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(Major Spoilers, Trespasser Edit) Ancient Accumulated Lore, Theories & Discussions 2.0


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#151
chaztehman

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http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Note:_The_Gates_of_Segrummar

Does anyone have insight into the gates of Segrummar in the deep roads? I didn't find much discussion about it online.

 

Excuse the weird formatting, tablet won't link here.

 

I completely forgot about those! I'm definately intrigued but I don't want to say much, except that it comes off at some golem. I want to say possibly early dwarves, whatever they were, but because all of these come from doors, and all the doors are only on the deeproad levels, it shouldn't be connected to something super titan old, but nearly after? The way it talks and writes with handstamps to what it becomes in the last entry (seemingly after the 'child' is sacrificed) reminds me of the typical AI stereotype in scifi movies. Hes obeying command, slowly finds identity and doubt, then rebels. Also a bit of Law to Chaos. The clawing could be darkspawn. The sigil is VERY interesting O.o Reminds me of the Kirkwall-is-a-giant-rune codex. And then it went into the Fade! Golems do have souls so they should be able to enter the fade?

 

EDIT: Actually I'm now thinking the golem is the child, and someone else wrote the last one.

I want to know how the Old God dragons got underground too! They couldn't have just walked through a door way from the surface, surely.

 

The orbs in the library also caught my attention, plus there are some behind one of the buildings. You're asking a lot of interesting questions Chaz :).

Hehe thanks :) I feel like thats the best I can do. Its a lot of fun thinking of possiblities, but we know Bioware is holding big plot holes so DA4 can't be ruined. Did anyone see the Solas and Flemythal climax coming from DA2? Obviously Flemmeth got dressed up, but thats as close as it got. Its not about finding the right answers, but asking the right questions to prepare for the answers coming.

Edit* Im putting everything under a spoiler as a] this is a long post b] i am probably so wrong, lacking the lore knowledge the rest of you have so i dont spam the thread with my silliness :unsure: :blush:

 

Spoiler

Lmao I think those 'wavy lines' from his backside was a fart :P The captive was making a silly doodle.


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#152
Abelis

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-snip-

Lmao I think those 'wavy lines' from his backside was a fart :P The captive was making a silly doodle.

haha yes this seems more plausible :D :lol: 


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#153
Shari'El

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Spoiler

 

This statue. The succubus.

She's everywhere, Emprise du Lion (titsicles), Hissing Wastes, the Fade.

Before I saw it in Trespasser I thought she was a Kossith, I'm really trying to figure out who or what is she supposed to represent, the elven empire predates Tevinter, so does this mean the origin of these statues are elven? I can't see elves allowing humans to walk around and erect statues in their realm, and I can't see humans entering the crossroads post Veil since the eluvians requires keys, the Veil destroyed some of the paths and non-elves don't really fit in the crossroads - so I can't see them just marching in and setting camp there.

Another thing that bothers me, I played the game for five minutes to make sure - these statues appear beneath Judicael's Crossing (a fallen bridge we need to reconstruct) and on a twin bridge (that was entirely broken).

 

Spoiler

 

If these are in the end elven statues, the bridge could've been reconstructed above old elven ruins but it is kind of weird since it is said Judicael's Crossing replaced an ancient fallen highway that led to the Pools of the Sun (which is considered sacred ground for elves) and mimics the style of the ancient Tevinter bridge it replaced.

 

What the crap? 

 

If these statues appear in elven ruins but are considered Tevinter architecture what the hell does that mean? It was said Tevinter was built on the dead bodies of the elves and that they stole a lot of their knowledge from them, but why would these statues be part of what they stole?

Perhaps it is a misinterpretation by those who rebuilt the highway? Perhaps there is a deeper connection we are unware of?

 

Perhaps the level designer recycled assets? I doubt that because they had to put extra effort to create the titsicles or the waterfall cascading over the titsicles lady in the shattered library. It is easier to just put more rocks there, or to just put Mythal's statues.

 

-snip-

 

Got it now, I think our opinions are quite the same then, we just express ourselves differently.

 

one last note on number 7

is there a significance that in the black circle surrounding this innermost, are 14 'eyes'?'heads'?'pillars'? this 7 number is so weird. Ehh im off to sleep, pretty late, also better to clear my head :wacko:

0lsb2TI.jpg

 

Seven magisters, seven Old Gods, seven corrupt Evanuris, seven times seventy men of stone immense...


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#154
Qun00

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Solas said the creation of the Veil took away people's connection to the Fade, and returning to this world "felt like walking among tranquil" to him.

Does it mean all people were mages back then?

#155
Tielis

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This statue. The succubus.

She's everywhere, Emprise du Lion (titsicles), Hissing Wastes, the Fade.

Before I saw it in Trespasser I thought she was a Kossith, I'm really trying to figure out who or what is she supposed to represent, the elven empire predates Tevinter, so does this mean the origin of these statues are elven? I can't see elves allowing humans to walk around and erect statues in their realm, and I can't see humans entering the crossroads post Veil since the eluvians requires keys, the Veil destroyed some of the paths and non-elves don't really fit in the crossroads - so I can't see them just marching in and setting camp there.

Another thing that bothers me, I played the game for five minutes to make sure - these statues appear beneath Judicael's Crossing (a fallen bridge we need to reconstruct) and on a twin bridge (that was entirely broken).

 

Spoiler

 

If these are in the end elven statues, the bridge could've been reconstructed above old elven ruins but it is kind of weird since it is said Judicael's Crossing replaced an ancient fallen highway that led to the Pools of the Sun (which is considered sacred ground for elves) and mimics the style of the ancient Tevinter bridge it replaced.

 

What the crap? 

 

If these statues appear in elven ruins but are considered Tevinter architecture what the hell does that mean? It was said Tevinter was built on the dead bodies of the elves and that they stole a lot of their knowledge from them, but why would these statues be part of what they stole?

Perhaps it is a misinterpretation by those who rebuilt the highway? Perhaps there is a deeper connection we are unware of?

 

Perhaps the level designer recycled assets? I doubt that because they had to put extra effort to create the titsicles or the waterfall cascading over the titsicles lady in the shattered library. It is easier to just put more rocks there, or to just put Mythal's statues.

 

 

Got it now, I think our opinions are quite the same then, we just express ourselves differently.

 

 

Seven magisters, seven Old Gods, seven corrupt Evanuris, seven times seventy men of stone immense...

 

To me those statues scream Mythal the dragon lady.  The "snake" is her tail wrapped around her.



#156
Shari'El

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To me those statues scream Mythal the dragon lady.  The "snake" is her tail wrapped around her.

 

It is quite dragon-y, but all of the Evanuris could've shapeshifted to dragons and Mythal is usually a lot more heavy on the dragon symbolism than what we see here...

If I were to choose an Evanuri I would pick Andruil, she looks fierce and I can imagine her adorning her body with hunt trophies...

There was also the thought of Ghilan'nain (because of her inhumane inelfe experiements, a serpent's tail and horns? sounds like one of her sad chimeras) but she is described as a beautiful with white hair (though this could be entirely false).

 

The elves have really different styles of statues, they feel so indecisive  :lol:

 

We have these simplistic shapes, statues without too many details and a lot of curves:

Spoiler

 

Then we have these statues, still simplistic but with harsh lines and square shapes:

Spoiler

 

We also have these statues, which are more realistic in terms of proportions and details

Spoiler

 

We have these abominations:

Spoiler

 

And lastly, I think this is elven as well (when I saw it I thought it was Mythal, even if it is very abstract)

Spoiler

 

Are all of these from different times? What's up with the inconsistency? XD

 

Edit:

We have statues of Falon'Din (owl and pointing statue), Dirthamen (raven and hooded figure), Mythal (dragon and dragon-lady), Fen'Harel (two variation of wolves), Ghilan'nain (hart statue) and possibly Elgar'nan (swirly belly, abomination-like statue, I tend to think it is him because I kind of imagine him as a monster with his various shapes, plus an identical statue that can be found in the Western Approach emits heat, we have a codex depicting his a statue of him with a snarling mouth and blazing eyes. It could be the same type of statue and that magic that made its' eyes blaze waned over the years)... So no Andruil?

We have a statue of an elven archer, but it's so generic, I don't see it fitting a goddess, plus Andruil seems to like spears more than bow and arrow (though her mosaic depicts her with a bow, so there's that).


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#157
jthibeault

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Ok, first, Hi, I’m new. *waves*
 
Second, thank you for all the work that has gone into this thread it is impressive and immensely interesting! I have read through almost all of the responses though I confess I skimmed over a few so I apologize if what I’m about to add has been mentioned already.
 
 
Shari’El, that statue in the crossroads with the wings and the spikey head gave me pause as well. My first reaction to it was “wings look like Mythal, top/head looks like … chantry?"
 
 
Ok, now on to some things that I thought of while reading through all 7 pages. 
 
 
There was discussion about how stuff with Solas, the evanuris imprisonment, and the Old Gods imprisonment might connect with the blight/killing the Archdemons. I recalled this Solas/Blackwall conversation and I just want to throw it out there as something interesting.
 
"
  • Solas: Your Order... the Grey Wardens...
  • Blackwall: Not my Order, as you well know.
  • Solas: Of course, but you may still have an answer.
  • Blackwall: What about them?
  • Solas: The Wardens see themselves as the world's defense against the Blight, do they not?
  • Blackwall: Yes... why do you sound so skeptical? Doesn't everyone know this?
  • Solas: When an Archdemon rises, they slay it. What will they do when all the Archdemons are slain?
  • Blackwall: Retire?
  • Solas: Without Archdemons, there can be no Blights. Is that the reasoning?
  • Blackwall: Right. Where are you going with this?
  • Solas: Nowhere. I hope they are correct.
 
He seems skeptical about the idea that there will be no more Blights without Archdemons and like he only just figured out for the first time that this is what the Grey Wardens think will happen. 
 
 
 
Next is about the talk of Solas maybe or maybe not originally being a spirit. Again I just want to add this as it came to mind when I was reading those posts and I don’t know if it actually means anything or not.
 
"
  • Cole: You don't need to envy me, Solas. You can find happiness in your own way.
  • Solas: I apologize for disturbing you, Cole. I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths.
  • Cole: They are not gone so long as you remember them.
  • Solas: I know.
  • Cole: But you could let them go.
  • Solas: I know that as well.
  • Cole: You didn't do it to be right. You did it to save them.
  • Inquisitor: Solas, what is Cole talking about?
  • Solas: A mistake. One of many made by a much younger elf who was certain he knew everything.
  • Cole: You weren't wrong, though.
  • Solas: Thank you, Cole.
"
*Note that he also says “I am not a spirit” but perhaps that is also an “omission” moment where it could have been “I am no longer a spirit.” It could just as easily be not, however. I found it interesting that he would be feeling envy towards Cole.
(I have my own thoughts about Solas not being a spirit but rather originally a commoner, one of Mythal’s people perhaps, who did not like to see his fellow common people suffer. He tends to point out the common folk in party banter but I admit that what started me thinking on this path was his paintings lol. It’s something common servants or slaves are often brought in to rich cities or mansions to do. It seems like something he must have been good at before he got very involved with war and rebellion because when the heck would he have time to learn afterwards.? Just my own idle thoughts though.)
 
 
 
And the final thing I wanted to add is this … um I seem to have forgotten what in this thread prompted me to make note of it though. I’m sorry, there are just so many thoughts!
 
"
  • Cole: Is there a way to save more spirits, Solas?
  • Solas: Not until the Veil is healed. The rifts draw spirits through, and the shock makes demons of them.
  • Cole: Pushing through makes you be yourself. You can hold onto the you.
  • Cole: Being pulled through means you don't have enough you. You become what batters you, bruises your being.
  • Solas: Yes, exactly. Deliberately crossing the Veil requires that a spirit form will, personality.
  • Solas: That concept of self gives a spirit the chance to maintain its nature.
  • Solas: Wrenched into this world unwillingly by the rifts, spirits suffer the same fate as my friend.
  • Cole: Then we will help them.

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#158
Tielis

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Next is about the talk of Solas maybe or maybe not originally being a spirit. Again I just want to add this as it came to mind when I was reading those posts and I don’t know if it actually means anything or not.
 
"
  • Cole: You don't need to envy me, Solas. You can find happiness in your own way.
  • Solas: I apologize for disturbing you, Cole. I am not a spirit, and sometimes it is hard to remember such simple truths.
  • Cole: They are not gone so long as you remember them.
  • Solas: I know.
  • Cole: But you could let them go.
  • Solas: I know that as well.
  • Cole: You didn't do it to be right. You did it to save them.
  • Inquisitor: Solas, what is Cole talking about?
  • Solas: A mistake. One of many made by a much younger elf who was certain he knew everything.
  • Cole: You weren't wrong, though.
  • Solas: Thank you, Cole.
"
*Note that he also says “I am not a spirit” but perhaps that is also an “omission” moment where it could have been “I am no longer a spirit.” It could just as easily be not, however. I found it interesting that he would be feeling envy towards Cole.
(I have my own thoughts about Solas not being a spirit but rather originally a commoner, one of Mythal’s people perhaps, who did not like to see his fellow common people suffer. He tends to point out the common folk in party banter but I admit that what started me thinking on this path was his paintings lol. It’s something common servants or slaves are often brought in to rich cities or mansions to do. It seems like something he must have been good at before he got very involved with war and rebellion because when the heck would he have time to learn afterwards.? Just my own idle thoughts though.)
 
 
 
And the final thing I wanted to add is this … um I seem to have forgotten what in this thread prompted me to make note of it though. I’m sorry, there are just so many thoughts!
 
"
  • Cole: Is there a way to save more spirits, Solas?
  • Solas: Not until the Veil is healed. The rifts draw spirits through, and the shock makes demons of them.
  • Cole: Pushing through makes you be yourself. You can hold onto the you.
  • Cole: Being pulled through means you don't have enough you. You become what batters you, bruises your being.
  • Solas: Yes, exactly. Deliberately crossing the Veil requires that a spirit form will, personality.
  • Solas: That concept of self gives a spirit the chance to maintain its nature.
  • Solas: Wrenched into this world unwillingly by the rifts, spirits suffer the same fate as my friend.
  • Cole: Then we will help them.

 

 

I don't remember if anyone brought it up in this thread yet, but there is this conversation that makes me think the "spirit becoming Solas" thing is correct.

 

(if Cole becomes more human)
 
Solas: How do you feel, Cole, now that you dealt with the Templar?
Cole: I don't know. He hurt me... hurt the real Cole. I'm angry at him.
Cole: I can't let that go. I have to become more, let it make me real.
Solas: You may well become fully human, after all. I never thought to see it.
Cole: When did you see it before?
Solas: I did not say that I had.
Cole: No, you didn't. It's harder to hear, sometimes. Sorry.
Solas: Good luck, Cole. You have taken a difficult road.

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#159
jthibeault

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Yes! There was that conversation too.

I always pay attention when Cole speaks :D



#160
Reznore57

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One more thing about the elves being spirit hints:

When talking with Cole with elven Inquisitor and asking him what he sees in him."Pulled.Blood that isn't blood...."

I assumed "Pulled " means pulled from the fade , and blood that isn't blood ..well I'm beginning to think , spirits turning to flesh wasn't just a simple matter.

We only had Cole as an example , and he was able to cross the veil after someone died (true Cole) , the veil was still there intact so the veil wasn't the main problem I imagine .

Also at first Cole was killing people , and he thought if he didn't do it , he would be pulled back into the Fade.

It could be true since Solas says blood magic make it harder to reach the Fade.

 

Also to keep on with my dragon obsession , the only change is...dragons are coming back.And not just coming back , dragons are getting bigger and bigger.And they are supposed to be the "blood of the world".

The OGB says the elven Inquisitor has the "old blood" , if dragons are the blood of the world , well them and Titans would have the oldest blood, I imagine.

 

We can also guess ancient elves have used blood magic , since Solas isn't against it , but there's no details about it.

Also the Dark Ritual , Flemythal taught to Morrigan was in part blood magic , again no details .

Last point if the elves used blood magic , what would they use it for?

Binding spirits and demons?It seems most of the spirits didn't need to be bound.

Mind control?If they were somniari , they didn't need blood magic to mind control.

Blood magic also has an effect on the veil , but there was no veil.



#161
chaztehman

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Spoiler

 

If these are in the end elven statues, the bridge could've been reconstructed above old elven ruins but it is kind of weird since it is said Judicael's Crossing replaced an ancient fallen highway that led to the Pools of the Sun (which is considered sacred ground for elves) and mimics the style of the ancient Tevinter bridge it replaced.

 

What the crap? 

 

If these statues appear in elven ruins but are considered Tevinter architecture what the hell does that mean? It was said Tevinter was built on the dead bodies of the elves and that they stole a lot of their knowledge from them, but why would these statues be part of what they stole?

Perhaps it is a misinterpretation by those who rebuilt the highway? Perhaps there is a deeper connection we are unware of?

 

Perhaps the level designer recycled assets? I doubt that because they had to put extra effort to create the titsicles or the waterfall cascading over the titsicles lady in the shattered library. It is easier to just put more rocks there, or to just put Mythal's statues.

 

 

Got it now, I think our opinions are quite the same then, we just express ourselves differently.

 

 

Seven magisters, seven Old Gods, seven corrupt Evanuris, seven times seventy men of stone immense...

[/spoiler

I also think I can see a dragon tail around (or halfway around) the neck of the Tevinter helmet guy.

http://forum.bioware...en-perspective/

I have never finished the gold mosaic tablet things so I went to look them up. This guy has some interesting theories that might be worth a read. I can't say I follow them all but the general idea of "something is not right here" is definately true. Mostly though he has good pictures of them and also quotes the dwarf. If you really look, in many of the tablets the tevineter or elf or whatever you think they are, have tiny horns. In some they have 6 tiny horns(very obvious in the last). Also plenty of obvious qunari in there. Old tevinter/ old whatever it was may not have been all one race, or often had hybrids that we don't see today.

Another big thing, It always drove me NUTS that we had no picture of Elgar'nan even though he is the All-father... it makes no sense(Besides the near dragonlike skull in origins?). So when this guy connects the eye on the back of one of the character's heads to the eyes we see the red lyrium captin writing on his wall... interesting. Doesn't need to be Elgar'nan, but the connection to the bloody eye drawings and symbol seems close enough to be some truth.

Some other things to note in the tablet things.. obvious pointed ears. Not long, but pointed still.

Also in the Archedemon tablets, the biggest of the 7 looks EXACTLY like the Maker... WTF!

Andraste_and_Maker_WoT.jpg


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#162
Tielis

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Okay after that last post a stray thought came into my head, but I have no idea how to even explain it, neither do I understand it.

 

What if the spirits were the ones doing blood magic?  I mean, on people?  Creating a shell to go into?  Or... crap, nope, there it goes again.  *waves the thought goodbye*

 

I think Morrigan's ritual may be a lot more important than we're giving it credit for.

 

Edit:  All right.  What if elves were created by drawing a spirit into a child in the womb?  Mythal is the mother goddess, perhaps she perfected this ritual.  And there is no "shape" for Elgar'nan because duh, he's a spirit.



#163
Reznore57

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Another big thing, It always drove me NUTS that we had no picture of Elgar'nan even though he is the All-father... it makes no sense(Besides the near dragonlike skull in origins?). So when this guy connects the eye on the back of one of the character's heads to the eyes we see the red lyrium captin writing on his wall... interesting. Doesn't need to be Elgar'nan, but the connection to the bloody eye drawings and symbol seems close enough to be some truth.

 

There's a mosaic of Elgar'nan where he's holding the sun down.

But Elgar'nan is also driving me nuts because for the All Father ,Equal of Mythal...there is very little about him.No statues for example.

It seems he was just a beast on Mythal's leash, but it seems like he was very hot headed so I can't imagine those two getting along.

I just totally can imagine him chopping Mythal head off after a while.

Besides at one point Mythal made Fen Harel her champion or guard , so yeah...I'm sensing a story here.


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#164
chaztehman

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Okay after that last post a stray thought came into my head, but I have no idea how to even explain it, neither do I understand it.

 

What if the spirits were the ones doing blood magic?  I mean, on people?  Creating a shell to go into?  Or... crap, nope, there it goes again.  *waves the thought goodbye*

 

I think Morrigan's ritual may be a lot more important than we're giving it credit for.

 

Edit:  All right.  What if elves were created by drawing a spirit into a child in the womb?  Mythal is the mother goddess, perhaps she perfected this ritual.  And there is no "shape" for Elgar'nan because duh, he's a spirit.

In Origins a researcher/mage/warden named Avernus tells us spirits knew everything about blood magic, but they had no idea about the blight. So yeah, whatever yout thinking is something, we just are missing some pieces so everything we throw out will seem far fetched...



#165
jthibeault

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I also think I can see a dragon tail around (or halfway around) the neck of the Tevinter helmet guy.

I have never finished the gold mosaic tablet things so I went to look them up. This guy has some interesting theories that might be worth a read. I can't say I follow them all but the general idea of "something is not right here" is definately true. Mostly though he has good pictures of them and also quotes the dwarf. If you really look, in many of the tablets the tevineter or elf or whatever you think they are, have tiny horns. In some they have 6 tiny horns(very obvious in the last). Also plenty of obvious qunari in there. Old tevinter/ old whatever it was may not have been all one race, or often had hybrids that we don't see today.

Another big thing, It always drove me NUTS that we had no picture of Elgar'nan even though he is the All-father... it makes no sense(Besides the near dragonlike skull in origins?). So when this guy connects the eye on the back of one of the character's heads to the eyes we see the red lyrium captin writing on his wall... interesting. Doesn't need to be Elgar'nan, but the connection to the bloody eye drawings and symbol seems close enough to be some truth.

Some other things to note in the tablet things.. obvious pointed ears. Not long, but pointed still.

Also in the Archedemon tablets, the biggest of the 7 looks EXACTLY like the Maker... WTF!

Andraste_and_Maker_WoT.jpg

Sweet, I've been wondering about these mosaics. Do you have a link to this guy's theories?



#166
chaztehman

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Rofl woops, yeah I just added it to the post.



#167
FrankWisdom

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Ignore this I double posted instead of editing. My bad.


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#168
FrankWisdom

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Seven magisters, seven Old Gods, seven corrupt Evanuris, seven times seventy men of stone immense...

 

 

To be fair, there were 7 Magisters who breached the city because their are 7 Old Gods... They were after all, their high priests. The rest is quite interesting though.

 

This statue. The succubus.

She's everywhere, Emprise du Lion (titsicles), Hissing Wastes, the Fade.

Before I saw it in Trespasser I thought she was a Kossith, I'm really trying to figure out who or what is she supposed to represent, the elven empire predates Tevinter, so does this mean the origin of these statues are elven? I can't see elves allowing humans to walk around and erect statues in their realm, and I can't see humans entering the crossroads post Veil since the eluvians requires keys, the Veil destroyed some of the paths and non-elves don't really fit in the crossroads - so I can't see them just marching in and setting camp there.

Another thing that bothers me, I played the game for five minutes to make sure - these statues appear beneath Judicael's Crossing (a fallen bridge we need to reconstruct) and on a twin bridge (that was entirely broken).

 

Spoiler

 

If these are in the end elven statues, the bridge could've been reconstructed above old elven ruins but it is kind of weird since it is said Judicael's Crossing replaced an ancient fallen highway that led to the Pools of the Sun (which is considered sacred ground for elves) and mimics the style of the ancient Tevinter bridge it replaced.

 

What the crap? 

 

If these statues appear in elven ruins but are considered Tevinter architecture what the hell does that mean? It was said Tevinter was built on the dead bodies of the elves and that they stole a lot of their knowledge from them, but why would these statues be part of what they stole?

Perhaps it is a misinterpretation by those who rebuilt the highway? Perhaps there is a deeper connection we are unware of?

 

Perhaps the level designer recycled assets? I doubt that because they had to put extra effort to create the titsicles or the waterfall cascading over the titsicles lady in the shattered library. It is easier to just put more rocks there, or to just put Mythal's statues.

 

 

As for Titsicles (I rather IcicleTits, rolls off the tongue nicely :ph34r:) I'm also curious. We know that Magisters had Qunari (Kossith, I'll get to that in a second) slaves at one point because of the Mason's Tales.

 

Freed are The Slaves

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

Sacrifice

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

Both Freed Are The Slaves and Sacrifice depict horned beings with two masons having worked on the mosaic, one much older than the other. The old part had been carved over with new forms to hide specific details.

 

I believe the old carvings are very old indeed. The Kossith arrived in thedas in -410 Ancient... 15 years before the Magisters entered the Golden City.

 

The titles of both Mosaics Sacrifice and Freed are the slaves...  Seem to hint at "sacrifices" used for blood magic, which we know was sorely abused in ancient Tevinter, especially in preparation to breach the Golden City. The slaves are Kossith in my opinion, who's (dragon) blood would fuel spells with even greater effect, given its nature.

 

It makes me wonder why the Quanri left for so long (1000 years, give or take) and came back ready (in 6:30 Steel), as if knowing they had something specific to Conquer and change under the rule of the Qun. 

 

What if some Kossith, who saw and/or experienced what the Magisters did, (Enslaving and sacrificing their brethren, as well as the consequences of breaching the Golden City) were able to escape and sailed back to their homeland to warn the rest of the Kossith.

 

Sten as the new Arishok of the Qunari, mentions to King Alistair that the Tome of Koslun also speaks about the ancient Tevinter Imperium and the Old Gods. He explicitly says that "the Old Gods were like unto dragons, as the first human kings were like unto ordinary men"

 

Now I addressed this a little bit in my OP, but why would Ashkaari Koslun write about the Old Gods in the Tome of Koslun?

 

Because he was part of the Kossith who came to Thedas in -410 Ancient. I believe what he saw gave him a mission and a new perspective on what he thought he knew. Everything he described in his Tome was about what he saw in Tevinter as well as his own culture.

 

i.e. Long ago, the Ashkaari lived in a great city by the sea. Wealth and prosperity shone upon the city like sunlight, and still its people grumbled in discontent. The Ashkaari walked the streets of his home and saw that all around him were the signs of genius: triumphs of architecture, artistic masterpieces, the palaces of wealthy merchants, libraries, and concert halls. But he also saw signs of misery: the poor, sick, lost, frightened, and the hopeless. And the Ashkaari asked himself, "How can one people be both wise and ignorant, great and ruined, triumphant and despairing?"

 

So the Ashkaari left the land of his birth, seeking out other cities and nations, looking for a people who had found wisdom enough to end hopelessness and despair. He wandered for many years through empires filled with palaces and gardens, but in every nation of the wise, the great, the mighty, he found the forgotten, the abandoned, and the poor. Finally, he came to a vast desert, a wasteland of bare rock clawing at the empty sky, where he took shelter in the shadow of a towering rock, and resolved to meditate until he found his answer or perished.

Many days passed until one night, as he gazed out from the shadow of the rocks, he saw the lifeless desert awaken. A hundred thousand locusts hatched from the barren ground, and as one, they turned south, a single wave of moving earth. The Ashkaari rose and followed in their wake: a path of devastation miles wide, the once verdant land turned to waste. And the Ashkaari's eyes were opened.

 

I believe this is why he developed the Qun. He was said to be a traveler.

 

Given all these hints, I think it makes sense. There are still a lot of gaps to fill and I'm planning to make a post about The Kossith, The Tirashan and Kal Sharok, The trinity of very weird. very mysterious crap and compile the info we have on them.

 

Anyways all this to highlight IcicleTits. I also think she was Kossith. perhaps not. If she was present even in the Elvhen times, it might represent the oldest "sin" as Solas mentions that the only thing older than fear is probably desire.

 

It could very well have been a developer design choice, but like you said, it seems too intricate of a detail to add in these specific places, especially if it could add continuity issues to the lore.

 

In fact to relate to the Qunari invasion, particularly of Par Vollen, the ancient humans who were said to have created the pyramids found there did not struggle when the Qunari invaded. In fact, they willingly converted. A race said to be quite scientifically and technologically advanced put up no resistance. Why? It is speculated to be because of what they found inside the pyramids. Here is a description of the pyramids themselves as well as what was found inside.

 

"Amazingly, the pyramids' proportions are mathematically perfect. Since their alignment is so precise, one suspects they served some scientific purpose. Observatories, perhaps? Andvan Therastes has observed that the shape of the Par Vollen pyramids seems perfectly to match the constellation Solium"

 

Solium Codex:

 

The second interpretation is that this constellation originally represented Elgar'nan, the head of the elven pantheon who was also known as "Eldest of the Sun."

 

Ok, me emphasizing the "head" of the elvhen pantheon is stretching it. I know they mean the leader at the forefront, yet I still find it ironic that this detail is present when talking about the Solium codex which the Pyramids supposedly match perfectly, where "tall, horned (head) figures are depicted, always in a position of authority and respect. (shaped in their maker's image perhaps?)

 

"We know more of the pyramids than we do of the humans who built them. The Qunari came to Par Vollen as conquerors, but there is no history and little sign of battles fought on the island's shores. A civilization that could build such vast cities would surely have defenses, armies, perhaps weapons alien even to the Qunari. So why is there so little proof of resistance?"

 

"One answer may lie in what remains of their temples. Beneath the leaves and vines covering the walls, you can still make out the stylized carvings that adorn them. The paint has long since flaked away, but the silhouettes are clear: intricate sea creatures, shipwrights, musicians, archers, and kings. Here and there, odd figures are depicted, tall, horned, always in a position of authority and respect."

 

"What were these horned figures to the ancients of Par Vollen? Priests, ritualistically crowned? Heroes? Gods, perhaps? We may never know the truth. But when the Qunari arrived from the sea, horned and carrying the word of the Qun, perhaps instead of conquerors, the people of Par Vollen saw an old legend returning to them."

 

What made me think of all this, is the damn mosaic I posted, inverted...

 

 

 

5WIkxdz.png

 

Do they not look like horns to you? As I mentioned on page 5... Par Vollen could have been worshiping Elgar'Nan who perhaps had horns, or wore crown in that stylistic manner. We also have no idea what led to the Kossith being changed, what made their blood "polluted" or why they are said to be a "mistake".

 

Anyways, food for thought guys, let me know what you think.


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#169
Reznore57

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Looking at the picture...it could be the death of Mythal perhaps ?

I'm a bit fuzzy about the whole thing but was Solas freeing the slaves and claiming the Gods were fake when Mythal was still alive?



#170
FrankWisdom

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We have statues of Falon'Din (owl and pointing statue), Dirthamen (raven and hooded figure), Mythal (dragon and dragon-lady), Fen'Harel (two variation of wolves), Ghilan'nain (hart statue) and possibly Elgar'nan (swirly belly, abomination-like statue, I tend to think it is him because I kind of imagine him as a monster with his various shapes, plus an identical statue that can be found in the Western Approach emits heat, we have a codex depicting his a statue of him with a snarling mouth and blazing eyes. It could be the same type of statue and that magic that made its' eyes blaze waned over the years)... So no Andruil?

We have a statue of an elven archer, but it's so generic, I don't see it fitting a goddess, plus Andruil seems to like spears more than bow and arrow (though her mosaic depicts her with a bow, so there's that).

 

 

I think what made the eyes blazing was the servants i.e. slaves, who made the statue. How

 

this sums it up

 

The pages of this book—memory?—describe a monument made in a single afternoon by a thousand-thousand toiling servants swarming over a lump of fallen stone as large as a collapsed mountain. By the end of the day, the stern figure of Elgar'nan stares down into a valley, carved out from the foothills of the rock. The slaves have disappeared. Light radiates from the eidolon's narrowed eyes and its open, snarling mouth.

"Hail Elgar'nan, first among the gods! Mark his victory eternal!"

 

I think "The slaves have disappeared" means more than showcasing they left after they finished. It's also not written to describe how fast they worked, those details are already explained to us in the previous line.

 

No, I believe they mentioned them disappearing specifically to hint at them being used as a blood sacrifice. Right after stating the slaves have disappeared, the codex goes on to describe the statues magical attributes (which I think are due to that sacrifice), as well as depicting Elgar'nan's features, his arrogance, his entitlement. Victory Eternal.

 

What a P.rick...


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#171
azarhal

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I also think I can see a dragon tail around (or halfway around) the neck of the Tevinter helmet guy.

http://forum.bioware...en-perspective/

I have never finished the gold mosaic tablet things so I went to look them up. This guy has some interesting theories that might be worth a read. I can't say I follow them all but the general idea of "something is not right here" is definately true. Mostly though he has good pictures of them and also quotes the dwarf. If you really look, in many of the tablets the tevineter or elf or whatever you think they are, have tiny horns. In some they have 6 tiny horns(very obvious in the last). Also plenty of obvious qunari in there. Old tevinter/ old whatever it was may not have been all one race, or often had hybrids that we don't see today.

Another big thing, It always drove me NUTS that we had no picture of Elgar'nan even though he is the All-father... it makes no sense(Besides the near dragonlike skull in origins?). So when this guy connects the eye on the back of one of the character's heads to the eyes we see the red lyrium captin writing on his wall... interesting. Doesn't need to be Elgar'nan, but the connection to the bloody eye drawings and symbol seems close enough to be some truth.

Some other things to note in the tablet things.. obvious pointed ears. Not long, but pointed still.

Also in the Archedemon tablets, the biggest of the 7 looks EXACTLY like the Maker... WTF!

Andraste_and_Maker_WoT.jpg

 

You know, any painting of Andraste with her not being ginger is historically inaccurate.  Which means most of them, I don't think I've seen a single redhead Andraste painting.

 

For reference, Cassandra mention how Andraste was a ginger in DAI (well Sera says she though she was and Cassandra says she was) and I believe there is another reference prior to that game somewhere because I remember knowing that obscure fact prior to playing the game. Might be somewhere in DAO Temple of Sacred Ashes.

 

As for Elgar'nan  being the All-Father, I get the feeling that's more Dalish misunderstanding.



#172
FrankWisdom

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I also think I can see a dragon tail around (or halfway around) the neck of the Tevinter helmet guy.

http://forum.bioware...en-perspective/

I have never finished the gold mosaic tablet things so I went to look them up. This guy has some interesting theories that might be worth a read. I can't say I follow them all but the general idea of "something is not right here" is definately true. Mostly though he has good pictures of them and also quotes the dwarf. If you really look, in many of the tablets the tevineter or elf or whatever you think they are, have tiny horns. In some they have 6 tiny horns(very obvious in the last). Also plenty of obvious qunari in there. Old tevinter/ old whatever it was may not have been all one race, or often had hybrids that we don't see today.

 

Another big thing, It always drove me NUTS that we had no picture of Elgar'nan even though he is the All-father... it makes no sense(Besides the near dragonlike skull in origins?). So when this guy connects the eye on the back of one of the character's heads to the eyes we see the red lyrium captin writing on his wall... interesting. Doesn't need to be Elgar'nan, but the connection to the bloody eye drawings and symbol seems close enough to be some truth.

Some other things to note in the tablet things.. obvious pointed ears. Not long, but pointed still.

Also in the Archedemon tablets, the biggest of the 7 looks EXACTLY like the Maker... WTF!

 

It's really weird that you brought this up. The comment I wrote in response to your titsicle post was before I read this. It all actually addresses this post as well... Weird crap is going on.

 

Anyways make sure you check the post I'm talking about then and let me know what you think. In the meantime I might as well post the mosaics for you guys. I've collected them all a few times and took screens of them as well as all the codex entries.

 

The main ones you should check out is those I referenced in my earlier post. Sacrifice and Freed are The Slaves.

 

 

Freed are The Slaves

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

Sacrifice

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

Invasion

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

The Archdemon

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

The Fall

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

I'll also add the Sacrifice and Freed are the Slaves Mosaics and Codices to my other post. Hope it helps you guys theory craft ;)



#173
kukumburr

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Spoiler

 

I can definitely see the horned figure chained upside down and bleeding. And comparing it to the Sacrifice mosaic:

 

Spoiler

 

It's interesting that in the codex for this it mentions that the man being hanged in the center originally had horns and was (presumably) a qunari. 


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#174
jthibeault

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Ohhhh!

Full versions of the trespasser murals!

http://nthornborrow....w-tarot-cards-i

I know there was talk of the murals further back. Look at the one with the two Solas(?) on either side and all the orbs around the central orb. It looks like there is a city behind all the little lights surrounding the black orb in the center.


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#175
jthibeault

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Also what is up with the "auras" for lack of a better word surrounding the elves in the mural where Solas is removing the vallaslin? They have weird shapes/symbols inside them and the ones on the left appear to be connected to the orb shape on the left.


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