses. All twisted beings.

 

If spirits are said to "become" demons when their original purpose is "denied"

 

"A demon is an oft-malicious spirit from the Fade that embodies a sin or negative emotion and that feeds on the darker parts of the mortal psyche like rage, hunger, and desire. According to Solas, a spirit becomes a demon when denied its original purpose. This denial occurs when a spirit is forced to do something that greatly conflicts with its original nature, or it may occur as a spirit explores mortal minds and dreams and encounters negative thoughts and memories. A demon's strength and intelligence is dependent on the emotions or idea from which it feeds; the more complex the concept, the more powerful the demon."

 

"Ultimately, a demon is simply a spirit whose purpose has been perverted. Pulling a spirit unwillingly into the mortal world, particularly to achieve a goal out of keeping with its nature, will change a spirit into a demon (however, a spirit passing willingly through the Veil will not be changed^[3]). Furthermore, an individual anticipating seeing a demon will do so, even if the entity is in fact a spirit.

 

If you take all of this into consideration then you can understand why a "cleansing" rune would need something corrupted  as an ingredient, something which represents what is being corrupted i.e. The heart, which is the "metaphorical" center of emotion, that which has been "corrupted".

 

Think of it as a vaccine being applied to fight off and protect against disease. The injection contains some of that disease in the same way that all the runes contain a part of what they are meant to destroy or in this case "purify" i.e. "cleanse".

 

The taint I always surmised as being unnatural and it has been described as such in-game. It is "corruption" in its purest form, which like I stated in the post above, is what I think lead to its creation and/or what released it.

 

That's what I see in terms of the relevance and the connection about the "heart". Does that help?  

[azarhal]

About Faith's power, the Fade is shaped by beliefs (memories are things people believe happened). Faith main characteristic is to believe unconditionally in something. The Fade and Faith goes hand and hand.

 

Also, with Wynne's spirit, the Seekers and the Faith spirit in Here lies the Abyss, I have the feeling that the Spirits of Faith have been nudging things.

 

As for the Blight, the Fade and Faith, you can ask Cole about Templars. The answer didn't make that must sense without the Descent though.

 

On the normal Templars, he says that they hear an old song and that they are trying to reach something old and larger than themselves like Varric. They are trying to reach to the Titans like the Dwarves. Cole also says this is how they negate magic (makes you wonder how Cassandra does it without Lyrium).

 

About the Red Templars, he says that they hear a different song, a song behind the old door whispers want opened. It seems to tie with: The Whispers in Red Lyrium and sound similar to the stories of the Magisters listening to the whispers of the Old Gods to breach the Golden City (aka force open its doors).

[jthibeault]

I was reading through Varric's lines/conversations because he tends to foreshadow things like Cole does and look what I found. I remember this exchange but I hadn't remembered the important part.

More back up for your theory of balance between Titans/Fade
 

• Varric: So here we are, elf, cleaning up another human mess.
• Solas: What would the Inquisition do without our stabilizing influence, Master Tethras?
• Varric: I assume they'd just start burning things.
• Solas: That does sound like most humans I know.
• Cassandra (if in party): If you gentlemen are quite finished?
• Varric: Now, now, don't get touchy. We're just here to lend you simple humans our help.
• Solas: Before you cause everything to explode.
• Varric: Again.
   

Pretty much every word from Cole and Varric is suspicious to me now

**Ok to be fair it was Solas who said it but that just makes it seem even more relevant.

[FrankWisdom]

I was reading through Varric's lines/conversations because he tends to foreshadow things like Cole does and look what I found. I remember this exchange but I hadn't remembered the important part.

More back up for your theory of balance between Titans/Fade
 

• Varric: So here we are, elf, cleaning up another human mess.
• Solas: What would the Inquisition do without our stabilizing influence, Master Tethras?
• Varric: I assume they'd just start burning things.
• Solas: That does sound like most humans I know.
• Cassandra (if in party): If you gentlemen are quite finished?
• Varric: Now, now, don't get touchy. We're just here to lend you simple humans our help.
• Solas: Before you cause everything to explode.
• Varric: Again.
   

Pretty much every word from Cole and Varric is suspicious to me now

**Ok to be fair it was Solas who said it but that just makes it seem even more relevant.

 

Lol I can't say it reinforces my theories or gives them any more credibility, but it is an interesting discussion, especially if you want to look at it in a wink-wink from the writers sort of way

 

Honestly I'm more impressed with your enthusiasm than the conversation, so I'm glad you and other people have gravitated to this thread! You guys are a breath of fresh air when we're drowning in our own thought processes. It helps put things in perspective when theory crafting. Anyways I've had less time to play so I have less things to bring forth for the time being, though I am finding myself looping the trespasser soundtrack while writing so there's that...

 

Anyways let's hope someone else brings up something new for me to dissect, I'm craving a new puzzle, or at least a puzzle piece to try and fit in somewhere   

[jthibeault]

Oh man that soundtrack. I had the Solas scene music stuck in my head for daaayys after my first run through.

Also, speaking of new stuff to dissect ... I'm not familiar with how Bioware usually opperates with this kind of thing but umm ... when should we be looking forward to any kind of announcement that they are in fact going to start the next DA game? My husband said they announced that they had started ME: Andromeda a month after ME:3 was released. I've been a DA fan from the beginning but I didn't pay attention to developement stuff. I know we're looking at years until the next game could be released but I just want ... something to tell me that the wait has even started.

[Reznore57]

Oh man that soundtrack. I had the Solas scene music stuck in my head for daaayys after my first run through.

Also, speaking of new stuff to dissect ... I'm not familiar with how Bioware usually opperates with this kind of thing but umm ... when should we be looking forward to any kind of announcement that they are in fact going to start the next DA game? My husband said they announced that they had started ME: Andromeda a month after ME:3 was released. I've been a DA fan from the beginning but I didn't pay attention to developement stuff. I know we're looking at years until the next game could be released but I just want ... something to tell me that the wait has even started.

 

Long time to wait , at the very least one year ...they were working for quite some time on DAI when we got the official news, and truth is their hand was forced , we found a survey about DAI (with almost all companions...) , the ME3 scandal was still fresh , and the doctors (those who created Bioware) were leaving.

DA4 is not even greenlit by EA right now , so ...yeah.

 

In the meantime there's the magekillers comic on the horizon .We'll probably get a novel at one point too ...but probably no big lore revelations like DAI/Trespasser/Descent etc for a while .

[FrankWisdom]

Oh man that soundtrack. I had the Solas scene music stuck in my head for daaayys after my first run through.

Also, speaking of new stuff to dissect ... I'm not familiar with how Bioware usually opperates with this kind of thing but umm ... when should we be looking forward to any kind of announcement that they are in fact going to start the next DA game? My husband said they announced that they had started ME: Andromeda a month after ME:3 was released. I've been a DA fan from the beginning but I didn't pay attention to developement stuff. I know we're looking at years until the next game could be released but I just want ... something to tell me that the wait has even started.

Mass Effect was a different beast than Dragon Age.

 

putting aside the controversy surrounding the Mass Effect 3 ending, the series consistently hit it out of the park. A lot of rpg fans complained about Mass Effect 2's drastic gameplay changes (from rpg shooter to action "rpg" shooter) but they did listen to the fans and brought enough changes to Mass effect 3 that satisfied both player bases (causal and hardcore). Mass Effect 3 also brought over a successful multiplayer mode.

 

Dragon Age however, was a more obscure title. not only due to the setting but also the gameplay. Origins was a tried and true rpg influenced by tactical pause games like Baldur's Gate and Kotor, for example. What appealed to a broader audience in the Mass effect franchise was the fact that it was an rpg shooter in a sci-fi setting.

 

Anyways, Dragon Age: Origins still got critical acclaim and built a steady fanbase. However, much like the changes made within Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age's gameplay and art style was modified and simplified to appeal to a broader customer base, i.e. casual and console players. A lot of fans took it like a slap in the face, most of which were in fact rpg enthusiasts. Add in lazy modelling and repetitive locations and the fledgling series took a major hit.

 

Now they once again completely revamped the gameplay, this time using an all new engine and a completely different format, open world.

 

This again brings forth haters and lovers alike, but the sheer effort put into correcting past mistakes shone like a beacon. Even if people complain this felt like an MMO (I never felt like it did, though the fetch quests are something that needs to change in the next iteration) overall it was a vast improvement. It received critical acclaim and financial success despite naysayers.

 

Now all this to say that you can't compare a Mass Effect release with Dragon Age.

 

With that said though, even if it wasn't announced, the minute the numbers came in dragon age 4 was greenl-lit, of that I have no doubt. The critical acclaim just made it a sure thing, the "icing" on the cake, if you will. I'm sure that, once they finish their narrative structure for DA:4 and feel they have enough cream filling, they'll poke a needle in and let us have a whiff, and, eventually a taste (trailer).

 

Remember that there is also a new IP being worked on, so they might not want to overshadow that with an announcement from an established franchise.

 

They might wait until they've announced the new IP for marketing reasons until they get around to announcing DA:4. It depends on which will come first i.e. which one will be ready for development first.

[jthibeault]

Interesting, thanks! To clairify, I definitely know that we'll be waiting years for anything major like a trailer or hints of plots or anything but it was that greenlit bit that I wasn't sure about. It would just be nice to hear at some point that "Yes we're going to start working on the outline for DA4 expect something someday." Lots of people  seem pretty confident that there will be another game though so I'm just going to trust them on that lol

[FrankWisdom]

Interesting, thanks! To clairify, I definitely know that we'll be waiting years for anything major like a trailer or hints of plots or anything but it was that greenlit bit that I wasn't sure about. It would just be nice to hear at some point that "Yes we're going to start working on the outline for DA4 expect something someday." Lots of people  seem pretty confident that there will be another game though so I'm just going to trust them on that lolk

Greed is good... when you want something. If there is money to be made, it will be made... So don't worry about it, 'cause there is mooonnneyyyy (said in a Pink Floyd style), to be made.

[FernRain]

Didn't Merrill use blood magic to remove the taint from the eluvian in DA2 ? I'm not sure... but maybe it would be a connection with the heart having some cleansing power.

 

Did she? That's interesting..

 

 Does that help?  

 

Sure! Does this tie in with the wardens ability to slow the taint for a while? Isn't that what happens to Hawke's sibling in the Deep Roads with Anders? It's been years since I've played it.

[FernRain]

The ardent blossom quest has this random dialogue, look at the last one especially:

 

• Deviating from the plan. No accounting for whimsy. Small differences lead to fatal consequences. I'm sorry.
• He'll remake the world to suit his desires. His chosen to reign.
• Bring faith. Bring hope. Bring a dream of life.
• Pulling back the curtain. Let the light in. Let it burn.

 

I'm assuming the pixie is talking about Solas and not Corypheus. What caught my attention was the light/burning in reference to the veil (curtain) being removed. Solas said while this world "burns" in the chaos. And the order of fiery promise want to remove the veil to cleanse the world with fire.

 

I think the fire/light from the fade has something to do with the sun that we see in one of the murals.

[azarhal]

The ardent blossom quest has this random dialogue, look at the last one especially:

 

• Deviating from the plan. No accounting for whimsy. Small differences lead to fatal consequences. I'm sorry.
• He'll remake the world to suit his desires. His chosen to reign.
• Bring faith. Bring hope. Bring a dream of life.
• Pulling back the curtain. Let the light in. Let it burn.

 

I'm assuming the pixie is talking about Solas and not Corypheus. What caught my attention was the light/burning in reference to the veil (curtain) being removed. Solas said while this world "burns" in the chaos. And the order of fiery promise want to remove the veil to cleanse the world with fire.

 

I think the fire/light from the fade has something to do with the sun that we see in one of the murals.

 

I find the second line much more interesting: "Bring faith. Bring hope. Bring a dream of life."  The ardent blossom are plant kept alive via lyrium. 

 

I'm starting to think there is a link between Faith, lyrium and life. That would explain why Cassandra can set it aflame in people's blood.

[FernRain]

True. Dream of life = lyrium's song?

 

I was just yearning to learn what the sun really is .

[FrankWisdom]

The ardent blossom quest has this random dialogue, look at the last one especially:

 

• Deviating from the plan. No accounting for whimsy. Small differences lead to fatal consequences. I'm sorry.
• He'll remake the world to suit his desires. His chosen to reign.
• Bring faith. Bring hope. Bring a dream of life.
• Pulling back the curtain. Let the light in. Let it burn.

 

I'm assuming the pixie is talking about Solas and not Corypheus. What caught my attention was the light/burning in reference to the veil (curtain) being removed. Solas said while this world "burns" in the chaos. And the order of fiery promise want to remove the veil to cleanse the world with fire.

 

I think the fire/light from the fade has something to do with the sun that we see in one of the murals.

 

 

That's really interesting. I just looked up the Ardent Blossom quest. Didn't even know that was a thing... and I consider myself a completionist in this game. Thanks for the info.

 

Also yeah it is definitely referring to Solas.

 

Deviating from the plan. No accounting for whimsy. Small differences lead to fatal consequences. I'm sorry.

 

When Corypheus survived the conclave explosion, which put Solas' plans in disarray

 

He'll remake the world to suit his desires. His chosen to reign.

 

it's interesting here, remember the conversation we have with Solas about Wisdom and Purpose spirits? He says they all too easily can be twisted into Pride and Desire. Now the pixie says Solas=Pride will remake the world to suit his desires, has his purpose also been twisted, perhaps blinded by his pride. Aside from willingly destroying the world of course . His chosen are most likely the Ancient Elvhen People, though perhaps he can or will choose others.

 

Bring faith. Bring hope. Bring a dream of life.

 

This one is the most interesting to me. It kind of implies that Faith and Hope are what make up "life" i.e. powerful emotions that reinforce your will in the The Fade (the dream). They way I see it, that also reinforces my theory about Faith, Hope and blight resistance. If the blight=death, then it would make sense that what represents the opposite help nullify it or at least resist it i.e. Faith and hope=Life. As for this quote being applied to Solas, well it says it all. We will need to be ready to fight him, armed with a strong will. "Bring a dream of life" might be metaphorical in terms of trying to redeem him or it might literally mean we'll need to fight him in The Fade, armed "with a dream of life". Could be both as well.

 

Pulling back the curtain. Let the light in. Let it burn.

 

Also straightforward. The veil will be destroyed, The Fade will seep in. Raw chaos will reshape the world.

 

 

"I think the fire/light from the fade has something to do with the sun that we see in one of the murals."

 

As for the light, I'm not sure it has anything to do with what was depicted in the murals. I think it's simply a reference to The Fade. Just remember the breach an how it was described, as a huge hole of light in the sky . Also spirits were said (in JOH) to see us as a shining beacon of light from The Fade (because of our Mark).

 

Anyways thanks for sharing, that's a new one, I'll check the quest out in my unfinished character's games.