Yep that is really interesting. I wonder if the stone was red lyrium, which is known to thin the veil and attract demons.
The fact that he states it is physically changing him is probably a good indicator of this. Also the dreaming is the most interesting. As we know Dwarves that used to be linked to Titans did not sleep which is why they don't dream and have no conscious or unconscious connection to The Fade. That must mean that the blight which infects red lyrium is having adverse effects even on dwarves, similar to the calling. I'm not sure what that means but I'm glad you shared it. I didn't pay enough attention to that quest whenever I did it, but I remember asking the same questions ;P
The quest itself is called "stone dreams" and I think it ends in you killing an elf mage (video at 2:50)? There's a dwarf later on (at 3:45) in the cave next to some red lyrium, maybe that was him? .
The quest itself is called "stone dreams" and I think it ends in you killing an elf mage (video at 2:50)? There's a dwarf later on (at 3:45) in the cave next to some red lyrium, maybe that was him? .
Lol, yeah I went on the wiki and found the quest "stone dreams". That's when I remembered which one it was. The dwarf was in fact the one who wrote the journal, which raises many question. It does though confirm that he was working red lyrium.
First I think the Golden City is Arlathan , the last piece of the ancient world , a place where the fade and Thedas still coexist in some form .
What makes me think that?Well it's in the fade , but it obeys the rule of the material plane."Immutable , static , unchanging".
Now the Blight :
There is two form of known blight , one is red lyrium and the others is the one coming from the Golden City.
The one we have the most information about is the one coming from Titans.
The elves led by Mythal went underground to hunt the "Pillars of the Earth " and make "the earth bloom with their passings".
Spoiler
"In this place we prepare to hunt the pillars of the earth. Their workers scurry, witless, soulless. This death will be a mercy. We will make the earth blossom with their passing."
For one moment there is a vivid image of two overlapping spheres; unknown flowers bloom inside their centers. Then it fades.
The two overlapping spheres and flowers blooming are a recurring theme.
The elves messed up , make something angry , have to seal the place and run away.(Cf Primeval Thaig , a Thaig which was sealed and forgotten on purpose.Where you could find strange statue (claws of Dumat , another statue being a way darker and scarier version of mythal dragon mosaic , elven loot , and the red lyrium idol
Spoiler
There is more details about the messed up part , the elves didn't just mine Titans and a Titans got angry or died and BAM the Blight , no they messed up when they tried to make something "bloom" from the dead , beaten or mined Titans.
Spoiler
"Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!"
For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire. The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy. A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic. Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast. A voice whispers:
"What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."
So my first theory is Elves created Red Lyrium by accident , they saw the errors of their way and sealed the place.
The question now is why?Why go and kill Titans , it seems Elgar'nan and Mythal went there simply to conquer the "Earth" to tame the land .
But that's not true , they also wanted to use lyrium for something more , making something "Bloom".
I am empty, filled with nothing(?),
Mythal gives you dreams.
It fills you, within you(?),
Making our leaders proud.
My little stones,
Never yours the sun.
Forever, forever.
Now this might explain why the elves and Mythal went underground.
Some were filled with "nothing" , and Mythal went to slay the Titans underground to give her people "dreams" .
(The Sun is also important but I'll come back to it later.Because I do not think the "sun " is linked to Titans.)
In the Trespasser Deep Roads , where Mythal (and Fen Harel ) went , they build a huge lyrium well , and put a great number of coffins around it .
Cole says "They're all singing .Coffers , Coffins , Corpses that aren't dead.A song crying out in the dark."
The coffins are too big to be dwarven , and well they look like the ones you can find in the Solasan Temple.So I assume what was in it is a number of elves in uthenera channeling a spell.
The spell to make the "Earth bloom" to fill nothing with dreams , the one that ended in bloom and blight.
Spoiler
The pages of this book—memory?—describes an immensely tall, immensely graceful vine that flowers with the heat of a copper sunset and has blossoms as large as ponds, petals as long as a man, and scents puffing out like citron and sky and carrion-death.
The day the last of the vines folds, spent and extinct, the creator of this memory weeps and, after recording the flower's sights and sounds, enters uthenera.
"Treasure this thought, for it was the last of its kind, and so much more than the last of me."
How I explain the Blight :
There's a balance in Thedas between magic , everything is somehow magical but one magic is immutable , solid , the other is ethereal everchanging.
Titans and their blood were part of this balance , lyrium reinforce reality.(my best example is without Titans , a powerful fade creature could change Thedas into a cheese wheel)
The elves knew this
Spoiler
The pages of this book—memory?—show a solemn group of elves in an ampitheater of living wood, entire trees grown into seats and stairs for the listeners to recline on. Two other elves and a spirit of learning are speaking in turn on ways to bend the properties of the material world when casting spells. At the end, the spirit, with the air of a senior lecturer, floats forward and booms in a surprisingly deep voice.
"The unchanging world is delicate: spells of power invite disaster and annihilation. The unchanging world is stubborn: the pull of the earth fiercely resists making fire run like water or stone rise like mist. The unchanging world rings with its own harmony. Listen with fearless hearts, and great works will unfold."
Even so , they faced some problem at one point , they tried to bring life and will (Flower blooming and dreams) I have an idea why and it's related to the "Sun" but I'll get to it in another post because there isn't much information so even more total tinfoil rambling.
What went wrong?The elves magic comes from the Fade , and they channel their huge power through lyirum , its antithesis.
The same thing happened at the Temple of Sacred Ashes , the moutain was full of lyrium , blue normal lyrium , a blast from Fen Harel Orb full of fade magic , poof you get: Blighted Lyrium!
Solas says "Magic could have drawn on lyrium beneath the temple , corrupted it."
Now like I said there was a balance and without the veil things were fine , because Titans and I suspect great dragons or whatever the sun was kept a form of balance.
Whether Solas is speaking of the remnants of his rebels (true Elvhen, not the modern elves who join him) or other Elvhen sentinels is unclear, but whatever the case Abelas acknowledges Solas as an ancient Elvhen as well as ponders Solas' words. There are still Elvhen people who Solas is fighting for. I don't however think that those Cole was speaking of is those Elvhen people. the masked part is what tells me otherwise.
As for them using Uthenera, well Abelas all but confirms this. They needto do so at this point to survive as long as they have so far and to keep that way. I think that is how they maintain their connection to The Fade (immortality) unlike modern Elves who have lost this "conscious" connection.
Thanks for your response. My only question - could you explain why "the masked part" tells you otherwise? I was interpreting "masked" as "hidden." My thought was Solas had hidden his remnant within an eluvian and they are in uthenera awaiting his call to reawaken - just like Abelas and the other sentinels only awakened when the ToM was threatened. What is your interpretation of the phrase "masked in a mirror"?
^ I like your idea Spongebob Reznore57, about the balance, a few days ago I thought about how Titans reign the unchanging world and the spirits the Fade, and that there is a weird connection between lyrium and the energy from the Fade. I couldn't put my finger on it though, I just agreed to myself they have some relationship and I let it be.
Now you remind me of a conversation Solas has with Cassandra
Cassandra: What is it like when templars nullify magic, Solas?
Solas: It is as though you are drawing upon the world around us. Mages draw forth the essence of the fade, and use that essence to shape reality.
Cassandra: And our powers drive it back, making this world harder to affect?
Solas: In a manner of speaking. You reinforce reality so it's less mutable. The fade has nowhere to gain a foothold, and the magic disperses.
Cassandra: No one has ever accused me of reinforcing reality before.
Solas: You are a seeker of truth.
Although Cassandra is a seeker, she asks about templars, not seekers.
I think it that templars aren't required to take lyrium to gain their abilities though, I just dug up a conversation with Alistair about templar training
"You don't need lyrium in order to learn the templar talents. Lyrium just makes templars talents more effective. Or so I'm told. Maybe it doesn't even do that".
If they had to it would've been a super strong case.
Another thing I wanted to mention - when I read those codices, I've noticed the flower/blossom thing as well, especially in the old elven writing codex you quoted ("We will make the earth blossom with their passing") and I remembered how the blight was said to seep the earth from its' moisture, blacken it and turn its' plants to dust (that was said in The World of Thedas vol 1, page 145). So perhaps they were already blighted, and that's why they sought to strike down the titans?
Edit: found this thread, seems like lyrium is required to become a templar.
Another thing I wanted to mention - when I read those codices, I've noticed the flower/blossom thing as well, especially in the old elven writing codex you quoted ("We will make the earth blossom with their passing") and I remembered how the blight was said to seep the earth from its' moisture, blacken it and turn its' plants to dust (that was said in The World of Thedas vol 1, page 145). So perhaps they were already blighted, and that's why they sought to strike down the titans?
Edit: found this thread, seems like lyrium is required to become a templar.
I could imagine Mythal and Fen Harel , well at least the current version of them , wanting to cure a blighted Titan.
But from the codex , I get the feeling they didn't go down there for charity or helping anyone but themselves.
The "unleash in their greed " doesn't sound too good.
Still the history of dwarves and their relationship with elves is muddy at this point.
In WOT2 , there's talk of golden mosaics in a lost thaig showing dwarves and elves fighting dragons and other beasts.
The dwarves were scared of dragons , but the elves thought at least their shape was divine and sacred , and they would mimic , tame and preserve them (at least Mythal ).
Then there's "my little stones (dwarves) never yours the sun".Now Dalish tales says Elgar'nan beat up the sun , and Mythal came calm things down and managed a truce.So the elves had the "Sun" (whatever that is , dragons or another powerful thing above the elves) but not at full times , part of the truce was the creation of the night and the moon.
There's also this mosaic .(took this from FernRain post in another thread)
Spoiler
Now what it shows to me...
At the middle , the "Sun" , what we know of the sun is vague at best.But there's a few interesting clues.
The Sun in Chantry lore is the symbol of the Maker , the ultimate Creator at least when it comes to fade based lifeform ( dwarves are out of the world creation tale , Wynne says in DAO the dwarves aren't children of the maker).
In Dalish myth , the Sun was the father of the first elves , at least Elgar'nan , Elgarn'an beat the sun and threw him in some abyss , and darkness appears.Mythal comes , calm things down.The Sun is restored in part , but elves will rule the land now and will have to deal with the night.Mythal creates the moon , still a source of light , even if it's not as shiny and bright.
In both chantry and Dalish lore , the first children turn away from the Sun .
In CHantry lore , some of the first children are thrown in the abyss (Old Gods) in Dalish Lore it's the sun itself who go down the hole.
But I would point out even in Chantry lore , where the Sun is the winner , he then turns away from mankind and disappear.
Now in this mosaic , we can see around the Sun , there is something dark , bad .Probably the Blight.
The funny thing about the Blight , in the Chant of Light there is a prophecy , when the Maker (Sun ) will return and forgive people , people will figure out beneath the Blight there is the Light.
But what it means truly is the Chant of Light is right in part , the elves did cross a Sun deity , and brought darkness.
Then there a blue sphere with lots of little dots , I think it's just the world and people living in it.
Then this world is held by Seven things ...I think it's the Old Gods, Great Dragons.
And finally Elves casting some spell to hold things together.
TL; DR :
The way I read the mosaic.
Just like in Chantry tales , the first children aka proto elves turned away from a Sun deity.
This caused darkness , Blight , etc
The difference is we see the elves using what I assume is the souls of the Old Gods to hold the world together and keep their position as "Gods" , whatever is going on they don't look scared by the whole darkness surrounding the Sun.
I could imagine Mythal and Fen Harel , well at least the current version of them , wanting to cure a blighted Titan.
But from the codex , I get the feeling they didn't go down there for charity or helping anyone but themselves.
The "unleash in their greed " doesn't sound too good.
Less cure, more kill the titan.
And I'm almost certain the dwarves were looked down by the elves, seeing they can't dream.
As for the painting, I remember staring into it for a few minutes trying to figure out "what the heck", with the Solas & other Solas standing by the sides (I think the left one is supposed to be Fen'Harel, seeing he's covered with furs and practically howling to the moon) but I can't make sense of these orbs, although there are seven... If you take a look at the spheres, there are 3 orange, 4 silver, and the one in the middle if we consider it a sphere.
Excluding Fen'Harel the Evanuris ("Elven Pantheon") consist of 4 women (Andruil, Sylaise, Mythal and Ghilan'nain), 3 men (June, Falon'Din and Dirthamen) and one all-father, Elgar'nan. The reason I think about Elgar'nan is because of this codex:
This elven writing found in the Arbor Wilds is so old there seems to be no way to learn what it means.
There are whispers from the Well of Sorrows. It's impossible to understand the entire text, but certain parts suddenly reveal a shadow of their original meaning.
"His crime is high treason. He took on a form reserved for the gods and their chosen, and dared to fly in the shape of the divine. The sinner belongs to Dirthamen; he claims he took wings at the urging of Ghilan'nain, and begs protection from Mythal. She does not show him favor, and will let Elgar'nan judge him."
For one moment there is an image of a shifting, shadowy mass with blazing eyes, whose form may be one or many. Then it fades.
Shadowy mass with blazing eyes, while it could be the sinner (the one was judged) I feel like it can't be, his crime was shapeshifting into a dragon, a form that was reserved to the Evanuris and high priests. The one who judged him (and probably harshly so, seeing he is the god of vengeance) might be the one we see in the vision - a shadowy mass with blazing eyes, no unlike the one we see in the fresco.
There are several depictions of Elgar'nan, such as this, which depicts him with glowing eyes and snarling mouth, and if I remember correctly (that it is indeed him) sometimes we have a weird statue of him:
Spoiler
Which seems sort of snarling to me, it also seems to emit heat, at least on of his statues (the one in the Western Approach), so perhaps the magic that made his eyes blaze waned a bit over the thousand of years.
Notice how Solas in the left has his head covering a sphere and on the right is holding a sphere, the spheres are of different size, the right one bigger and has rays coming from it, similar to the relationship with the smaller and larger sphere in each of those 7 areas.
The only one showing both spheres in the eyed shadow sphere...
I'm not sure what it means, perhaps it's spirit versus body sort of thing, we get these spheres a lot, for example here and here and here ("Two shadowed spheres among stars" and "An eclipse as Fen'Harel stirred").
I really can't crack this one fully, it's too symbolic.
Woah! May I just say before I delve into details of your post, that I am utterly impressed by the sheer amount of labour that went into research/typing this.
Four of the seven are within a red border, red lyrium (I'm reaching )?
All seven have those rays from the "sun", so they are connected to the fade (elves were).
A black spotted area above the elves, with two symbols: blue (sea?) and brown (earth?).
The right elf holds up a sphere with the same *star* design found in the centre of the titan mural. I'm guessing it's a foci (did they mine titans for their foci materials?).
On another note: Mythal made the moon from "glowing earth". Lyrium? Are eclipses like the one that woke Fen'harel powered by a lyrium moon? .
Four of the seven are within a red border, red lyrium (I'm reaching )?
All seven have those rays from the "sun", so they are connected to the fade (elves were).
A black spotted area above the elves, with two symbols: blue (sea?) and brown (earth?).
The right elf holds up a sphere with the same *star* design found in the centre of the titan mural. I'm guessing it's a foci (did they mine titans for their foci materials?).
On another note: Mythal made the moon from "glowing earth". Lyrium? Are eclipses like the one that woke Fen'harel powered by a lyrium moon? .
Isn't that opposite? Three are in the red border You may be reaching, but I don't know anymore, everytime I see red I also think red lyrium, like that elven graffiti you see everywhere in the Dales.
I also thought those rays symbolized the Fade in some manner.
I thought brown - earthly body, blue - ethereal body.
Foci is a good idea, I didn't think about that. The titan mural has another Solas(?) in the right end with a sphere like that, he also has a halo or a sort. My boyfriend polluted my mind, he is a big RHCP fan and when I see that asterisk I think about angel butt holes
You can see the same general theme in both this mural and the titan mural, Solas standing by both sides of the mural, on the left a yellow sphere, on the right a green sphere with... an angel's... butt hole
By the way the description "sphere of fire being enveloped by green vines" makes me think of veilfire for some reason.
You can see from all these murals Solas always loved wearing the color green.
The only reason I say the blue represents sea is because I'm assuming the Elf below it is Mythal (she came out of the sea, whatever that means).
And you know how we never see the second moon? I bet that wasn't a dev oversight like people thought. I think the moon (especially if one was created by Mythal) plays a big role somehow. Especially if the "glowing earth" it was made from is lyrium. The eclipse being some special magical event, maybe. Did they channel celestial bodies with their foci to blow up the titan?
Very good reads. Yes, the blooming flower motifs and the vines are something I was planning to add to my thread. Three particular codices (the same ones reznore showed) are those I want to tie in to whatever the Elvhen people did to the Titan. There is definitely a connection. Also the mural you were talking about is something that caught my eye. I was trying to make sense of it and some things you mentioned hit home with my reasoning. The lyrium moon is an interesting thought. There is definitely a sense of balance between earth and fade (notice the directions of double linings on both motifs, the orange/yellow one is horizontal while the blue one is vertical). I'm guessing these represent earth (horizontal) and fade (vertical).
The sun enveloped in "living darkness" is also very interesting. Like you guys mentioned I immediately thought of Elgar'nan throwing the sun underground. Also notice their are 7 surrounding circles, though only the focal circle (bottom center) is of a different shine then all the others. It also is the only one without a "darkness" attached to it (under every other circle). They also all seem to have "rays" of some kind radiating through them, probably to keep the "darkness" attached to them at bay. I see them as "guardians" holding something back. The black mass surrounding the sun also has many red eyes reminiscent of the "dread wolf" tarot card when Solas leaves our group. This also intrigues me. What you pointed out Fern, with the sinner codex entry also entered my mind. The shifting, shadowy mass with blazing eyes also brings what we see on the mural to life, resonating of the legend of Elgar'nan and the sun. The Parallel's with chantry lore as I described with the Evanuris and the chant also applies here like Reznore pointed out.
Anyways I'll start by updating the thread with what I wanted, mainly the Red lyrium and then the blooming flowers and the Titans, then Kal-Sharok. Then I can start wrapping my head around this mural. So many things to talk about! Anyways it's nice to see the lore junkies "commune" in one place. I'm glad you guys are sharing your thoughts, it puts many things in perspective. A lot of interesting concepts to ponder.
One more thing if I remember correctly there's also talk in the chant of light about the 7 gates of the Golden City.
Now I don't know where they pulled that number from , but the number 7 is strange , there is 7 old gods but in chantry lore the Golden City is the Maker house.
The vision Drakon had from Andraste (also something found in WOT2) is also mind blowing.It sounds like a true vision to me , or Drakon was smoking something more powerful than elfroot before going to sleep.
Anyway there's talk of perhaps Titans , Solas etc...
I'm too tired to wrote the whole thing down right now , but I think it's worth a look.
Thanks for your response. My only question - could you explain why "the masked part" tells you otherwise? I was interpreting "masked" as "hidden." My thought was Solas had hidden his remnant within an eluvian and they are in uthenera awaiting his call to reawaken - just like Abelas and the other sentinels only awakened when the ToM was threatened. What is your interpretation of the phrase "masked in a mirror"?
They sleep, masked in a mirror, hiding, hurting and to wake them. (Gasp) Where did it go?
Well, I might not have expressed myself the right way.
It's not just the masked part. It's the whole quote put into context (the tone that I feel it gives off).
It resonates with what Solas tells us in trespasser.
Spoiler
The masked part I also believe is referring to something hidden. Their "aspect" as well as their location, but I saw this in the context of a cautionary measure i.e. Hidden so no one can find or unleash them. The "to wake them" is what sounds ominous, rather than something meant as a release (like waking up Ancient Elvhen like the sentinels from Uthenera).
Also, the Elvhen left on Thedas do not need to be woken up by Solas, if you listen to what Abelas says, as he mentions
"You cannot imagine, each time we awaken, it slips further from our grasp." (at least in reference to the sentinel Elvhen).
Since Solas mentions other Elvhen being elsewhere and given what Abelas says about Uthenera, I would assume the other Elvhen People Solas mentions practice Uthenera in the same way that Abelas and his ilk do (therefore, the reference about waking them up wouldn't make sense in that context).
When Abelas says "You cannot imagine, each time we awaken, it slips further from our grasp."
He is talking about the knowledge of old and the Well of Sorrows, how it was used by their Elders to store their knowledge before they died. He also mentions the younger Elvhen who were born in the temple do not remember what Mythal was in her fullness or the "keeness" of what they lost. He also goes on to say that
"I will teach them. They must serve. We must prepare for those who cast Mythal down.
Abelas seems to suggest the Evanuris will be unleashed at some point or that their imprisoning is not a permanent solution. Solas mentions he "has plans" for dealing with the Evanuris once he "tears down the veil". Whether Abelas (if you kept him alive) and other Elvhen are (or were, if you killed them) part of that plan remains to be seen. Perhaps Mythal is the one who told them to prepare, visiting them as Flemythal (which would make sense as Abelas mentions the younger Elvhen not remembering how Mythal was in her "fullness", and she states to the inquisitor she is only a shadow of her former self). So a lot of things have yet to come together. Anyways I'm veering off subject
All this to say that the context of the quote compared to what we know of the remaining Elvhen people is what makes me feel that the reference is directed towards the Evanuris and their betrayal rather than the Elvhen people like Abelas and his ilk.
One more thing if I remember correctly there's also talk in the chant of light about the 7 gates of the Golden City.
Now I don't know where they pulled that number from , but the number 7 is strange , there is 7 old gods but in chantry lore the Golden City is the Maker house.
The vision Drakon had from Andraste (also something found in WOT2) is also mind blowing.It sounds like a true vision to me , or Drakon was smoking something more powerful than elfroot before going to sleep.
Anyway there's talk of perhaps Titans , Solas etc...
I'm too tired to wrote the whole thing down right now , but I think it's worth a look.
Spoiler
2) seems to refer to the breach which looked like an eye spilling light unearthly from the waters of the fade.
Spoiler
3) Lady of sorrow seems to reflect Spirit Justinia, who was "armored in light".
Spoiler
5) seems to reference 7 Titans, perhaps in relation to the 7 old gods, shaping the earth when they were awake.
6) Seems highly likely that this is referencing the Kossith and what became the Qunari.
One could no longer be told from the other, and cursed them and cursed their generations (blood does not belong, tooth and claw)
Spoiler
7) Seems to be referencing Fen'Harel. Demon prowling the fade=Pride, wolf hunting deer.
Seems his strategy for dealing with the Evanuris came with divide and conquer, using the weakest link in order to imprison the others.
Then he used his cunning (subterfuge, deceit, guerrilla tactics etc.) to take care of the others.
8) Seems to refer to Haven (where Andraste's ashes were brought to rest), rather than minrathous (where Andraste was burned at the stake) and the golden city. Perhaps this is where the golden City lay before the veil and fall of Arlathan. Minrathous is most likely built upon the ruins of Arlathan however and if The Golden City is Arlathan then something doesn't add up. The chant clearly seems to be referencing Haven however, so perhaps Haven has more significance in terms of the Ancient Elvhen people than we realize.
Spoiler
9) 7 magisters release the blight, turning the golden city black (darkness above) while spawning the blight in Thedas (Darkness below)
10) This is reminiscent of the trials in Haven to get the sacred ashes. The last trial consisted of literally "walking through the fire" symbolizing our faith and devotion. We came out of the other side naked, symbolizing our "rebirth" (forged anew).
Spoiler
12) Vicious beasts could indicate the darkspawn or Archdemons. Meek lambs who became bold is interesting. A people the were weak that came to power. Sounds like humans rather than Ancient Elvhen people, who eventually gave up their "gods" and converted to the chant and the maker. Could be speaking of when the veil was created and humanity suddenly appeared.
Spoiler
Here That's all of his vision. Feel free to dig in
Like you lore man. I hope in the next game we meet the Evanuris. I plan for my Tevinter Necromancer to form a symbiotic form with Falon'Din, god of the Dead in a manner similar to Mythal/Flemeth to defeat Fen'Harel and become the God of Death.
The Portents of the Maker's Return is interesting.
"Seven times seventy men of stone immense
Rose up from the earth like sleepers waking at the dawn,
Crossing the land with strides immeasurable,
And in the hollows of their footprints
Paradise was stamped, indelible."
I agree this sounds like the Titans. The "seven times seventy men of stone" is oddly specific, I'm not sure what that's about.
"And I heard from the East a great cry
As men who were beasts warred with their brothers,
Tooth and claw against blade and bow,
Until one could no longer be told from the other,
And cursed them and cursed their generations."
This one sounds exactly like the whole werewolf vs. elf thing in DA:O to me.
"And those who slept, the ancient ones, awoke,
For their dreams had been devoured
By a demon that prowled the Fade
As a wolf hunts a herd of deer.
Taking first the weakest and frailest of hopes,
And when there was nothing left,
Destroying the bright and bold
By subtlety and ambush and cruel arts."
I like your theory about this being about Fen'Harel. Why did his actions wake them up though? Shouldn't it have been him putting them to sleep? Or is this something that is yet to happen?
"The ninth sacred mountain upon which rests
The mortal dust of Our Lady ascended
Whole into the heavens, to be given high honor
In the Realm of Dreams forever.
And around it, a chorus of spirits sang:
'Whatsoever passes through the fire
Is not lost, but made eternal;
As air can never be broken nor crushed,
The tempered soul is everlasting!'"
This one is a bit confusing, but if this is referring to where the Temple of Sacred Ashes was, then that did already sort of ascend to the heavens when we were fighting Corypheus. I'm not sure what the rest of it could really be, though. The "passing through the fire" does sound like the part of the Gauntlet in DA:O, but not the rest of it as far as I remember.
As mentioned in another thread, I think that Drakon's Exaltations/visions, especially the "Portents of the Maker's return" are actually events related to the games.
(2) The visions begins really sound like the start of DAI and (3) being Justinia isn't a bad idea.
(5) The men of stone immense waking up haven't happened yet, we do know that breach in the Veil make them stir though, so they should wake up once the Veil is removed. This one is probably linked to Eleni's prophecy about the Maker's return.
(6) Man who were beasts sound like werewolves, but that doesn't exclude the Qunari and they used to be the Scaled Ones?
(7) The ancient ones awakening is clearly ancient elves related to Solas's action in the past. Interesting that Drakon's vision painted Solas as a demon though.
(8) The Temple of Sacred Ashes blowing up. Although, the ashes were not there anymore. The speech is interesting though, Realms of Dreams = Fade and air = Fade in a lots of Elven codices too.
(9 -10-11) Drakon seeing the event of the 2nd Blight which he was instrumental in stopping. It could also be another future event where the Black City is destroyed and the Blight invade both the Fade and Thedas.
(12) I think that part is basically the defeat of the Qun and slaves freeing themselves.
(13) This one I believe is more about the balance being restored (i.e. the Veil removed) than Andraste/Maker coming back
Who ever is responsible for Drakon's vision wanted the human ready for when the Veil was going to be removed and facing off the Blight. This lead to the creation of the Chantry. The more we learn about the ancient elves/Tevinter, the more I get the feeling that the Andrastian religion was "made up" to fill in the vacuum, stop new Enuvaris from happening again (the magic rules), give people hope and make people stop looking for "gods" to enslaved themselves too.
It wasn't made by Solas, I'm pretty sure of that. Mythal might be possible, but that would mean she lied when she said she died as Mythal and was too weak until she found an host in Flemeth (who was born in the Tower age). Whoever sent that vision is someone feed up by the Enuvaris and how they lived, consider Solas a demon, doesn't like that the balance is broken (aka the Veil) and doesn't want people to die once it is restored. There is a lack of vengeance themes in the ancient visions, so I suspect it wasn't Mythal. I get the feeling we might have a 3rd person in this card game. It's not just Solas and Mythal that are playing.
I just spent like 4 hours adding stuff to my thread. then I accidentally click on a link and ALL my edits are fuckinggggg erased. GRRRRRR! I hate this damnn system!!!!! keep a record like on Imdb in case internet crashes. God damn I am so mad.... Sorry but I had to post my frustrations 4 effing hours. I feel depressed now.
I should have saved then edited every hour... This is a F*cking edit.
I just spent like 4 hours adding stuff to my thread. then I accidentally click on a link and ALL my edits are fuckinggggg erased. GRRRRRR! I hate this damnn system!!!!! keep a record like on Imdb in case internet crashes. God damn I am so mad.... Sorry but I had to post my frustrations 4 effing hours. I feel depressed now.
I should have saved then edited every hour... This is a F*cking edit.
As mentioned in another thread, I think that Drakon's Exaltations/visions, especially the "Portents of the Maker's return" are actually events related to the games.
(5) The men of stone immense waking up haven't happened yet, we do know that breach in the Veil make them stir though, so they should wake up once the Veil is removed. This one is probably linked to Eleni's prophecy about the Maker's return.
It has happened though. They used to move through Elvhenan and disrupt Ancient Elvhen cities, which is how The Evanuris became aware of them and started mining them for lyrium, as well as do other things to them. They even warred with the Titans. Mythal and Elgar'nan both having been recorded felling some of them.
(6) Man who were beasts sound like werewolves, but that doesn't exclude the Qunari and they used to be the Scaled Ones?
That's why I jokingly referred to the "men that were beasts" as weredragons. It also made me think of the werewolves in origins but there is no way that is what their referencing. This is clearly pertaining to the Kossith. I also thought of the scaled ones, though they aren't described as having horns. We also have no idea if they have any relationship with dragons. Although this isn't confirmed for Qunari either, it's highly implied, especially when Bull says he felt something when he killed the Dragon, like a connection of sorts. They do fit more than anything else though.
(8) The Temple of Sacred Ashes blowing up. Although, the ashes were not there anymore. The speech is interesting though, Realms of Dreams = Fade and air = Fade in a lots of Elven codices too.
I don't think it has to do with its destruction. The verse
"it ascended whole into the heavens, to be given high honor in the realm of dreams forever."
This to me sounds like golden city. high honor in the realm of dreams forever. The one thing that is constant in The Fade is the Blackened City.
Whatsoever passes through the fire is not lost but made eternal, as air can never be tempered or crushed, the tempered soul is everlasting
This could be seen as what happened to Corypheus Although corrupt, he was burned with unholy fire that made him eternal. Solas even comments to this effect, saying "I did not foresee a Tevinter Magister having learned the secret of effective immortality."
Spoiler
Also the Elvhen people refer to the Golden City as the Eternal City.
(9 -10-11) Drakon seeing the event of the 2nd Blight which he was instrumental in stopping. It could also be another future event where the Black City is destroyed and the Blight invade
Again 7 gates, 7 Magisters. This is referring to the Second Sin, when they breached the Golden City, covering both sides in darkness (The Fade and Thedas). He refers to it as the black city because that is how he's always seen it. The rest refers to the Chantry being built and Drakon's role throughout his life, including the second blight.
(12) I think that part is basically the defeat of the Qun and slaves freeing themselves.
The slaves freeing themselves is a good call. I was thinking way earlier than that, but the meek makes perfect sense, the only thing I don't like is that it's directly linked to Andraste. These visions seem to be using parallels through Andraste and her story rather than directly referencing them, though that doesn't exclude their use. Perhaps there are parts that are recountings of his life and parts that are actually visions sent to him by someone powerful (Mythal) who like to nudge or when needed shove history in a certain direction.
Well I should have been more careful, I know how it works. Can't do anything about it now anyways so no point in dwelling on it. I had to let go of those emotions on the spot though...
I had written up all our collective knowlege on red lyrium as well as what we knew about Titans, Evanuris & the blooming flowers as well as how they all could connect. I had also put up allll the relevant codex entries and in-game art screenshots... So yeah.
It feels like someone took a massive dump on my Mona Lisa.
I was finally able to record Renn's comments about Skyhold and the stone:
Sure it's a passing comment made by Renn, but the idea that the stone "holds" things in place could be worth noting. Especially in this case where Skyhold is where the sky was held back.
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