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[Shari'El]

@azarhal interesting link about the eye

 

Talking about eyes, now thats a lot of them

Spoiler

from Therinfal reboubt

 

This reminds me of what I do when I try to practice a new art style - draw tons and tons and tons of eyes XD

[Shari'El]

O.O

 

Changing subject: can we get some clarity on who the owl statue belongs to? Is it Andruil or Falon'din because I've seen evidence for both. Even Dorian asks which of those two it is when you see the statue in the Emerald Graves .

 

 

I tend to go with Falon'Din mainly because I don't trust Gisharel and because of the constellation that was believe to represent Falon'Din.

[FernRain]

I tend to go with Falon'Din mainly because I don't trust Gisharel and because of the constellation that was believe to represent Falon'Din.

 

Alright then, I thought if it was Andruil maybe the bird was holding onto a sphere like the sun. Buuuut maybe not.

[Shari'El]

Alright then, I thought if it was Andruil maybe the bird was holding onto a sphere like the sun. Buuuut maybe not.

 

There is a codex saying Andruil has an owl messenger, It's still legit.

Symbolism wise Falon'Din fits because owls are nocturnal and lots of the times symbolize wisdom.

Perhaps there was some sort of cooperation between Andruil and Falon'Din we are unaware of, they both are the only gods Solas speak about with Morrigan and the only two with tribute chambers in the trial section of the Temple of Mythal (with treasures and mounds of golden coins).

 

Perhaps lovers?   Unlikely, but still a funny thought, they were such destructive and horrible people on their own, they would make a power couple from hell 

[Elista]

This reminds me of what I do when I try to practice a new art style - draw tons and tons and tons of eyes XD

What strikes me is the diversity : there is more than one model of the eye. Have to think about it !

Two thoughts :
- Masked Andraste as the Huntress with a bow and her name beginning by Andr... there is obviously a link with Andruil. My head is going to explode lol. Soon I will wonder if Sera is Andraste reborn. Then Quizzy would really be Andraste's chosen
- In the temple of Mythal, the trial involves advancing without doubt, and Flemeth says that you must leap into change. That is exactly the contrary of what Solas does (he wants to restore the past, he lives in regrets and doesn't jump into this new world he as created to embrace change and accompany it). So I think Mythal won't be on his side.

[Reznore57]

. So I think Mythal won't be on his side.

 

If Azarhal still remembers it , the first hint we got about Fen harel being in game was a tiny tiny tiny picture we found on a Bioware office picture.It's probably still somewhere on the Twitter thread I coud maybe find it but anyway...

It was like the DA2 Orsino /Meredith picture , the one in the intro where they're facing each others as ennemies...

But instead they were two shape one looked like Flemeth with a dragon , the other facing was a wolf...

 

I still remember it because I was like "a wolf ...mmm there not a lot of wolves in Thedas mythology..."

And Azarhal went "There's Fen Harel"

And I went "Woaw!!!!!"

 

So yeah ...I'll check if I see it .

 

Edit : Here's the tiny picture , I thought for sure Flemeth and Fen Harel would be some kind of ennemies back then.

[midnight tea]

(pasting my own musings from another thread, since I wonder how many people had the same idea or found it interesting)

 

There seems to be quite a lot of agreement that the Blight might have something to do with the Void. I have to wonder if it's actually true - I mean, there may yet be connection, but perhaps it isn't as direct as we may think it is. It's more like it and the Blight is an analogous side of the coin.

 

I wonder if the Blight itself may not be the Gangue (http://dragonage.wik...he_Gangue_Shade) - "a corruption as old as balance" that rests within the Earth/Stone?

 

In the same measure the Void may be an analogue of that, but on the side of the Fade - perhaps early on it was part of primordial chaos, or the thing let after it, or some sort of counter-balance. It may also be the thing that is described metaphorically as the 'night' in some songs and codexes?

 

It also makes me wonder if this is what may be represented in Solas's Hermit tarot card?

 

Spoiler

 

Also, did anyone notice that the fire in Solas's hand seems to either burn through or destroy the stars linking two symbols? 

 

I wonder if this is supposed to be symbolic of what happened (him, severing the world's connection with Fade by creating the Veil) or what he plans to accomplish (disrupting the established balance)?

[azarhal]

I'll be careful with the Tarot card symbolism, some stuff might just be general, hmm, stuff. For example  Valta 's card is heavy with Andrastian symbolism, but she become a Titan's Pure, a very, very dwarfy thing...unless you want to believe that Andraste was a dwarf and a Titan's Pure too I guess.

 

The Gangue sound more like the Dwarves still having old impulses from when they served the Titans, unstable rocks doesn't sound like the Blight much.

 

I really think the oldest entry we have about the Blight is Malvernis in Legacy. His power sound super similar to what Andruil was said to be doing after her trip to the Void. If that is not the Blight, we have another shitty pestilence thingy to deal with in the setting instead (please be the Blight).

[midnight tea]

I'll be careful with the Tarot card symbolism, some stuff might just be general, hmm, stuff. For example  Valta 's card is heavy with Andrastian symbolism, but she become a Titan's Pure, a very, very dwarfy thing...unless you want to believe that Andraste was a dwarf and a Titan's Pure too I guess.

 

But this is not about tarot symbolism, but the symbolism of whats' specifically on that card.

 

 

The Gangue sound more like the Dwarves still having old impulses from when they served the Titans, unstable rocks doesn't sound like the Blight much.

 

The "corruption as old as balance", suggestion in the codex that the gangue itself - like the Stone - 'has influence' and its comparison to it being like 'the worst of ourselves that we have to carve away' definitely sounds like something more than unstable rocks.

[azarhal]

But this is not about tarot symbolism, but the symbolism of whats' specifically on that card.

 

 

I meant the card, not the tarot part.

[phishface]

The Awiergan Scrolls might be of interest. They were an optional and very obscure sidequest in DA2 - exactly the kind of place the writers like to hide little clues about the bigger picture.

 

The climax of the quest is Pride Unbound where you battle Hybris who is "an ancient personification of pride". We all now know what 'Solas' means.

 

When defeated, Hybris drops a sword called Glandivalis. This ancient sword once belonged to Shartan, who wanted to free the Elves from slavery and find them a homeland. Why would an ancient pride demon have Shartan's sword?

 

There are other links to the ancient elves during the Awiergan Scrolls quests. The loot dropped from the first aspect is the Girdle of the Elders, a belt whose buckle could be "from the time of the ancient elves".

 

The story of the Scrolls themselves seems to tell of 3 possessions, separated by ages. But the possessions are linked:

Of binding a symptom, no vial can contain you.
One of three, separated in prevention.
Unbound, but caged, I must not follow.
Truth will hold you, for that is what truth does.

 

Of binding a symptom, no vial can contain you.
Two of three, three yourself, asunder.
Caged, but still meddling, you will not goad me.
Truth will hold you, or it is no longer true.

 

Of binding a symptom, no vial can contain you.
Three of three, you perverted a man elevated by others.
I will not yield, even as I must turn to face you.
Truth will hold you, or a new truth we will create.

 

 

And these are what lead you to Pride Unbound, or Hybris. So unbinding whatever's in the scrolls unleashes the previously imprisoned or dormant personification of Pride and his sword Glandivalis.

 

I'm not sure what any of this means, but I am sure it means something. There are clear, repeated references to pride, ancient elves, and a campaign to free them from slavery. And Hybris was unbound shortly before the Conclave explosion which begins DAI.

[midnight tea]

I meant the card, not the tarot part.

 

It's rather hard to argue that anything in that symbolism is supposed to be misleading. Also - Valta's card symbolism isn't Andrastian. The symbolism is quite straightforward really.

 

halo around her head - enlightenment

 

fire/eye - open-mindedness, knowledge, chosen one

 

shield (in right hand), sword (in left hand, turned down) - Valta will fight, but mostly to protect. The sword doesn't symbolize anything Andastian, merely that she isn't fond of fighting and will put the sword away if not threatened

[FrankWisdom]

 

It also makes me wonder if this is what may be represented in Solas's Hermit tarot card?

 

Spoiler

 

Also, did anyone notice that the fire in Solas's hand seems to either burn through or destroy the stars linking two symbols? 

 

I wonder if this is supposed to be symbolic of what happened (him, severing the world's connection with Fade by creating the Veil) or what he plans to accomplish (disrupting the established balance)?

 

 

 I saw the fire as Solas severing the connection of the Unchanging World and The Fade with the veil, but it could also symbolize:

 

"As this world burned in the raw chaos, I would have restored the world of my time... The world of elves"

 

I feel like the Dragon Age crew like using parallel's from the past to foreshadow future events, given all the info we can read.

 

 

 

(pasting my own musings from another thread, since I wonder how many people had the same idea or found it interesting)

 

There seems to be quite a lot of agreement that the Blight might have something to do with the Void. I have to wonder if it's actually true - I mean, there may yet be connection, but perhaps it isn't as direct as we may think it is. It's more like it and the Blight is an analogous side of the coin.

 

I wonder if the Blight itself may not be the Gangue (http://dragonage.wik...he_Gangue_Shade) - "a corruption as old as balance" that rests within the Earth/Stone?

 

In the same measure the Void may be an analogue of that, but on the side of the Fade - perhaps early on it was part of primordial chaos, or the thing let after it, or some sort of counter-balance. It may also be the thing that is described metaphorically as the 'night' in some songs and codexes?

 

 

As for the Gangue shade and its implications. It is interesting and reminiscent of the taint.

 

The Stone has a will that surrounds and directs; she guides even when we are willfully blind to her influence. But she is not pure. The Stone bears a corruption as old as balance. For the dwarves to prosper, the gangue--the waste and unstable rock-- must be cut away. But like the Stone, the gangue also has an influence. Each of us must face this, must carve the worst of ourselves away, but the Legion of the Dead bears a unique responsibility. Only the fully adorned of the Legion can face the gangue, can cut into darkness that afflicts the raw Stone. She encircles us, and we must protect her, here where darkness meets light.

 

All of the Bold parts can mirror the blight or the calling or a corrupted Titan, example

 

when we are willfully blind to her influence.

 

sounds like what Solas was warning about if we drank from the Well of Sorrow. We would be acting under Mythal's influence, without even realizing it. It could also be a parallel to Dwarves and Titans, where Dwarves lacked individuality, "witless and soulless"

 

not pure.

 

Blighted, red lyrium. i.e. "we are polluted"

 

The Stone bears a corruption as old as balance.

 

This is probably the most interesting and straightforward reference to the blight. What makes it interesting in my eyes is the "as old as balance" part.

 

Is this referencing the pre-veil era? That would make sense given my beliefs on the matter.

 

But like the Stone, the gangue also has an influence.

 

This is two-fold in my eyes.

Gangue also having influence suggests (if seeing as a parallel for the blight) that the taint not only corrupts but is directed, something uses it to direct. The calling is the means, but not the source, so what is?

 

The second interpretation is of course, the spirit, like "human" nature. The struggle of balance, of the dark and light that resides within all of us.

 

Each of us must face this, must carve the worst of ourselves away

 

This seems to reinforce the second parallel, meaning we have to be better and not let ourselves fall prey to temptation i.e. Pride, sloth etc. I very much doubt they are literally talking about carving pieces of themselves off to stave off infection for example.

 

It could also be a reference to being connected to a Titan. Meaning that the weakest of the fold must be killed severed in order to make the whole stronger. Perhaps that alludes to a time when Titan Dwarves could possibly have been infected by the blight and killed by their kin so as not to be polluted (remember, the Legion of the Dead seem very reminiscent of the Sha-Brytol. Their original purpose perhaps lost to time, as even the first blight post-veil is quite "recent").

 

Only the fully adorned of the Legion can face the gangue, can cut into darkness that afflicts the raw Stone.

 

Same parallel as above.

 

Perhaps it explains the original practice of the Legion through the Sha-Brytol (who are fully adorned with Lyrium sealed armor. Valta speculates a forge-master and a secreted Thaig must be around somewhere. The writers also hint that we might be given the chance to visit such a location in future installments).

 

She encircles us, and we must protect her, here where darkness meets light.

 

Again, parallels of the struggle of balance. Darkness meets light could be a reference again to Titans and the blight, while she encircles us might be the Titan's blood circulating through their veins or literally being connected to the Titan. Valta describes being reconnected to a Titan as "falling into light". So darkness meets light could literally be a struggle between Titan Dwarves and perhaps whatever might have been spreading the taint pre-veil, if this was in fact the case as we've speculated before.

 

"There seems to be quite a lot of agreement that the Blight might have something to do with the Void. I have to wonder if it's actually true - I mean, there may yet be connection, but perhaps it isn't as direct as we may think it is. It's more like it and the Blight is an analogous side of the coin."

 

Check these links out for posts I made on this thread if you want more insight into my theories and beliefs

 

Dwarves & Titans, Role and connection, abridged

 

Faith vs. Blight

 

Dragon blood/Origins of the taint

 

Thoughts on The Fade and its "nature"

 

Red Lyrium vs the Taint

[jthibeault]

 

(pasting my own musings from another thread, since I wonder how many people had the same idea or found it interesting)

 

There seems to be quite a lot of agreement that the Blight might have something to do with the Void. I have to wonder if it's actually true - I mean, there may yet be connection, but perhaps it isn't as direct as we may think it is. It's more like it and the Blight is an analogous side of the coin.

 

I wonder if the Blight itself may not be the Gangue (http://dragonage.wik...he_Gangue_Shade) - "a corruption as old as balance" that rests within the Earth/Stone?

 

In the same measure the Void may be an analogue of that, but on the side of the Fade - perhaps early on it was part of primordial chaos, or the thing let after it, or some sort of counter-balance. It may also be the thing that is described metaphorically as the 'night' in some songs and codexes?

 

It also makes me wonder if this is what may be represented in Solas's Hermit tarot card?

 

Spoiler

 

Also, did anyone notice that the fire in Solas's hand seems to either burn through or destroy the stars linking two symbols? 

 

I wonder if this is supposed to be symbolic of what happened (him, severing the world's connection with Fade by creating the Veil) or what he plans to accomplish (disrupting the established balance)?

 

 Innnnteresting. I don't know much about the specific symbolism of the card but with all our talk of balance I just realized that balance doesn't have to be between just two sides. We've been talking a lot about Titans/lyrium vs The Fade but Solas' card has four things. I know that may not really mean anything but it makes me wonder if maybe there are more than two things in balance here. Titans, Fade, Dragons, Blight? It could be any number of things though as long as it's balanced.

[jthibeault]

In a way those things surrounding the that "peacock" thing look like Ancient Elvhen gates/locks:

Ooooo YAS!
I kept thinking that the spheres having the little black things under them must be significant. They might just be those doors! Good find!

[FernRain]

In a way those things surrounding the that "peacock" thing look like Ancient Elvhen gates/locks:

 
 

Ooooo YAS!
I kept thinking that the spheres having the little black things under them must be significant. They might just be those doors! Good find!

 
What are you looking at here?

Here's a bigger image (found on youtube):
 

[FernRain]

I've been looking through the unique weapons added in Trespasser and found this:

 

Chromatic Greatsword - ..the crafting style is ancient elven, forged before their empire fell. Inside a gem on the hilt is a highly detailed carving of a hawk snatching up a hare.

 

So not only do we get to have a look at an ancient Elven sword, but it also makes a reference to more hawk and hare symbolism (Andruil).

 

If both the hawk and hare are her symbols, why would one snatch up the other? Is it meant to represent some inner turmoil of Andruil? Anyhow, hope this is new info for you all.

[Reznore57]

I've been looking through the unique weapons added in Trespasser and found this:

 

Chromatic Greatsword - ..the crafting style is ancient elven, forged before their empire fell. Inside a gem on the hilt is a highly detailed carving of a hawk snatching up a hare.

 

So not only do we get to have a look at an ancient Elven sword, but it also makes a reference to more hawk and hare symbolism (Andruil).

 

If both the hawk and hare are her symbols, why would one snatch up the other? Is it meant to represent some inner turmoil of Andruil? Anyhow, hope this is new info for you all.

 

Don't know...I thought the hare in Andruil case wasn't a symbol of herself but her victims , I think Morrigan and Solas talks about it in the temple of Mythal.

Andruil was some type of predator , she was a hunter , the hawk in this case.

[FernRain]

Don't know...I thought the hare in Andruil case wasn't a symbol of herself but her victims , I think Morrigan and Solas talks about it in the temple of Mythal.

Andruil was some type of predator , she was a hunter , the hawk in this case.

 

True. Then the hawk and the hare chasing the sun are herself and her followers? .

[Reznore57]

True. Then the hawk and the hare chasing the sun are herself and her followers? .

 

Chasing the sun?

Where have you seen this?

I'm not sure I would call the hare her " followers" , depends if her followers would sacrifice themselves for her ...

I think there's some hints about that somewhere...

But anyway if she was a goddess of sacrifice , her followers could have sacrificed others for her , or again themselves.

 

Pretty dark stuff anyway , and I'm not sure why the elves followed her ...what was the bargain?

I mean people expect something from a sacrifice .

But it seems (if you believe Solas anyway)Andruil was mostly this , a goddess of sacrifice , so ...just this to appease her?

It seems a bit strange to me.

[Elista]

Maybe the sacrifices have something to do with justice. There is a mention somewhere of people making sacrifices to redeem themselves (can't remember where...) and I can totally see Andruil as a "goddess" who would call blood for blood. So her followers would have to make sacrifices when they do something wrong. But I don't think they made little sacrifices... it was probably something like "pay your debt with your own life or be sure I'll take it painfully" (like Sera with this noble who killed her ally...).

Or they used to sacrifice themselves for a greater cause (together we are stronger). Blood magic to help Andruil in her plans as protector of her people when elven lords were at war ?

[FernRain]

The "hawk and a hare chasing the sun" was from the quest leading up to the temple of Dirthamen. It was one of the four glyphs.

 

And Elista, it could be some system like that. The way her followers said "spare us from the time this weapon is thrown" seemed a bit odd. As though she had to do it. I think Mythal had a "be careful what you wish for" deal going on too.. With those who weren't asking for vengeance righteously ending up worse off. I suspect the other Evanuris were the same. I bet Dirthamen's people asked for secrets at the cost of driving them mad when he wasn't there to "take the secrets away".

[azarhal]

Chasing the sun?

Where have you seen this?

 

 

It's a glyph in the Exalted Plains seen using veilfire (Scattered Glyphs quest). I mentioned it a few page back.

 

I always found it funky that the hare would represent Andruil, unless she found them fluffy, adorable and cute. Similar to how Cassandra has little hearts on her armor. You know, a secret romantic.

 

We don't have any hints that Andruil was into blood sacrifices, in fact all we have is her making a weapon and her followers being scared she would kill them if she used it making them her sacrifice (via collateral damage or punishment for throwing the weapon?). It sound more like paying the blood price for your action than killing people to gain more power to me. Also, I don't trust Solas' intention with those words, he hates the Enuvaris outside of Mythal and lies plenty of times to get what he wants in the game.

 

I've seen someone suggest (on Reddit) that Andruil was "pests-control". It fit with her action with Ghilan'nan's monsters, she killed them and then made sure Ghilan'nan would be supervised by integrating her into their little circles. I would even say that it fit with her going after the Forgotten Ones too.

 

This lead me to her becoming crazy because of the Void. This might be a twisted truth. The Void is where the Forgotten Ones resided, you know, the people who keep on saying that the Enuvaris were not gods. What if Andruil came back from there with the same message? That would have caused the other Enuvaris to write propaganda against her (she brought pestilence to her lands) and the story of her howling forgotten things would be her saying the Enuvaris were not gods. Then Mythal went and stole her memories and all her powers...

[jthibeault]

 
 

 
What are you looking at here?

Here's a bigger image (found on youtube):
 

I'm just looking at the similarities between the larger circle/sphere/orb shape being connected to a smaller one underneath it. The door has it and each sphere on the mural has it. They are stylistically different of course so it's not an exactly match, rather abstract in the case of the mural but at this point I'm willing to entertain any number of ideas about them

[jthibeault]

I always thought those "eyes" in the hidden mural looked familiar, now I know why: it's also seen in DAO opening scene talking about when the magisters 1st entered the golden city

 

 

Could the "sun" actually be surrounded (or imprisoned within) the Taint/blight as many have thought?

Where does that bottom image come from? This is a great find! I can definitely see those as feathers now.