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[sniper_arrow]

I don't know about Evil, but according to Solas, the Evanuris banded together to murder Mythal and then from there they did whatever they wanted to do

 

 

 

 

I would not be too surprised if the Kossith (proto Qunari) were one of her experiments. Either Qunari are Ancient Elvhen experiments or Tevinter. Either way, I don't think they're a "naturally occuring" race

 

I thought Ghilly was behind the Qunari, until Corypheus tells your Qunari inquisitor in the final battle that their race is a mistake. I think Tevinter either was behind the creation or knew of their origin based of their early contact with the remaining ancient elves.

[Tielis]

Well, if the theory is true that Sylaise taught them how to reproduce, one twisted version of that would be broodmothers, yes?

 

And I do subscribe to the Elvhen = spirits made flesh theory.  In the Abelas thread we discussed the fact that there are no female sentinels.  The guide in the temple has a female voice, but that is it.  Reused art assets or something else?  You decide.  

[FernRain]

Well, if the theory is true that Sylaise taught them how to reproduce, one twisted version of that would be broodmothers, yes?

 

And I do subscribe to the Elvhen = spirits made flesh theory.  In the Abelas thread we discussed the fact that there are no female sentinels.  The guide in the temple has a female voice, but that is it.  Reused art assets or something else?  You decide.  

 

They might've come from plants (edited post):

 

"They made bodies from the earth, and the earth was afraid.It fought back but they made it forget."

 

"In this place we prepare to hunt the pillars of the earth. Their workers scurry, witless, soulless. This death will be a mercy. We will make the earth blossom with their passing."

For one moment there is a vivid image of two overlapping spheres; unknown flowers bloom inside their centers. Then it fades.

 

"Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!"

For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire.

 

The pages of this book—memory?—describes an immensely tall, immensely graceful vine that flowers with the heat of a copper sunset and has blossoms as large as ponds, petals as long as a man (that's making it obvious now!), and scents puffing out like citron and sky and carrion-death.

The day the last of the vines folds, spent and extinct, the creator of this memory weeps and, after recording the flower's sights and sounds, enters uthenera.

"Treasure this thought, for it was the last of its kind, and so much more than the last of me."

 

Apparently elves were casting a huge spell using lyrium to make something bloom.Why I don't really know ; perhaps to make "bodies from the earth" .

Also weird image of an elf coming out of a flower from the DA artbook.

 

 

TL;DR:

I think the elves cast a huge spell to make something bloom ,using Titans blood.

 

What does the bolded part mean? "Treasure this thought, for it was the last of its kind, and so much more than the last of me." It's oddly written and I can't quite grasp what they're trying to say.
 

And that plant looks.. voidy. Red lyrium in the center? And the "petals as long as a man", surely that's no coincidence of comparison.

[myahele]

The interesting thing about Sylaise is that her way is the way of peace:

 The Vir Atish'an, The Way of Peace, is a harder path to tread, and few are called to hear Sylaise's wisdom. Those who hear that call learn the arts of the healer and the mender.

 

She apparently protects those that are close to the hearth, especially children. I can see the other Evanuris being rather shady:

1. We all know about Falon'din.

2.Dirthamen (if Dalish lore is to be believed) was VERY close to Falon'din, so I can see him following/supporting his brother

3.Ghilan'nain: Mad scientist vibes and we know that her creation uses up animals. Not too far fetched to think she used Elves to make her creatures

4. Andruil: Likes hunting and killing anyone and anything

5. June: All we know is that he crafts, possible that he crafted weapons and some believe that he's a Dwarf

6. Sylaise I am just drawing blanks. Her "crafts" are mostly domestic like weaving, pottery, etc. She's a healer and people seems to *willingly* serve her. I would even say she has the making of becoming Mythal's successor.

[FrankWisdom]

And that plant looks.. voidy. Red lyrium in the center? And the "petals as long as a man", surely that's no coincidence of comparison.

 

 

 

"Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!"

For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire.

[FernRain]

Totally different tangent, we were talking about the gates of Segrummar:
 

If the sigil is the Deep Roads we traverse in descent, how does one 'carve a mark'? Did this Dwarf have to dig out some new passages? Is it something to do with making the lyrium flow through the stone in certain channels? I wonder if that uncharted abyss card on the Deep Roads war table is a sigil? Or any of the similar looking ones Valta finds and reads.

 

Good question, plus, if the sigil can only be seen from the Fade how does one know where to "carve a mark"?
How can a dwarf even enter the Fade to look at the sigil?
Perhaps the "locked barriers" are the gates and their placement disrupts the flow of the sigil? But then how are they connected to said marks?

 
Just wanted to update and post the card:
 

 
The gates when mapped out, ignore the green dots (reddit post):

Spoiler

 

And the runes Valta reads:

Spoiler

 

 

 

[FernRain]

"Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!"

For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire.

 

You're right Frank it does look like fire now that I see it. Nice.

[Ariris Lavellan]

I am so sorry if this covered already, but there is so much here it could have gotten buried. In the initial post in this thread, one of the things talked about is the theory that Mythal summoned or called Solas to help her -- he ended up bound to her and THIS is how he became Fen'Harel. The title of wolf was meant more as dog, or canine. Mythal's dog.

He said that he "was Solas first, Fen'Harel came later."

Could Solas have been a wisdom spirit summoned and bound by Mythal? If so... could that be part of the reason he gets so deeply upset about the spirit in his personal quest? His biggest issue is clearly forcing an entity to act outside of it's purpose, thus corrupting it.

Was Solas a spirit, "corrupted" into a demon, the Dread Wolf?

He was proud to serve Mythal ("A title I foolishly wore as pride, inspiring hope in my friends and fear in my enemies") in the beginning-- but now he has realized he is just a servant like he so detests? He has got to see the hypocrisy here.

He is affectionate to her when they meet. This could be a display of fierce loyalty (At first I thought they were lovers, ala Andraste and Shartan) but if you watch the scene thinking of Solas as a "guard dog," it seems more appropriate. The way she touches him and his reaction-- it's affectionate but almost resentful. Or maybe it could be a bit of Stockholm syndrome.

Also, looking at him through this lens of "loyal without a choice guard dog" makes his character make a lot more sense, IMO. This even fits the Solas/Shartan/Flemeth/Andraste theory.

TLDR version - is Solas a wisdom spirit summoned and bound by Mythal? Does this explain his explosive reaction on his personal quest? And if so, is that why he was "Solas first" and became the Dread Wolf (Mythal's dog?)

[FrankWisdom]

I am so sorry if this covered already, but there is so much here it could have gotten buried. In the initial post in this thread, one of the things talked about is the theory that Mythal summoned or called Solas to help her -- he ended up bound to her and THIS is how he became Fen'Harel. The title of wolf was meant more as dog, or canine. Mythal's dog.

He said that he "was Solas first, Fen'Harel came later."

Could Solas have been a wisdom spirit summoned and bound by Mythal? If so... could that be part of the reason he gets so deeply upset about the spirit in his personal quest? His biggest issue is clearly forcing an entity to act outside of it's purpose, thus corrupting it.

Was Solas a spirit, "corrupted" into a demon, the Dread Wolf?

He was proud to serve Mythal ("A title I foolishly wore as pride, inspiring hope in my friends and fear in my enemies") in the beginning-- but now he has realized he is just a servant like he so detests? He has got to see the hypocrisy here.

He is affectionate to her when they meet. This could be a display of fierce loyalty (At first I thought they were lovers, ala Andraste and Shartan) but if you watch the scene thinking of Solas as a "guard dog," it seems more appropriate. The way she touches him and his reaction-- it's affectionate but almost resentful. Or maybe it could be a bit of Stockholm syndrome.

Also, looking at him through this lens of "loyal without a choice guard dog" makes his character make a lot more sense, IMO. This even fits the Solas/Shartan/Flemeth/Andraste theory.

TLDR version - is Solas a wisdom spirit summoned and bound by Mythal? Does this explain his explosive reaction on his personal quest? And if so, is that why he was "Solas first" and became the Dread Wolf (Mythal's dog?)

 

This has been discussed before and since you messaged me personally I'll just leave you with an analogy I found interesting (since you've read my OP and pretty much know my thoughts on the subject).

 

Also the Evanuris (based on Solas' on admissions) seem to be the ones to have used Fen'Harel as a slight or slur regarding Solas' relationship with Mythal (as her protector/"guard dog").

 

"A title I foolishly wore as pride, inspiring hope in my friends and fear in my enemies"

 

Solas never actually says he foolishly wore the title with pride. Here are the actual quotes.

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Now here is the analogy I found interesting that I mentioned up above

 

Codex entry: Andraste's Mabari

And there's Andraste's mabari (Mythal's Fen'Harel)
By the Holy Prophet's side.
In the fight against Tevinter, (slavery, the Evanuris)
That dog would never hide.
They say the Maker sent him special, (Fen'Harel became revered as a god and must have been special in the eyes of Mythal)
Always loyal, without pride, (Solas was loyal but prideful)
So he could be the sworn companion (Of Mythal)
Of the Maker's Holy Bride.

Oh, that dog, he guards Andraste (He guards Mythal)
Without arrogance or fear, (Solas is arrogant and was plagued with fear of what would happen if the Evanuris were left unchecked)
Only asking of his mistress
Just a scratch behind the ears.
But then old Maf'rath gets to plotting,
Tries to lure that dog away.
But even as they trap the Prophet, (but even as they Kill Mythal, freeing him of her influence)
Her mabari never strays. (Solas stays true to her convictions, her goals)

 

I'm not implying Andraste was Mythal here by the way, I just find the parallels interesting in regards to the relationship between Mythal and Solas.

 

http://dragonage.wik...draste's_Mabari

[Ariris Lavellan]

This has been discussed before and since you messaged me personally I'll just leave you with an analogy I found interesting (since you've read my OP and pretty much know my thoughts on the subject).

 

Also the Evanuris (based on Solas' on admissions) seem to be the ones to have used Fen'Harel as a slight or slur regarding Solas' relationship with Mythal (as her protector/"guard dog").

 

"A title I foolishly wore as pride, inspiring hope in my friends and fear in my enemies"

 

Solas never actually says he foolishly wore the title with pride. Here are the actual quotes.

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Now here is the analogy I found interesting that I mentioned up above

 

Codex entry: Andraste's Mabari

And there's Andraste's mabari (Mythal's Fen'Harel)
By the Holy Prophet's side.
In the fight against Tevinter, (slavery, the Evanuris)
That dog would never hide.
They say the Maker sent him special, (Fen'Harel became revered as a god and must have been special in the eyes of Mythal)
Always loyal, without pride, (Solas was loyal but prideful)
So he could be the sworn companion (Of Mythal)
Of the Maker's Holy Bride.

Oh, that dog, he guards Andraste (He guards Mythal)
Without arrogance or fear, (Solas is arrogant and was plagued with fear of what would happen if the Evanuris were left unchecked)
Only asking of his mistress
Just a scratch behind the ears.
But then old Maf'rath gets to plotting,
Tries to lure that dog away.
But even as they trap the Prophet, (but even as they Kill Mythal, freeing him of her influence)
Her mabari never strays. (Solas stays true to her convictions, her goals)

 

I'm not implying Andraste was Mythal here by the way, I just find the parallels interesting in regards to the relationship between Mythal and Solas.

 

http://dragonage.wik...draste's_Mabari

 

 

I am sorry to clutter your thread with things already discussed-- I am not good at using forums. So thank you for replying. 

 

If the Andraste's Mabari thing here is relevant, wouldn't they be referring to Shartan and thus pointing more to Solas also being Shartan? Or an example of the Chantry / Elvhen lore being the same but interpreted differently?  Anyway. What I was really curious about is if you thought Solas was a wisdom spirit that was summoned/corrupted. Again, sorry for being a pain about it. And thanks for responding.  

[FrankWisdom]

I am sorry to clutter your thread with things already discussed-- I am not good at using forums. So thank you for replying. 

 

If the Andraste's Mabari thing here is relevant, wouldn't they be referring to Shartan and thus pointing more to Solas also being Shartan? Or an example of the Chantry / Elvhen lore being the same but interpreted differently?  Anyway. What I was really curious about is if you thought Solas was a wisdom spirit that was summoned/corrupted. Again, sorry for being a pain about it. And thanks for responding.  

 

You're not a pain and you're in no way "cluttering" "my" thread. This is our thread and you are free to post any subject you wish to discuss as long as your responses are respectful to others then there is no problem.

 

I don't see Solas as being Shartan based on Andraste's Mabari codex. Parallels don't mean reenactments of past events. There are parallels between Shartan and Solas, but just because the Andraste's Mabari codex is during that era, it doesn't necessarily have to reference Shartan i.e. the Mabari doesn't have to be a metaphorical representation of Shartan, especially when given context, it doesn't fit. Shartan was never seen as Andraste's guard dog but rather as an equal and a brother in arms (as well as a lover to some).

 

The relevance could be as simple as the writers using this codex as an analogy for the Solas/Mythal relationship (as a reward to those who pay attention to detail). It might be nothing, so take it how you will, I just personally see parallels and find them interesting.

 

As for Solas being a spirit of Wisdom who was turned into a "Pride" demon through Mythal's own desires and goals... Yes, I believe for the moment that this was most likely the case, though because he took form, the implications aren't the same as they would have been post-veil. Remember that spirits pre-veil interacted very differently with the "unchanging world" than they do now. a symbiosis was established (given the information we learned in the Vir Dirthara codices). There wasn't any "shock" or "disorientation" when spirits would appear in the material world, which is why I believe the Elvhen people were able to adapt and change from spirits to something more, which eventually lead them to take "form".

 

The absence of the veil made this possible and also made them able to retain their capabilities and original forms i.e. they could switch freely between spirit form and physical form, which was part of their nature, much like their immortality was tied to the Fade. I believe the image of the "dread wolf" we see in the Murals that Solas paints are a representation of what he had become and most likely his "demon/spirit form pre-veil (not just a metaphorical representation of his title). I think this is where the "eyes" come into play, which mirror what is seen in Pride demons who take "form" outside of the fade.

[myahele]

I don't think Solas was Shartan since Solas awoke 1 year prior to DAI. At most, I can see Shartan being one Fen'harels colleague (like Fellasan) and helped with Andraste's rebellion and as well as teach those elves as much as Ancient Elvhen history as possible. Just like how the Andrastians kept/hid some of Andraste's teaching, the Dalish could've done the same thing too with "Shartan" teachings of the Ancient Elvhen.

 

Also, that picture of the "elf" popping out of the flower reminds me of the Lady of the Forest. I remember David Gaider (or was it someone else) saying that there exists multiple Ladies of the Forests (spriggans?) I just wish I had that quote. What we see in that picture might just be how they're created?

[phishface]

I don't think Solas was Shartan since Solas awoke 1 year prior to DAI.

 

Isn't that only according to Solas himself? Perhaps the writers haven't yet decided on all these connections (if so, this topic is a gold mine for them), but if they want to make the Solas/Shartan connection, it would be easy because:

 

1. Solas isn't exactly known for being reliable or truthful; and

 

2. It would be easy to write Solas as explaining 'awoke' as being some kind of mystical elfy 'awakening', instead of him literally waking up. After all, what exactly was this sleep that lasted hundreds of years?

[myahele]

True, we know that during Masked Empire, Felassan was speaking with Solas in the Fade so he may have been "awake" in the Fade which more or less ties in with Fen'harel wandering the Fade and eating/killing people there based on Dalish Lore.

 

Though I don't think that he was around during Andraste's time simply because of Solas MO of destroying the veil. Elves lost their immortality way before their enslavement by Tevinter. Thedosians back then are just as "tranquil" as the Thedosians that Solas barely consider as people. 

[Reznore57]

Thing is what we know of Shartan and what we know of Solas don't work together.

Solas sees people from current Thedas as brain dead , he only joined the Inquisition because Corypheus had his orb and was a threat he wasn't strong enough to deal with on his own.

His main goal was never to help people of current Thedas , so if you picture Solas as Shartan , you need to imagine something else than saving slaves he doesn't even think are worth saving.

[phishface]

Thing is what we know of Shartan and what we know of Solas don't work together.

Solas sees people from current Thedas as brain dead , he only joined the Inquisition because Corypheus had his orb and was a threat he wasn't strong enough to deal with on his own.

His main goal was never to help people of current Thedas , so if you picture Solas as Shartan , you need to imagine something else than saving slaves he doesn't even think are worth saving.

 

True, we know that during Masked Empire, Felassan was speaking with Solas in the Fade so he may have been "awake" in the Fade which more or less ties in with Fen'harel wandering the Fade and eating/killing people there based on Dalish Lore.

 

Though I don't think that he was around during Andraste's time simply because of Solas MO of destroying the veil. Elves lost their immortality way before their enslavement by Tevinter. Thedosians back then are just as "tranquil" as the Thedosians that Solas barely consider as people. 

 

Yep, all good points. but I do think there's wiggle room if they need it. Solas is playing a long game. Him freeing the elves as Shartan could be portrayed as laying the foundations of his Elven KGB, or as an early attempt at freeing the elves in a way that didn't require the destruction of the world.

 

Alternatively, they could write it as the straw that broke the camel's back: Solas/Shartan freed the elves, they got the Dales, and then it all went horribly wrong. Again. He might conclude from this that a more radical solution is called for.

 

My point is that they've set it up so that there are several options, all of which would make some kind of sense.

[azarhal]

 

 

Also, that picture of the "elf" popping out of the flower reminds me of the Lady of the Forest. I remember David Gaider (or was it someone else) saying that there exists multiple Ladies of the Forests (spriggans?) I just wish I had that quote. What we see in that picture might just be how they're created?

 

The term is dryads. There is stories somewhere that talks about the Arbor Wilds being scary because they have them and I do believe that image is linked to dryads too.

 

Also, I could see Andruil make a real good one too, she's is the most "goddess of nature" of the group anyway.

[FernRain]

Also, that picture of the "elf" popping out of the flower reminds me of the Lady of the Forest. I remember David Gaider (or was it someone else) saying that there exists multiple Ladies of the Forests (spriggans?) I just wish I had that quote. What we see in that picture might just be how they're created?

 

 

The term is dryads. There is stories somewhere that talks about the Arbor Wilds being scary because they have them and I do believe that image is linked to dryads too.

 

Also, I could see Andruil make a real good one too, she's is the most "goddess of nature" of the group anyway.

 

Here's another picture from the DA art book, what do you think this is? The dryard talk reminded me of it:

 

[sniper_arrow]

Here's another picture from the DA art book, what do you think this is? The dryard talk reminded me of it:

 

 

One of Ghilly's creations? 

[myahele]

Looks like a Leshen to me:

Spoiler

It's probably another forest spirit/dwell similar to Dryads/ Lady of the Forest. I am guessing they're probably more violent/territorial.

 

Ghili'nain's creation probably seeing that we know she shares "schematics" on how to create her beasts to people.

[FernRain]

Considering how many changes the halla have gone through it wouldn't surprise me to see more (six legs, wings).

[FernRain]

Saw this and wondered if he was talking about Mythal:

Spoiler

[Shari'El]

Saw this and wondered if he was talking about Mythal:

Spoiler

 

Post the other things you posted in the Solas thread, the one about the blood mage healer was interesting.

[FernRain]

Craaaap right when I've gone to bed and am now on the tablet which refuses to paste links!

 

Okay okay  *manually types out link*:

 

 

So, is it a spirit using blood magic? Sylaise was a healer. Oh and remember the elvhen saying!? "The healer has the bloodiest hands" eh, eh? .

[azarhal]

Sylaise being a blood mage healer would fit with the rest of the gang.

 

Although, I believe a blood mage healer being a thing in Tevinter was hinted at: You quote the example of the lovers Crescens and Seraphinian. Yes Seraphinian offered his own blood to cure Crescens of her wasting disease (he died though, but I doubt he was the only one).