OK, maybe if Solas decided "Well balls, this was kind of a bad idea. Lemme just ctrl+z this beyotch!" like a few weeks later or something, then sure. But it's been literally ages. While Solas Rip Van Winkled his ass across time, civilizations have developed in this new world.
This leads to a certain question however. If Solas society fell and was destroyed, what exactly gives the one we live in right now the guarantee that it won't suffer the same fate?
I mean, in all honesty, is it? I mean everyone dying aside, would it actually be a better option in the long run?
Seriously? I imagine the "everyone dying" part would put most people off, long run or short term.
Solas certainly believes that he's doing the right thing. He's willing to stake his immortal life on it, as well as the lives of every sentient creature in Thedas.
As Leliana said when you became Inquisitor, "He's willing to tear the world apart. It won't matter if he's wrong." (Or was that Cullen? I can't remember.)
But after all that, the Inquisitor has been able to change his mind in the past. Maybe that luck will continue.
I was rereading this codex in the game and I believe it's a clue as to what will really happen once the veil comes down. The Fade could possibly be similar to the Buddhist concept of Nirvana.
I think what this codex basically says is that there is no real difference between the Fade and the real world. The veil is really only a delusion of perception, that of these two states of consciousness (the fade and the real world) are separate from one another.
So, perhaps the destruction of the veil is really only the destruction of delusion, allowing the inhabitants of Thedas to become enlightened beings.
This would, of course, mean an end to old ways of life and the symbolic "end" of the world as the Inquisitor currently knows it.
Just a thought:
I detest this notion that the Veil is some manner of invisible "curtain" that separates the world of the living from the world of the spirits (whether it be called the Fade or the Beyond is a matter of racial politics I refuse to indulge in at the moment). There is no "this side" and "that side" when it comes to the Veil. One cannot think of it as a physical thing or a barrier or even a "shimmering wall of holy light" (thank you very much for that image, Your Perfection).
Think of the Veil, instead, as opening one's eyes.
Before you opened them, you saw our world as you see it now: static, solid, unchanging. Now that they are open, you see our world as the spirits see it: chaotic, ever-changing, a realm where the imagined and the remembered have as much substance as that which is real—more, in fact. A spirit sees everything as defined by will and memory, and this is why they are so very lost when they cross the Veil. In our world, imagination has no substance. Objects exist independently of how we remember them or what emotions we associate with them. Mages alone possess the power to change the world with their minds, and perhaps this forms the nature of a demon's attraction to them—who can say?
Regardless, the act of passing through the Veil is much more about changing one's perceptions than a physical transition. The Veil is an idea, it is the act of transition itself, and it is only the fact that both living beings and spirits find the transition difficult that gives the Veil any credence as a physical barrier at all.
—From A Dissertation on the Fade as a Physical Manifestation, by Mareno, Senior Enchanter of the MinrathousCircle of Magi, 6:55 Steel
I'd agree with you if Solas didn't tell you a lot of people would die.
Seriously? I imagine the "everyone dying" part would put most people off, long run or short term.
Solas certainly believes that he's doing the right thing. He's willing to stake his immortal life on it, as well as the lives of every sentient creature in Thedas.
As Leliana said when you became Inquisitor, "He's willing to tear the world apart. It won't matter if he's wrong." (Or was that Cullen? I can't remember.)
But after all that, the Inquisitor has been able to change his mind in the past. Maybe that luck will continue.
"The sanity of the plan is of no consequence."
"And why is that?"
"Because he can do it!"
. Every choice is supported by a feeling of necessity or reason for it's opposite. Solas has that same feeling of necessity, which is why he must be smacked upside his head to see reason. Plus he is bald = good for getting smacked upside his head.
Ah, to be honest, even though there's no such option in my story the inquisitor retired because she wanted to join Solas. As early as Promise of Destruction I've already started considering if this world's worth saving at all - Just like Lord Seeker Lucius said, the world's so irreparably rotten and damaged that the logical option would be to take any opportunity to flip the table and start everything over. The reason why Corypheus still has to be stopped is because we've seen how rotten his vision for the world is in the time travel sequence, but as of trespasser, my opinion is that the status quo in Thedas is not worth preserving at all. Decadent Orlais, backward Ferelden, a disunited Free Marches, corrupt Tevinter, and the Qun who's neither strong enough to realise its vision, nor weak enough to be defeated, but nonetheless will never relent. Couple that with mages, templars, politics and sheer human stupidity - What the inquisition stood for is just holding a diminished, broken, mundane world. Morrigan, Solas and even Corypheus reminds us of how much better the world was before, and how much has been lost. And it's no misguided nostalgia either - the world really was greater, more magical and much more advanced. Bringing these back can offer the world a chance to start over.
Plus my inquisitor's Dalish. In my backstory she's already thoroughly sick of the human societies and their status quo by the time of Trespasser, and she's never forgotten her Dalish heritage. Her time with the inquisition is over - time to do her part for the People, now that she's learned so much.
Ah, to be honest, even though there's no such option in my story the inquisitor retired because she wanted to join Solas. As early as Promise of Destruction I've already started considering if this world's worth saving at all - Just like Lord Seeker Lucius said, the world's so irreparably rotten and damaged that the logical option would be to take any opportunity to flip the table and start everything over. The reason why Corypheus still has to be stopped is because we've seen how rotten his vision for the world is in the time travel sequence, but as of trespasser, my opinion is that the status quo in Thedas is not worth preserving at all. Decadent Orlais, backward Ferelden, a disunited Free Marches, corrupt Tevinter, and the Qun who's neither strong enough to realise its vision, nor weak enough to be defeated, but nonetheless will never relent. Couple that with mages, templars, politics and sheer human stupidity - What the inquisition stood for is just holding a diminished, broken, mundane world. Morrigan, Solas and even Corypheus reminds us of how much better the world was before, and how much has been lost. And it's no misguided nostalgia either - the world really was greater, more magical and much more advanced. Bringing these back can offer the world a chance to start over.
Plus my inquisitor's Dalish. In my backstory she's already thoroughly sick of the human societies and their status quo by the time of Trespasser, and she's never forgotten her Dalish heritage. Her time with the inquisition is over - time to do her part for the People, now that she's learned so much.
Solas' world may have been more magical, but it suffered from all of the same problems the current one does.
I mean, in all honesty, is it? I mean everyone dying aside, would it actually be a better option in the long run?
Let me understand. Are you suggesting that the annihilation of the human race by an extremely powerful, megalomaniac sociopath would, actually, be a better option in the long run?
What is this thread? The suicidal thoughts people's corner? The nazi sympathizers little fanclub?
Ah, to be honest, even though there's no such option in my story the inquisitor retired because she wanted to join Solas. As early as Promise of Destruction I've already started considering if this world's worth saving at all - Just like Lord Seeker Lucius said, the world's so irreparably rotten and damaged that the logical option would be to take any opportunity to flip the table and start everything over. The reason why Corypheus still has to be stopped is because we've seen how rotten his vision for the world is in the time travel sequence, but as of trespasser, my opinion is that the status quo in Thedas is not worth preserving at all. Decadent Orlais, backward Ferelden, a disunited Free Marches, corrupt Tevinter, and the Qun who's neither strong enough to realise its vision, nor weak enough to be defeated, but nonetheless will never relent. Couple that with mages, templars, politics and sheer human stupidity - What the inquisition stood for is just holding a diminished, broken, mundane world. Morrigan, Solas and even Corypheus reminds us of how much better the world was before, and how much has been lost. And it's no misguided nostalgia either - the world really was greater, more magical and much more advanced. Bringing these back can offer the world a chance to start over.
Plus my inquisitor's Dalish. In my backstory she's already thoroughly sick of the human societies and their status quo by the time of Trespasser, and she's never forgotten her Dalish heritage. Her time with the inquisition is over - time to do her part for the People, now that she's learned so much.
After reading your post, I just had to look at your avatar's name. No comments.
The snark is strong here. 
Anyway, the survivors may find themselves in a very magical, very high fantasy setting... which will just devolve to people seeking power, wars, greed, oppression, etc.
Solas is seeking to change the world, not people. So, the only difference is more mages with access to more power.
A world of super heroes sounds great, and a world filled with people that can do healing magic and magic that can help ease lives and expand one's knowledge and understanding of reality, that all sounds great and a possibility with Solas' plan.
However, he is leaving people as they are, and if the world burns, the horror of it will scar the survivors (Solas included if he lives), that it won't be a world of super heroes, it will be a world of super victims, where some would rise to the challenge of a new world, either selfishly or selflessly, and others would reject the change and be at the mercy of those who rise.
I'd agree with you if Solas didn't tell you a lot of people would die.
Don't worry. When Solas proceeds with his plan, out of blue, with no explanation behind it, it turns out he was wrong (again) and no one will die. Except for those who were killed by the Protagonist&co who wanted to stop him, instead of redeeming him. After that, the Evanuris will return and they will realise, how wrong they were and become his most loyal servants. And everyone will get superpowers and will live happily ever after.
The snark is strong here.
Anyway, the survivors may find themselves in a very magical, very high fantasy setting... which will just devolve to people seeking power, wars, greed, oppression, etc.
Solas is seeking to change the world, not people. So, the only difference is more mages with access to more power.
A world of super heroes sounds great, and a world filled with people that can do healing magic and magic that can help ease lives and expand one's knowledge and understanding of reality, that all sounds great and a possibility with Solas' plan.
However, he is leaving people as they are, and if the world burns, the horror of it will scar the survivors (Solas included if he lives), that it won't be a world of super heroes, it will be a world of super victims, where some would rise to the challenge of a new world, either selfishly or selflessly, and others would reject the change and be at the mercy of those who rise.
Slave state once again. That is what it was before and will happen again.
Not necessarily bad because he wants to bring back what was lost to him, but it's pure selfishness. His mind is clouded with the only thought of achieving his goal. He needs a nice bonk on the head to bring him back to reality. The past is the past, let it go.
Dunno if Solas is going to tear down the veil in order to take revenge for the murder of Mythal or as a restoration of the elves. But the effects will either be very bad or will be kinda good in the long term?
The ideal situation that I was hoping for before playing Trespasser would be that Solas was trying (or could be persuaded to) help give the elves a new homeland.
Giving the elves immortality and unlimited magic use would be a fatal error. In effect this would repeat the mistakes of the ancient elves. With powerfull elves going from elders to lords to kings to gods. It seems that the only way to prevent the world from relapsing back in the structures of ancient Elvhenan, would either to be to have Solas ruling over all (thereby stopping the rise of anymore god-kings, but ending up with Solas as the one and only, i.e. a slightly nicer Corypheus), or having the removal of the veil give everybody equal super magic powers (which wouldn't stop the rise of god-kings in the long term, but it would make their rise much more difficult).
In any event the world will be devastated by the removal of the veil. Dunno if the veil being removed will only give elves magic and immortality or everybody in Thedas in general. If that is the case you could just replace the word "elves" with "people" and the result would be the same.
In any event Solas is essentially Corypehus. Ancient mage wakes up, sees the world gone awry, will devastate/destroy the world in an attempt to restore the old one. Talking with Solas in Trespasser I got the feeling that he was driven more by guilt than anything else. Because of him what has left of Elvhenan fell to Tevinter, followed by millennias of suffering after all. Seems like he is driven by deep seated guilt over the fact he failed to save the elves he wanted to help more than anything.
Im suggesting being empathetic. It's a videogame.Let me understand. Are you suggesting that the annihilation of the human race by an extremely powerful, megalomaniac sociopath it would actually be a better option in the long run?
What is this thread? The suicidal thoughts people's corner? The nazi sympathizer's little fanclub?
Yes it is pretty terrible, Solas wants to murder millions because he can't accept that things changed due to his actions. It's like the dialogue between Hawke and Varric, "That's what happens when you try to change things, things change. You don't always control how."
Dunno if Solas is going to tear down the veil in order to take revenge for the murder of Mythal or as a restoration of the elves. But the effects will either be very bad or will be kinda good in the long term?
The ideal situation that I was hoping for before playing Trespasser would be that Solas was trying (or could be persuaded to) help give the elves a new homeland.
Giving the elves immortality and unlimited magic use would be a fatal error. In effect this would repeat the mistakes of the ancient elves. With powerfull elves going from elders to lords to kings to gods. It seems that the only way to prevent the world from relapsing back in the structures of ancient Elvhenan, would either to be to have Solas ruling over all (thereby stopping the rise of anymore god-kings, but ending up with Solas as the one and only, i.e. a slightly nicer Corypheus), or having the removal of the veil give everybody equal super magic powers (which wouldn't stop the rise of god-kings in the long term, but it would make their rise much more difficult).
In any event the world will be devastated by the removal of the veil. Dunno if the veil being removed will only give elves magic and immortality or everybody in Thedas in general. If that is the case you could just replace the word "elves" with "people" and the result would be the same.
In any event Solas is essentially Corypehus. Ancient mage wakes up, sees the world gone awry, will devastate/destroy the world in an attempt to restore the old one. Talking with Solas in Trespasser I got the feeling that he was driven more by guilt than anything else. Because of him what has left of Elvhenan fell to Tevinter, followed by millennias of suffering after all. Seems like he is driven by deep seated guilt over the fact he failed to save the elves he wanted to help more than anything.
Solas laments what the elves lost - their magic, their immortality... al those things that made them elves beyond the fact their ears were a little pointy. He wanted to save his people, but what he did was destroy everything that made them elves. We can talk about Solas committing genocide, but from his own POV he's already committed one genocide. That's why he's so very desperate, at first, to see all modern races as "not real" (or as he put it, tranquil) - it makes it OK to clean house to repair his previous genocide, rather than framing it as one genocide to fix another.
With high friendship, Solas gives another rationalization - he'll allow everyone to live in peace and security, before (essentially) smothering them in ther beds. They are still people and don't deserve to suffer... but not people enough to balance out his sin.
I think people really underestimate the degree to which Solas is just plain broken from what he previously did with the Veil.
Solas laments what the elves lost - their magic, their immortality... al those things that made them elves beyond the fact their ears were a little pointy. He wanted to save his people, but what he did was destroy everything that made them elves. We can talk about Solas committing genocide, but from his own POV he's already committed one genocide. That's why he's so very desperate, at first, to see all modern races as "not real" (or as he put it, tranquil) - it makes it OK to clean house to repair his previous genocide, rather than framing it as one genocide to fix another.
With high friendship, Solas gives another rationalization - he'll allow everyone to live in peace and security, before (essentially) smothering them in ther beds. They are still people and don't deserve to suffer... but not people enough to balance out his sin.
I think people really underestimate the degree to which Solas is just plain broken from what he previously did with the Veil.
Is it weird that this makes it seem worse, to me? It's like they won't even have a chance to fight back, or even know that death is on their doorstep until it's too late.
No. He's nuts - what he's proposing is Germany circa 1939 level evil.
No. He's nuts - what he's proposing is Germany circa 1939 level evil.
Only if the people Germany proposed exterminating [out of genuine necessity for securing the future of the human race] had the lifespan of hamsters, the mental acuity of four year olds, were incapable of fully utilising their senses of touch, taste, smell, sight and hearing whilst breeding like jackrabbits on Viagra. Which is pretty much what the vast majority of people in modern Thedas would seem like to a thousand+ year old immortal.
You might sympathize with them, you might even care for some of them. But honestly in the end only the most exceptional would come across as anything resembling 'people' to you and even then all you have to do is blink your eyes and they're gone.
If humanity was faced with similar choice between restoring our race to what it is now or dooming it to an eternity of being put on the same levels as the above mentioned hamster-people, you can sure has hell bet the genocide would be on in heartbeat. Even if that meant a good portion of hamster-humanity would die in process along with most of the hamster-people. And we'd likely do it with out a second thought. In the end only sparing a few, if any, tears for the necessary 'evil' of it all after we were once again secure in our 'proper' human fullness.
Of course, the hamster-people would think the ridiculous notion of decades' long life spans for humans and the ability to see the colour blue really doesn't mean all that much in the face of possible genocide for them. And how dare those old humans try to mess up the world they inherited fair and square, why can't they just lay down and die like their more hamsterish brethren!?
One of my Inky's, a shem hating elf, would side with him if it meant their race would be at the top of the food chain again.
One of my Inky's, a shem hating elf, would side with him if it meant their race would be at the top of the food chain again.
But here is the thing. I do not think that the 'Inky's race' is gonna be at the top of the food chain. THe Dalish are likely to suffer greatly thanks to Solas's plan. I mean maybe there will be a few survivors just for them of course.
So... is what Solas wants to do really that bad?
The thing is we don't know how the ancient elves came to be in the first place. It has been suggested that Cole says Solas was once a spirit who became material like him. I've not heard it myself but if it were true then that would probably apply to the other elves as well. So it could be that Solas thinks if he wipes the slate clean and starts again, his brave new world will be populated by spirits become more material again, plus possible the ancient elves who survived to this time, who he will instruct to go into uthenera until the transition is over. It has struck me that Solas had to have some way of avoiding the effects of his own handiwork; otherwise he would have been stripped of his magic too. Abelas and his friends also managed to survive to modern times through using uthenera too. The lore in Masked Empire says that those in uthenera would draw sustenance from the Fade and it would seem they can still do this even with the Veil in place. This is why I assume that Solas cannot delay indefinitely going through with his plan because he is now mortal and will start aging, so he either needs to tear down the Veil or go back into uthenera.
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