781 réponses à ce sujet

[Shari'El]

Now you've done it Frank, printscreen this pristine filing system of yours to show us  !

 

As for the calling, I'm still secretly clinging to Mythal somehow being involved (well whispers, let me dreeeeam!). I'd like to know to what extent she is a dragon, because she could be like the ultimate dragon.

 

And why would the Avvar/JoH want to paint blood on poor Sigfrost the bear? Blood magic? Because they hate all the gods but Hakkon?

 

Shari I wonder if Razikale's labyrinth is the same labyrinth as the cross roads? Or whether it's synonymous for a trial like those who sought out dreamers.

 

I want to believe Mythal had something to do with the calling as well 

I remember when that video with the backmasked audio first popped up and I listened to it with my earpieces and got dem chills (because creepy).

 

As for the labyrinth as the trials, maybe, it fits, plus I'm pretty stubborn with the idea OG whispers = Evanuris and OG bodies = Forgotten Ones 

If the OG/Evanuris still want to be worshiped they may set up all these meaningless trials for their followers, Razikale’s Reach had that meaningless puzzle to open doors with loot behind them.

[kukumburr]

Like I said, the eye is freaking everywhere in the game. It is also in DAO in the Korcari Wilds carved in a stone with a hand grabbing it. I don't have DAO installed right now or I would take a picture of it (couldn't find one online). But if the eye represent the Lady of the Skies, it make sense it is all over Ferelden and where ever those tribes moved to (there is a Shrine to the Lady of the Skies in Mark of the Assassin which happens between Cumberland and Kirkwall). The eye is rarer in DA2 though.

 

I actually just took a screenshot of this a few days ago, so here it is:

Spoiler

[figment_]

I actually just took a screenshot of this a few days ago, so here it is:

Spoiler

Is that a dragon's head???

 

Oooooh...I think I'm in danger of going off on a tangent!

 

All of this talk of eyes is reminding me of some posts I made on another thread re: Grim Anatomy (WOT2), it's focus (heh) on eyes...and a possible connection to the blight (I'm looking at you, Ghilan'nain!!!).

 

Also need to get a screenshot of the Breach fresco in the rotunda at Skyhold for comparison to the Peacock Feather Mural...hmmm

[FrankWisdom]

Now you've done it Frank, printscreen this pristine filing system of yours to show us  !

 

As for the calling, I'm still secretly clinging to Mythal somehow being involved (well whispers, let me dreeeeam!). I'd like to know to what extent she is a dragon, because she could be like the ultimate dragon.

 

And why would the Avvar/JoH want to paint blood on poor Sigfrost the bear? Blood magic? Because they hate all the gods but Hakkon?

 

Shari I wonder if Razikale's labyrinth is the same labyrinth as the cross roads? Or whether it's synonymous for a trial like those who sought out dreamers.

 

You asked for it

 

 

 

[Shari'El]

You asked for it

 

 

I thought I was tidy, but now I know I'm not.

It's like comparing the dalish to the ancient elves.

 

Edit: You have a folder for Dagna??

For Alistair & Anora??

 

 

I can't believe I just spent like 10 minutes removing the logo from this image so I could have this meme in DAI form.

[FrankWisdom]

I thought I was tidy, but now I know I'm not.

It's like comparing the dalish to the ancient elves.

 

Edit: You have a folder for Dagna??

For Alistair & Anora??

 

 

I can't believe I just spent like 10 minutes removing the logo from this image so I could have this meme in DAI form.

 

I'm thorough and lazy. So I want easy access to my information as well as proof to back up my claims and a place where I can find things I need quickly that pertains to what's been referenced in other posts.

 

The Dagna file is all her dialogue about the Titans. Anora & Alistair is just Aesthetics and graphics comapred to Dragon Age:Origins

 

I took screenshots of all the dialogue I felt was relevant (to lore, history, context etc.) in each section of specific main quests (including all DLC's as you can see). Same thing for a lot of the codices.

 

I'm also print screening and cropping the WoT:2 (digital copy) sections that I find relevant in terms of lore. So yeah, that's how I function

 

The rest is flavor text (dialogue) and images for each character and their personal quests or other stuff.

 

The In-game art and architecture file is self-explanatory... It has all the stuff found throughout Thedas which we've seen posts of (diverse screenshots like the claw of Dumat, all the Elvhen murals and archaic drawings etc.)

 

So far I think I have about 12 gigs of screenshots.

[Abelis]

About the Lady of the Skies, I also tend to think it was Mythal, giving a 'nudge' to history through Andraste. Also about the eye found everywhere in DAI,i would take it as a reference to Mythal too, if she is indeed the lady of the skies.

 

From Visus constellation codex:

Spoiler

Known as "the Watchful Eye" in common parlance, this constellation had great significance to the ancient Alamarri and Cirianne peoples of southern Thedas. The story goes that the Lady of the Skies opened one eye so that the light from her gaze could lead her people safely from the Frostbacks. When Andraste's armies marched north from their ancestral lands to wage war upon Tevinter, they were guided by the Eye, and it became the Maker's gaze—not the Lady's— leading them to victory. The sword was added later; it is said that the star that marks the point of its blade only appeared in the night sky after Andraste's death. The early Inquisition took Visus as the symbol of their holy calling when they joined the Andrastian faith: the Eye representing both their search for maleficarum and the Maker's judgment upon their actions. When the Inquisition ended and became the Seekers of Truth and the Templar Order, the templars took the sword while the Seekers retained the eye.

 

On another note about the Tree of Peace:

 

-snip-

 

Okay, found this about the war table:

 

 

There are drawings next to the text to it, depicting the war table as a tree trunk, it seems the tree was there (at Skyhold) before it was cut down.

 

-snip-

Isnt Mythal's vallaslin like tree (i've read vines somewhere in the thread before, but it could look also like tree branches)? She was the voice of reason trying to keep the peace according to Solas between.."two factions" but murdered? Solas says her murder was like a final drop that made him decide to raise the Veil, without her keeping the balance/peace the world would come to be destroyed .

 

So "before the first stones of Skyhold were laid, the tree was cut down to serve as a war table". We know that Skyhold (aka where the sky is held back) was Solas' castle originally, and maybe where he raised the Veil. Could it be Skyhold was made after Mythal's murder as Solas started his work on his putting up the Veil? Tree of peace was cut down (Mythal no longer 'living', the living tree sybmol of piece is cut down) made into a massive war table, a symbolism for a war against all factions (massive war ) - aka Solas putting up the Veil, imprisoning both factions after her death.

And Skyhold has a depiction of Mythal when elevated during Cori fight, so again Mythal

[Reznore57]

About the Lady of the Skies, I also tend to think it was Mythal, giving a 'nudge' to history through Andraste. Also about the eye found everywhere in DAI,i would take it as a reference to Mythal too, if she is indeed the lady of the skies.

 

From Visus constellation codex:

Spoiler

Known as "the Watchful Eye" in common parlance, this constellation had great significance to the ancient Alamarri and Cirianne peoples of southern Thedas. The story goes that the Lady of the Skies opened one eye so that the light from her gaze could lead her people safely from the Frostbacks. When Andraste's armies marched north from their ancestral lands to wage war upon Tevinter, they were guided by the Eye, and it became the Maker's gaze—not the Lady's— leading them to victory. The sword was added later; it is said that the star that marks the point of its blade only appeared in the night sky after Andraste's death. The early Inquisition took Visus as the symbol of their holy calling when they joined the Andrastian faith: the Eye representing both their search for maleficarum and the Maker's judgment upon their actions. When the Inquisition ended and became the Seekers of Truth and the Templar Order, the templars took the sword while the Seekers retained the eye.

 

On another note about the Tree of Peace:

 

Isnt Mythal's vallaslin like tree (i've read vines somewhere in the thread before, but it could look also like tree branches)? She was the voice of reason trying to keep the peace according to Solas between.."two factions" but murdered? Solas says her murder was like a final drop that made him decide to raise the Veil, without her keeping the balance/peace the world would come to be destroyed .

 

So "before the first stones of Skyhold were laid, the tree was cut down to serve as a war table". We know that Skyhold (aka where the sky is held back) was Solas' castle originally, and maybe where he raised the Veil. Could it be Skyhold was made after Mythal's murder as Solas started his work on his putting up the Veil? Tree of peace was cut down (Mythal no longer 'living', the living tree sybmol of piece is cut down) made into a massive war table, a symbolism for a war against all factions (massive war ) - aka Solas putting up the Veil, imprisoning both factions after her death.

And Skyhold has a depiction of Mythal when elevated during Cori fight, so again Mythal

One of  Mythal symbol is a dead tree (leafless) although perhaps it was changed when she died .

But yeah it would also work for the war table .

 

The tree symbol is somewhat important for elves , but I don't think so far there's proof it goes beyond pure symbolism.

I mean in  IRL norse mythology , there's Yggdrasil , the world tree.But nothing like this in DA , as far as I can remember.

 

Still there's Mythal symbol (and even in the Origins intro you can see a tree losing its leaveshttps://youtu.be/Q94rdV9M1M4?t=41), the tree cut down at Skyhold as a symbol of peace , the trees statues in the Crossroad , the  Dalish plant a tree in the grave of their dead (Emerald graves) the city elves have the tree of the People :the Vhenadahl http://dragonage.wik..._of_the_People

In this codex , it seems some city elves believes the tree of the people was a symbol of Arlathan.

 

http://dragonage.wik...ahl#cite_note-6

 

A couple of somewhat strange things found in the DA wiki ,in the Primeval Thaig , you could find a "Carved Ring of the Vhenadahl".

The Primeval Thaig is older than the Blight in theory so...the Vhenadahl may have been important for ancient elves ..

 

And also from some tablet found in Mythal temple (WOT2 page 201)

 

Tel'enara bellana bana'vhenadahl

We/it lost eternity or the ruined tree of the People.

 

It sounds a bit funny, no idea if an actual tree was ruined or it's just a metaphor for something else.Mythal murder , a peace treaty being broken if it's like Skyhold and the tree could have been a symbol of peace/ truce ...No idea.

[azarhal]

I don't think Mythal helped Andraste. I also don't think the Lady in the Skies is Mythal, she fit better with Andruil in term of portfolio if there is to fit anything, but I already explained my case on that one earlier in this thread.

 

Flemythal nudged history, true, but she was born about 500 years after Andraste died, before that Mythal was a wisp, a very angry wisp that was looking for vengeance. The Lady of the Skies appear to have been Tyrdda's lover, she was smiling and laughing just prior the First Blight, she was clearly not a wisp a few 700+ years before Flemeth meet wisp-Mythal. Also, from what I remember Flemythal is not a fan of the Chantry in DAO, so I doubt Mythal is responsible for its creation....and Andraste's action were all about creating the Chantry.

 

Andraste, Hessarian and Drakon all did what they did because of visions, each of them lead the way to unit Thedas under a single belief instead of various man-made-gods. The Chantry, at its base, is basically the antithesis of everything the Enuvaris stood for. Whoever sent those visions to get the Chantry created is someone who didn't want Enuvaris v2.0 from happening and Mythal seems to have been mighty fine being a goddess, her issues are not with how the others were, her issues are that she was betrayed...

 

As for the elvhen mosaic at the end of the game, it's the head of Mythal's mosaic, but the Mythal temple we visit in the game has mosaic of all the gods, so it being Mythal's head might not mean much outside of "the Temple of Sacred Ashes used to be Elvhen" (and it was hinted at in DAO with the elvhen architecture).

 

 

[Abelis]

-snip-

 

Spoiler

 

Now, numbers 9, 10 and 11 at first made me think of the first blight i.e. 

 

(9) And I looked up and saw the seven gates of the black city shatter (Magisters break into the Golden City, unleashing the darkness)

 

and Drakon's role in the second bight. (10 and 11)

 

However, given what we were talking about and my speculation about the Old Gods being guardians/seals/gates.

 

What if the parallels of the past are also future events (this is after all supposed to be a prophecy, fake or not).

 

then (9) could pertain to the 7 Old Gods i.e. they are the gates that were and will be shattered. Once all 7 are dead/destroyed, then darkness will cloak both realms. The Black City in The Fade, Darkspawn from the deep roads surfacing in the "unchanging world". I already thought of this (and people have already brought it up in a similar fashion), especially with Solas' plans to destroy the veil, but it hits me harder this time.

 

"Remember the fire, you must pass through it alone to be reforged anew."

 

-snip-

 

"What if the parallels of the past are also future events"

I get the same feeling too  

 

Also these reminded me somewhat of Flemythal 'words of advice' to Hawke in da2:

"Before I go, a word of advice? We stand upon the precipice of change. The world fears the inevitable plummet into the abyss. Watch for that moment..and when it comes, do not hesitate to leap. Its only when you fall that you learn whether you can fly"

[azarhal]

Adding more stuff about the "eye". The Invasion carving has it, back of the head of someone (thread with someone having theories on it). I saw someone suggest it could be Razikal's Augur.

[Abelis]

I don't think Mythal helped Andraste. I also don't think the Lady in the Skies is Mythal, she fit better with Andruil in term of portfolio if there is to fit anything, but I already explained my case on that one earlier in this thread.

 

Flemythal nudged history, true, but she was born about 500 years after Andraste died, before that Mythal was a wisp, a very angry wisp that was looking for vengeance. The Lady of the Skies appear to have been Tyrdda's lover, she was smiling and laughing just prior the First Blight, she was clearly not a wisp a few 700+ years before Flemeth meet wisp-Mythal. Also, from what I remember Flemythal is not a fan of the Chantry in DAO, so I doubt Mythal is responsible for its creation....and Andraste's action were all about creating the Chantry.

 

Andraste, Hessarian and Drakon all did what they did because of visions, each of them lead the way to unit Thedas under a single belief instead of various man-made-gods. The Chantry, at its base, is basically the antithesis of everything the Enuvaris stood for. Whoever sent those visions to get the Chantry created is someone who didn't want Enuvaris v2.0 from happening and Mythal seems to have been mighty fine being a goddess, her issues are not with how the others were, her issues are that she was betrayed...

 

As for the elvhen mosaic at the end of the game, it's the head of Mythal's mosaic, but the Mythal temple we visit in the game has mosaic of all the gods, so it being Mythal's head might not mean much outside of "the Temple of Sacred Ashes used to be Elvhen" (and it was hinted at in DAO with the elvhen architecture).

You have a point there about the Chantry and Mythal wisp (although if just a wisp and not embodied, couldn't she still talk to Andraste through dreams? Does it state somewhere that she was seen in-world, i mean a a material being?)..and why would Andruil be interested in Chantry creation if that is the case?

[Reznore57]

 

Andraste, Hessarian and Drakon all did what they did because of visions, each of them lead the way to unit Thedas under a single belief instead of various man-made-gods. The Chantry, at its base, is basically the antithesis of everything the Enuvaris stood for. Whoever sent those visions to get the Chantry created is someone who didn't want Enuvaris v2.0 from happening and Mythal seems to have been mighty fine being a goddess, her issues are not with how the others were, her issues are that she was betrayed...

 

 

 

Yeah there's a clear agenda behind the Chant of Light , now of course we don't know exactly what Andraste heard since the Chant was changed but it seems it was aimed at preventing people from toying too much with magic.

It's good and bad , because it prevents huge catastrophe , yes the Chantry with their Exalted March and politics caused harm , but they are not responsible for any big catastrophe threatening the whole world.

I mean templars/mages war was bad but mundane , it was a simple war ...people kill each others for a while , someone wins , someone loose or people get tired , life gets back to normal.

 

On the other hand , it created taboos about the fade and Golden City ,and after a thousand years people still don't understand the old gods or the Blight etc...the Blight is fought like a mundane war .Kill the beast , go back to normal life...

People thinks the Maker will come if they sing and He will deal with the Blight.

That's very optimistic and slightly suicidal.

 

But it's like the Old Gods whispering to humankind to go to the Golden City...what was up with that.

If it was the Old gods burried underground , well their plan was seriously bad.

They had a whole empire kissing their claws , Tevinter would have dig them up from underground if they promised candies in return.

Dumat ended up burning and eating his own followers...

[azarhal]

You have a point there about the Chantry and Mythal wisp (although if just a wisp and not embodied, couldn't she still talk to Andraste through dreams? Does it state somewhere that she was seen in-world, i mean a a material being?)..and why would Andruil be interested in Chantry creation if that is the case?

 

If Flemythal comment about Mythal being just a wisp is literal, she probably wasn't thinking much outside of vengeance...and she might have been on "this side" of the Veil as well. Wisp codex:

"A great deal is made of the most powerful demons, those that create abominations and those that have changed the history of Thedas. It is often forgotten that not all demons are such awe-inspiring beings. Some that break through the cracks in the Veil into our world are known as wisps, a sliver of a thought that once was. A wisp is a demon that has lost its power; either it has existed in our world for too long without finding a true host or it has been destroyed—often, so we've found, by other demons. What remains of its mind clings tightly to the one concept that created it—a hatred of all things living.

 

While its ability to target a living creature is limited, these wisps often mindlessly attack when encountered in the Fade. In the living world, they often have been known to maliciously lure the living into dangerous areas, being mistaken for lanterns or other civilized light sources. This does, however, seem to be the very limit of their cunning."

--From the journal of former Senior Enchanter Maleus, once of the Circle of Rivain, declared apostate in 9:20 Dragon Age.

 

 

 

As for Andruil, I don't know why she would create the Chantry  (if she did that at all), but I get the feeling we are missing her side of the story and that it is very important. Then if the Canticle of Trials is about her going to the Void (except the last verse which is post-Chantry creation), well in that case she believed in the Maker.

 

Saying that, she is quite prominent in the lore and even seems to be mentioned by extension a few times (like Cole saying some of the stars are missing...the ones Andruil used to make her spear maybe?). I suspect more is too come, it's not just about Mythal and Solas getting their revenge/fixing their screw up.

 

Yeah there's a clear agenda behind the Chant of Light , now of course we don't know exactly what Andraste heard since the Chant was changed but it seems it was aimed at preventing people from toying too much with magic.

It's good and bad , because it prevents huge catastrophe , yes the Chantry with their Exalted March and politics caused harm , but they are not responsible for any big catastrophe threatening the whole world.

I mean templars/mages war was bad but mundane , it was a simple war ...people kill each others for a while , someone wins , someone loose or people get tired , life gets back to normal.

 

On the other hand , it created taboos about the fade and Golden City ,and after a thousand years people still don't understand the old gods or the Blight etc...the Blight is fought like a mundane war .Kill the beast , go back to normal life...

People thinks the Maker will come if they sing and He will deal with the Blight.

That's very optimistic and slightly suicidal.

 

But it's like the Old Gods whispering to humankind to go to the Golden City...what was up with that.

If it was the Old gods burried underground , well their plan was seriously bad.

They had a whole empire kissing their claws , Tevinter would have dig them up from underground if they promised candies in return.

Dumat ended up burning and eating his own followers...

 

 

Keep in mind, the Chantry of today is not necessairly the Chantry Drakon wanted to create. Cassandra says she is serving the principles on which the Chantry was founded in early DAI, it is clear there is a division between what was planned and what it became.

[Abelis]

@azarhal interesting link about the eye

 

Talking about eyes, now thats a lot of them

Spoiler

from Therinfal reboubt

[myahele]

In a way those things surrounding the that "peacock" thing look like Ancient Elvhen gates/locks:

[myahele]

And while I'm at it, what do you see in this?

 

 

A dragon? I found it in the Frostback Basin and have been meaning to draw over it. Was a quick job, excuse the mess.

 

Oops, edited to add the channel down the middle.

 

Looks like the statue below, but flattened. The statue looks like a stylized Mabari/dog with a long tongue

[Abelis]

@azarhal Yes, its true we are still missing Andruil's story, I hope too we get to learn more, it may change the way we see many things

 

The wisp codex is very interesting! Thanks for noting it.

 

What remains of its mind clings tightly to the one concept that created it

On one hand,  Flemeth says in da2 "Regret is something I know well. Take care not to cling to it. To hold it so close that it poisons your soul. When the time comes for your regrets remember me." Regret could become vengeance revenge (too much regret poisons your soul)? could match the wisp codex.

 

In the living world, they often have been known to maliciously lure the living into dangerous areas, being mistaken for lanterns or other civilized light sources

One the other hand, sounds like a wisp that started the train of events in Andraste's life.

Spoiler

 

 

This does, however, seem to be the very limit of their cunning.

aand you are probably right, cause Mythal seems much more cunning this. Unless that's Senior Enchanter Maleus opinion, that could not apply always.

[azarhal]

@azarhal interesting link about the eye

 

Talking about eyes, now thats a lot of them

Spoiler

from Therinfal reboubt

 

Envy was a wee bit obsessed I think...

 

About the event that happened to Andraste's half-sister, there would be more than one wisps if the lights were that (in DAO, a wisp was a ball of light, basically a will-o-wisp). Also, I found the tale very suspicious by how the would-be-Orlesian (Ciriane) blame what happened on an animist spirit or a blighted beast. I've yet to encounter either of these making fires in game unless they are thrall dragons which is kinda hard to miss. Fireballs, though, makes real good fires. The Orlesian version of the story of Andraste is rather devoid of mages on Andraste's side when a large sub-group of the Alamarri still have shamans even to this day (the Avvars and Chasinds). Even at the time of Calenhad, apostate mages advisor was a thing.

[FernRain]

So far I think I have about 12 gigs of screenshots.

 

O.O

 

Changing subject: can we get some clarity on who the owl statue belongs to? Is it Andruil or Falon'din because I've seen evidence for both. Even Dorian asks which of those two it is when you see the statue in the Emerald Graves .

 

[azarhal]

O.O

 

Changing subject: can we get some clarity on who the owl statue belongs to? Is it Andruil or Falon'din because I've seen evidence for both. Even Dorian asks which of those two it is when you see the statue in the Emerald Graves .

There is two write up in DAI, written by different Keepers, when you get a landmark in front of two owl looking exactly like in your pic. One in Crestwood (see below), but that one mention the Veil which should raise a point against its accuracy. The other one is in the Exalted Plains and is similar to the Lady of the Skies (who the Avvar draw as an owl) guiding the Avvar to Ferelden.

 

Technically, they aren't necessarily contradictory.

The Guide of Falon'Din

Falon'Din sought someone to be his messenger and companion. The wind was swift, but Falon'Din refused to chain it. The People were loyal, but could not live where Falon'Din walked. Then the owl came to him and said, "I am not cowed by darkness. Let me serve you who also has no fear of night." Falon'Din accepted gladly, and took the owl as his servant, who thereafter helped Falon'Din guide the People through the passage of the Veil.

—From Animals of the People, as told by Ellathin, Keeper of Clan Tillahnnen

[Reznore57]

Envy was a wee bit obsessed I think...

 

About the event that happened to Andraste's half-sister, there would be more than one wisps if the lights were that (in DAO, a wisp was a ball of light, basically a will-o-wisp). Also, I found the tale very suspicious by how the would-be-Orlesian (Ciriane) blame what happened on an animist spirit or a blighted beast. I've yet to encounter either of these making fires in game unless they are thrall dragons which is kinda hard to miss. Fireballs, though, makes real good fires. The Orlesian version of the story of Andraste is rather devoid of mages on Andraste's side when a large sub-group of the Alamarri still have shamans even to this day (the Avvars and Chasinds). Even at the time of Calenhad, apostate mages advisor was a thing.

 

I think it was a dragon , what with the whole place burning , and the body being in pieces.

Besides I think Andraste started to hate her half sister mother because she was worshipping the Old Gods , when she was starting to remember things...so perhaps she thought she offered her daughter as a sacrifice to a dragon .

[myahele]

Elgar'nan's burning gaze is probably literal and not an over exagerated myth since a magister who consumed diluted Great Dragon blood (from the Theirin line) can do this:

 

 

It leads me to wonder, if the Evanuris drank dragon blood to the point that they nearly went extinct until Mythal convinced them to stop ... until they discovered Titans and repeated the same mistake.

[azarhal]

@Reznore57 I personally just went with Andraste killed her with a fireball and lied about it later. I have a very low opinion of the populace in Thedas...even their sacred icons.

 

@myahele, good call, we have an example of Enuvaris super powers in action, lol.

 

 

 

Going back to Andraste and Andruil, I didn't play the whole thing but some other people did and someone on Reddit pointed out that in the Last Court webgame there is cult of the Masked Andraste which is described as: a standing stone has been carved into a crude likeness of Andraste. It must be Andraste: it has the rayed crown, the outspread hands. But a bow is carved on her back, and her face is hidden. This is Masked Andraste, the huntress-aspect worshipped only in Serault

 

 

 

[TheBeyond]

I made a theory about the Black city/Elven gods which is no where as indepth as this guys but I would like to know the creator of the thread( or anyone's) opinion on it.

http://forum.bioware...eyond-spoilers/ 

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