781 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

Ummm.... they totally got played and corrupted as an organization by Corypheus. So... how come are they an exception?

Besides - 'staying true to one's goals' doesn't mean the ways they want to stay true to one's goals aren't either mad or idiotic. They've tried to dig in to uncorrupted Archdemon after all - and the ancient warded logbook found in Western Approach suggests that it wasn't the first time. What's more, Stroud tells us in Skyhold that if it wasn't for suspicion of Corypheus ' manipulation, he may have actually went with Clarel's plan if she suggested it on her own.

 

Being mindcontrolled and manipulated is a very different type of corruption than the type Solas talks about in regards to organizations. Solas talks about the type of political corruption that entails taking an organization and perverting it for the personal benefit of (a select few) of it's members, not the mental corruption that comes from a demon invading their minds and making them think they're all imminently doomed.

 

Also, without Solas saying otherwise, would we have any legitimate reason to believe that the plan wasn't a great idea? Cutting the head off the snake and preempting destruction should be plan A, not being a reactionary force that only takes action once the world is already going to sh*t. Solas apparently knows something the rest of us don't, but absent that knowledge, taking out the archdemons while they're still sleeping is a fairly sound idea, complicated only by the logistics of getting down there. 

[midnight tea]

Being mindcontrolled and manipulated is a very different type of corruption than the type Solas talks about in regards to organizations. Solas talks about the type of political corruption that entails taking an organization and perverting it for the personal benefit of (a select few) of it's members, not the mental corruption that comes from a demon invading their minds and making them think they're all imminently doomed.

 

Er... no, not at all. I mean - have you played Trespasser? He addresses this point directly and explains that by "corruption" he also means something like infiltration.

 

Also - no matter what we do with Wardens, it's implied at the end of DAI that there's a terrible internal strife. The Leaders or at least a portion of surviving Wardens definitely disagree what direction Order should take now, and we don't really know their motivations.

 

Also, without Solas saying otherwise, would we have any legitimate reason to believe that the plan wasn't a great idea?

 

Actually, no. Every other companion you ask before moving to Adamant thinks that this is a terrible idea - even Blackwall, the big Gray Warden fanboy.

 

And why wouldn't they think that way? Ask yourself what would happen to all these Darkspawn if most of them weren't lured down into Deep Roads and digging if it wasn't for Old Gods song? Who will they turn on next? The only reason they're underground is because of their compulsion to dig to the next Archdemon. Ironically, they keep Thedas above safe, at least up until the next Blight.

 

Then there's the question of what itself is Old God/Archdemon? There's no telling what would happen if Wardens dug to it - they're also Blight carriers like darkspawn, so the likeliness of them corrupting it into another Archdemon (like Architect did to Uthremiel) is still pretty high.

[Former_Fiend]

Er... no, not at all. I mean - have you played Trespasser? He addresses this point directly and explains that by "corruption" he also means something like infiltration.

 

Also - no matter what we do with Wardens, it's implied at the end of DAI that there's a terrible internal strife. The Leaders or at least a portion of surviving Wardens definitely disagree what direction Order should take now, and we don't really know their motivations.

 

 

Actually, no. Every other companion you ask before moving to Adamant thinks that this is a terrible idea - even Blackwall, the big Gray Warden fanboy.

 

And why wouldn't they think that way? Ask yourself what would happen to all these Darkspawn if most of them weren't lured down into Deep Roads and digging if it wasn't for Old Gods song? Who will they turn on next? The only reason they're underground is because of their compulsion to dig to the next Archdemon. Ironically, they keep Thedas above safe, at least up until the next Blight.

 

Then there's the question of what itself is Old God/Archdemon? There's no telling what would happen if Wardens dug to it - they're also Blight carriers like darkspawn, so the likeliness of them corrupting it into another Archdemon (like Architect did to Uthremiel) is still pretty high.

 

I haven't, actually, and I'm not likely to any time soon given that it won't be released on PS3. But I've watched several playthroughs. And that is still different.

 

As for the other companions, their disapproval is entirely based on the means; demons. Solas is actually the only one ok with that aspect of it. 

 

And you know what, that potential plot line of "mindless army going on an unstoppable rampage once the center of the hive mind is taken out" was ****** stupid when Blizzard used it to cap off the Wrath of the Lich King expansion of WoW, and it will be ****** stupid if BioWare uses it in Dragon Age, for one simple reason; a mindless army of bloodthirsty murder machines with no direction is easier to deal with than an army of bloodthirsty murder machines following a thinking, willful leader. The darkspawn, without the distraction of an archdemon, first off would almost certainly turn on each other as they have been documented in doing several times, and if they ever got around to swelling up and turning on the surface, dealing with them without an archdemon to lead them should be significantly easier than dealing with a blight.

 

Also, I hate that plotline for another reason; on a meta level, the message that storyline sends is "don't be proactive, don't try and solve problems before they happen. Just sit back and take it and endure the hardship, because you can't possibly avoid it and you'll only make it worse if you try." And that is a bullshit message. 

 

So, yeah, if that turns out to be the case, then I would call that bad writing on the part of Bioware and drop the series like a sack of bricks.

[midnight tea]

I haven't, actually, and I'm not likely to any time soon given that it won't be released on PS3. But I've watched several playthroughs. And that is still different.

 

As for the other companions, their disapproval is entirely based on the means; demons. Solas is actually the only one ok with that aspect of it. 

 

... In what way he's OK in that aspect? He just think releasing the Archdemon is even more insane.

 

 

And you know what, that potential plot line of "mindless army going on an unstoppable rampage once the center of the hive mind is taken out" was ****** stupid when Blizzard used it to cap off the Wrath of the Lich King expansion of WoW, and it will be ****** stupid if BioWare uses it in Dragon Age, for one simple reason; a mindless army of bloodthirsty murder machines with no direction is easier to deal with than an army of bloodthirsty murder machines following a thinking, willful leader. The darkspawn, without the distraction of an archdemon, first off would almost certainly turn on each other as they have been documented in doing several times, and if they ever got around to swelling up and turning on the surface, dealing with them without an archdemon to lead them should be significantly easier than dealing with a blight.

Darkspawn ARE Blight. They're infected by it to the core and still transmit it. Also - nec hercules contra plures: if the numbers will turn out to be to great, there's really not much that can be done if they just pour out of Deep Roads on everyone.

 

Then there's of course one other possibility - we know there are more things buried under the earth than just Dwarven ruins, darkspawn and Old Gods. Ancient Tevinter magisters, Titans, and so on - there's no way of telling what could take control over the Darkspawn hive mind.
 

[myahele]

In the bad future, didn't the remaining Old Gods get slaughtered by Corypheus/Nightmare's demon army? I remember a codex saying that they're no longer around and praises the Elder One as the one true god.

 

I don't remember any complaints about darkspawn in that timeline, just demons

[Former_Fiend]

... In what way he's OK in that aspect? He just think releasing the Archdemon is even more insane.

 

Darkspawn ARE Blight. They're infected by it to the core and still transmit it. Also - nec hercules contra plures: if the numbers will turn out to be to great, there's really not much that can be done if they just pour out of Deep Roads on everyone.

 

Then there's of course one other possibility - we know there are more things buried under the earth than just Dwarven ruins, darkspawn and Old Gods. Ancient Tevinter magisters, Titans, and so on - there's no way of telling what could take control over the Darkspawn hive mind.
 

 

 

"The demons are nothing. They're a tool." Solas only takes issue with the intended goal; preempting the Blights, not with the method they were using. Everyone else takes issue with the blood magic and the demon binding.

 

The darkspawn are nothing but vermin. Diseased vermin, to be sure, but vermin all the same. Neither Corypheus or the Architect have demonstrated an innate ability to control them by any means other than simply being more powerful and the spawn's inherent instinct to follow the strongest. The archdemon is the only thing that has demonstrated the ability to command the whole of the horde and make it move with unified purpose without degrading into wandering aimlessly and infighting. Take that away, and the darkspawn are nothing more than a very sharp, slightly radioactive chicken running around with it's head cut off.

 

As for the titans, well, first off, no one knew the titans existed before the Descent, so the wardens not factoring them in is not an indication of foolishness, it's an indication of their lack of omniscience. Secondly, do we have even the slightest indication that the titans could or would do that? The only apparent connection between the titans and the darkspawn is that titans actively repel them.

[FernRain]

On another subject, I just gathered the Scattered Glyphs in the Exalted Plains. The mission related to it says they pre-date the structures where they are found. Going by how the elves resettled the Dale after Andraste died, these are pretty old glyphs. They lead to a temple of Dirthamen, but what I find interesting is that only 2 of the glyphs are tied to him. The others are:

 

The revealed symbols depict a pair of hands cupped around the moon. The Dalish believe Mythal created the moon, but that doesn't really mean that glyph is about her or the moon creation. In other word, this glyph is a bit of an enigma unless there is more moon-elven stuff somewhere that I don't remember.

 

The second one is much more interesting:

 

The revealed symbols show a hawk and a hare chasing the sun. The hawk and hare are linked to Andruil. So Andruil, or some of her subordinates, were chasing the sun. According to the Dalish, the sun was hidden in the abyss (which seems to be another name for the Void) after Elgar'nan got angry at it. Could it be that Andruil was chasing after the sun in the Void to bring it back?

 

The most interesting part of the idea that the glyp represent a hawk and a hare chasing after the Sun in the abyss is how it reflect an Avvar tale: bird of preys (hawk, eagles and friends) and a ptarmigan (or lagopus which in Greek means hare-foot)  chased after a golden cask buried deep under the earth. I suspect the Avvar took an elven tale and twisted it. They might have done the same with others and might provide alternative version of some Dalish tales.

 

Nice find on the Avvar tale! I remember a dev saying something about JoH being important to the lore, and there seem to be some similarities in tales and art to the elves.

 

Take Sigfrost, a bear of wisdom (left), sounds like Dirthamen whose favored animal was the bear:

 

 

Or Rilla of the Fireside, a god whose blessing aided in the making of babies. Sounds like Sylaise the hearthkeeper, goddess of domestic arts who liked to stay around her home tree.

 

Additionally, according to Architect the Old Gods are the closest thing to "light" darkspawn can experience, which reminds me of Corypheus saying he wanted to "light" .... the only source of "light" I know of and is special is "The Sun" and the blood spilled from it after Elgar'nans fight.

 

I had a look into that. One of his quotes was, "Awake, in a world twisted into perversion and ruin. Awake, only to discover the light of wisdom has gone black".

[Aulis Vaara]

Just going to mention here that upon killing the last Archdemon, the problem isn't going to be darkspawn, but the complete unleashing of the Taint. The Old Gods being seals on the Dark One's the Taint's prison has been theorized since Origins and Trespasser lore has only reinforced that theory. Also makes sense given one of the sources of this series is The Wheel Of Time. Killing the last Archdemon may well destroy the world.

[Shari'El]

Well technically speaking the Blight is a form of ultimate power if you use it properly.

Like Coryphifish , he was immortal and unkillable , he did a small mistake though with his dragons ,but if he didn't ...

Then through the Blight you can mindcontrol everyone infected.

So  you can't be killed , you can mindcontrol all the blighted peons ,sure you look ugly and corrupted but so what?

 

I'm pretty sure their status as "Gods" wasn't going to last long , and the Evanuris knew it .

They had Fen Harel saying they weren't gods and freeing slaves.

The Forgotten Ones saying they weren't gods and busy getting more powerful.

There's the sinner showing everyone turning into a dragon was nothing divine or special.

They killed Mythal , sending the message well they could die.

 

And if the temple of Mythal wasn't propaganda , the other Evanuris were mistreating their own people.

Now my point of view is most of them probably deserved to be stoned to death , but I doubt they felt the same way.

 

There was this theory that Andruil created armor out of red lyrium, it seems like a reasonable speculation seeing that Samson had a red lyrium armor which made him several times more powerful...

 

One day Andruil grew tired of hunting mortal men and beasts. She began stalking The Forgotten Ones, wicked things that thrive in the abyss. Yet even a god should not linger there, and each time she entered the Void, Andruil suffered longer and longer periods of madness after returning.

 

Andruil put on armor made of the Void, and all forgot her true face. She made weapons of darkness, and plague ate her lands. She howled things meant to be forgotten, and the other gods became fearful Andruil would hunt them in turn. So Mythal spread rumors of a monstrous creature and took the form of a great serpent, waiting for Andruil at the base of a mountain.

 

Madness, "forgot her true face", darkness, plagues.

All these things hinted at red lyrium since it deteriorates the mind, causes disfiguration and could be made into armor and weapons (Samson).

 

Now, if the Evanuris mined red lyrium out of titan corpses it means they didn't unleash the blight, like FrankW said in one of his posts - it seems like corrupted lyrium isn't just blighted lyrium, the essence of lyrium makes the taint act differently. A non-mage consuming red lyrium becomes more powerful, much quicker but also loses their mind faster. Lyrium sings, the blight sings, their songs become one, creating another thing entirely.

This makes me think that red lyrium is a new thing, Solas doesn't seem to know what it is, at the Temple of Sacred Ashes he said that the magic might have drawn the lyrium and corrupted it, we know that isn't true and that red lyrium is blighted lyrium. Now, I'm not saying you can't corrupt lyrium with blood magic or something of the sort, but I'm pretty certain red lyrium isn't the source of the blight.

Another thing, if all of the Evanuris were just powerful mages, wearing a red lyrium armor would possibly mean the death of them seeing regular lyrium kills mages on contact (unless things worked differently in a world pre-Veil, something I doubt seeing I think the elves used the dwarves to mine lyrium safely).

 

Another plausible idea is that Andruil harnessed powers directly from the blight, the blight causes the mind to deteriorate and also disfigures people. Plagues and darkness also fits the blight better than the red lyrium and this part of the codex: "she howled things meant to be forgotten" makes me naturally think of the calling. Seeing Andruil was one of the Evanuris it is reasonable to think that she might have been able to cleanse herself from the taint given enough time. 

 

While it does say the other gods were fearful Andruil would hunt them, it doesn't mean they condemn her actions, perhaps they were afraid of her newly gained powers and after Andruil's defeat hatched a plan to harness the power of the blight in a "safe" manner. For all we know their plan might have been to harvest dragon hearts (I have no evidence to support this, just the fact that dragons seems resistant to blight and cleansing runes are made from hearts) and use them to control the blight.

 

I also want to point out that "the Void" is the name of the place "The Empty Ones" thought to be the origin of the blight, it could be nothing but seeing that both elves and this cult spoke of that place I feel compelled to dive in.

I speculated before that the Void is another dimension, like the Fade, but I'm now uncertain, so then I thought, what if the Void is the area beneath the pillars of the earth? Beneath the titans. A place of "nothingness", utter darkness. I don't know why the blight would exist there, perhaps it has something to do with the tale of Elgar'nan throwing the "sun" to the Void, and that whatever that "sun" was got corrupted (from within) to become the origin of the blight. It could've been a powerful spirit, like a spirit of hope (if I search for symbolism) that got corrupted over time and was thrown by Elgar'nan to said place beneath the earth, perhaps said spirit created the first of the elves from the earth, out of curiosity or boredom, and eventually got jealous of their achievements and emotions. Either way, "sun" done goof and Elgar'nan imprisoned him so he won't risk his freedom.

 

This makes me think of this (heavily discussed) mural:

 

Spoiler

 

Why does these 7 orbs must be the Evanuris? Why can't they be titans, or the forgotten ones? 

 

What if by killing a titan, the blight was unleashed? Not from the actual death of the titan, but the fact that there was no longer something stopping the blight from spreading. We know darkspawn don't set foot inside titans, what if that's because titans, like dragons, kill the blight? Or even that the song of the pure lyrium repels it so it scares of the darkspawn?

 

All these layers that Solas draws just make me think about our earth

 

Spoiler

 

What if the mural is more literal than we think? Sky, earth, titans, the Void...

 

Several points that I have no idea where to put in my (massive) post:

1. The taint can be cleansed with blood magic, but red lyrium can be grown from bodies (like regular lyrium, if consumed my mages through extended periods of time, like Corypheus).

2. Red lyrium isn't as "angry" in cold climates.

3. Fenris can pass through physical objects because of his lyrium tattoos which allow him to tap into the Fade while still giving him magic resistance. 

4. Red lyrium is anti-magic and an opposite force to regular lyrium.

5. After writing the word lyrium so many times it starts looking like gibberish.

 

By the way, behind that orb of... eyes.. there is definitely a silhouette of a city, it's super intentional. 

[Shari'El]

It's rather futuristic and we do find a chapter of Hard in Hightown that Varric has yet to write, so maybe it's from the future? Lol that would be a twist! I love the style though. It really feels modern in that abstract sort of way. Like those expensive sculptures you see in condos.

 

Spirits are timeless, it's not that weird to have a book from the future there.

[FrankWisdom]

Spirits are timeless, it's not that weird to have a book from the future there.

You're on fire Shari   Wow I was going to say something that had weird sexual innuendo (unintended) but I just thought about it. Anyways I'll have to make a reply to your big a*s*s post above. I agree with pretty much everything you brought forth.

 

Edit: I was going to say You're on fire Shari "I'll have to put you out" but it sounded weird when I thought about it (at least to say to someone that I don't know very well )

[FernRain]

Shari I thoroughly enjoyed that post! I drew the black city(?) on that mural:

 

 

Something that I've been wondering is what are "shapeless worlds airless skies" from Falon'din's song? And Mythal's "we few who travel far". It makes me think they've been to space or something. Wouldn't surprise me with their eclipses, moons and shadowed spheres. Plus they were into astronomy if the culturally absorbed astrariums are anything to go by. Then there's the crossroads, they had to get it from somewhere .

 

What if it's something weird like at the bottom of the sky in the wellspring? Do we have any records of what one would find down there if we "fell" like the Dwarves are so scared of?

 

And whatever went on between Elgar'nan and the sun, the bloody aftermath (stars according to the Dalish) interested Andruil enough to make a spear from it to sacrifice people with. Lovely..

[FrankWisdom]

There was this theory that Andruil created armor out of red lyrium, it seems like a reasonable speculation seeing that Samson had a red lyrium armor which made him several times more powerful...

 

 

Madness, "forgot her true face", darkness, plagues.

All these things hinted at red lyrium since it deteriorates the mind, causes disfiguration and could be made into armor and weapons (Samson).

 

Now, if the Evanuris mined red lyrium out of titan corpses it means they didn't unleash the blight, like FrankW said in one of his posts - it seems like corrupted lyrium isn't just blighted lyrium, the essence of lyrium makes the taint act differently. A non-mage consuming red lyrium becomes more powerful, much quicker but also loses their mind faster. Lyrium sings, the blight sings, their songs become one, creating another thing entirely.

This makes me think that red lyrium is a new thing, Solas doesn't seem to know what it is, at the Temple of Sacred Ashes he said that the magic might have drawn the lyrium and corrupted it, we know that isn't true and that red lyrium is blighted lyrium. Now, I'm not saying you can't corrupt lyrium with blood magic or something of the sort, but I'm pretty certain red lyrium isn't the source of the blight.

Another thing, if all of the Evanuris were just powerful mages, wearing a red lyrium armor would possibly mean the death of them seeing regular lyrium kills mages on contact (unless things worked differently in a world pre-Veil, something I doubt seeing I think the elves used the dwarves to mine lyrium safely).

 

Another plausible idea is that Andruil harnessed powers directly from the blight, the blight causes the mind to deteriorate and also disfigures people. Plagues and darkness also fits the blight better than the red lyrium and this part of the codex: "she howled things meant to be forgotten" makes me naturally think of the calling. Seeing Andruil was one of the Evanuris it is reasonable to think that she might have been able to cleanse herself from the taint given enough time. 

 

While it does say the other gods were fearful Andruil would hunt them, it doesn't mean they condemn her actions, perhaps they were afraid of her newly gained powers and after Andruil's defeat hatched a plan to harness the power of the blight in a "safe" manner. For all we know their plan might have been to harvest dragon hearts (I have no evidence to support this, just the fact that dragons seems resistant to blight and cleansing runes are made from hearts) and use them to control the blight.

 

You're on to something. Andruil might have use red lyrium armor, but I always thought of the blight because of the "plague at her lands" and "she howled things that were meant to be forgotten". Though it could easily have been a mixture of both (blight magic and red lyrium).

 

Now you know what I think about the Evanuris enslaving dwarves to mine lyrium, we're on the same page. So what if after the Evanuris found out about the blight they sought ways to channel and control it "safely". What if that is why they infected Titans? Perhaps they tried to use lyrium as a way to channel the blight but it backfired and created a blighted Titan.

 

i.e. "What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger."

 

Now, we've speculated this before, but at least in this case we'd have more context.  The It (in the "wake its anger" quote) could be another primordial being, perhaps the "progenitor" of the blight itself. So it depends on what makes the red lyrium "angry" and give off "heat".

 

We know that their were vines that enveloped a "sphere of fire" down there. This would explain the "heat" perhaps and the "anger". A sphere of fire however does not seem synonymous with "Titan". So is the angry part caused by whatever "whispers" through the blight within red lyrium or is it caused by the Titan itself who is blighted. If it's the latter, then I'd wager what the Evanuris could unleash has to do with blighted Titans first because of their experiments to harness the blight.

 

So perhaps the Evanuris got the idea from Andruil as a result of her extracurricular activities (hunting the forgotten ones) or Andruil was the first to try and claim that power, perhaps she was manipulated by the other Evanuris in doing so.

 

Either way Mythal was able to cleanse Andruil. Given what I speculated about Dragon Blood, I'm guessing it is how Mythal was able to "cleanse" her from the "taint" and/or the effects of red lyrium.

 

 

I also want to point out that "the Void" is the name of the place "The Empty Ones" thought to be the origin of the blight, it could be nothing but seeing that both elves and this cult spoke of that place I feel compelled to dive in.

I speculated before that the Void is another dimension, like the Fade, but I'm now uncertain, so then I thought, what if the Void is the area beneath the pillars of the earth? Beneath the titans. A place of "nothingness", utter darkness. I don't know why the blight would exist there, perhaps it has something to do with the tale of Elgar'nan throwing the "sun" to the Void, and that whatever that "sun" was got corrupted (from within) to become the origin of the blight. It could've been a powerful spirit, like a spirit of hope (if I search for symbolism) that got corrupted over time and was thrown by Elgar'nan to said place beneath the earth, perhaps said spirit created the first of the elves from the earth, out of curiosity or boredom, and eventually got jealous of their achievements and emotions. Either way, "sun" done goof and Elgar'nan imprisoned him so he won't risk his freedom.

 

This makes me think of this (heavily discussed) mural:

 

Spoiler

 

Why does these 7 orbs must be the Evanuris? Why can't they be titans, or the forgotten ones? 

 

What if by killing a titan, the blight was unleashed? Not from the actual death of the titan, but the fact that there was no longer something stopping the blight from spreading. We know darkspawn don't set foot inside titans, what if that's because titans, like dragons, kill the blight? Or even that the song of the pure lyrium repels it so it scares of the darkspawn?

"The Abyss" and "The Void" are said to be found in The Fade. The Raw Fade is also described as Void places within the void (between dreams). However pre-veil we don't know how this was described in places like "the unchanging world". Given eluvians this also can easily be explained. perhaps the "void places" were pocket dimensions linked to the "unchanging world" via eluvians, where the forgotten ones resided. If they were elvhen and were the "high keepers" of the Evanuris at one point (as one of my theories would suggest), then that wouldn't be far-fetched.

 

As for the sun and the mural. I agree.

 

"Why does these 7 orbs must be the Evanuris? Why can't they be titans, or the forgotten ones?"

 

You are missing one possibility, (though they might be the same beings as you suggest). What if they are the "Old Gods" (who are perhaps the Forgotten Ones or the physical representations of the Evanuris).

 

Think about it. The mural depicts big "shining" orbs holding back or channeling the darkness i.e. the blight. Then we have the sun imprisoned in living darkness.

 

What if the "Old Gods" who are chained and dreaming are being used as seals to keep the "sun" imprisoned. Perhaps the darkness was at one point something made to hold back but got corrupted. If the Darkspawn are looking to infect the "Old Gods" and dragons are naturally resistant to the blight then wouldn't it make sense for them be "guardians" of a sort who have previous experience with the blight. If their blood (dragon blood) was used to create the blight in the first place it might be that the "calling" is what ties the darkspawn to them. The blood in its pure form, before the corruption. All of it calling from whatever is imprisoned i.e. "the sun".

 

Anyways, I'm in a hurry so I can't expound my thoughts anymore clearly. I'll come back to it, but thanks for sharing your thoughts, it made me think.

 

 

What if the mural is more literal than we think? Sky, earth, titans, the Void...

 

Several points that I have no idea where to put in my (massive) post:

1. The taint can be cleansed with blood magic, but red lyrium can be grown from bodies (like regular lyrium, if consumed my mages through extended periods of time, like Corypheus).

2. Red lyrium isn't as "angry" in cold climates.

3. Fenris can pass through physical objects because of his lyrium tattoos which allow him to tap into the Fade while still giving him magic resistance. 

4. Red lyrium is anti-magic and an opposite force to regular lyrium.

5. After writing the word lyrium so many times it starts looking like gibberish.

 

By the way, behind that orb of... eyes.. there is definitely a silhouette of a city, it's super intentional. 

Lol.  Yes, probably Arlathan and/or The Golden City, especially if they are One and the same. Again, I'll come back to this later when I have time.

[Shari'El]

You're on fire Shari   Wow I was going to say something that had weird sexual innuendo (unintended) but I just thought about it. Anyways I'll have to make a reply to your big a*s*s post above. I agree with pretty much everything you brought forth.

 

Edit: I was going to say You're on fire Shari "I'll have to put you out" but it sounded weird when I thought about it (at least to say to someone that I don't know very well )

 

Hahahaha XD   

Looking forward for your post.

 

Shari I thoroughly enjoyed that post! I drew the black city(?) on that mural:

 

-snip-

 

Something that I've been wondering is what are "shapeless worlds airless skies" from Falon'din's song? And Mythal's "we few who travel far". It makes me think they've been to space or something. Wouldn't surprise me with their eclipses, moons and shadowed spheres. Plus they were into astronomy if the culturally absorbed astrariums are anything to go by. Then there's the crossroads, they had to get it from somewhere .

 

What if it's something weird like at the bottom of the sky in the wellspring? Do we have any records of what one would find down there if we "fell" down there?

 

Whatever went on between Elgar'nan and the sun, the bloody aftermath (stars according to the Dalish) interested Andruil enough to make a spear from it.

 

Yeah! I now recall seeing what you drew some time ago, nice catch.

It's a good thing they decided to release these in high-res, there a lot of things that you just can't see in game.

 

This song (for anyone reading and wondering  ):

http://dragonage.wik...ng_to_Falon'Din

 

"Lethanavir, master-scryer, be our guide, 

Through shapeless worlds and airless skies."

 

I had no idea that "scryer" is a legit word until 2 minutes ago (I'm not sure if it's seldom used or if it's because I'm not a native speaker  ), so here.

I tried translating lethanavir.

 

letha - ??

na - your

vir - way/path

 

I only know "leth" from lethallin & lethallan, seeing both are used almost in the same manner I'll assume "lethal" is the part that overlaps, which is different from "letha"... So I'm assuming "letha" is show or vision or something of the sort since it fits in the context... So lethanavir is perhaps another alias that means guide?

 

This word also appears in the dalish prayer for the dead

 

"O Falon'Din

Lethanavir--Friend to the Dead

Guide my feet, calm my soul,

Lead me to my rest."

 

Falon'Din, the guide, friend of the dead.

There was no Veil at the time of elven empire, so he didn't guide the dead to "the beyond", and to be honest I don't think he was a very a charitable person, the only guiding I see him doing is guiding people to their death if they don't bow to him  .

Master-scryer makes me think "friend of the dead" was "friend of the spirits" and that perhaps he used them to look into the future, it doesn't fit perfectly though since spirits were abundant and all elves could communicate with them.

 

Shapeless worlds and airless skies makes me think about the Fade, it fits the whole "guide the dead to the beyond" thing.

 

As for the wellspring, I thought the same, there are clouds so.. vapor... and we can't see a thing beyond them.

It could be ground, but that would be just disappointing  .

 

The devs are so obsessed with spheres, sphere-like shapes and the number 7 >_>

[FernRain]

*sprints into thread*

 

Everyone! I found a thing!

 

Elgar'nan Enaste flavour text that I don't remember reading:

 

Elgar'nan, Sun's-death

Burn the ground under your gaze

Grant the fire blessing.

 

Your people call out,

For all things to end in flame

Ashes sing Your Praise

 

So he "killed" the sun. His gaze makes fire. More ending in flame a la order of fiery promise.

[FernRain]

A sphere of fire is the sun! Okay I'm starting to lose it.

 

But that's what a sun is basically, a sphere of fire.

 

But what I don't understand, according to the Dalish (*mumbles* ..) Elgar'nan let the sun back out.

[Shari'El]

So perhaps the Evanuris got the idea from Andruil as a result of her extracurricular activities (hunting the forgotten ones) or Andruil was the first to try and claim that power, perhaps she was manipulated by the other Evanuris in doing so.

 

Either way Mythal was able to cleanse Andruil. Given what I speculated about Dragon Blood, I'm guessing it is how Mythal was able to "cleanse" her from the "taint" and/or the effects of red lyrium.

 

That's better than my "heart of dragon" idea -cough-

 

"The Abyss" and "The Void" are said to be found in The Fade. The Raw Fade is also described as Void places within the void (between dreams). However pre-veil we don't know how this was described in places like "the unchanging world". Given eluvians this also can easily be explained. perhaps the "void places" were pocket dimensions linked to the "unchanging world" via eluvians, where the forgotten ones resided. If they were elvhen and were the "high keepers" of the Evanuris at one point (as one of my theories would suggest)), then that wouldn't be far-fetched.

 

The main reason I thought the Void could be underground is because of Elgar'nan's tale:

 

Elgar'nan was furious at what his father had done and vowed vengeance. He lifted himself into the sky and wrestled the sun, determined to defeat him. They fought for an eternity, and eventually the sun grew weak, while Elgar'nan's rage was unabated. Eventually Elgar'nan threw the sun down from the sky and buried him in a deep abyss created by the land's sorrow. With the sun gone, the world was covered in shadow, and all that remained in the sky were the reminders of Elgar'nan's battle with his father—drops of the sun's lifeblood, which twinkled and shimmered in the darkness.

 

I read the comics two weeks ago and pondered whether Titus used the term with knowledge or out of lack of a better word, "there are void places, gaps between dreams", it could also mean empty places but I'm not sure.

The Chantry seems to be uncertain about where the Void exists, on one hand it is "in all things", on the other it is the Fade or in the Fade.

The elves (the dalish) seem to believe it exists separately and is the home of the Forgotten Ones.

"The Empty Ones" believe it is the origin of the blight, they believe in the Maker, I'm not sure if it means they believe the Void exists in the Fade though.

 

"Why does these 7 orbs must be the Evanuris? Why can't they be titans, or the forgotten ones?"

 

You are missing one, though they might be the same as you suggest. What if they are the "Old Gods" (who are perhaps the Forgotten Ones or the physical representations of the Evanuris).

 

I actually didn't forget about them D:

I just wrote that thinking that the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones, entirely ignoring the fact it was not confirmed anywhere, teehee 

In my post I also meant to write about the fact that the Old Gods are great dragons and since dragons are highly resistant to the blight it makes sense to have them guard the "sun" (just like you said). It fits with the Forgotten Ones so nicely because of the fact they dwell in the Void (if you trust dalish tales).

I just wrote so much I forgot to bring it up, thank you for filling the gaps in my sloppily written post 

[azarhal]

On the subject of Elgar'nan letting the sun back, I think that's a Dalish story to explain the sphere of light in the sky at day. That might not be the original sun.

 

edit:

There might be something in the Canticle of Trials (complete version in WoT vol 2) in regard to the Sun. The whole thing sound like someone who went into the Fade (called the Beyond in the text *cough*), got lost in the Void/Abyss, lost her face and who was attacked by everyone around her but using the Maker's light (aka the Sun) as guide, but it was only visible when she closed her eyes.

 

 

And whatever went on between Elgar'nan and the sun, the bloody aftermath (stars according to the Dalish) interested Andruil enough to make a spear from it to sacrifice people with. Lovely..

 

We don't know what Andruil did with her spear, her followers were scared that she would use it on them but not why she would and if she did. The text also use the term "become Your sacrifice" which is kinda interesting (more below). Although we cannot deny that Andruil was very interested in the sun and the stars. Anyway, that spear is a Chekhov's Gun at this point, I expect to see more of it.

 

While being on the subject of the Goddess of Sacrifice, I think people should pay a bit attention to how Sacrifice is used in the setting. The lore highlight two very specific version of sacrifice:

 

1. blood magic sacrifice

 

Sacrificing others blood/life to gain power. I don't think I need to explain that one. We know that people who do it tend to become even more greedy and crazy. It is banned by most government because it is considered evil.

 

I don't think Andruil was into this kind of sacrifice with the "become Your sacrifice", these words suggest Andruil did not usually do sacrifice of her own.

 

2. self-sacrifice

 

If we take the blood magic as the greedy version, then this would be the selfless version. Now, this one is even harder to link to Andruil, unless she was into the business of blessing people who did self-sacrifice.

 

It is mostly tied to the Grey Wardens in the lore: 

 

The Maker smiles sadly on his Grey Wardens, so the Chantry says, as no sacrifice is greater than theirs.

In War, Victory. In Peace, Vigilance. In Death, Sacrifice.

 

But I think Andraste's sacrifice is a lot more important lore wise:

 

Let the blade pass through the flesh,

Let my blood touch the ground,
Let my cries touch their hearts. Let mine be the last sacrifice.

 

Dragon Age Inquistion also has two things named after Andraste's sacrifice: a Templar skill and an amulet.

[Shari'El]

*sprints into thread*

 

Everyone! I found a thing!

 

Elgar'nan Enaste flavour text that I don't remember reading:

 

Elgar'nan, Sun's-death

Burn the ground under your gaze

Grant the fire blessing.

 

Your people call out,

For all things to end in flame

Ashes sing Your Praise

 

So he "killed" the sun. His gaze makes fire. More ending in flame a la order of fiery promise.

 

What what

What

Wat

I don't remember that.

 

Weird thing though, it was said that the "sun" burned living things under his gaze and that's why Elgar'nan threw him.. it.. whatever... into the abyss.

This describes Elgar'nan as the one who burns the ground.

 

A sphere of fire is the sun! Okay I'm starting to lose it.

 

But that's what a sun is basically, a sphere of fire.

 

But what I don't understand, according to the Dalish (*mumbles* ..) Elgar'nan let the sun back out.

 

That does make sense, and we are kind of silly for ignoring the fact the sun is a... sphere of fire 

 

***ing spheres.

 

So what are the green vines?

Are they there to represent the imprisonment of the "sun"?

 

"For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire.

The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy."

 

Whatever the elves did to the titans seems to have unleashed the anger of something, that something doesn't have to be the titans.

It could really just describe the tale of Elgar'nan throwing the "sun" into the abyss, an aeon passes and the "sun" changes (angry energy), the elves decide to mine lyrium and another thing, awakening the anger of the "sun", the elves then start collapsing deep road tunnels and caverns in terror.

 

Now I reallllly want to know what's up with the green vines.

[FernRain]

So I think Trespasser added some lore/flavour text to items because I just recently got that amulet azarhal linked but I it didn't have the wall of flavour text attached to it. Same with Elgar'nan's bow.

 

Anyhow, vines. Mythal's vallaslin are vines. Mind you so is Elgar'nan's. And actually all of them . Even lyrium veins look like vines.

A forest? A giant tree? Maybe she grew one to hide it? If you go to the DA wiki and type in vine there's all sorts of interesting references.

 

And to add, that song to Sylaise said her heat rivalled Elgar'nan's light. She rivalled a lot of things apparently (andruil's spear, Mythal's temple, June's craft)..

[Elista]

Oh, speaking of Sylaise... she is supposed to be "Blessed". And the text about Elgar'nan's gaze talks about fire blessing. Sylaise is associated with fire... maybe there is a connection...

[Aulis Vaara]

And we know how much they are fans of Varric's work lol I love how the chapter changes depending on how Here Lies The Abyss ended.

Did anyone catch the codex entry strongly hinting that Arlathan is the Golden City?

You could kindly post it.