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[azarhal]

You know something weird?  In the Cradle of Sulevin, where you get the pieces of the Sulevin Blade, there are plaques on the wall you can interact with to unlock codex entries for the Way of Three Trees and the plaques are just like this one on the Dwarven chair.  One is exactly the same, and the others are clearly on the same theme.  I was going to upload pics and post it in this thread but never got around to it.

 

Is it just a reused art asset?  Or does it mean something that ancient Dwarves and Elves used the same designs?  Did surface Dwarves steal them from the Elves?  I honestly have no idea.

 

Also, the Cradle of Sulevin (Cradle of Purpose) is probably a temple to Andruil, considering that you unlock the codex entries there for her "religion," and it is a place the Dalish went to perform human sacrifice and she is the goddess of sacrifice.  If Solas is with your party when you go there, he comments that the Dalish "attempted a ritual they did not understand" - presumably an ancient one that they got wrong with disastrous consequences.

 

So is there a connection between Dwarves and Andruil?  Or, again, maybe it's just reused art assets and has no meaning.  Id love to hear opinions!

 

Andruil has small connections to the "sun" via various things like the Hawk and Hare chasing the sun being a glyph in the Exalted Plains, but not directly in text as far as I remember (unless the theory that some Avvar's myths are reworded Elven's tales is accurate than she tried to get the sun back from the Void/Abyss).

 

Then Serault's Masket Andraste seems to be a Chantry mix of her and Andraste or it could just be a old statue of Andruil that the locals converted to Andraste considering the Applewoods is a region of the Tirashan forest and there are elves that lives in the Tirashan still.

 

Andruil was said to be born of the earth in Dragon Age PnP RPG book.

 

We do have connection between the Elves and the Dwarves though, coming from Mythal doing something to them in the past. Maybe the Elven empire included Dwarves at some points (slaves of course).

 

edit:

Reading the Cradle of Sulevin's codex. The Elves tried a bloodmagic ritual there during the Exalted March on the Dales and all they achieved was pissing off spirits that then slaughtered them. That's rather interesting...

[susanwb]

 

edit:

Reading the Cradle of Sulevin's codex. The Elves tried a bloodmagic ritual there during the Exalted March on the Dales and all they achieved was pissing off spirits that then slaughtered them. That's rather interesting...

 

Yes, that's what I was referring to when I mentioned the Dalish performing a sacrifice there.  They defiled the Sulevin Blade by sacrificing four humans in a blood magic ritual, and then demons killed them and possessed the bodies of the people they had sacrificed.  The blade was broken into four pieces.

 

I've been trying to upload my screencaps of the plaques to Imgur but they just hang there in the queue saying "pending" forever.  So I guess I won't be able to share them.  I'll try to describe them instead.

 

In one, the oval shape we see is alone on the sort of heraldry background (without the vines/branches underneath), and in another the heraldry is missing and the oval thing looks like an egg in a nest with two curving lines over the top.

 

edit: bad Englishing

[susanwb]

Yes, that's what I was referring to when I mentioned the Dalish performing a sacrifice there.  They defiled the Sulevin Blade by sacrificing four humans in a blood magic ritual, and then demons killed them and possessed the bodies of the people they had sacrificed.  The blade was broken into four pieces.

 

I've been trying to upload my screencaps of the plaques to Imgur but they just hang there in the queue saying "pending" forever.  So I guess I won't be able to share them.  I'll try to describe them instead.

 

In one, the oval shape we see is alone on the sort of heraldry background (without the vines/branches underneath), and in another the heraldry is missing and the oval thing looks like an egg in a nest with two curving lines over the top.

 

edit: bad Englishing

 

Imgur finally decided to work!  So here they are (sorry they're big).  The one that's the same as the Dwarven chair design:

 

Spoiler

 

With no vines:

Spoiler

 

"Egg in nest"

Spoiler

[Shari'El]

Imgur finally decided to work!  So here they are (sorry they're big).  The one that's the same as the Dwarven chair design:

 

Spoiler

 

With no vines:

Spoiler

 

"Egg in nest"

Spoiler

 

Do you know by chance which codex belongs to every carving?

[azarhal]

Could the images tell a story?

 

The egg come first, then it is transformed into the oval-thingy and than only the oval-thingy remains. Or the other way around. The oval-thingy comes, create the vines+sun and a egg appear there after a while.

 

I also had the same question as Shari'El too.

[susanwb]

Do you know by chance which codex belongs to every carving?

 

I posted them in the order I took them, and the Way of Three Trees was revealed line by line as it would be read/spoken.  But I think what happens is that the "Way of Three Trees" codex unlocks each bit in order, regardless of which icon you click first.  I could be wrong about that, though.  I'd have to replay the mission to be sure, and I don't have a save there.

[FernRain]

You know something weird?  In the Cradle of Sulevin, where you get the pieces of the Sulevin Blade, there are plaques on the wall you can interact with to unlock codex entries for the Way of Three Trees and the plaques are just like this one on the Dwarven chair.  One is exactly the same, and the others are clearly on the same theme.  I was going to upload pics and post it in this thread but never got around to it.

 
And just like that I'm off to the Cradle of Sulevin .
 
*Some time passes*..
 
You're right o.o:

Spoiler

 

 

Interestingly, one of the chambers there is called "starlight chamber", her spear is made from the radiance (light) of stars.

 

And these images appear in the sanctuary of the dead below:

 

 

Ooh this is all so interesting! I like it when we get on a tangent like this . The Dwarven one still slightly differs from the first picture also.

 

The rings around the ovals (first and last pic) remind me of a portal.

[susanwb]

 

Ooh this is all so interesting! I like it when we get on a tangent like this . The Dwarven one still slightly differs from the first picture also.

 

The rings around the ovals (first and last pic) remind me of a portal.

 

You know, you're right.  The Dwarven one is just a tad different. Now that I see them together I can see the differences.  But still, really close and clearly the same style (maybe same artist?).

 

I didn't notice the ones on the grave markers.  How did I miss that?

[Reznore57]

I have to say I'm glad some people have good eyes because I would never see this in game Ever!

 

Anyway the egg kind of make me think of the magrallen :http://dragonage.wik...wiki/Magrallen.

Knowing Tevinter tends to steal everything from elves , possible it's also the case.

Now  the egg had to be filled with something , in this case dragon blood , and it gave a huge power over the fade.

 

Perhaps the elves tried something like this with Titans blood or something.

 

Let's put on my tinfoil hat , there's a lot of talks of songs , and those songs have some magical effect , like Cole says the "old songs " pull him and he doesn't have to sleep or eat .Meaning it's not just his nature as a spirits granting him that.

Also there's talk of "dreams" , Mythal bringing dream and Solas chewing his own legs so he can escape the "old dream" or something...so it's possible something is dreaming Thedas.

Perhaps whatever the Sun is , and the Titans were doing that ...and the elves when they attack those had to create another dream , so the world would not unravel , might explain all the sleeping elves in coffins near the lyrium well in Trespassers.

Perhaps some elves were send in uthenera to dream on a certain reality.

I know tinfoil but ...hey.

[susanwb]

For reference, here is the one on the Dwarven chair in the Hissing Wastes. 

 

The Hissing Wastes Thaig is something like 1,000 years old.  As for the Cradle of Sulevin - is that an ancient Elven place or was it built during the Dalish period?  I can't remember (or remember if it was even stated in game one way or the other).  If Dalish - could the Dwarven and Elven ruins be contemporary?  I'm fuzzy on timelines.

[FernRain]

You know, you're right.  The Dwarven one is just a tad different. Now that I see them together I can see the differences.  But still, really close and clearly the same style (maybe same artist?).

 

Just went back to try and get a clearer image, the sun rays were hard to see in my first picture (from the Dwarven chair):

 

 

-

 

That motif around the sphere in the first and second image from Sulevin are the same if flipped (most of it at least).

 

Let's put on my tinfoil hat , there's a lot of talks of songs , and those songs have some magical effect , like Cole says the "old songs " pull him and he doesn't have to sleep or eat .Meaning it's not just his nature as a spirits granting him that.

Also there's talk of "dreams" , Mythal bringing dream and Solas chewing his own legs so he can escape the "old dream" or something...so it's possible something is dreaming Thedas.

Perhaps whatever the Sun is , and the Titans were doing that ...and the elves when they attack those had to create another dream , so the world would not unravel , might explain all the sleeping elves in coffins near the lyrium well in Trespassers.

Perhaps some elves were send in uthenera to dream on a certain reality.

I know tinfoil but ...hey.

 

It's an idea, that made me think of:

• Solas saying the world will burn in the chaos,
• The cults like the Fiery Promise and Empty Ones claiming the Maker would return to burn the earth (by removing the veil according to the Promisers),
• The sun burning the creations of the earth before Elgar'nan threw it in the abyss.

Maybe this sun will set all the lyrium in the world on fire, once the veil sets it free? The Seekers can do it, lyrium is capable of being set aflame by a fuse, gaatlok is based on lyrium and made from dragon venom(!?), deathroot and silverite (darkspawn are weak to silverite) which can then be set off by our fade-mark.

 

If titans span the entire world then lyrium must be running under the whole thing.

[Reznore57]

For reference, here is the one on the Dwarven chair in the Hissing Wastes. 

 

The Hissing Wastes Thaig is something like 1,000 years old.  As for the Cradle of Sulevin - is that an ancient Elven place or was it built during the Dalish period?  I can't remember (or remember if it was even stated in game one way or the other).  If Dalish - could the Dwarven and Elven ruins be contemporary?  I'm fuzzy on timelines.

 

I think the Hissing Wastes is supposed to be old like before the first Blight old so 1000years +?

The cradle is in the Dales , so 700 years old?But no clue if it was an ancient elven temple the Dalish  just restored or something brand new they build up ...

 

It's a bit complicated to know the difference because the Dalish always tried to mimic the old elves .

[susanwb]

I think the Hissing Wastes is supposed to be old like before the first Blight old so 1000years +?

The cradle is in the Dales , so 700 years old?But no clue if it was an ancient elven temple the Dalish  just restored or something brand new they build up ...

 

It's a bit complicated to know the difference because the Dalish always tried to mimic the old elves .

 

I know, the Dalish ruins are hard to distinguish from ancient Elven ones.  We know that the Dalish went to the Cradle of Sulevin to perform their blood magic ritual because the Veil was thin there.  That makes me think it's an ancient place.  If it were Dalish construction, you'd think it would have been busy and populated at the time, not a quiet spot to sneak off to and perform human sacrifice.  (and can I just say - ugh to that).

 

The image on the Dwarven chair looks to me like a fire/the sun is buried under the earth, out of which the vines are growing, and in the heart of the vines there are flames as well.  Out of the flames rises the venerated oval thing.  It makes me think of that art book drawing of the elf growing out of a plant and fire.  But here rather than an elf there is this oval thing - moon?  orb?  dragon egg?  What is it supposed to be?

[Reznore57]

Should I post the red Lyrium Idol so we can scratch our collective head at the number of weird thing coming out of the earth?

Dead looking elves , eggs , vines , flowers..Jeez.

 

Anyway I'll point out at the very least the picture is consistant with Dalish myth = the Sun being underground.

Tthe ancient elven lore found in DAI confirms Elgar'nan beat down a Sun entity (Elgar'nan Sun killer + his mosaic showing him holding down the Sun.)

 

Now so far underground we have the Titans , and the Old Gods , both type of creatures are asleep.

The Old Gods are held underground by some dark magic though...they would fit a bit more the Sun archetype than the Titans because I very much doubt the Titans ever flew in the sky and were able to fart fire .

 

Now of course there could be something else underground /cry.

[FernRain]

You know, you're right.  The Dwarven one is just a tad different. Now that I see them together I can see the differences.  But still, really close and clearly the same style (maybe same artist?).

 

I looked again and I think the Dwarven one is just missing some of the extra stuff from that one in Sulevin. Might be a clipping out the rest.

[azarhal]

I looked again and I think the Dwarven one is just missing some of the extra stuff from that one in Sulevin. Might be a clipping out the rest.

 

I'm pretty sure it is just clipping, might have been intentional though.

 

 

Now of course there could be something else underground /cry.

 

Just a big ball of radiating lyrium...

[FernRain]

Found the same one on the mausoleums in Unadin Grotto (Unadin means "never alone"), in Var Bellanaris ("Our Eternity").

Spoiler

It looks like four eluvians leading into the fade to me. Which fits with the elves believing they go to Falon'din in the fade when they die (or uthenera). So perhaps the oval is a symbol for the fade.

 

So in those other pictures, is the fade in the sky? Solas did say there were palaces floating in the sky.

 

And now that I have the pictures next to each other, the first and third from Sulevin are the same too except the 'sky' motif has been placed around the oval.

Modifié par FernRain, 15 octobre 2015 - 03:21 .

[Aulis Vaara]

Those vines also look like waves, and a little bit like dragons.

They seem to tell the story of "The Sun" breaking free.

An orb of flame surrounded by vines:


Six vines are not able to hold the fire in:


Six vines and we know there are seven old gods. Maybe there were seven Titans as well, until the elves killed one and thus let out The Sun. In any case, with only six, it's an incomplete prison and he breaks free:

[Shari'El]

I know, the Dalish ruins are hard to distinguish from ancient Elven ones.  We know that the Dalish went to the Cradle of Sulevin to perform their blood magic ritual because the Veil was thin there.  That makes me think it's an ancient place.  If it were Dalish construction, you'd think it would have been busy and populated at the time, not a quiet spot to sneak off to and perform human sacrifice.  (and can I just say - ugh to that).

 

The image on the Dwarven chair looks to me like a fire/the sun is buried under the earth, out of which the vines are growing, and in the heart of the vines there are flames as well.  Out of the flames rises the venerated oval thing.  It makes me think of that art book drawing of the elf growing out of a plant and fire.  But here rather than an elf there is this oval thing - moon?  orb?  dragon egg?  What is it supposed to be?

 

The only ways to to distinguish between ruins is to looks for things like statues of Andraste (if there are there, these are Dalish ruins, like in Emerald Graves), runes and codices - Dirthamen's temple for example is ancient, we know that from a rune that speaks about the time Dirthamen went silent. 

The codex for Cradle of Sulevin speaks about the blade itself and of the cradle as the "accursed place where the elves attempted their ritual", they went there to try and harvest power by spilling the blood of the innocent. The things that summon those who hold the shards are like what we see in Dirthamen's temple, it says "take" when you approach them but... it just looks like scrolls? Reused game mechanics? 

 

You can see the cradles and some of the codices here:

Spoiler

 

I found at the time a worn elven writing that speaks of the cradle as a sacred place and that the reason they went there is that the Veil is thin (a place that has seen a lot of bloodshed?). Unfortunately it doesn't seem to appear in the codices and I only have one screenshot of it 

Anyhow, 4 humans have been sacrificed (the 4 revenants) at these 4 locations and it seems the place was sacred, it's probable that it is ancient.

 

If anyone happens to have screenshots of "Timeworn Elven Writing" that can be seen if you examine the statue of Falon'Din at the cradle - please post.

 

 

Found the same one on the mausoleums in Unadin Grotto (Unadin means "never alone"), in Var Bellanaris ("Our Eternity").

Spoiler

It looks like four eluvians leading into the fade to me. Which fits with the elves believing they go to Falon'din in the fade when they die (or uthenera). So perhaps the oval is a symbol for the fade.

 

So in those other pictures, is the fade in the sky? Solas did say there were palaces floating in the sky.

 

And now that I have the pictures next to each other, the first and third from Sulevin are the same too except the 'sky' motif has been placed around the oval.

 

Hmmm they really do look like eluvians, now I can't unsee it.

Soooo I know I may sound silly for keeping iterating the whole spirit-flower-elf thingy but it could be spirits leaves the fade -> buries itself in a plant -> becomes an elf. The last one in this case is the one you can't see the oval-egg-thingy since it has attached itself to a body.

I don't really believe this myself (sounds weird) but I don't want to rule it out.

[FernRain]

I'm definitely into the elf-plants theory.
 

 

Oh it looks like the bottom (from the sun to the beginning of the flames) matches the top.

 

I can't even think anymore . My brain is tired after drawing all night .

[Elista]

You know which emblem has flames, vines and dragon wings and dragon horns too ? Orlais emblem. Not sure what to make of that.

http://vignette4.wik.../20120925192837

Val Royeaux has "Sun gates". And the summer market has a strange look. Just as if something was chained in the middle by those ribbons. Orlais has something to do with the sun ? Maybe his prison is just beneath it ?? So much gold in the architecture... could be just a way to praise the Maker's light, of course, and show the city's wealth. But Orlais is probably close to what was the elven society, just without magic. Even the orlesian throne features elves... winged elves.

http://dragonage.wik...ar?file=Val.png

About this image...



... maybe my mind plays me tricks, but I see little characters at the top and bottom of it. A small character with a crown and a small elf with a desperate look and his legs and arms wide opened and vines clutching him and even mining into his body... to drink his blood ? There are drops or tears beneath. Starlight chambers... the stars were drops of the sun lifeblood. Did the Evanuris find the Sun in his prison and start exploiting his blood as they did with lyrium ?? Or am I seing things that aren't even there lol ??

[Shari'El]

I'm definitely into the elf-plants theory.
 

 

Oh it looks like the bottom (from the sun to the beginning of the flames) matches the top.

 

I can't even think anymore . My brain is tired after drawing all night .

 

lololol

It does matchhhhh, it's the EXACT model part.

Lazy modelling 

[myahele]

That image kinda looks like a stylized egyptian scarab symbol, which also represent the Sun:

 

I agree, it looks like something emerged from from the ground. It's emergence brought forth vines and lava/fire. Since we know that the dwarves (atleast certain thaigs) were conquered by the ancient elvhen I am more inclined to believe what we see in those thaigs are elvhen since that's really not how Dwarven artstyle is like.

 

The Elvhen know that the evanuris did not create the world, so maybe this might be part of their creation myth? How the Sun/Earth came to be? Surely, even the ancient elvhen scholars would have wanted to how the world came to be.

[Elista]

The codex entries about the Way if the three trees, that you find near these symbols, are a bit strange to me.

"Be swift and silent."

—Vir Assan: The Way of the Arrow

"As the sapling bends, so must you."

—Vir Bor'assan: The Way of the Bow

"Receive the gifts of the hunt with mindfulness."

—Vir Adahlen: The Way of the Wood

That is not what I remembered of the explanations in DAO when you play a Dalish Warden. The arrow was "go straight, do not waver", the bow "bend but do not break", the wood "together we are stronger than the one".

Maybe the sense of the teachings has been twisted through time like every legend. To become something better and meaninful, while it was a tool of propaganda/indoctrination in the first place ? These ancients texts say that you must bend, be grateful, swift and discreet... just as a good slave or servant ??

I still have a hard time seing the connections with the symbols. Are they teachings too ? A reminder of the way of the Sacrifice (the "real" Vir Tanadhal) ? And why three trees ? (Bow, arrow and wood are not trees).

[azarhal]

I think there is many things we do not understand of Andruil's teaching as do the Dalish, but I don't think they were propaganda. They really come off as teaching to me.

 

The codex of the Way of the Three Tree looks more like hunting/fighting guidelines to me than anything having to do with slaves.

 

"Be swift and silent" is a requirement for a hunter, otherwise he will lose his prey.

"Receive the gifts of the hunt with mindfulness" seems self-explanatory.

 

The "As the sapling bends, so must you" isn't that different from the "bow bend but do not break". It's similar to a few proverbs and fable that have the meaning of "be flexible when times are though":

Madaring Chinese: "The tree that does not bend with the wind will be broken by the wind"

Sukuma African: "The wind does not break a tree that bends".

Scottish: "Better bend than break"

Even Paul Atreid used it in Dune "I will bend like a reed in the wind". 

 

The Fable the Tree and the Reed of Aesop:

Well, little one," said a Tree to a Reed that was growing at its foot,
"why do you not plant your feet deeply in the ground, and raise your
head boldly in the air as I do?"

"I am contented with my lot," said the Reed. "I may not be so grand,
but I think I am safer."

"Safe!" sneered the Tree. "Who shall pluck me up by the roots or bow
my head to the ground?" But it soon had to repent of its boasting, for
a hurricane arose which tore it up from its roots, and cast it a
useless log on the ground, while the little Reed, bending to the force
of the wind, soon stood upright again when the storm had passed over.