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[FernRain]

Reposting what I have to say:

 

 
 

 

(Second image) Is it Ghilan'nain betraying Dirthamen? It reminds me of the bloodied statue in the fade before Mythal and Urthemiel (the old god of beauty), though this one is being stabbed from the front rather than the back. I think Dirthamen and Ghilan'nain had "something" together because of: that other Ferelden art of the bear holding the horned figure; the codex about Falon'din, his brother and the deer (halla?); the codex about the sinner belonging to Dirthamen and taking wings at the urging of Ghilan'nain. Surely he didn't die from this stabbing though because he had to be locked away like the rest of the Evanuris. That stab mark also has a green circle around it, something to do with the fade? He's said to have hung out with his brother there in the Dalish codex (for what little that's worth).

 

The first one reminds me of the clothing Solas wears in his romance card. What is in his hand? It looks like there is a moon behind his head.

[LatteRene]

As far as the dragon image, it could also be a picture of grey wardens led by Garahel riding griffons into the battle against the archdemon.

[Shari'El]

As far as the dragon image, it could also be a picture of grey wardens led by Garahel riding griffons into the battle against the archdemon.

 

That actually... makes a lot of sense, the only thing that's bothering me is the fact there are 7 figures there and that's usually symbolizes something, but we could be wrong on that part.

 

Reposting what I have to say:

 

(Second image) Is it Ghilan'nain betraying Dirthamen? It reminds me of the bloodied statue in the fade before Mythal and Urthemiel (the old god of beauty), though this one is being stabbed from the front rather than the back. I think Dirthamen and Ghilan'nain had "something" together because of: that other Ferelden art of the bear holding the horned figure; the codex about Falon'din, his brother and the deer (halla?); the codex about the sinner belonging to Dirthamen and taking wings at the urging of Ghilan'nain. Surely he didn't die from this stabbing though because he had to be locked away like the rest of the Evanuris. That stab mark also has a green circle around it, something to do with the fade? He's said to have hung out with his brother there in the Dalish codex (for what little that's worth).

 

The first one reminds me of the clothing Solas wears in his romance card. What is in his hand? It looks like there is a moon behind his head.

 

Probably means nothing but one of the trials in Temple of Mythal is split to two (but is one path), the first half is filled with owl statues (Falon'Din) and the second is filled with hart statues (Ghilan'nain).

 

Anyhow, since the card doesn't depict someone in pain and since there is a.. Fade hole.. in the middle of the male figure, perhaps the sword is metaphorical for a betrayer (and not a betray..ee). It may be far fetched but since we don't see blood or physical suffering from the figure's way I thought maybe the sword is there to represent a will to betray. So if we go with another angle (like LatteRene did), it may be Mafertah and Andraste? I'm not too certain in that as well since the male character doesn't look Avvarian at all.

 

Also, the three swords tarot shows a heart being pierced by swords, in this card we see only one sword but the symbolism may still apply.

Upright: Painful separation, sorrow heartbreak, grief, rejection.

 

Notice that the Fade.. hole.. is the focal point of the card, it's perfectly centered and there are even lines leading to it, the sword in the Fade hole is the story the card is meant to tell, we've just yet to fully understand what it means.

 

First image has little dancing squids in the bottom, just sayin'.

 

Edit: it does fit with how Maferath looks here:

Spoiler

[FernRain]

Shari it says they are "Ferelden" art so yeah it could be Andraste and her husband.
 
If it is a gryphon, what's it doing with those demon eyes? And I looked up pictures of gryphons in DA but couldn't find any with a split tongue.
 
What do you think about this image?
 

 

It's a bit nondescript, I can't tell if they're elves. He's holding something. Not sure if he's also holding her. Is she wearing a hood or is that her hair? And it looks like there are bell flowers at the bottom .

[Shari'El]

Shari it says they are "Ferelden" art so yeah it could be Andraste and her husband.
 
If it is a gryphon, what's it doing with those demon eyes? And I looked up pictures of gryphons in DA but couldn't find any with a split tongue.
 
What do you think about this image?
 

 

It's a bit nondescript, I can't tell if they're elves. He's holding something. Not sure if he's also holding her. Is she wearing a hood or is that her hair? And it looks like there are bell flowers at the bottom .

 

If the first image depicts the blight, then the creature in the middle would be an archdemon, surrounded by griffons.

It's still weird there is one entity in the top right corner, it's also weird that there are 7 entities in total.

 

 I'm not entirely sure what to make of the image you posted though, the woman could be an elf, her ears are hidden but it's easy to imagine their continuation to be pointy, the man is wearing a cape so we can't be certain. Neither has distinct elven features (save for the high cheekbones on the woman, but that could exist in humans too), they are quite nondescript indeed. The man looks old somehow, I'm not sure why, it's possibly the brush strokes.

They are very close physically, he might be holding her, it seems like she leans into him so it works.

Seeing the man is wearing a cape over fancy clothes perhaps this image depicts an affair, the background could indicate a hushed sort of romance, the type in which the couple meet in the middle of the night, the blue orb behind could be the moon or the starry sky, the golden background looks like lights from windows.

Maybe Maric and Fiona? If that's the case perhaps the male is holding an amulet?

[Elista]

Shari it says they are "Ferelden" art so yeah it could be Andraste and her husband.

If it is a gryphon, what's it doing with those demon eyes? And I looked up pictures of gryphons in DA but couldn't find any with a split tongue.

What do you think about this image?


It's a bit nondescript, I can't tell if they're elves. He's holding something. Not sure if he's also holding her. Is she wearing a hood or is that her hair? And it looks like there are bell flowers at the bottom .

Maybe totally irrelevant but... it makes me think to Calpernia and her lover (Marius ?) from the short story Paying the Ferryman. Their outfit is dull and dark, like a slave uniform. And they met at night. And the woman really has something of Calpernia, to my eyes.^^

[FernRain]

If the first image depicts the blight, then the creature in the middle would be an archdemon, surrounded by griffons.

 

Ohhhhh I see now! How many Old Gods were left at that point? Or maybe it was the number of people in their team at the time.

 

And wow you managed to extract a lot more interesting stuff from that than I did . Nice work! Is there anything in the lore about bellflowers?

 

Elista:

 

Yeah she does a bit doesn't she? I haven't heard of the ferryman story. I'll have to look it up.

[Ava Grey]

Ohhhhh I see now! How many Old Gods were left at that point? Or maybe it was the number of people in their team at the time.

 

And wow you managed to extract a lot more interesting stuff from that than I did . Nice work! Is there anything in the lore about bellflowers?

 

Elista:

 

Yeah she does a bit doesn't she? I haven't heard of the ferryman story. I'll have to look it up.

The bolded, they remind me of Crystal Grace.

 

Great thread btw, I do love me some good, old fashioned theory-crafting.

[LatteRene]

If the dragon art was meant to be Garahel with griffons, that doesn't mean it couldn't have also been a depiction of the evanuris. Remember the tile mosaics Gatsi studies had been appropriated and repurposed by their new owners? The same could apply here with the the painting's original subjects (evanuris) being reinterpreted by new owners to depict the Wardens.

[Shari'El]

Ohhhhh I see now! How many Old Gods were left at that point? Or maybe it was the number of people in their team at the time.

 

And wow you managed to extract a lot more interesting stuff from that than I did . Nice work! Is there anything in the lore about bellflowers?

 

Elista:

 

Yeah she does a bit doesn't she? I haven't heard of the ferryman story. I'll have to look it up.

 

Ava Grey said something about Crystal Grace, I think that might be it.

 

The flowers of the crystal grace plant are appreciated for their beauty as well as their medicinal value. Pale blue and shaped like delicate crystal bells, the flowers should almost tinkle in the breeze. In fact, I have heard a tale of an Orlesian lady who ordered crystal grace to be planted all over her bower and then hired a mage from the White Spire to enchant them to do just that. Eventually, she grew tired of the chiming and set fire to her lawn in a fit of pique.

 

Let us learn from this. These plants were created exactly as our Maker intended, and our interference rarely improves them.

 

—An excerpt from The Botanical Compendium, by Ines Arancia, botanist

 

After searching the DA wiki I'm pretty certain it's the only relevant piece of lore related to bells.

If you recall, they are quite rare and are used in the Ardent Blossom quest.

In DAI they are mainly used for tonic upgrades.

[sniper_arrow]

Shari it says they are "Ferelden" art so yeah it could be Andraste and her husband.
 
If it is a gryphon, what's it doing with those demon eyes? And I looked up pictures of gryphons in DA but couldn't find any with a split tongue.
 
What do you think about this image?
 

 

It's a bit nondescript, I can't tell if they're elves. He's holding something. Not sure if he's also holding her. Is she wearing a hood or is that her hair? And it looks like there are bell flowers at the bottom .

 

Theory # 1 - That may be Elgar'nan and Mythal during their happier times.

 

Theory # 2 - Mythal and Fenharel, having an affair behind Elgar'nan's back (this would assume Mythal and Elgar'nan were married before)

 

Theory # 3 - Mythal and Fenharel again. This time, from his POV, this is how he views Mythal (as a loving mother whom he really cares for). No affair.

[FernRain]

I've been meaning to ask about this design found on some Dwarven chairs, this one in a Dwarven ruin in the Hissing Wastes:
 

 

It looks like vines to me, coming out of fire and a sun at the bottom. They're reaching up for something? What do you guys think? .

[LilithMB]

Not sure if this is the right thread but I had a thought, and OMG AF I cant be bothered looking through all the pages to see if its a common theory or not.

So sorry if Im just repeating what people already say.

But I have a theory on why modern elves are now mortal. Solas said the veil is the reason the elves are dying so obvs thats why. But is it because when you sleep your spirit is attracted to the fade and "sunders itself" from your body to go for a frolic? So everytime you sleep you are ageing your physical self. If the veil was not there your spirit would not need to wander and be separated from you. Spirits are immortal and elves are more connected to spirits than anything (they are born of spirits) so Im pretty sure that is another reason why Solas feels that modern elves are tranquil and not of his people to begin with? They are disconnected with there spirits. Modern elves are really exposed to having there spirits corrupted by it wandering around away from you and not having an anchor.

So its why when you are asleep it is easy for the bad spirits to possess you. Because your own spirit has left you empty and your body is up for the taking. So right now Solas is mortal. (Could he corrupt himself seeing as he's sundered and go full on Dread Wolf Pride Demon if you dont show him compassion/love/worth in this world/friendship) He might be compromised? Vulnerable. And Patrick said in Lavellan romance that if he gave it all up for her he would betray himself....become someone he's not?? Change? Forget himself? He's already forgotten himself if we go by what Cole says in Trespasser. Patrick probably didnt mean that in a tricky way but he IS a BioWare writer, so.

This would explain why he is determined to do it all now and why he seems in a rush to remove the veil. He's dying. Its now or never to save those trapped and those in thedas.

Maybe Zathrian in Origins bound his own spirit to his body and thats how he extended his life? I cant remember if it was explained how he did it but I dont think he said anything so just another theory.

Maybe thats why Dwarfs have that inbuilt fear of leaving underground and falling up? There souls are.....dirt lol so they go back to the stone.

I honestly dont know much about dwarves I didnt play descent yet and only know a little about Titans. (so thats why dwarfs can be golems is it?)

But seeing as lyrium is blighted Im seriously worried for thedas and the dwarves. Could blighted lyrium corrupt the dwarves (song) and turn them strange soon? If the earth is blighted then the world goes to sh*t soon anyway. Lyrium is conneted to the fade so I think the veil is coming down beause it has to in DA4. 

Also sorry I said corrupted 29 times but whatever

[Elista]

Zathrian was bound to the curse he unleashed. As long as the curse exists, he can't die. I think it's because he is bound to a spirit (Lady of the forest). Remember, Wynne couldn't die until she gave up her guardian spirit. Spirits are immortal. If elves were initially spirits that took a physical form, or regular people mingling with spirits like Anders with Justice, it can explain why they were immortal. The Veil broke something in them, cut them from their immortal part. Maybe when they were getting old they just jumped into another fresh body like Flemythal until they got tired of the physical world and entered uthenera.

Oh my. I just realized that Anders may very well be alive even if killed. Maybe we'll see him again.

[Shari'El]

I've been meaning to ask about this design found on some Dwarven chairs, this one in a Dwarven ruin in the Hissing Wastes:
 

 

It looks like vines to me, coming out of fire and a sun at the bottom. They're reaching up for something? What do you guys think? .

 

Hmmm, it looks similar to the flower you can see an elf(?) pops up from (in DAI art book).

 

I kind of wonder... We know elves got functioning.. reproduction... organs... and I'm certain not all of the ancient elves came from spirits.

You probably know one of the things parents tell their children (when they deem them not old enough for the truth) when they ask "where do babies come from?" is that babies come from cabbage patches, are those flowers a weird manifestation of that in DA world? Do spirits that decide to manifest use one of those giant flowers to build themselves bodies? Like a cocoon, or a.. cabbage.

 

-snip-

 

That's pretty much what I believe in as well 

I do think, however, that sleeping is not what causes the body to age, and that ancient elves kept themselves alive by going to uthenera. Regular sleeping does not equate uthenera so the body still ages (like when they are awake). Since spirits are timeless, traveling the Fade (being connected to your spirit form) and providing the body with Fade substance keeps the elves from aging.

I think eternal life was unique to elves (and maybe even dwarves, but for different reasons [lyrium kept the flowers of Ardent Blossom alive, perhaps when they were connected to the titans they didn't age]), who came originally from spirits and that other races were not as connected and thus aged. Before the Veil the spirits of the elves existed in same "place" as their body (though it was free to roam the Fade when the body was resting) and that's what gave them eternal life. 

In current Thedas mages are the only ones who retain strong enough connection with their spirits to be able to travel the Fade as well as do magic.

Lastly I, too, think Solas might be aging (perhaps at a slower rate because he is a dreamer) and that's part of the reason he reiterates they are running out of time etc. He probably knew beforehand that once he wakes up from uthenera he will start dying and that's why he bothered deploying agents while still in the Fade.

[FernRain]

But why would dwarves care enough about Elven origins to make a carving out of it? I mean, I suppose they used their lyrium..

 

If the sun is at the bottom (it's a bit hard to see), then what's the oval at the top? It kiiiind of resembles a face.. Mythal's? Eh I don't know.

[Shari'El]

But why would dwarves care enough about Elven origins to make a carving out of it? I mean, I suppose they used their lyrium..

 

If the sun is at the bottom (it's a bit hard to see), then what's the oval at the top? It kiiiind of resembles a face.. Mythal's? Eh I don't know.

 

That's true, I wasn't actually thinking about that when I wrote that post -cough-

The fact they care at all about vines and vegetation is weird to me...

I think understanding this requires us to know how old is this chair. Perhaps it has something to do with the titans...?

It does remind me of the whole "sphere of fire enveloped by green vines" deal.

 

-Places tinfoil hat on head-

Warning: this is the part where I let my mind do massive logic leaps and come up with things I don't believe in myself   

 

Okay, so how about this?

Titans created the dwarves, right? Maybe they "grew" them inside their bodies, where there are clouds, vegetation and light, a bit like a greenhouse. They wanted their children to be organic, they couldn't be made from stone, so they created them from flowers. Like, if titans are a tree, its' sap is lyrium and the dwarves are its' fruits. When the spirits wanted to make themselves bodies they used the titans invention to create bodies, the first elves.

Time passes, the titans are unhappy with the abuse of the elves and start preventing spirits from manifesting as elves, the elves in turn wage war against the titans, win, mine their bodies for lyrium and... something else.. Bodies? Body growing plants? Whatever? 

 

TL;DR nonsense 

[FernRain]

That was hardly tin-hatting! Sounded good to me .

 

The "something else" bothers me, what else is in a titan other than lyrium, earth and upside down sky? Some sort of pre-blight power? Assuming the blight was once something pure.

 

And hey what if that oval is the moon that Mythal put up to reflect the sun? Moons aren't oval though.. a portal? Guh .

 

So many of my ideas are just brain-flailing.. Sorry I don't have anything more substantial .

[Reznore57]

There's also the rose Leliana saw in dreams :

 

http://dragonage.wik...rren_Branch.PNG

 

You can see this picture in Valence ,the clue related to it is "Always remember that faith sprung from a barren branch."

 

Anyway it could just be metaphor ...About the Titans , their role doesn't seem related to make things "grow" , they mostly take care of the earth .

It seems the elves wanted to make something grow by killing them , make the earth "bloom" ...but I think it might be related to the "Sun".

I mean plants and flowers need the earth , I'm no botanist obviously ...but I guess you could say the earth is like a womb , it's a safe place for a seed to grow , but to fully bloom well it's going to happen out of the earth , you mostly get roots down there , and roots aren't blooming.

So for the blooming part , well you need water , perhaps lyrium call fill that role  but you need the sun too .

If the elves did defeat the Sun , they may have face issues in their metaphorical garden.

 

And now I want to ramble about the "Sun" ...

[Elista]

It reminds me of Yggdrasil the mythical tree. It connects several worlds like the realm of the dead, the realm of the dwarves, the realm of the elves... and has one of its roots eaten by a dragon.

Wait... I just remembered that Sylaise has a special tree... it is saif that it is her HOME-tree. And she is the Hearthkeeper. Fire, tree, and the idea of a bound... what if Sylaise was like the Lady of the Forest ? I wonder. There is definetly something about trees, spirits, and fire/spark of life.

[myahele]

I

 

I've been meaning to ask about this design found on some Dwarven chairs, this one in a Dwarven ruin in the Hissing Wastes:
 

 

It looks like vines to me, coming out of fire and a sun at the bottom. They're reaching up for something? What do you guys think? .

Yeah it looks like a sun underneath some sort of barrier. And that barrier looks like it's been punctured (melted?) by the sun and through that whole those "vines" are coming out of it. Even then you can still see what appears to be flames coming out of that.

 

Maybe that thing on top (moon?) might hold/ imprison something similar? 

[Shari'El]

That was hardly tin-hatting! Sounded good to me .

 

The "something else" bothers me, what else is in a titan other than lyrium, earth and upside down sky? Some sort of pre-blight power? Assuming the blight was once something pure.

 

And hey what if that oval is the moon that Mythal put up to reflect the sun? Moons aren't oval though.. a portal? Guh .

 

So many of my ideas are just brain-flailing.. Sorry I don't have anything more substantial .

 

I have no idea, it is surely not the blight itself, otherwise Mythal wouldn't have approved.

As for the oval thing... It's.. slightly egg-shaped, so it's obviously Solas. It looks like it is elevated than the rest, and perhaps even surrounded by clouds (swirly shapes). Perhaps a titans' heart? I seriously don't know, it kind of makes me head hurt 

[myahele]

I was actually thinking that oval shaped thing might be the moon. We have Dalish, Elvhen and even Orlesian (referring to Dalish legends) of the sun being underneath the earth, but only one Dalish account of Mythal creating the Moon for the Sun.

 

The world of Thedas is crazy, so it might be possible that one of the Moons (there's 2) was created by Mythal and that it might be closer in elevation than we think. There are some other media in which the moon was artificially created and acts as a prison for something "terrible"

[susanwb]

I've been meaning to ask about this design found on some Dwarven chairs, this one in a Dwarven ruin in the Hissing Wastes:
 

 

It looks like vines to me, coming out of fire and a sun at the bottom. They're reaching up for something? What do you guys think? .

 

You know something weird?  In the Cradle of Sulevin, where you get the pieces of the Sulevin Blade, there are plaques on the wall you can interact with to unlock codex entries for the Way of Three Trees and the plaques are just like this one on the Dwarven chair.  One is exactly the same, and the others are clearly on the same theme.  I was going to upload pics and post it in this thread but never got around to it.

 

Is it just a reused art asset?  Or does it mean something that ancient Dwarves and Elves used the same designs?  Did surface Dwarves steal them from the Elves?  I honestly have no idea.

 

Also, the Cradle of Sulevin (Cradle of Purpose) is probably a temple to Andruil, considering that you unlock the codex entries there for her "religion," and it is a place the Dalish went to perform human sacrifice and she is the goddess of sacrifice.  If Solas is with your party when you go there, he comments that the Dalish "attempted a ritual they did not understand" - presumably an ancient one that they got wrong with disastrous consequences.

 

So is there a connection between Dwarves and Andruil?  Or, again, maybe it's just reused art assets and has no meaning.  Id love to hear opinions!

[Aren]

Zathrian was bound to the curse he unleashed. As long as the curse exists, he can't die. I think it's because he is bound to a spirit (Lady of the forest). Remember, Wynne couldn't die until she gave up her guardian spirit. Spirits are immortal. If elves were initially spirits that took a physical form, or regular people mingling with spirits like Anders with Justice, it can explain why they were immortal. The Veil broke something in them, cut them from their immortal part. Maybe when they were getting old they just jumped into another fresh body like Flemythal until they got tired of the physical world and entered uthenera.

Oh my. I just realized that Anders may very well be alive even if killed. Maybe we'll see him again.

So basically  the Spirit Warrior spec of DAA gives you potentially immortality and a connection to the fade? Love this theory