35 réponses à ce sujet

[DAFerelden91]

I understand this additional content is somewhat meant to be challenging, but seriously the damage the enemies do in the game is inconceivable. A warrior (Blackwall, to be more specific) with full health (1300 HP), Barrier and Guard got decimated instantly once from the Hakkonite Champions's Swinging Hammer, and once by the archers. Not to mention the farcical 100 DPS Poison Spiders can inflict, and they are practically everywhere! What blasphemy is this?!! Is this supposed to be normal? My party is currently at Level 25, and possesses Tier 4 gears from The Descent DLC. 

[zeypher]

1: most of descent gear is terrible

2: hakkonites apply a debuff which stacks

3: means you have to take out the archers/mages quickly. So either charging bull rush them or control them and make sure your characters have ranged defense..

4: DLC is meant for lvl 20+ players

5: the base game was too damn easy

 

Also weill help if we know more about your party setup. Is blackwall SnS? who else do you have with you? Do you have any trials on? etc DO you have berserk masterwork?

[DAFerelden91]

Why do you mean by SnS? By tier 4 gear, I meant tier 4 armour. Blackwall, for instance, is equipped with a custom Revered Defender Armour, with 280 armour rating. (+health, + Magic and ranged defence, Walking Fortress on hit), a custom Revered Defender Bulwark (+health, magic defence, 5 Guard on hit), and a custom Mortalitasi Firm Club (+Strength, constitution, attack, heal 25% of damage taken). Build wise, I've fully upgraded his Champion path(except the Taunt to Death ability), gained most defensive passives from Weapon and Shield, and Vanguard trees (I now have got +50% Max Guard). For accessories, I gave him a Superb Health Belt, Consitution amulet, Enhanced Walking Fortress and Ring of Attack.

Still, the conundrum remains. The outrageous poison DPS spiders do! 100 damage per second would kill any non Warrior characters in heartbeats.

[Fullmetall21]

How come the Decent gear is terrible? From my understanding the weapons at least have higher base stats than pretty much anything else right? Would I be better off using Hakkon's weapons? 

[zeypher]

Descent revered defender t4 no sigil slot has only 280 armor while t3 superior battlemaster has 309 and more stats.

[DAFerelden91]

Descent revered defender t4 no sigil slot has only 280 armor while t3 superior battlemaster has 309 and more stats.

You mean I should swap the Revered Defender with a Battlemaster?

[Forsythia77]

Dear OP:  You are not crazy.  JoH is stupid hard like that - even on normal.  I was sufficiently challenged in the base game on nightmare but in JoH the Hakkonites are ridic.  I had to dial my NM char back to hard, but did not have to do that on the Descent or Trespasser.  Their rogues are the worst.  The. Literal. Worst.  Maxing out your gear aside, you can get hit by a Hakkonite spy and killed in one shot with full guard and a barrier on, regardless of class. 

 

So you are not going crazy.  My strategy was to tac cam ahead and try to hit the spies/archers/mages with an AoE spell that caused panic or lob in a couple of jars of bees, again, to induce panic and get them off their A game.  I'd also try to hit the entire group with Static Cage.  So I'd try to topload with two spells and a jar of bees and then have Cass go in there and do her thing Tanking on them.  Didn't always work though.  Both my mage Caitlyn and my DW rogue Rafe died.  A lot.

[Bigdawg13]

Descent gear is not crap.  It's just a trade off.

 

See this:

 

http://dragoninquisi...or-accessories/

 

The Revered Defender Armor comes out slightly ahead of the Refined Battlemaster Mail, with a few more points of defensive % stats and health, but slightly less armor (280 vs. 309). The Superior Battlemaster Mail or Coat are slightly behind the refined, losing only 2 crafting materials (total of 16 versus 14). If you’re crafting the Refined or Superior armors, be sure to use the Superior Battlemaster Coat Arms and the Superior Battlemaster Coat/Mail Legs upgrades.

 

*EDIT*

 

This has been shown to be false by Zepher.  Note that the quote implies you can put upgrades in the Revered Defender Armor (which you cannot).  The differences comes down to about 30 armor and 4 crafting material slots (utility or defense).

 

[zeypher]

revered defender has no upgrades. what you posted is wrong.

[FredLC]

JoH is harder, but absolutely beatable even on nightmare. I in fact did beat it, in my first attempt on the DLC, on nightmare, and the one thing that bugs me is exactly that I didn't get all trophies, apparently, because I beaten one of the bosses too fast and it didn't have time to spawn shards that counted towards the achievement. A bugger, as my decision to play on nightmare was solely to get all trophies.

My only custom gear was creating an armor with high cold defense for my tank, but in truth it helped little, and the most important thing was a change in tactics.

Anyways, if you are having trouble, make sure to upgrade the aegis of the rift to protect yourself from projectiles. Open your attack with an area of effect to expose the invisible spies and send the tank in for a collective taunt - can't have spies one hitting your squish characters - than keep the tank alive with barriers, livid and specially walking fortress.

Than - and here is what won me the fights - throw in a confusion grenade to stablish a allied majority, preferably the bruiser; than, using a necromancer for the spirit mark, and focusing all your mages/rogues on one target (recommend a spy), destroy it and recruit it to your side.

This routine allowed me numerical superiority in most fights, and retained the damage not only in my tank, but allowed it to withstand the blows. Remember to take a tank with sword and board setup and to RAISE THE SHIELD if the bruiser start a whirlwind, I was used to a letting my guard absorb these blows in the vanilla game but it does not work on JoH due to nuclear cold damage that destroy your resistences. So the tank requires more micromanagement.

Anyway, that is what worked for me, and I never had to lower difficulty, even not knowing (thus not preparing specifically for) these fights beforehand, and I died very little, and no bosses defeated me not even once.

I'm sure it will work for you too, if you don't prefer to find your own way.

My team was Blackwall shielded warrior as tank, Sera archer as damage dealer, Dorian and Rift Mage inquisitior as support, btw.

[Bigdawg13]

revered defender has no upgrades. what you posted is wrong.

 

Revered Defender Armor Schematic:

Armor:  19

Upgrade mats: 34

 

 

Superior Battlemaster Coat with Upgrade battlemaster arms & legs

Armor: 21 Metal

Upgrade mats: 38

 

*EDIT*  re-calculating

 

So the T3 is slightly better IF you have the battlemaster upgrade schematics.  More versatile too. 

 

I wouldn't say it's a big difference though.  On the other hand if you are wiping, I'd definitely try anything to increase survival and damage.

 

I would not say Descent Gear is terrible though.  It just rewards new players who don't want to farm/buy upgrade schematics or junk from BE.

[zeypher]

Here more proof, made 3 sets with the best materials

 

Revered defender:

280 Armor

+14 Strength

+14 constitution

20 Magic resist

20 Ranged resist

 

Superior battlemaster armor:

309 Armor

22 strength

22 constituiton

8% melee resistance

24% ranged resistance

 

Refined battlemaster mail:

309 Armor

10% magic resistance

+320 HP  (can be easily substituted for other metal defese IE Melee defence, stagge on being hit etc) (Can also change the arm/leg attachment)

+12% Melee resistance

+18% Ranged resistance

 

 

So defender has no sigil slot, has less armor and armor is pretty important as the calculations go. Overall the crafted up-gradable armors are still better. Finally tun the bolt and blade passives help a lot as they come into play before armor. So yes looking at it revered defender is not the right way to go.

[Bigdawg13]

Here more proof, made 3 sets with the best materials

 

Revered defender:

280 Armor

+14 Strength

+14 constitution

20 Magic resist

20 Ranged resist

 

Superior battlemaster armor:

309 Armor

22 strength

22 constituiton

8% melee resistance

24% ranged resistance

 

Refined battlemaster mail:

309 Armor

10% magic resistance

+320 HP  (can be easily substituted for other metal defese IE Melee defence, stagge on being hit etc)

+12% Melee resistance

+18% Ranged resistance

 

 

So defender has no sigil slot, has less armor and armor is pretty important as the calculations go. Overall the crafted up-gradable armors are still better. Finally tun the bolt and blade passives help a lot as they come into play before armor. So yes looking at it revered defender is not the right way to go.

 

So I went to the website I linked and there are comments discussing this very thing.  One of the responses was:

 

Thanks for bringing that up, I did miss out on the upgrades. Going to update the list now. However the descent stuff is still slightly better in most cases. For example when using the best possible heavy battlemaster arms/legs upgrades, here’s the comparison between revered defender armor (schematic) and refined battlemaster armor (schematic). 280 armor/28 constitution/20% magic def/18% ranged def versus 309 armor/ 22% magic def/9% ranged def/19% melee def. If you total that all up, the revered defender gives you a total of 52% defensive improvements (14% melee def from the constitution, plus 20% magic and 18% ranged) and 140 hp, versus the 50% total defense improvement of the refined battlemaster.

 

However, I am surprised no sigil slot is provided.  I was under the impression sigil slots were added to all armors. 

[zeypher]

the armos i posted, on the mail you could remove the hp and slot in even more melee defense quite easily. Revered defender at best has total of 40 defense points all added up, my mail is easily going past that hell i sacrificed melee defense for more hp.\

 

That website is ok but it is wrong about armor. THough i will admit defender looks good on bull and only him for rest it looks like we made something of sheet metal and spikes in our garage.

 

Finally to the OP make sure to control the enemy archers and mages. War horn helps a lot. I did it with a reaver and my basic strategy was bull rush war horn and start attacking which would keep procing fear effect and that way you can easily deal with them. The aegis ability also helps bu it puts you in one place as the bubble does not move with you. Even for spiders i preferred my war horn approach. Tun the bolt passive helps a lot, spider spits at you you face it and it will do a lot less damage as the passive will reduce its damage by 50% and with turn the blade its 70%.

 

Just remember hakkon DLC is a lot easier with control. Cause proper shield wall tanking will get you killed due to the debuff, so best bet is to ensure they cannot even apply it to you. Might blow, grapple chain, horror, fear, stun all help greatly. Full on tanking approach will get you killed.

[Bigdawg13]

the armos i posted, on the mail you could remove the hp and slot in even more melee defense quite easily. Revered defender at best has total of 40 defense points all added up, my mail is easily going past that hell i sacrificed melee defense for more hp.\

 

That website is ok but it is wrong about armor.

 

I think we're at the point of he-said this and the other guy said that with two people thinking they are correct.  I'm not saying you're wrong, but what I am saying is the difference is slight at best.

[zeypher]

The difference kind of matters when hakkon is considered. Problem is that dlc was on the previous console as well and since they couldn't really up enemy numbers they buffed them instead to a high degree. 

 

besides on all dlcs i noticed its less about mmo style tanking and more about control and offence now which is good.

[FredLC]

Hadn't realized the number of enemies thing; well, I just only begun the descent and did not play trespasser yet. But there is a fight with a high number of enemies early on descent, true. You are probably right.

[zeypher]

Descent, trespasser have you fighting hordes which is amazing. Deep roads means you fight hordes, same with the enemy battalion in trespasser and because of that i loved those two DLC.

 

Infact the combat becomes enjoyable when you are fighting a huge number or enemies, but its boring when you fight the standard 3-4 bunches. The last two dlcs required that i use my consumables properly and frequently. This was missing from the base game.

[FredLC]

Well, i did abuse confusion grenades on JoH, and it was the first time I opted for a grenades belt... but I see your point, against hordes battlefield control will be harder to achieve.

I remember how it have me headaches in Origins and in Da II.

[Deebo305]

JoH is definitely hard but not impossible but I agree with what was said before, Descent armor is fairly terrible, your better off with Sturdy or Superior Tier 3 armors until you find their Tier 4 Refined versions in JoH

My Advice-

Mages- Remove all Ice Spells, you NEED fire snd lighting
Spec- Dorion with Immotate, Fire Mine, Energy Barrage, Static Cage, Barrier, Dispell or Revive, Spirit Mark, Walking Bomb

This a good Set up, always lock down all Hakkonite Mages and Archers first with Static Cage then unload and don't stop untl they are dead or else and hit any if them with Spirit Mark for the much needed extra help. Dispell is good but not nesscary, the further you proceed the more Revive WILL be nesscary. Make sure you grab all his Nerco and Fire passive as well. You can Spec Vivienne this way as well minus the Nerco tree

Rogues- I'd avoid Melee Rogues until you find the rift that drops Fade Touched Silverite, once you do..FARM IT, grab every item but one then leave and come back for guaranteed Fade Touched Silverite

Warriors-
Blackwall and Cassandra with Swords and Shield equipped, grab War Horn to debuff Hakkonite champions and destroy their guard making them easy targets for your mages and Rogues

For Blackwall, avoid Line In the Sand, use Walking Fortress and To The Death to keep melee fighters aggro'd, make sure you have It'll Cost You and Cutting Words Passives on as well for maximum damage

Cassandra is good for the Rifts and Hakkon Mages because of her Templar Tree but if you want extra help grab Livid, Hakkonites tend to swarm you and Livid is great ability for reducing the damage the warriors will take

Hope this helps OP

[Bigdawg13]

I'm surprised you're advocating ignore ice spells.  Isn't ice mine ideal for control?  It's extremely cheap.  And if you use it upgraded you can get three of them out.

[zeypher]

Hakkonites and ice do not mix well. They use ice based stuff on you.

[Deebo305]

I'm surprised you're advocating ignore ice spells.  Isn't ice mine ideal for control?  It's extremely cheap.  And if you use it upgraded you can get three of them out.

In JoH, even Ice Mine is bad and Static Cage works better, the points used in the Frost tree are better spent elsewhere.

[Bigdawg13]

In JoH, even Ice Mine is bad and Static Cage works better, the points used in the Frost tree are better spent elsewhere.

Ah that makes sense. They must have innate cold resistance.

[Rynas]

I had a base 80% magic defense (Ice Armor was on) on my KE.  A few minutes in, a Hakkonite mage hit me for 3,410 damage.  That would have hit me for 17,000 with zero defense.  That stacking debuff hurts.

 

I had to change the way I approach some fights, slow things down, and try a little more crowd control, or at least make a concerted avoid major debuffing attacks.  But, it is still soloable on Nightmare with some trials turned on.