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[Shari'El]

One more thing if I remember correctly there's also talk in the chant of light about the 7 gates of the Golden City.

Now I don't know where they pulled that number from , but the number 7 is strange , there is 7 old gods but in chantry lore the Golden City is the Maker house.

 

The vision Drakon had from Andraste (also something found in WOT2) is also mind blowing.It sounds like a true vision to me , or Drakon was smoking something more powerful than elfroot before going to sleep.

Anyway there's talk of perhaps Titans , Solas etc...

I'm too tired to wrote the whole thing down right now , but I think it's worth a look.

 

 

-snip-

 

 

Yeah I noticed it too, three days ago I wrote a big post trying to analyze the prophecy -searches for it-

 

 

Beware, long theory post in the spoiler tag!

 

About a month ago I read WoT 1 & WoT 2, in light of our new knowledge as well as Sandal's prophecy AND Eleni Zinovia's I thought of something.

There is a canticle which people used to try and predict the DLC's content, Canticle of Exaltations, it's a prophecy...

The verse usually referred to are titled "Portents of the Maker's return".

 

Verse 5-6, previous DLCs:

Spoiler

This verse speaks of Titans:

Seven times seventy men of stone immense

Rose up from the earth like sleepers waking at the dawn,

Crossing the land with strides immeasurable,

And in the hollows in their foortprints

Paradise was stamped, indelible.

 

This seems to speak of the Avaar:

And I heard from East a great cry

As men who were beasts warred with their brothers,

Tooth and claw against blade and bow,

Until one could no longer be told from the other,

And cursed them and cursed their generations.

 

 

Spoilery bits:

Spoiler

Up until now the next verse was thought to be what we now know as the Trespasser DLC and the verse after about Corypheus.

I say nay, verses 7-9 speak of Solas and the next Dragon Age installment.

 

(7) And those who slept, the ancient ones(1), awoke,

For their dreams(2) had been devoured

By a demon(3) that prowled the Fade

As a wolf hunts a herd of deer.

Taking first the weakest and frailest of hopes,

And when there was nothing left,

Destroying the bright and bold

By subtlety and ambush and cruel arts(4).

 

(8) The ninth sacred mountain(5) upon which rests

The mortal dust of Our Lady ascended(6)

Whole into the heavens, to be given high honor

In the Realm of Dreams forever.

And around it, a chorus of spirits sang:

"Whoever passes through the fire

Is not lost, but made eternal;(7)

As air can never be broken nor crushed,

The tempered soul is everlasting!"

 

(9) And I(8) looked up and saw

The seven gates of the Black City shatter,

And darkness cloaked both realms.

 

-----------

 

(1) Ancient ones could be Evanuris, or the ancient elves that are still alive in Thedas.

 

(2) If it's the Evanuris - perhaps there was an attempt to kill them off while they were in Uthenera? If it's about the ancient elves perhaps it speaks of Solas waking the ancient elves from Uthenera by visiting their dreams, possibly to prepare them for what's to come or maybe to recruit them.

 

(3) I think the demon is not a real demon (a spirit), I think it is a term used to describe Solas through a biased point of view, there is a wink to that in the next sentence in the verse that speaks of the wolf hunting deer.

 

(4) "Subtlety and ambush" fits Solas like a glove, just saying.

 

(5) It is the Frostback Mountains, they are the sacred mountains on which Temple of Scared Ashes existed. I'm not sure why "ninth" though.

 

(6) I think this is the part that made people think of Corypheus since he raised parts of the mountains in the final battle, I think this could mean one of two things: one is that it speaks of the lady herself, Andraste, who has ascended to the heavens, and was given high honor to stand by the Maker in the Fade (Realm of Dreams), two is that if you read the two first sentences together then the mountain itself ascends, so I was thinking - Skyhold. Skyhold's Veil is old, why is it old? Because it is the place where Solas put up the Veil, it may be the place from which he will try to remove it. Perhaps the process of entering the Fade in order to remove the Veil includes use of the scar the breach left in the sky. The reason I tend to believe it is not about Corypheus is because a. it seems positive, not negative, b. Corypheus' defeat could easily occur post the Descent & JoH.

 

(7) As in eternal life? The tempered soul is everlasting.. I'm wondering, does one need to go through some process so when the Veil comes down they will gain eternalness? Maybe that's why Solas is keeping this a secret? So no one will conduct the research to figure what is required to survive that chaos?

 

(8) I wanted to make sure this is obvious = "I" is Kordillus Drakon. He wrote this prophecy when he was a prince and was said to have rewritten it several times, I wonder if we had to original piece maybe it wouldn't have been so Andrastian.

 

-----------

 

The 7th verse seems to consist two parts, the first speaks of the awakening of the ancient, the second I can't really understand. It could be just a description of Fen'Harel, all of the verses are past tense, perhaps "a demon that prowled the Fade" is there to describe his actions in the distant past. He awoke them, the same guy who prowled the Fade and brought on the destruction of the Elvhen Empire.

 

The 8th verse seems to speak of Frostback Mountain as the place where the Veil will be sundered, even if the first part of the verse speaks of Andraste I believe it isn't meaningful in the context of the prophecy, seeing that Drakon rewrote this several times he may have changed it so it will be accepted and included in the Chant of Light. The verse is very ambiguous, the spirits that sing? An Andrastian will interpret it as singing about Andraste's sacrifice (she was burned after all, Andrastians see the fire as cleansing and holy, her spirit is now eternal or whatever) and how fire will cleanse the soul and will be made eternal after death, but we can also interpret it as Fen'Harel's plan. 

 

The 9th verse is short but sweet, Drakon saw the Black City, in the sky! It means the Veil was taken down and the process of the the merging already began. Another thing to note is that there are seven gates, like there are seven magisters, seven times seventy men of stone... There are 8 of the Evanuris (since I don't include Fen'Harel there anymore), if one of Evanuris is "invalid" then it fits as well. They really like number seven in this world. Edit: since Ghilan'nain joined the Evanuris at a later time, it could be that she's the "invalid".

After the gates of the Black City shatter darkness falls over the Fade and earth.

The part that darkness falls on both realms? First in Eleni Zinovia's prophecy

"The prison is breached. I see the encroaching darkness. The... the shadow will consume all..."

As well as in Sandal's prophecy "the shadows will part" that may be about the 11th verse that you can see below.

I just read people referring to her prophecy, I don't think its' about Corypheus, the Fade serves as prison to the Evanuris, also the specific use of the term "breach" in appropriate.

 

Now one of two things might have altered the prophecy:

1. Since prophecies are given by spirits (being timeless, they can predict the future to some extent) and spirits are affected by memories and feelings they probably were affected by the feelings of ancient elves when passing this prophecy to Drakon, and maybe even by the Evanuris, so Fen'Harel is depicted as a demon crushing hope and destroying the Elvhen Empire.

2. The prophecy has been rewritten several times and the person wrote it was Andrastian, he could've modified the original one to explain what he saw, a wolf-like monster prowling the Fade? Demon. What else can it be?

 

I covered my face, fearful,

But the Lady took my hands from my eyes,

Saving, "Remember the fire. You must pass

Through it alone to be forged anew.

Look! Look upon the Light so you

May lead others here through the darkness.

Blade of The Faith!"

 

This goes along with with the song of the spirits, perhaps instructions for after the Veil's sundering?

 

Now these verse are less interesting, but perhaps hide relevant content between their lines, they are titled "The Maker returns"

 

(11) In dread I looked up once more

And saw the darkness warp and crumble,

For it was thin as samite,

A fragile shroud over the Light

Which turned it to ash.

 

(12) And the Maker, clad in the majesty of the sky,

Set foot to earth, and at His touch

All warring ceased. The vicious

Beasts lady down and were quieted;

The meek lambs became bold

And rose up, casing aside their shepherds

To dance at the Maker's feet.

 

(13) From every corner of the earth

the Chant of Light echoed,

As the Maker walked the land

With Andraste at His right hand.

And they reached the gates of Minrathous,

Where once a terrible fire swept

The Light of redemption from the face of the world,

And there, the Lady of Restitution

Drew her shining sword

And plunged it into the ground at her feet, saying:

 

(14) "All sins are forgiven! All crimes pardoned!

Let no soul harbor guilt!

Let no soul hunger for justice!

By the Maker's will I decree

Harmony to all things.

Let Balance be restored

And the world given eternal life."

 

Soooooo...

Who knows if it existed in the original or added later so it won't sound like the end or the world.

If it did exist it could've been heavily modified, and if it did I'll try to analyze it based on that assumption.

 

The 11th verse speaks of the same darkness that was spoken of in the 9th verse fading away, "shadows will part".

The 12th verse seems to me to speak of slavers and slaves, beasts/shepherds = slavers, lambs = slaves. I'm kind of amused with the choice of words, shepherds shepherd lambs, lambs get eaten by wolves, wolves are beasts. It could be the Evanuris are the beasts and the shepherds are nobles? I am uncertain.

The 13th verse seems a bit pointless, it mostly speaks of Andraste and the flames that burned her outside of Minrathous, but I like to point the name Lady of Restitution, restitution is the restoration of something to its' original state.

The 14th verse is kind of nice, "let Balance be restored" (capitalized Balance, why?) as well as "and the world given eternal life".

 

I think "portents of the Maker's return" is

 

Spoiler

Portents of the sundering of the Veil or eternalness' return

 

Edit: I think it's pretty obvious why I think the first one is about the titans.

As for the second one I shall explain, Ferelden is on the east-most side of Thedas,  Frostback Basin is part of Ferelden.

"Men who were beasts warred with their brothers" - Hakkonites are savage people, they don't have to be literal beasts to be considered beasts.

"Tooth and claw" I think is also to be taken literally, tooth fits with their chosen name "Jaws of Hakkon". It could also be that "tooth and claw" is about Storvacker but I find it less likely.

I'm not entirely sure how the Avvar work but seeing that the Jaws of Hakkon kidnapped Stone-Bear Hold's Hold-Beast and broke their peace oath with Stone-Bear Hold they could be stained for life, and those who managed to survive may be regarded with disdain.

[Reznore57]

I've been wondering if the Golden City is far more special than I thought it was.

I believe it is elven , Arlathan , but I was looking at some Solas fresco .

 

Spoiler

 

So my theory is the elves, Elgarn'an defeated the Sun , I think the Sun might have been Great Dragons , perhaps they were the one dreaming the world through the fade.

I mean the raw fade is supposed to be nothing but dark rocks and that's it.It could be what the world would look like without dragons.

It still leaves the Titans underground , molding the dark rocks but the surface would have been nothing but dry dark and dull."Nothing "without the "dream".

The Old Mythal song says she's now the one bringing dream to people filled with nothing , Mythal the one who came looking like a dragonand preserve them.

The one who kept Elgar'nan from destroying the sun and bring eternal darkness .

In Dalish Legen the Sun is tamed .The elves bring a new world order , not as bright as the old one because they will endure the night , but even in this darkness Mythal bring the moon , a gentle light.

Also the night would be a time for the elven people to dream their own world.

 

Anyway crazy theory.

Elgarnan spirit made flesh , start to frolic in the world , his "Father " the dragons , the one dreaming him and the world , draw a line and burn everything Elgarn'an enjoy.

Perhaps the proto elves were building their first civilization.

We know dragons aren't gentle beast , not evil , but they would have kept those proto elves from being able to fully evolve and build civilization.Limiting their actions on the material world.

 

So Elgar'nan , perhaps a rage demon in origin , managed to shapeshift in a dragon after a while.

He defeats them .

Some dragons dies , and the surface starts to unravel .It gets darks , things dies...

Mythal figures out without dragons , they are screwed , but they can't co exist with the biggest dragons.

They need dragons to keep on dreaming but they don't need them roaming this new land.

Now I don't know how this would have happened , but they managed to captured the 7 biggest alphas.They bound their bodies underground with dark magic.Putting them to sleep forever.

Then they build a marvelous new city , Arlathan , a pale immitation of the "Sun" a place where now the elven people would be the one dreaming the world.(Althought I assume the elves found out they weren't great dragons and limited hence them ending up hunting the Pillars of the Earth)

 

Of course an idiot did something bad , it's possible the dragons souls were somewhere in Arlathan , bound to it or whatever.And someone got those soul tainted.

Arlathan being the last place where there is no veil , the dragons nightmare is at full effect , and once they get woken up by some imbecile (Cory) their nightmare turn real , the city turn black.

I imagine the Archdemons aren't their full power wether because they work as a collective or the creation of the veil made the world more resistant to the effect of the fade.

 

[chaztehman]

I just want to throw out some ideas but without much proof (too lazy) to see how you guys take it, and I might build and find proof if it seems to stick at all.

 

Has anyone considered the Old Gods to be apart of the elven pantheon and not THE elven pantheon?

It sounded like the OP was almost onto something similar. We know the ancient spirit gods took on dragon forms and none of their aspects are particularly evil. I feel its possible they were the other side of one of these power struggles that eventually lost. Thinking of this I realized I kept getting the Old Gods and Forgotten Ones mixed up, but I still hold onto it. They both could have been losers, cutting numbers down and down to who had power over time in these many wars the elven spirits had.

 

The Forgotten Ones. By our knowledge we think they are of terror and disease and all the nasty nasty, but what if that isn't true? How can we know what was forgotten? These elven 'gods' of motherhood and cute animals are very flawed and petty as the OP has shown. If they arn't what is abscribed to them then why should the Forgotten Ones be accepted as they are written? My main bulletpoint is Solas. The stories say he was friend to both sides and that is how he was able to trick them both. Does Solas on his high horse really seem the type to befriend disease and terror? Its not really an issue of balance by imprisioning both sides, but WHY would they trust him, a friend to Mythal, if they are so opposite?

 

This also follows my idea on the Blight. I don't think darkspawn are evil. The dragons NEED to be corrupted in their prisons. The Blight is a disease, and the darkspawn are just unforuante to be harbringers of it. The Architect kinda supports this. Its possible the darkspawn were the worshippers of the other elven gods, but a Blight infected all their people and now someone (roll eyes) is using it for some purpose.

 

Another thing is the Golden/Black City. The magisters are human, and we know that elves see the the fade differently. Possibly the dead whispers were the elven gods going "HEY IM RIGHT HERE! DON'T YOU SEE ME!?"

 

A question... a spirit is corrupted into a demon when forced against its purpose. Is there an equivalent to the material realm? Is the blight caused by something being forced against its nature in earth?

 

Also am I remembering it wrong but didn't the Primeval Thaig have Mythal statues in it...? So did the deep roads in Trespasser. The Idol also had the Andraste/Mythal crown. With a ring behind her, similar to some andrastian statues... but this probably leads too much into Mythal/Andraste thing >.>

-point being...

Part of me has this feeling that maybe Mythal is linked to the blight and, as a reponse, red lyrium. She cut off some dwarfs from the titan, perhaps to hinder the titans themselves and to use the dwarves as extra slaves, which eventually became the dwarves we know.

 

I am empty, filled with nothing(?),
Mythal gives you dreams.
It fills you, within you(?),
Making our leaders proud.
My little stones,
Never yours the sun.
Forever, forever.

 

When I first read this it came off as coming from a dwarf, or something very similar, but I don't know. Its very confusing because it seems cut in two. The author said her mother sang it to her before bed... So the dream part is plausable, but the second half seems very dark. Its almost like someone standing above dwarfs telling them why mythal is great, but you cannot go to the surface. Some sort of deal?

 

Alright I polluted this thread enough.

 

EDIT: One more question. Anyone notice that in DA2 and DAI Cory looks almost identical, except the (rock/lyrium)shard on his face are black in DA2, even though Red lyrium comes up in that game. And of course in DAI they are red. Any explanations or just slight art change?

[Shari'El]

This may be reaching like far far beyond my grip but I had a weird dream about the Evanuris that made me think about something.

What if the magisters were lured to the Golden City, by the Evanuris, to release the blight as a mean to kill off the Old Gods?

 

I'm trying to explain to myself why would Solas be so against killing the Old Gods.

It could be that if they do, the blight will surface and kill anyone off, including whatever remains of the ancient elves. This sort of thing will destroy the only hope he has left to restore his kind, as well as blighten all of the Thedas.

If the Old Gods were the bodies of the Evanuris, I don't think he wants to stop them from killing them since he plans to get rid of the Evanuris once he tears down the Veil (although I do like the idea these are their bodies), but if he does then perhaps part of their powers are locked inside their old bodies and they want to free it to regain full strength, that's the only plausible reason I can think he'd oppose in the case these are his motivations.

 

But what if there is another reason? Solas says he had a plan of how to deal with the Evanuris once the Veil is torn down.

What if the Old Gods are the Evanuris, who stopped answering the magisters once they stopped being useful to them (released the blight), and what Thedas thinks to be the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones.

What if Fen'Harel, as the legends say, did indeed walk amongst the Forgotten Ones as equal, and was actually their ally, when an Archdemon is killed, an ally is killed, and when an ally is killed, the chances of Solas managing to rid the world of the Evanuris grows smaller.

Solas may be strong, and perhaps the Evanuris were also weakened by the passing of centuries like he was, but he is still one against many.

 

Perhaps this

 

We are here

We have waited

We have slept

We are sundered

We are crippled

We are polluted

We endure

We wait

We have found the dreams again

We will awaken

 

Speaks of the Forgotten Ones and not the Evanuris.

They are polluted, by the darkspawn who are urged to find them and pray to them.

They endure, it takes a long while for a dragon to become blighted, they are highly resistant.

 

This makes me think the Evanuris can "sing" through the blight, and direct the darkspawn to corrupt the Forgotten Ones.

There are so many parallels between lyrium and the blight to ignore, both sing to those connected to them, both are sources of magic (we know that from the Warden's Keep DLC), both can drive people crazy. I think in this case perhaps blight is Fade energy that got corrupted, not lyrium that got corrupted and is the doing of the Evanuris.

 

Of course this only speculation, and could easily not be true, I don't believe in this to be the truth since there are a lot of possibilities, but I want to bring this up for debate (if anyhow has anything to say about this).

The only thing that kind of throws me off is that Dumat seems to be related to Mythal since they share the same constellation, but this could be there to do just that - to throw us off, it doesn't have to mean anything, unless the one who took the name Dumat did it to spite Mythal.

 

Edit: I was just reminded of

Modifié par Shari'El, 17 septembre 2015 - 11:14 .

[azarhal]

 

Again 7 gates, 7 Magisters. This is referring to the Second Sin, when they breached the Golden City, covering both sides in darkness (The Fade and Thedas). He refers to it as the black city because that is how he's always seen it. The rest refers to the Chantry being built and Drakon's role throughout his life, including the second blight.

 

That vision was about the coming 2nd Blight, even if the imagery was of the 1st Blight. The whole point of Drakon's vision was to urge him to take the lead for the coming 2nd Blight, which started not long after he dream all this.

 

Has anyone considered the Old Gods to be apart of the elven pantheon and not THE elven pantheon?

 

I think Cassandra hit close to the mark when she mused that they where pets to higher beings the same way Corypheus had his dragon in DAI. Now, who were those beings, I don't know. It could be the Enuvaris. It could be the Forgotten Ones. It could be something that pre-dated either and everyone forgot.

[FrankWisdom]

 

I am empty, filled with nothing(?),
Mythal gives you dreams.
It fills you, within you(?),
Making our leaders proud.
My little stones,
Never yours the sun.
Forever, forever.

 

When I first read this it came off as coming from a dwarf, or something very similar, but I don't know. Its very confusing because it seems cut in two. The author said her mother sang it to her before bed... So the dream part is plausable, but the second half seems very dark. Its almost like someone standing above dwarfs telling them why mythal is great, but you cannot go to the surface. Some sort of deal?

 

 

Before my edits were erased I talked about this. I also first thought of the first part perhaps referring to Elvhen people who had no magical talent, yet that is impossible in a time before the veil because of Elvhen nature. The fact that some modern Elves aren't mages is simply because they lost more of their conscious connection to The Fade compared to mages. Dreamer mages actually found a way to keep their conscious connection which is why they don't need to dream to enter The Fade (being their consciously).

 

Now I figured well they can't be talking about Dwarves... because Dwarves connected to Titans don't sleep, which is why they have no conscious or unconscious, connection to The Fade. But then that hit me. Mythal struck down a Titan, what then, happens to Dwarves who lose their symbiotic relationship. Their is an emptiness that resides, something that needs to be filled. I believe Mythal took advantage of this. Whether or not hers was a misguided compassion (given the Elvhen People did not perceive Dwarves as "real" people because they lacked a connection to The Fade, the same way Solas considers modern races of Thedas) remains to be seen, though maybe at this time she was more ruthless and held her goals in higher priority than her ideals, the same way Solas is driven with restoring his people. So in giving them "dreams" Mythal saw this as a boon, elevating the Dwarves. However, given the Evanuris practice of slavery, I think she used this connection. She used it to make the Dwarves mine lyrium for her. This is why there was no resistance. No "war" with the Dwarves.

 

It would also explain the

 

"My little Dwarves,

Never yours the sun (as she kept them underground to mine lyrium for her and the Elvhen people)

Forever, Forever (because the Titan is felled and she now has control)

 

It would explain the statues, the demesne being afforded to the Elvhen people, who now had control of Dwarven "slaves".

 

I also believe this might have been a coup in order to perhaps bolster her followers' magic with lyrium in anticipation of The Evanuris and their greed. Perhaps she was working with them, but the fact that this place was specifically littered with and only with Mythal statues and Fen'Harel statues (her guardian) makes me suspicious of her motives. There was purpose to her actions just as she has always danced to the music, manipulating sound waves like ripples through water.

 

I had also speculated on Solas' actual role as her guardian, and him having been her high keeper and perhaps more, makes perfect sense. He could also have freed himself of her service once she was murdered, honoring who she was and what she represented to the people.

 

Remember, Fen'Harel was an insult, a name given to him by the Evanuris. I believe this was in reference to his role as a guardian to Mythal, whom he protected loyally. I'm guessing the slur was in reference to him being on a "leash". A guard dog. But the wolf showed his bite was worse than his bark and his cunning preyed on their pride. This I think would explain how easily he could have caught them off guard. It also perhaps explains his "connection" to The Forgotten Ones, who saw his strength because of his "position". He did not show entitlement and did not rely on his nature but rather on his deeds to claim "power", even if it wasn't his goal but rather a twist of fate.

 

I just want to add these two things to reinforce my points

 

 

Spoiler

 

For their dreams had been devoured by a demon who prowled the fade (Their Pride=Solas will consume them)

As a wolf hunts a herd of deer (But the wolf showed his bite was worse than his bark)

Taking first the weakest and frailest of hopes, (This I think would explain how easily he could have caught them off guard)

and when there was nothing left,

destroying the bright and bold,

by subtlety and ambush and cruel arts (and his cunning preyed on their pride, for he knew of it well)

 

(If this quote below refers to Solas, then it fits)

 

He (Solas) did not want a body but she (Mythal) asked him to come, he left a scar when he burned her (Vallaslin) off his face.

 

A spirit was called forth by one of the Pantheon to assume a physical shape. He was eventually bound to her but found a way to free himself. Leaving a scar either means he left a physical scar or an emotional one when he freed himself. Either pertaining to the god or to himself. Perhaps this "slave" or "priest" had a special place in the heart of whomever bound him, even if it was done against his will (though this implies he took form out of love, romantic or otherwise).

[FrankWisdom]

That vision was about the coming 2nd Blight, even if the imagery was of the 1st Blight. The whole point of Drakon's vision was to urge him to take the lead for the coming 2nd Blight, which started not long after he dream all this.

 

Yes I understood the parallels. That's what I meant in my post, in fact that's what I said in response no #13 I believe. Anyways non-issue. If you understand the imagery was of the 1st blight then we understand each other.

[FrankWisdom]

This may be reaching like far far beyond my grip but I had a weird dream about the Evanuris that made me think about something.

What if the magisters were lured to the Golden City, by the Evanuris, to release the blight as a mean to kill off the Old Gods?

 

I'm trying to explain to myself why would Solas be so against killing the Old Gods.

It could be that if they do, the blight will surface and kill anyone off, including whatever remains of the ancient elves. This sort of thing will destroy the only hope he has left to restore his kind, as well as blighten all of the Thedas.

If the Old Gods were the bodies of the Evanuris, I don't think he wants to stop them from killing them since he plans to get rid of the Evanuris once he tears down the Veil (although I do like the idea these are their bodies), but if he does then perhaps part of their powers are locked inside their old bodies and they want to free it to regain full strength, that's the only plausible reason I can think he'd oppose in the case these are his motivations.

 

But what if there is another reason? Solas says he had a plan of how to deal with the Evanuris once the Veil is torn down.

What if the Old Gods are the Evanuris, who stopped answering the magisters once they stopped being useful to them (released the blight), and what Thedas thinks to be the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones.

What if Fen'Harel, as the legends say, did indeed walk amongst the Forgotten Ones as equal, and was actually their ally, when an Archdemon is killed, an ally is killed, and when an ally is killed, the chances of Solas managing to rid the world of the Evanuris grows smaller.

Solas may be strong, and perhaps the Evanuris were also weakened by the passing of centuries like he was, but he is still one against many.

 

Perhaps this

 

 

Speaks of the Forgotten Ones and not the Evanuris.

They are polluted, by the darkspawn who are urged to find them and pray to them.

They endure, it takes a long while for a dragon to become blighted, they are highly resistant.

 

This makes me think the Evanuris can "sing" through the blight, and direct the darkspawn to corrupt the Forgotten Ones.

There are so many parallels between lyrium and the blight to ignore, both sing to those connected to them, both are sources of magic (we know that from the Warden's Keep DLC), both can drive people crazy. I think in this case perhaps blight is Fade energy that got corrupted, not lyrium that got corrupted and is the doing of the Evanuris.

 

Of course this only speculation, and could easily not be true, I don't believe in this to be the truth since there are a lot of possibilities, but I want to bring this up for debate (if anyhow has anything to say about this).

The only thing that kind of throws me off is that Dumat seems to be related to Mythal since they share the same constellation, but this could be there to do just that - to throw us off, it doesn't have to mean anything, unless the one who took the name Dumat did it to spite Mythal.

 

Edit: I was just reminded of

 

 

I like your thinking but just to clarify Mythal doesn't share a constellation with Dumat.

 

 

Spoiler

 

Silentir has just been speculated (in modern times) to reference Mythal because of the horn and wand symbolism attributed to the constellation, which some scholars believe to be scales, a reference to her role as Judge and All-Mother (though this is only based on specualtion and no "facts" have been proven to reinforce the claim)

 

Anyways I like your description of  whispers written in red lyrium.

[Reznore57]

Before my edits were erased I talked about this. I also first thought of the first part perhaps referring to Elvhen people who had no magical talent, yet that is impossible in a time before the veil because of Elvhen nature. The fact that some modern Elves aren't mages is simply because of they lost more of their conscious connection to The Fade compared to mages. Dreamer mages actually found a way to keep their conscious connection which is why they don't need to dream to enter The Fade (being their consciously).

 

Now I figured well they can't be talking about Dwarves... because Dwarves connected to Titans don't sleep, which is why they have no conscious or unconscious, connection to The Fade. But then that hit me. Mythal struck down a Titan, what then, happens to Dwarves who lose their symbiotic relationship. Their is an emptiness that resides, something that needs to be filled. I believe Mythal took advantage of this. Whether hers was a misguided compassion given the Elvhen People did not perceive Dwarves as "real" people given their lack of connection to The Fade (the same way  Solas considers modern races of Thedas). So in giving them "dreams" Mythal saw this as a boon, elevating the Dwarves. However, given the Evanuris practice of slavery, I think she used this connection. She used it to make the Dwarves mine lyrium for her. This is why there was no resistance. No "war" with the Dwarves.

 

It would also explain the

 

"My little Dwarves,

Never yours the sun (as she kept them underground to mine lyrium for her and the Elvhen people)

Forever, Forever (because the Titan is felled and she now has control)

 

It would explain the statues, the demesne being afforded to the Elvhen people, who now had control of Dwarven "slaves".

 

I also believe this might have been a coup in order to perhaps bolster her followers' magic with lyrium in anticipation of The Evanuris and their greed. Perhaps she was working with them, but the fact that this place was specifically littered with and only with Mythal statues and Fen'Harel statues (her guardian) makes me suspicious of her motives. There was purpose to her actions just as she has always danced to the music, manipulating sound waves like ripples through water.

 

I had also speculated on Solas' actual role as her guardian, and him having been her high keeper and perhaps more, makes perfect sense. He could also have freed himself of her service once she was murdered, honoring who she was and what she represented to the people.

 

Remember, Fen'Harel was an insult, a name given to him by the Evanuris. I believe this was in reference to his role as a guardian to Mythal, whom he protected loyally. I'm guessing the slur was in reference to him being on a "leash". A guard dog. But the wolf showed his bite was worst than his bark and his cunning preyed on their pride. This I think would explain how easily he could have caught them off guard. It also perhaps explains his "connection" to The Forgotten Ones, who saw his strength because of his "position". He did not show entitlement and did not rely on his nature but rather on his deeds to claim "power", even if it wasn't his goal but rather a twist of fate.

 

I was thinking about this ...and I agree Mythal was doing something in the Deep Roads , and Fen Harel was already at her side.

I wonder if she wasn't the spark behind the Forgotten Ones , maybe she wanted to empower part of her own people to overthrow the other gods who were cruel and getting out of hands quickly (like Falon'Din)

Perhaps Fen Harel was the first , she may have introduced him as her Champion , but she was grooming him for something else.

 

It's possible the Forgotten Ones got their names because some of them were underground with Mythal and when they woke something up some of the Forgotten Ones were left in the Deep Roads.

And with her plan failing , well they remained Forgotten and Mythal had to turn their back on those who escaped.

 

It's like the story of the sinner...it is a bit strange and not really in line with what we saw of Mythal/Flemythal.

Yes he broke a rule but performed a feast.Then he begs for Mythal mercy , and she turns away from him and send Elgar'nan to deal with it.

I mean Flemythal was grooming a future rebel God , Fen Harel , She tells Merrill "Stand the People bow down too quickly" She raised Morrigan to be curious and unafraid , and she likes her that way.

And then someone turn into a dragon and since it's taboo she unleash the crazy beast known as Elgar'nan?

Doesn't make sense to me.

 

I think before she was killed , she was in a very very bad position.Her own Godhood was challenged and the other Gods solution to this was just murdering elves left and right.

She may have wanted to replace part of her Pantheon , or create an army to overthrow them.

[Shari'El]

I like your thinking but just to clarify Mythal doesn't share a constellation with Dumat.

 

 

Spoiler

 

Silentir has just been speculated (in modern times) to reference Mythal because of the horn and wand symbolism attributed to the constellation, which some scholars believe to be scales, a reference to her role as Judge and All-Mother (though this is only based on specualtion and no "facts" have been proven to reinforce the claim)

 

Anyways I like your description of  whispers written in red lyrium.

 

Oh that's right, thank you for reminding me it's just a speculation, I kind of started working on pilot mode with the knowledge I have gathered

So no worries!

[azarhal]

 

It's like the story of the sinner...it is a bit strange and not really in line with what we saw of Mythal/Flemythal.

Yes he broke a rule but performed a feast.Then he begs for Mythal mercy , and she turns away from him and send Elgar'nan to deal with it.

I mean Flemythal was grooming a future rebel God , Fen Harel , She tells Merrill "Stand the People bow down too quickly" She raised Morrigan to be curious and unafraid , and she likes her that way.

And then someone turn into a dragon and since it's taboo she unleash the crazy beast known as Elgar'nan?

Doesn't make sense to me.

 

I find that tale strange as well. Why would Mythal refuse to deal with a Sinner and let Elgar'nan deal with it? Or maybe that tales is there to show that she wasn't as nice and compassionate as Solas claim she was. I do think the "my little stones" song is about Mythal severing Dwarves from a Titan and giving them dreams though.

 

 

On another subject, there is one thing I'm starting to be pretty sure of: Andruil = Lady of the Skies. Going by Reddit I'm not the only one. I had already associated Andruil and the Lady of the Skies before DAI. At first I though that Lady of the Skies was a dragon (and Mythal), but while playing DA2 I read something that made me change my mind (I need to find it back). Something about the Lady of the Skies not fearing dragons and having no problem to elude them because birds are faster (which is basically Mythal hunting Andruil). Then Jaws of Hakkon shows that the Lady of the Skies is seen as an owl by the Avvar. What are owls, well they are believed to be Andruil's messengers. We also learned in DAI that Ghilan'nain gifted her flying creatures to Andruil (birds?).

 

Then there is more...

 

The Avvar claims the Lady of the Skies (depicted as an owl) showed them a new land where they could live (aka Ferelden). That reflect the Dalish belief that owls are messengers sent by Andruil so they can find a blessed land.

 

Both the Lady and Andruil are associated with sacrifices, wisdom and hunting. The Lady is also associated to love and death. I don't know about love (although that quest about Dalish lovers in DAO might point to Andruil having a role in that), but Andruil and death might work because of her trip in the Void and bringing back death with her.

 

There is the Saga of Tyrdda Bright-Axe. The bright-axe is actually a mage staff "gifted from her leaf-eared lover, laughing lady of the skies.". This is a Saga about the Avvar finding Ferelden. Tyrdda was mostly probably a Dreamer, because her leaf-eared lover was a spirit.

 

Also, we might also be able to tie them to Razikale, who shares a lot with the Lady of the Skies. Both priesthood called their highest priest The Augur, both are tied to Lake Calenhad (Lady's tears and Razikale blessed the waters) and Razikale is also tied to sacrifice and wisdom.

 

I get the feeling that Andruil is a piece of the current puzzle. Wouldn't surprise me if she was taken down before Mythal was murdered.

[FrankWisdom]

I find that tale strange as well. Why would Mythal refuse to deal with a Sinner and let Elgar'nan deal with it? Or maybe that tales is there to show that she wasn't as nice and compassionate as Solas claim she was. I do think the "my little stones" song is about Mythal severing Dwarves from a Titan and giving them dreams though.

 

 

On another subject, there is one thing I'm starting to be pretty sure of: Andruil = Lady of the Skies. Going by Reddit I'm not the only one. I had already associated Andruil and the Lady of the Skies before DAI. At first I though that Lady of the Skies was a dragon (and Mythal), but while playing DA2 I read something that made me change my mind (I need to find it back). Something about the Lady of the Skies not fearing dragons and having no problem to elude them because birds are faster (which is basically Mythal hunting Andruil). Then Jaws of Hakkon shows that the Lady of the Skies is seen as an owl by the Avvar. What are owls, well they are believed to be Andruil's messengers. We also learned in DAI that Ghilan'nain gifted her flying creatures to Andruil (birds?).

 

Then there is more...

 

The Avvar claims the Lady of the Skies (depicted as an owl) showed them a new land where they could live (aka Ferelden). That reflect the Dalish belief that owls are messengers sent by Andruil so they can find a blessed land.

 

Both the Lady and Andruil are associated with sacrifices, wisdom and hunting. The Lady is also associated to love and death. I don't know about love (although that quest about Dalish lovers in DAO might point to Andruil having a role in that), but Andruil and death might work because of her trip in the Void and bringing back death with her.

 

There is the Saga of Tyrdda Bright-Axe. The bright-axe is actually a mage staff "gifted from her leaf-eared lover, laughing lady of the skies.". This is a Saga about the Avvar finding Ferelden. Tyrdda was mostly probably a Dreamer, because her leaf-eared lover was a spirit.

 

Also, we might also be able to tie them to Razikale, who shares a lot with the Lady of the Skies. Both priesthood called their highest priest The Augur, both are tied to Lake Calenhad (Lady's tears and Razikale blessed the waters) and Razikale is also tied to sacrifice and wisdom.

 

I get the feeling that Andruil is a piece of the current puzzle. Wouldn't surprise me if she was taken down before Mythal was murdered.

Not sure about The Lady Of The Skies being Andruil though the symbolism is compelling.

 

I do agree  100% that Razikale would be the representation of Andruil because of what you said. The sacrifice theme bridges them together.

 

In fact I'll copy this post I made from another thread

 

Dumat=Dirthamen

 

Spoiler

 

"We are the masters of Secrets"

 

Spoiler

 

Dirthamen: Keeper of Secrets

 

Spoiler

 

We few whisper here where shadows dwell.

Some words remain unuttered.

Truths are pushed down, down.

Where they shall never arise again.

 

What of the old secrets that burn within our hearts

 

Spoiler

 

"To him, the Conductor went in secret, armed with the whisper of Silence."

 

"And yet, the fire in the Conductor's (of silence) heart ignited Within the Architect a terrible flame".

 

Zazikale=Ghilan'nain

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

"She used her power to create animals none had ever seen. The skies teemed with her monsters, the land with her beasts."

 

"The gods would share their power with Ghilan'nain, but only if she destroyed her creations, for they were too untamed to remain among the people"

 

Chaos and freedom.

 

Toth=Sylaise

 

Spoiler

 

Sylaise, who's heat rivals Elgar'nan's

Sylaise, who's fire cannot be quenched

 

Andoral=Elgar'nan

 

Spoiler

 

"By a thousand, thousand toiling servants swarming over a lump of fallen stone as large as a mountain"

 

"The Slaves have disappeared"

 

Spoiler

 

The sun and moon in particular, indeed, many believe the proper depiction of Solium is as both

 

Spoiler

 

Bound slaves under the "Solium" (proper depiction is as both i.e. smaller circle=moon, bigger=sun)

 

Urthemiel=June

 

Spoiler

 

The High Priest of Beauty, Architect of The Works of beauty, designed every work of wonder of the imperium according to the plans of his god

Spoiler

 

"Architects of the grand sonallium (A gift from blessed Sylaise to Clever June as thanks for a great favor)"

 

Spoiler

 

"Dalish legends say June is a god of crafts and building".

 

Razikale=Andruil

 

Dragon of Mystery, return to us, we beg you. Your servants falter. The paths ahead are lost in darkness, and those who walk them find only ruin. Those who should guide us instead wage war upon each other, vying for a throne that does not exist. The blood of the sacrifices that seeps into the stone here shall be the only truth we reveal in the end.

Spoiler

 

"Blood and Force"

 

"Spare us the moment we become your sacrifices"

 

Spoiler

 

In the Temple of Mythal, Solas reveals that Andruil was also known as the Goddess of Sacrifice. She also had a habit of hunting both animals and mortals. Her love for challenging hunts drove her to looking for prey among The Forgotten Ones in the Void, something (mysterious) that ultimately drove her mad. She forgot herself (Mystery) and brought plague to her lands until Mythal successfully challenged her and stole her knowledge (Wisdom=Knowledge, Mystery=Knowledge Lost) of how to find the way to the Abyss.

 

Lusacan=Falon'DIn

 

"Lusacan, the Dragon of Night, calls to you. He lives where it is darkest and waits for the day he will rise. Drink of his blood and know the power in darkness: either fear the Night or wield it."

 

Spoiler

 

Called "shadow" in common parlance. It's odd however that the depiction for the constellation has always been that of an owl.

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Constellation Draconis A.K.A. The Queen of Dragons=Mythal (from "The Silent Grove")

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Also check the parallels within The chant of light and with what we know of the Evanuris

 

Spoiler

 

"They are Forbidden from the earth that is our right

 

Spoiler

 

"The people must rise before the false gods destroy them all"

 

Spoiler

 

"Let us rule over earth as well"

 

Spoiler

 

The demons appeared to the children of earth in dreams, and named themselves gods, demanding fealty

 

"As you crave the earth, the earth shall be your domain"

 

"To the pretender gods once more"

[Shari'El]

I find that tale strange as well. Why would Mythal refuse to deal with a Sinner and let Elgar'nan deal with it? Or maybe that tales is there to show that she wasn't as nice and compassionate as Solas claim she was. I do think the "my little stones" song is about Mythal severing Dwarves from a Titan and giving them dreams though.

 

 

On another subject, there is one thing I'm starting to be pretty sure of: Andruil = Lady of the Skies. Going by Reddit I'm not the only one. I had already associated Andruil and the Lady of the Skies before DAI. At first I though that Lady of the Skies was a dragon (and Mythal), but while playing DA2 I read something that made me change my mind (I need to find it back). Something about the Lady of the Skies not fearing dragons and having no problem to elude them because birds are faster (which is basically Mythal hunting Andruil). Then Jaws of Hakkon shows that the Lady of the Skies is seen as an owl by the Avvar. What are owls, well they are believed to be Andruil's messengers. We also learned in DAI that Ghilan'nain gifted her flying creatures to Andruil (birds?).

 

Then there is more...

 

The Avvar claims the Lady of the Skies (depicted as an owl) showed them a new land where they could live (aka Ferelden). That reflect the Dalish belief that owls are messengers sent by Andruil so they can find a blessed land.

 

Both the Lady and Andruil are associated with sacrifices, wisdom and hunting. The Lady is also associated to love and death. I don't know about love (although that quest about Dalish lovers in DAO might point to Andruil having a role in that), but Andruil and death might work because of her trip in the Void and bringing back death with her.

 

There is the Saga of Tyrdda Bright-Axe. The bright-axe is actually a mage staff "gifted from her leaf-eared lover, laughing lady of the skies.". This is a Saga about the Avvar finding Ferelden. Tyrdda was mostly probably a Dreamer, because her leaf-eared lover was a spirit.

 

Also, we might also be able to tie them to Razikale, who shares a lot with the Lady of the Skies. Both priesthood called their highest priest The Augur, both are tied to Lake Calenhad (Lady's tears and Razikale blessed the waters) and Razikale is also tied to sacrifice and wisdom.

 

I get the feeling that Andruil is a piece of the current puzzle. Wouldn't surprise me if she was taken down before Mythal was murdered.

 

The owls thing within in the Evanuris is kind of weird, owls symbolize Falon'Din, but are the messengers of Andruil, I wonder why.

Anyway, it's an interesting theory, I always saw her as Mythal, but these are really good arguments .

Most commonly Andoral is tied with Andruil seeing she is apparently hunts slaves, plus she is pretty nuts, but Andoral is all about enslaving, not hunting so I'm not entirely convinced.

 

Wasn't Razikale the goddess of mystery?

I know the constellation represents sacrifice, but that's the interpretation given post-Old Gods, before that it was a man with his head in a cloud.

Is there anything beyond that to point that she is more than goddess of mystery?

 

Actually, if we are discussing this, which Old God do you think each Evnuris represents?

That is if we go with that line of thought that Old Gods = Evanuris.

 

Edit: I'll put what I thought as well

 

Dumat (god of silence) - Dirthamen (god of secrets)

Toth (god of fire) - Sylaise (gave fire to elves)

Lusacan (god of night) - Falon'Din (god of death), they even share a constellation.

Urthemiel (god of beauty) - June (god of crafts)

 

The next ones are the reason I asked, because I feel uncertain.

Zazikel (god of chaos and freedom) -  Elgar'nan (god of vengeance), as far as I concern he is the most deprived of the Evanuris, the idea that Zazikel is both the god of chaos and freedom is interesting because of the fact that the constellation associated Elgar'nan depicts both the moon and the sun. I'm also thinking perhaps Ghilan'nain, chaos and freedom, she created beasts, possibly some terrible monstrosities in the process, Anruil hunted them because they were too untamed (here comes the chaos part) but she also created animals like the halla, and is the goddess of guidance.

Andoral (god of slaves, unity & chains) - Elgar'nan is a valid option. There is a holiday in Thedas called Andoralis which celebrates marriage, seeing Elgar'nan is the All-Father and god of fatherhood as well it seems fitting. He also not a kind judge, that much is evident from other codices, for that "god of chain" fits. As for slaves I am uncertain, seems to me like all the gods held slaves. I can't match Andruil or Ghilan'nain too well to this god, but perhaps I'm lacking the perspective.

Razikale (goddess of mystery) - If she is indeed of goddess of sacrifice it would indeed fit Andruil, but I want to point out something I noticed, the story of the constellation (post-Old Gods) depicts a young woman being captured by a lustful mage and freed by her father by sending her to the sky. Tale tell Ghilan'nain was captured by a hunter and prayed to Andruil for help, but since she was blind and hurt she didn't manage to find her way home, so Andruil turned her into the first halla. There is the same arching story -> woman captured -> saved by beloved -> changed form -> sacrifice. Only in the tale of Ghilan'nain the hunter was killed and in the other tale the father was killed. So to me either Ghilan'nain or Andruil fit.

 

All in all I'm really uncertain for the last three gods :/

 

Edit 2:

Ugh thinking of Ghilan'nain now makes me think about that guy from Fullmetal Alchemist who turned his daughter into a chimera, gives me shivers, I think she disgusts me the most right now.

Modifié par Shari'El, 17 septembre 2015 - 10:06 .

[FrankWisdom]

The owls thing within in the Evanuris is kind of weird, owls symbolize Falon'Din, but are the messengers of Andruil, I wonder why.

Anyway, it's an interesting theory, I always saw her as Mythal, but these are really good arguments .

Most commonly Andoral is tied with Andruil seeing she is apparently hunts slaves, plus she is pretty nuts, but Andoral is all about enslaving, not hunting so I'm not entirely convinced.

 

Wasn't Razikale the goddess of mystery?

I know the constellation represents sacrifice, but that's the interpretation given post-Old Gods, before that it was a man with his head in a cloud.

Is there anything beyond that to point that she is more than goddess of mystery?

 

Actually, if we are discussing this, which Old God do you think each Evnuris represents?

That is if we go with that line of thought that Old Gods = Evanuris.

 

Check the post I just added above yours

 

Kind of simpatico there

[azarhal]

 

The owls thing within in the Evanuris is kind of weird, owls symbolize Falon'Din, but are the messengers of Andruil, I wonder why.

Anyway, it's an interesting theory, I always saw her as Mythal, but these are really good arguments  .

Most commonly Andoral is tied with Andruil seeing she is apparently hunts slaves, plus she is pretty nuts, but Andoral is all about enslaving, not hunting so I'm not entirely convinced.

 

The owl being Falon'Din seems to be hearsay,  the only reference I found is in a constellation codex which is based on Dalish lore at best, but most probably on Chantry's version of the Dalish lore (the leafless tree constellation is credited to Andruil, when that's Mythal symbol).

 

 

Wasn't Razikale the goddess of mystery?

I know the constellation represents sacrifice, but that's the interpretation given post-Old Gods, before that it was a man with his head in a cloud.

Is there anything beyond that to point that she is more than goddess of mystery?

 

Actually, if we are discussing this, which Old God do you think each Evnuris represents?

That is if we go with that line of thought that Old Gods = Evanuris.

 

Razikale was the goddess of mystery, but in this case mystery = wisdom, from the writing in her temple in JoH:

To She Who Winds the Skein of Wisdom, we dedicate this citadel. Dragon of Mystery, bestow upon your faithful servants your ineffable truth. Grant us eyes to pierce the darkness and souls to bear the wounds of your labyrinth.

 

The constellation is a woman with her head in the clouds (or sky). I personally agree with FrankWisdom listing of the Old God = Enuvaris match up too.

 

Now though, keep in mind, this is all symbolism and there might be a bit of spirits copying what they see around somewhere. Also, there is Cassandra's theory that might be true as well: the archdemon are just pets to powerful beings long forgotten like Corypheus' dragon was. She come up with it after Solas says that Corypheus might just be emulating his Old Gods...

[Kantr]

The band of Three (a group of seekers in Kirkwall) seemed to believe that the forgotten/forbidden ones were the same.

[Shari'El]

The owl being Falon'Din seems to be hearsay,  the only reference I found is in a constellation codex which is based on Dalish lore at best, but most probably on Chantry's version of the Dalish lore (the leafless tree constellation is credited to Andruil, when that's Mythal symbol).

 

Falon'Din has statues of owls, one statue called the "The Guide of Falon'Din" can be found in crestwood.

 

Razikale was the goddess of mystery, but in this case mystery = wisdom, from the writing in her temple in JoH:

To She Who Winds the Skein of Wisdom, we dedicate this citadel. Dragon of Mystery, bestow upon your faithful servants your ineffable truth. Grant us eyes to pierce the darkness and souls to bear the wounds of your labyrinth.

 

The constellation is a woman with her head in the clouds (or sky). I personally agree with FrankWisdom listing of the Old God = Enuvaris match up too.

 

Now though, keep in mind, this is all symbolism and there might be a bit of spirits copying what they see around somewhere. Also, there is Cassandra's theory that might be true as well: the archdemon are just pets to powerful beings long forgotten like Corypheus' dragon was. She come up with it after Solas says that Corypheus might just be emulating his Old Gods...

 

Mystery = wisdom is kind of obvious, I can't see what the goddess of mystery would encompass otherwise

 

As said above, I personally think there is a possibility the dragons in the ground are different from the actual Old Gods who spoke to magisters in their dreams.

[Reznore57]

If I had to guess , I'm not sure the Old Gods = Evanuris but even if they are not , there's a huge chance Tevinter just find some old elven ruins and started worshipping whatever idols they found in there.

 

Dumat = Elgar'nan.

Dumat is what look like the leaders of the Old Gods , the first to rise .He is also the Dragon of Silence.

Elgar'nan was the father and god of vengeance.

But it comes across as not a big talker or thinker .Something cross him or annoys him , he just destroys it.

Dragon of Silence sounds better than the Dumb One with little patience.

 

Zazikel = Andruil.

Zazikel is the dragon of chaos , and I think his priest was the madmen of chaos.We know Andruil went crazy at one point , she probably wasn't the sanest around in her non corrupted form since she hunted elves for sport.

 

Toth =June.

Dragon of fire , June God of craft.The Tevinter priest was the Forgewright of Fire...it makes me think of craft.And fire is one of the main tool of humanity.

 

Andoral = Sylaise the Hearthkeeper .Andoral is the dragon of slavery , and there's a Sylaise Song where the elven people says "We give ourselves glady to your service."Besides I imagine most high rank in Tevinter had slaves taking care of their home .Preparing food , keeping the fire = slave work.

 

Urthemiel = Ghilan'nain.Urthemiel is the dragon of beauty.Ghilan'nain created beautiful creatures like the Halla.Besides the Architect was like a mad scientist when he was toying with the Blight.And it seems GHilan'nain was also a mad scientist.

 

Razikale =Dirthamen.Dragon of Mystery and Gods of secret and knowledge sounds pretty close to me.

 

Falon'din =Lucasan.Dragon of Night and Friend of the Dead.

Death for the elves was more or less in uthenera the eternal sleep.Usually sleeping happens at night.

[Shari'El]

Dragon of Silence sounds better than the Dumb One with little patience.

 

 

[azarhal]

Falon'Din has statues of owls, one statue called the "The Guide of Falon'Din" can be found in crestwood.

 

 

 

Who named the statue?

The Chantry equal owls to Falon'Din because they believe owls are bad omens.

Dorian and the Dalish both believes owls are tied to Andruil.

 

Who is right?

 

edit:

 

Isn't there a temple dedicated to Falon'din in DAI anyway? Does it have owls?

[Reznore57]

Who named the statue?

The Chantry equal owls to Falon'Din because they believe owls are bad omens.

Dorian and the Dalish both believes owls are tied to Andruil.

 

Who is right?

 

edit:

 

Isn't there a temple dedicated to Falon'din in DAI anyway? Does it have owls?

 

Some astrarium codex says Falon Din in Dalish tales was sometimes represented as a giant owl :http://dragonage.wik...tion:_Tenebrium

 

Also after Trespasser and the revelation elves may have been spirits , it puts a new spin on the relationship between Falon'din and Dirthamen who were beyond brother , lovers etc but "twin souls."

The Dalish tale is they were separated by the veil.

But now it's possible one was a spirits , perhaps they were somekind of abomination , or just one person and Falon'din was the spirit form and Dirthamen the flesh and bone one.

 

Also the whole June created himself thing...

[Shari'El]

Who named the statue?

The Chantry equal owls to Falon'Din because they believe owls are bad omens.

Dorian and the Dalish both believes owls are tied to Andruil.

 

Who is right?

 

edit:

 

Isn't there a temple dedicated to Falon'din in DAI anyway? Does it have owls?

 

There is a temple to Dirthamen

And

 

The Guide of Falon'DinEdit

Falon'Din sought someone to be his messenger and companion. The wind was swift, but Falon'Din refused to chain it. The People were loyal, but could not live where Falon'Din walked. Then the owl came to him and said, "I am not cowed by darkness. Let me serve you who also has no fear of night." Falon'Din accepted gladly, and took the owl as his servant, who thereafter helped Falon'Din guide the People through the passage of the Veil.

 

—From Animals of the People, as told by Ellathin, Keeper of Clan Tillahnnen

 

It's a Dalish thing as well.

[Shari'El]

The band of Three (a group of seekers in Kirkwall) seemed to believe that the forgotten/forbidden ones were the same.

 

I think we can deduce this to be not true, I think that the Forbidden Ones are entirely spirits - we already encountered the demon Choice. Spirit. Imshael, as well as Gaxkang. We also know there are only 4, and we also have this from Trespasser.

On the other hand there seem to be more than 4 Forgotten Ones (their names lost in history) and seem to be of different nature, we have a story of Andruil and Anaris fighting over Fen'Harel and a note written by Geldauran you can see here, Geldauran doesn't sound like a demon.

 

But of course, I could be mistaken.

[Shari'El]

Earlier on this page we discussed the fresco with the.. orbs..

I wantedto add this picture as well, in case someone can think of some interesting connection:

 

Spoiler

 

This is Solas' initial tarot card for those who don't recognize, he has a halo with rays shining from its' center just like the some of the spheres in that fresco (the sphere he holds for example).

 

Edit: spoilered for MASSIVE SIZE

[myahele]

 

"And I heard from the East a great cry

As men who were beasts warred with their brothers,

Tooth and claw against blade and bow,

Until one could no longer be told from the other,

And cursed them and cursed their generations."

Interestingly, near the epilogue of Trespasser, Leliana mentions elves in the Tirashan (The East of Thedas) are stirring/ being spotted in great frequency. When I 1st heard the quote, I thought it was werewolves ... but now with the revelation of "Lizard Men" then it's possible there might be were-lizard/dragons; why limit it to wolves?

 

I do think there's a connection between Chantry Legends and Ancient Elvhen:

 

 

On the top of my head here's what's in common:

1. Sphere of fire

2. Tree, which is prominent in Elvhen lore but not (if ever) in Chantry. 

3. A hooded robed figure which we're now finding out in ancient elvhen art work is common to depict fellow elves

4. That crown

 

Of course, we can just chalk this up to humans imitating elvhen artwork