232 réponses à ce sujet

[The Hierophant]

Please no time traveling.....

 

[Darkstarr11]

You mean, trying to save the elves?  I applaud that actually.  Whatever the Ancient Elves were, elves currently don't get the short end of the stick...they get BEATEN with it, repeatedly.  Even by each other, in fact.  They fell...HARD.  Playing as a Dalish Inquisitor, especially a Solas Romanced Lavellan, you really get to see different side of the Dalish.  You can understand their frustration with Mythal, and why they feel so abandoned.  Let's be honest, the elves have NO IDEA what the old elves were like.  They lost pretty much everything, so much in fact that they don't even know WHAT they lost.  It is quite tragic.

 

Now, having SAID that...HOW he intends to restore the elves?  Um...no.  No, no, no, no, no, no FRIGGIN' WAY Solas.  Even if he was your friend, his plan to basically obliterate you isn't going to fly.  Dude, SERIOUSLY I get it.  You basically blew up your friends houses.  You DON'T fix that by dropping a NEW house on MY house.  Also, how about all those workers who are helping you WITH your plan?  Did you tell them that THEY might not be moving into the new Fade Pad?  That they might actually be UNDER it when it falls?  Did you consider that said house might not SURVIVE it when you drop the thing?

 

OH, and lets not forget the PREVIOUS tenants of said world, the Evanuris.  Who have been trapped for EVER so long and are most likely LESS than happy with Solas AND...well...EVERYTHING.  Remember Corypheus?  How unabashedly EVIL he was?  Hammy, Tainted and willing to destroy EVERYTHING like an infant with superpowers because he didn't get his way?  Compared to the Evanuris, he's D List.  Rank Amateur.  Rookie.  These beings WERE immortal mages with nothing better to do than war for fun and make lakes of blood.  They couldn't even KILL the nicest of them (and Mythal has a rep for leaving pieces of people in trees, remember) and they have been waiting, trapped, and are probably just a LITTLE cranky by now.  Solas...has a plan.  He has a plan.  Considering his LAST plan went off without a hitch...yes, the BREACH...I have more than a slight amount of trepidation about his 'plan'.  

 

Remember what Solas MEANS in Elhven?  PRIDE...and the opposite of Pride?  Wisdom.  To which I am noticing a severe lack of.  Seriously, dude?  Wear a hat.  All that sun and Fade is baking the egg, ya know?

[Heimdall]

Solas...has a plan.  He has a plan.  Considering his LAST plan went off without a hitch...yes, the BREACH...I have more than a slight amount of trepidation about his 'plan'.  

In fairness, that plan would have worked if Corypheus hadn't turned out to be unkillable, which Solas couldn't have known unless he was there when Hawke killed him.

[MrObnoxiousUK]

Well for Solas what's complicating the situation is his guilt.

 

Time didn't just move on and leave the Ancient Elves behind.  The reason they've fallen is 100% his fault, unintentionally.  He's trying to give back what he, personally, took away.  He isn't punishing people for not being "pure" or "Chosen", rather he considers their eradication an unfortunate bi-product of undoing his mistake.  In his defense, he doesn't like doing it one bit.  That's why he encourages Inquisitors he likes to prove him wrong and give him a reason to not do it.

 

I'm not trying to defend him, just encouraging a better understanding.  He isn't trying to "PURGE THE UNCLEAN".

 

Not all the elves.  I believe the text says, "Most of the Inquisition's elves and many elven servants across Thedas".  The implication seems to be that Solas has recruited them as his army somehow, though for purposes unknown.

Encourage a better understanding of mass slaughter,for do not kid yourself that is the "understanding" you wish to apologise for.All those people that would die would be a multitude compared to the handful that would be alive to see this so called brave new world.If this is not a "Chosen" club only i do not know what is.

 

Imagine this scenario, a native American Shaman from 1400 ad wakes up from a Shamanistic induced sleep  in the modern United States and is horrified at what he sees, his people greatly reduced and second class citizens in their own land, all based on the fact he encouraged dialog with these "invaders" .He resolves to create a mighty spell that will awaken the spirits of the land and will kill all non native Americans,he feels guilty for what he must do, but he feels in his heart of hearts this is the right thing to do,after all this is the land of his fathers,fathers and he can see no other choice.Now tell me this is justified.

[Mr.House]

I love dem angry elven language at a romanced Solas in Tresspasser.

[karushna5]

I think its okay to enjoy or adore a bad character. But I always feel uncomfortable when bad actions are excused or made into a better light due to the character being likeable.

 

Solas wants to kill millions, after he already destroyed his home and destroyed in mass he wants to do it again to take it back. I mean that's evil. He is just like Corypheus who came back from the world and realized Tevinter wasn't the empire it was. yes he got corrupted, but if he had not been he would be just like Solas.

I understand empathy for someone who feels guilt for destroying his home, but doing it over again? that is madness. he doesn't consider people people, and we are not Tranquil, he is being a litttle overmuch, and is going to destroy the world on the greatest hubris a character ever had.

 

Solas is very complicated and it is easy to be empathetic to him, or like him, but that doesn't make his plan any less super evil villainy? I mean imagine Corypheus felt the same way and he was breaking the veil to save whatever, is it right? Is guilt (but not really) excuse for evil? Is being likeable a free pass to commit crimes?

[Bethgael]

I mean, in all honesty, is it? I mean everyone dying aside, would it actually be a better option in the long run?

Highlighted the issue.

"Everyone dying" = "no one left to enjoy brave new world."

 

[Darkstarr11]

In fairness, that plan would have worked if Corypheus hadn't turned out to be unkillable, which Solas couldn't have known unless he was there when Hawke killed him.

 

Good point.  Still, I have concerns...

[Lunatic Lace]

In fairness, that plan would have worked if Corypheus hadn't turned out to be unkillable, which Solas couldn't have known unless he was there when Hawke killed him.

Yeah, thank the Maker for that darned Corypheus! If it hadn't been for him everybody'd be DEAD by now.

Let's all pitch in for a gift basket of moisturizing products for that swell guy. Heroes need to be recognized.

[Miss Golightly]

It's the end of Thedas as we know it, and that's not fine.

 

I can see why Solas wishes to do this, and if there were another way to revive the old elves without having to commit genocide on the entire planet, I'd consider supporting him. But killing millions/billions/the population of "Dragon Earth" just to bring back what once was? No.

[Morroian]

I mean, in all honesty, is it? I mean everyone dying aside, would it actually be a better option in the long run?

 

Yes, if he is immortal he should stop being impatient and look for another way.

[renfrees]

Originally I don't think he did. Solas in the past seems to be very quick to react and unable to see the ultimate consequences. This is why he is now trying to put things back the way they were. Yet he seems to keep messing up time and again. If it hadn't been for the fact that he was unable to unlock his orb when he awoke, he would have already dropped the veil and we'd be seeing whatever those consequences might be.

Yet this time he was moved by the inquisition and the inquisitor in general, even if you were an ass to him he respected what you accomplished. So he had time to think and ponder his actions and what he was going to do this time when Cory was defeated and when he got back the orb. Even though the orb was destroyed. He gave this plan more thought than possibly any in his life.

Aka 4 years? The main problem with Solas and his plans is not even his pride, it's impatience. He awoke only 1 year before the Conclave and instead of waiting to regain his strength to unlock the orb what did he do? Gave his orb to a magister darkspawn. Now, even though he admits that the Inquisitor changed his mind on modern people, what he intends to do instead of getting to know this world better and maybe coming up with a less drastic plan? He blunders ahead like his arse is on fire. For an immortal being who has all time in the world he's rather hasty, don't you think?

[Mr.House]

Really, it's so so much Solas himself, as more it's his guilt that is controlling him. It's understandable why he is doing this, but it does not make it right.

[Heimdall]

Encourage a better understanding of mass slaughter,for do not kid yourself that is the "understanding" you wish to apologise for.All those people that would die would be a multitude compared to the handful that would be alive to see this so called brave new world.If this is not a "Chosen" club only i do not know what is.

Imagine this scenario, a native American Shaman from 1400 ad wakes up from a Shamanistic induced sleep in the modern United States and is horrified at what he sees, his people greatly reduced and second class citizens in their own land ,he resolves to create a mighty spell that will awaken the spirits of the land and will kill all non native Americans,he feels guilty for what he must do, but he feels in his heart of hearts this is the right thing to do,after all this is the land of his fathers,father.Now tell me this is justified.

It isn't justified, neither is Solas. I never said he was. (Though for a better analogy, it would have to be the shaman's fault)

It's not clear to me who Solas expects to survive bringing down the Veil or why it would kill them. So it doesn't sit right with me to say he is out to kill everyone not of a "chosen" people, as you said in the post I quoted. You made killing people out to be the goal not the byproduct.

[Cobra's_back]

Yes, if he is immortal he should stop being impatient and look for another way.

 

Totally agree. A little less whining and more effort over several decades should do the trick. 

[MrObnoxiousUK]

It isn't justified, neither is Solas. I never said he was.

It's not clear to me who Solas expects to survive bringing down the Veil or why it would kill them. So it doesn't sit right with me to say he is out to kill everyone not of a "chosen" people, as you said in the post I quoted. You made killing people out to be the goal not the byproduct.

I said "Chosen" ones because it is a select group that is going into the metaphorical Noah's ark to sail into the sunset and a brave new world or did i miss the part where everyone will just fall sleep and wake up in the land of milk and honey?

[Dancing_Dolphin]

I feel bad for Solas, I really do, but I think he is broken. I find it hard to believe someone could be solely responsible for the complete destruction of their culture and near destruction of their people and remain mentally and emotionally intact. He is incapable of accepting defeat and will do anything to keep from losing, one would have to be suicidal or very misguided to side with that.

[Darkstarr11]

I said "Chosen" ones because it is a select group that is going into the metaphorical Noah's ark to sail into the sunset and a brave new world or did i miss the part where everyone will just fall sleep and wake up in the land of milk and honey?

 

 

I am curious if the denizens of the Fade are cool with his plan.  Sure, some would be...but there is a solid chance that all his spirit friends aren't going to react well to being thrust back into the mortal world again.  Think the Breach was bad?  Yeah, this will trump that one.  Of course, from the sounds of it during the Lavellan romance ending, he didn't seem to act like he was going to survive his little 'end of the world/new beginnings' gambit.  ESPECIALLY after basically dooming his romance partner or best friend to a horrifying death.  Even he didn't seem to think it was the best plan...just the ONLY plan that would work.  

 

"I would treasure the chance to be wrong again, my friend.'

 

I'm not sensing confidence in him at the moment.  

 

I know, he needs a puppy.  A puppy and a hat.  No cats.  Last guy we got a cat for...well...lets not follow HIS example, shall we?

[Eelectrica]

The world as it isn't exactly all that great. Wiping the slate clean could be for the best.
But then again it wasn't that great before either. Absolute power corrupts with or without the veil.

Somehow I doubt we'll get that choice as it would pretty much mean the end of the series.

[X Equestris]

I doubt there are millions. Thedas is pre-agricultural revolution. Even with magic aiding crops (we never even see evidence of this I am just giving you benefit of the doubt) there are maybe a hundred thousand people in Val Royeaux. Half that in other capitals (except for Minrathous which probably matches Val Royeaux), and vastly smaller populations in other cities, and miniscule populations in towns. Thedas probably has a population of 2 Million, 3 tops.
 
If you go back 200 years in the real world the population drops to less than a Billion (1/7th of todays). That is about 400 years of technology ahead of Thedas (apart from Qunari, whom it is only 200-300 years ahead).
 
And if you want in universe numbers DA:Stolen Throne and DA:Asunder give some numbers on army sizes and mage numbers which act as indicators to nations population sizes)

Ferelden is said to have a million people pre-Blight. Orlais is said to be at four million. By the time of Trespasser, that's almost one and a half decades gone by, so there's probably some population growth. 20 million for the whole continent seems fair. And that might just be humans, as I'm not sure if elves are included in the figures provided to us. Then you have to add in dwarves and Qunari. Furthermore, there appear to be at least humans and dwarves who live beyond Thedas. It stands to reason that they'll be affected too. So I think it's safe to say that Solas is contemplating committing a genocide worse than the Holocaust and Holodommor put together.

Armies from the real medieval era were quite small, so I see no problem there. Meanwhile, I'd expect Mages to be very small in number. Otherwise the Circles would appear to have done an awful job at containing them.

[Ashagar]

It isn't justified, neither is Solas. I never said he was. (Though for a better analogy, it would have to be the shaman's fault)

It's not clear to me who Solas expects to survive bringing down the Veil or why it would kill them. So it doesn't sit right with me to say he is out to kill everyone not of a "chosen" people, as you said in the post I quoted. You made killing people out to be the goal not the byproduct.

 

I would presume for one it would be the surviving ancient elves, other than the group at mythrial's temple I seem to recall Solas there were other places where there were still ancient elves remaining that the elves at the temple could join up with. Other than that the dwarves would likely still be kicking and likely a few humans would surivive though the Avvar gods will likely be not amused at the deaths many of their followers and likely neither will the maker who's return has been foretold.

[X Equestris]

I would presume for one it would be the surviving ancient elves, other than the group at mythrial's temple I seem to recall Solas there were other places where there were still ancient elves remaining that the elves at the temple could join up with. Other than that the dwarves would likely still be kicking and likely a few humans would surivive though the Avvar gods will likely be not amused at the deaths many of their followers and likely neither will the maker who's return has been foretold.

Isn't there some mention of strange elves like the ones from Mythal's Temple stirring in the Tirashan?

[Kaibe]

Which ironically he approves if you put her in charge.

Fricken egg.....

When was it confirmed to have been Solas in TME? Was it in Trespasser?

[Mr.House]

When was it confirmed to have been Solas in TME? Was it in Trespasser?

Felassan was his agent. He killed him because he failed to get he code and saw the modern elves as people. Confirmed by both Cole and Solas in Trespasser.

 

However in DAI if you put her in charge, he approves and speaks positive back at Skyhold.  In the end he became just like Felassan.

[The Night Haunter]

Ferelden is said to have a million people pre-Blight. Orlais is said to be at four million. By the time of Trespasser, that's almost one and a half decades gone by, so there's probably some population growth. 20 million for the whole continent seems fair. And that might just be humans, as I'm not sure if elves are included in the figures provided to us. Then you have to add in dwarves and Qunari. Furthermore, there appear to be at least humans and dwarves who live beyond Thedas. It stands to reason that they'll be affected too. So I think it's safe to say that Solas is contemplating committing a genocide worse than the Holocaust and Holodommor put together.

Armies from the real medieval era were quite small, so I see no problem there. Meanwhile, I'd expect Mages to be very small in number. Otherwise the Circles would appear to have done an awful job at containing them.

Where on earth are you getting these numbers from? I've never seen any official source say anything like that.