54 réponses à ce sujet

[Vit246]

Are we ever gonna see Mythal in Flemeth model again?

[azarhal]

Are we ever gonna see Mythal in Flemeth model again?

 

Probably not, with Morrigan being the "inheritor", we will probably get Morrythal instead of Flemythal.

[Aren]

I'm really tired of Morrigan and Mythal,i already tried to kill them both in DAO and they survived due to Gaider plot shield,especially Morrigan of whom my warden instea to finish her beyond the mirror  stepped back out of my control.

Also i never accepted any deal with Mythal and her affiliates and so the old god and Loghain are dead.

Now again with this inheritor whole thing? If this is the direction i have nothing to do but to help the other "side" Solas to petrify her and finish her for good this time just like he did with FLemeth.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

I'm really tired of Morrigan and Mythal,i already tried to kill them both in DAO and they survived due to Gaider plot shield,especially Morrigan of whom my warden instea to finish her beyond the mirror  stepped back out of my control.

 

This ,i if they will finish and close all plots from previous games moving onto something new they may make me intrested in series again.

[kimgoold]

Why does everyone assume he (Solas) absorbed Mythal from Flemeth, he might just have absorbed the magical element of Flemeth. I believe that Mythal sacrificed her current body (Flemeth) and its magical abilities to Solas and sent the true Mythals Soul and knowledge and some magical abilities thru the mirror to be inherited by  Inky, Morrigan or Kieran.

 

This is why (I think) he won't tell all to Inky at end of trespasser because he knows the real Mythal is still out there and when she goes to the inquisitor (Who always drinks from well in my play thru); after they combine inky and Mythal he won't stand a chance, this is also why he doesn't save arm of inky, he's incapacitating a foe he knows will beat him!.

 

But I also believe Mythal will not act until the veil is broken so she can get revenge on all who betrayed her, the Evanuris and Solas.

[Patchwork]

Whether it's Flemythal or Morrythal I think her appearance will be limited to giving the new protag a DEM enabling them to go up against Solas or just giving some background information.

 

And maybe her Sentinels will part part of the final battle if DA4 goes with the allies approach. 

[Snowy-Ninja]

I believe Solas gobbled up Mythals soul / power which gave him the power boost needed to do what he did in Trespasser and take over the crossroads. So I think Mythal is gone or at least bound to Solas where she can no longer escape. If we do see a Solas Vs Mythal it will be Solas fighting Mythal within his mind like how Anders and Justice fought against one another.

The way I see it is Solas doesn't want to kill the Evanuris, Mythal wants them dead. Mythal could have resisted Solas (I doubt he was all that powerful when they met at the cross roads) but Mythal had a plan, Mythal (like Justice with Anders) allowed herself to become one with Solas so that she would and could influence Solas just as she did with Felmeth.She would use Solas to get to the Evanuris, the veil would be sundered and those who get in her way would be destroyed.

 

Would she feel bad of course she would they were friends and possibly lovers but as we have seen in this game Vengence is a powerful thing, It/He was the reason Anders blew up the chantry. Its odd but the more I think of Justice/Anders the more I think of Mythal, her desire to see the Evanuris brought to Justice seems to have corrupted her over time a worrying thought then that Solas could become Anders 2.0.

Vengeance is a theme running through this series: Mythal against the Evanuris, Justice against the Darkspawn, Broodmother against Architect, possibly HOF/Warden Commander against Arcitect for starting the fifth blight, Anders against the Circles, Cory against Dumat and the world.

While Flemythal is a woman hard to understand the motivations of because she is two women speaking through the one mind she has a plan  plan that would eventually use Solas to get what she wants.

 

I think at this point Flemeth began to realize just how far Mythal would go and so Flemeth wanted Morrigan to drink from the well of sorrows that that Morrigan would be able to defeat Mythal. Perhaps if you saved the OGB Flemeth will return (without mythal) to stand against Solas/mythal. 

[Aren]

I believe Solas gobbled up Mythals soul / power which gave him the power boost needed to do what he did in Trespasser and take over the crossroads. So I think Mythal is gone or at least bound to Solas where she can no longer escape. If we do see a Solas Vs Mythal it will be Solas fighting Mythal within his mind like how Anders and Justice fought against one another.

The way I see it is Solas doesn't want to kill the Evanuris, Mythal wants them dead. Mythal could have resisted Solas (I doubt he was all that powerful when they met at the cross roads) but Mythal had a plan, Mythal (like Justice with Anders) allowed herself to become one with Solas so that she would and could influence Solas just as she did with Felmeth.She would use Solas to get to the Evanuris, the veil would be sundered and those who get in her way would be destroyed.

 

Would she feel bad of course she would they were friends and possibly lovers but as we have seen in this game Vengence is a powerful thing, It/He was the reason Anders blew up the chantry. Its odd but the more I think of Justice/Anders the more I think of Mythal, her desire to see the Evanuris brought to Justice seems to have corrupted her over time a worrying thought then that Solas could become Anders 2.0.

Vengeance is a theme running through this series: Mythal against the Evanuris, Justice against the Darkspawn, Broodmother against Architect, possibly HOF/Warden Commander against Arcitect for starting the fifth blight, Anders against the Circles, Cory against Dumat and the world.

While Flemythal is a woman hard to understand the motivations of because she is two women speaking through the one mind she has a plan  plan that would eventually use Solas to get what she wants.

 

I think at this point Flemeth began to realize just how far Mythal would go and so Flemeth wanted Morrigan to drink from the well of sorrows that that Morrigan would be able to defeat Mythal. Perhaps if you saved the OGB Flemeth will return (without mythal) to stand against Solas/mythal. 

"Revenge" not "Vengeance" is a recurring theme into the series.

"Revenge" has a more retaliatory and possibly selfish connotation.

A person tends to take revenge for (or to revenge) an injury done to himself. "Vengeance" has a somewhat more positive connotation, involving justice, and is more likely to be taken on behalf of another.

Then one can "avenge" either the victim of a wrong or the wrong itself.

As for The Architect you cannot take "Vengeance" towards him for starting the 5th blight since the warden commander cannot know that he is responsible unless you spare him and in that case you cannot kill him anymore.

So i will say that he is attacked by the Warden more because he can be seen as a threat,the Mother however as you said wish revenge for the experiment that he did to her and on her body,she was once a woman.

As for my Warden his only grudge was against Morrigan since she used him for the grimoire and then instead to maintain her words

what were those :

"With this grimoire i will not only protect from FLemeth in the future ,but i will be also more useful to you,useful in the sense that i will aid you better against the blight"  which are the words that i used to include her action as a betrayal,exactly what the writers inserted in the dialogue of WH especially for those who never performed any DR and and searched the grimoire only for empower her as was the agreement to combat the blight.

This is why she convinced me to take that book against FLemeth which was not an enemy of mine,and yet she didn't maintained her word because she abandoned the Commander after having lied for an entire year,this isn't exactly what i would call aid against the blight

Attacked in WH but survived due to plot armor,she didn't even had the keys of the eluvians (like Solas,Briala and Ishmael did) to deactivate it and my Warden was ther looking the mirror like a moron and then stepped back?

With others protagonists such as Hawke   there was this feeling of revenge as well vs Anders especially since he also try to use Hawke to complete his plan a complete betrayal.

Vs Solas honestly i still don't have this feeling despite the fact that what he did was bad and a great mistake,he didn't abandoned or harmed the Inquisitor, his anchor did it but the Inq got the anchor by accident and i believe that he wasn't powerful enough to remove it from the Inquisitor.

Still he is a potential threat,depend on what he will do.

 

 

 

This ,i if they will finish and close all plots from previous games moving onto something new they may make me intrested in series again.

 

I don't mind Solas  returning he is a relatively fresh character .

 

[sonoko]

I don't see Solas vs Mythal in the future. Most likely they are on the same side and are working towards the same goal.

 

When Flemythal tells "She was betrayed as I was betrayed, as the world was betrayed" Solas hasn't betrayed her yet. In fact he created the Veil as mush to avenge Mythal as to free the People from the Evanuris. Creating the Veil can be called a mistake but not a betrayal. (Though if Evanuris were indeed close to destroying the world - probably by going to war with Titans or by doing smth equally stupid - he probably didn't have a choice.) So at that moment Flemythal doesn't have any reason to consider herself or the world to be betrayed by Solas.

 

Also what happened at the end of the base game seems more like Flemythal sacrificing herself to Solas rather than being betrayed, surprise-attacked or anything like this. She is still very powerful, likely much more powerful than Solas at that point, and she could have very well protected herself if she wanted to. She knew what comes and had time to prepare: we see her sending smth through the mirror - probably a piece of her soul (the thing looks like the OGB soul, but can't be the OGB soul, due to players choices, so the most logical conclusion would be that it's another soul - the soul of Mythal). My guess is that it is intended for Morrigan who will accept her destiny and become the next Mythal vessel (after all, she was raised as one), and that we won't see Flemeth anymore.

 

Solas and Mythal goals are the same to a certain point: Mythal wants revenge on the Evanuris, but for that she needs the Veil to be removed and the Evanuris to be freed. Solas wants to destroy the Veil and, judging from some of his dialogs, I got the impression that he is ready to sacrifice himself in order not to let the Evanuris enslave the elves again. So the conflict will be Solas+Mythal vs the remaining Evanuris, not Solas vs Mythal.

 

But what will happen after the Evanuris are defeated? If Solas and Mythal both survive - that's when I can see a disagreement between them. Solas wants the world without the Veil. But what if Mythal prefers to put the Veil back?

[ComedicSociopathy]

Mythal's job was beating down other elven gods that decided to be stupid, so yeah. 

[Miltialdes]

When we see the level of power of Solas, I don't know how a normal charachter can defeat a being like him? Plus his new army of Elven! 

 

Without Mithal/Flemmeth, It should have an assemblage like The Warden and the army of warden, The Architect and the new intelligent darkspawn, Arichock Sten and his army, Morigan, Leilanna an her net of spy, Hawke, the legion of dead, the inquisitor and his army, Oghren with a army of dwarf, dragons, etc .....

Only an assemblage of the powerfull characters in Teldas is able to fight the monster of power like Solas is and his army.

 

Mithal was the goddess of justice and Justice is neutral by essence. I have always pictured her as the grey sorceress of Lodoss. Immortal powerfull but helpless to avoid the fall of the old world when the balance between the good and the evil destroyed the old world. To avoid the same destined for Lodoss, she acted to maintain the balance between the good and the evil. If the evil is too powerfull, she acted against the evil, if the good is too powerfull she plotted to decrease the power of the good. Mithal is like that.

 

Without an army never see in Thedas and a computer game, I believe in DA4 we have to find the soul piece of Mithal to have a protagonist in the level of power of Solas. 

[Aulis Vaara]

This ,i if they will finish and close all plots from previous games moving onto something new they may make me intrested in series again.

Not to be a dick, but if you want to play a different game, why don't you go play a different game. It seems insane to want someone to change their entire story because you don't want to go elsewhere... Seriously, they should finish telling the story they are telling with this series, rather than throwing everything overboard because you, personally, are bored with it.

No-one is making you play these games. "Do something completely different" is not a reasonable request.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Not to be a dick, but if you want to play a different game, why don't you go play a different game. It seems insane to want someone to change their entire story because you don't want to go elsewhere... Seriously, they should finish telling the story they are telling with this series, rather than throwing everything overboard because you, personally, are bored with it.

No-one is making you play these games. "Do something completely different" is not a reasonable request.

They aren't finishing story, they keep going with plot started in very first game (pretty much what AC does), same for characters that appeared in very first game and they keep bringing many of them them up in every game.

 

I see you are one of those people who say "if you don't like it don't comment" , didn't i said that i lost interest in series but im fully allowed to criticize devs laziness and terrible writing.

[sonoko]

My prediction for the next game is that in the first part of it our new protagonist will be hunting Solas to prevent the destruction of the Veil. From Sandal's prophecy we already know that "One day the magic will come back - all of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see." It means that Solas will eventually succeed. But allowing the heroes to defeat the villain only for him to execute his plan anyway - it's a good idea for a movie like "Watchers", but not for a video game like DA. That's why I don't think Solas will be the ultimate Big Bad of the DA4. 

 

Solas is built up as the new antagonist but I think it will be similar to the mage-templar war in DAI: after DA2 this war was thought to be the main plot for DA3, but instead it was reduced to a background conflict which was quickly resolved, though it still had a massive impact on Thedas. 

 

My guess is that the Veil will be destroyed in the middle or in the first act of the DA4, and then for the rest of the game we'll have to deal with the very-very angry Evanuris (thanks, Solas!) - most likely with the assistance and guidance of Mythal. May be Solas will sacrifice himself to give the necessary power to the protagonist, like Flemythal sacrifices herself in DAI, or may be he'll be killed by the protagonist who then takes his power himself - depending on the choices in "Trespasser".

 

It's very likely that the destruction of the Veil will happen in Kirkwall: after all, it is where the magisters breached it before and it is where the Veil is the most fragile. Plus - we'll get to see Varrick ruling the city as a viscount.

[Wahed89]

I still don't understand what Mythals plan is though. Like, your enemies are already locked up in a torment that is, according to Solas, worse than death (iirc). What does she want to do? Find them and kills them and release them? Enslave them? It just doesn't make sense, you already have your vengeance.

And how was the world betrayed? I mean, we know now that ultimately Solas is to blame for what happened to Arlathan. Is it possible that Solas knew of how to create the veil on the instructions of a third party, working for the Titans/forgotten ones/forbidden ones/old gods etc? Is that who betrayed the world by tricking Solas and creating the veil?

I just really don't understand how her motivations for vengeance can be linked to the imprisoned Evanuris.

[Statare]

@Wahed89

 

When a character is vague with their motivations and plans it is usually because the writers do not wish to reveal them, yet. From this we can infer that either Mythal is doing her own thing, or is in agreement with Solas. When Solas eats Mythal's soul or whatever, he does so knowing he should be punished but that the People need him, meaning that Mythal can not do what Solas felt the People need, meaning that either Mythal is sundered and can not do it (seems unlikely, if he needed her soul to do what he wants) or that Mythal is unwilling to do it. As of now we know Solas' plan is to breakdown the Veil and deal with the Evanuris. So, if we assume two things, that Mythal is unwilling to do what Solas wants (seems possible, she's been alive a long time and has not really moved to bring down the Veil) and that when she says "the world was betrayed, as she (Mythal) was betrayed," that she means the world was sundered as she was sundered, then we can assume Mythal is peeved at Solas, at least a bit.

 

We are assuming a lot when we think that Death for the Evanuris means what it does to mortals. Mythal being killed could be like nothing we have yet seen, and for all we know the Veil being constructed did as much as anything to keep her from returning to full power, and in fact may have made her death-rebirth that much harder.

 

We are also assuming we know exactly went down with the Evanuris to kill Mythal, or what they were conspiring to do that would "destroy" the world (Solas destroyed a world once and plans to do so again, so forgive me if I don't quite jump on board when he is so vague about it but so specific about everything else). When Solas is so specific about everything else in his Trespasser speech except about what the Evanuris were up to, and when Mythal's speech seems less angry at being killed and more angry in the betrayal of the world, I'd wonder if things are not being omitted on purpose to influence how we judge Solas.

[mgagne]

...

 

 

 

Solas and Mythal are/were good friends (maybe more?) and both don't like the Evanuris, their goals look similar, but I think Mythal might be using Solas. His goal is to lower his veil and to restore the ancient elvhen world, I don't think he wants to kill the Evanuris ... Mythal on the the other hand though is angry and wants Revenge, another argument for Mythal trying everything not to be absorbed by Solas.

 

 

 

I think Mythal already told us she has plans for Solas with that "She was betrayed as I was betrayed, as the world was betrayed" line. Flemeth was betrayed by men. Mythal by the Evanuris. The world by Solas. Her reckoning is meant for them all.

 

 

I wrote a long post about it all but pressed the back button by accident and lost it... 

 

I think Mythal is behind it all.  I think she saw more clearly than anyone else and manipulated everyone to achieve the one goal that would ensure a future for their world.

 

By allowing her associates to kill her she insured that Fen'Harel, her long time friend/lover would use all his skills as the greatest Dream Walker in Elvhenan to strike back at them, in the one way he was most proficient at (something they might even have discussed together beforehand), thus granting her the time to find a way to get rid of them permanently.  To which they responded by seducing the Tevinter magisters and unleashing the Blight.

 

She then found Flemmeth and with her/through her, worked over the centuries at creating a vessel powerful enough to hold the power necessary to vanquish her enemies and cure the Blight.  The boy Kieran - or Morrigan-of-the-Well are the solution. 

 

We have all been pawns of Mythal during the course of the games.

[Aren]

They aren't finishing story, they keep going with plot started in very first game (pretty much what AC does), same for characters that appeared in very first game and they keep bringing many of them them up in every game.

 

I see you are one of those people who say "if you don't like it don't comment" , didn't i said that i lost interest in series but im fully allowed to criticize devs laziness and terrible writing.

I would like only to add that the Mythal temple quest isn't satisfying for those who reject the ritual and as a consequences killed the Archdemon essence,because,honestly why FLemeth want to meet us in this scenario?

Just to encounter the one who drink from the well? She has an eternity to do that,she has nothing to gain in this scenario,so why she came?

The quest just seems to be completely irrelevant for those who killed the archdemon essence,is there to satisfy those who followed another pah which was not the default world state.

They did not even bothered to build another interesting quest to give an alternative scenario of a non existent old god soul,this jus show that in order to resolve old non mandatory plots they deprived some players of new fresh things to do,by forcing them to have around Flemeth and Morrigan again,two persons tha have nothing valuable to add in absence of the archdemon soul,simply because the critical situation was already resolved by the warden

[Kakistos_]

I greatly doubt that Flemeth/Mythal are out of the picture. One thing Flemeth said to the Dalish Inquisitor when they ask her to help the Elves really stands out to me: "You know not what you ask." This leads me to believe that Flemeth is aware of Fen'harel's plans but does not support them and while it is her goal to preserve old Magics and possibly help the Elves, she is not willing to destroy the world in order to do it. I'm looking forward to her showing up randomly again to assists the Inquisitor or new protagonist in defeating Fen'harel.

[Qun00]

Actually, I think Mythal is truly out of the picture, but at the same time she will have set up a number of plans for the future. However, given the Solas was once her lover and that she wants revenge against Elgar'nan for murdering her, she won't have anything ready to help against the Dread Wolf. Morrigan will help though.

Whoa, easy with the headcanon there.

Nothing has been mentioned about them having a romantic relationship or Elgar'nan being the mastermind of her assassination.

[QueenCrow]

So yeah, that's my expectation for the future of the series. Thoughts?

 Everything you've said is reasonable.  Furthermore, I can't forget that whoever drinks from the Well of Sorrows seemingly acts of their own free will until Mythal asserts herself and takes control.  And we shouldn't forget that whoever drank from the Well is bound to Mythal in seemingly the same way that Corypheus' dragon was bound to him - in a way that insures some measure of immortality - except that Corypheus bound the dragon to him by placing a part of himself into the dragon.

 

On top of considering the possibility of Solas vs. Mythal or Solas vs. Mythal's Well vessel, I think Mythal taking control of Solas at some point, because a piece of her is in him, is also possibility.

[Aulis Vaara]

They aren't finishing story, they keep going with plot started in very first game (pretty much what AC does), same for characters that appeared in very first game and they keep bringing many of them them up in every game.

Do you even know how stories work? They are not like acid trips.

[Aulis Vaara]

Whoa, easy with the headcanon there.

Nothing has been mentioned about them having a romantic relationship or Elgar'nan being the mastermind of her assassination.

"she was betrayed as I was betrayed" and we know that spirits (which Mythal now essentially is) are attracted to very specific ideas. It wouldn't make sense for her to be attracted to Flemeth if she hadn't been betrayed in the same way.

[Anaeme]

Solas did not absorb Mythal. I repeat, Solas did not absorb Mythal...

 

In fact Solas cleary states at the end of Tresspasser that:

 

 

This is all I have ever been

 

 

The only thing Solas needed from Mythal was power. In fact, if his Orb was not destroyed he would not even bother with Mythal.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Do you even know how stories work? They are not like acid trips.

Yes i know , and jumping around same plot through 10 games and spamming with old characters to the point it is outright ridiculous isn't how good and consistent stories work.