77 réponses à ce sujet

[Arde5643]

@VirtualAlex:

Nope, against un-armored husks, you're better off using area pull, throw field, deep cyro blast, and any other lower recharge abilities.



Shockwave is an alternate skill and the only non-bonus skill the vanguard has at dealing damage and stun at long range. If your vanguard does not use the AR, then it's a useless ability.



Read through my posts again on how to use shockwave - however, again it's an alternate ability and not something that can be spammed without impunity like the overpowered reave.



Due to my dislike of reave's OPness, I use shockwave to good use with my AR vanguard to soften enemies from a distance and in battles of attrition.

[DarchAngelDavid]

Shockwave saved my life many times. Knocking down large numbers of enemys even if they were behind cover let us light them up and gave us a chance for great set ups. It also worked wonders on levels that had lots of Husk running around.

[Ackillez]

Not a big fan of shockwave. Pull is so much better, shame the vanguard has to sacrifice squad cryo to get pull field. Shockwave will barely keep the enemies down until the cooldown is up, pull will see them still flying around a that point, helplessly vulnerable to getting warp explosion'd or whatever you may fancy.

[cxensign]

VirtualAlex wrote...

If someone could specifically name a situation where shockwave is the best spell to cast I might think about it. The most obvious situation is vs a line of un-armored husks. But even though singularty, pull field and throw field would all be better.

The main advantage of Shockwave is that it's the strongest biotic ability if you're throwing it wildly.  If you're tactically using your powers to maximum effect, it's poor, but bluntly most players don't play that way.  A lot of players have no experience with shooters, and it wouldn't surprise me if a majority of people who play this game have some amount of difficulty with normal.  At that skill level, Shockwave is king, and it's a very well designed power with that in mind.

But for a FPS-experienced, cooldown maximizing player who knows how to curve Pull and place Singularities?  Not useful at all.

[RubiconI7]

Hoffburger wrote...

eduh wrote...

overpowered against husks on easier difficulties, waste of points for anything else.

Fixed. Also, all biotics except Warp are useless on hardcore/insanity.

Uh...Singularity

[Arde5643]

cxensign wrote...

VirtualAlex wrote...

If someone could specifically name a situation where shockwave is the best spell to cast I might think about it. The most obvious situation is vs a line of un-armored husks. But even though singularty, pull field and throw field would all be better.

The main advantage of Shockwave is that it's the strongest biotic ability if you're throwing it wildly.  If you're tactically using your powers to maximum effect, it's poor, but bluntly most players don't play that way.  A lot of players have no experience with shooters, and it wouldn't surprise me if a majority of people who play this game have some amount of difficulty with normal.  At that skill level, Shockwave is king, and it's a very well designed power with that in mind.

But for a FPS-experienced, cooldown maximizing player who knows how to curve Pull and place Singularities?  Not useful at all.

Sadly, this doesn't surprise me at all -most people probably tried to use shockwave in hardcore and insanity the same way they used it on veteran and below difficulties.
Close and medium range combat while they're getting shot at - basically, the worst place to use shockwave.

[kefka004]

Shockwave feels like the red-headed step child of Adept/Vanguard abilities. It just doesn't fit into either playstyle. If an Adept doesn't have a singularity bottleneck set up, something's not right. Anything stripped of defenses in the singularity is already helpless and shockwave just seems redundant. Why not just use heavy throw or warp and finish the job?



Putting this ability on the Vanguard makes me scratch my head a bit. If you don't have a shotgun in someone's face, you're doing it wrong. And in those rare instances where there's an unreachable target and the Vanguard is forced into long range combat, pull is simply better than shockwave.

[Ackillez]

kefka004 wrote...

Shockwave feels like the red-headed step child of Adept/Vanguard abilities. It just doesn't fit into either playstyle. If an Adept doesn't have a singularity bottleneck set up, something's not right. Anything stripped of defenses in the singularity is already helpless and shockwave just seems redundant. Why not just use heavy throw or warp and finish the job?

Putting this ability on the Vanguard makes me scratch my head a bit. If you don't have a shotgun in someone's face, you're doing it wrong. And in those rare instances where there's an unreachable target and the Vanguard is forced into long range combat, pull is simply better than shockwave.

The real shame is that pull requires shockwave 2, which means getting area pull means foregoing squad cryo for the vanguard. And area pull is so very appropriate for the vanguard too; you have charge for bringing you close to most enemies, and pull to bring those enemies you can't get to to you instead.

personally I think the 6 second cooldown is too high on shockwave. Giving it a 3 second cooldown would make it somewhat useful.

[OneBadAssMother]

Warp and Charge seem to be only decent biotic stuff on insanity. However I would say even Warp is rather ineffective at insanity. Charge however, you can 'teleport' to enemy snipers behind enemy lines, blast them with ur shotgun, then snipe the enemy's butts while they are taking cover from ur squadmates. Heh.

[kefka004]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

Warp and Charge seem to be only decent biotic stuff on insanity. However I would say even Warp is rather ineffective at insanity. Charge however, you can 'teleport' to enemy snipers behind enemy lines, blast them with ur shotgun, then snipe the enemy's butts while they are taking cover from ur squadmates. Heh.

I disagree.  I think that all biotics are useful on Insanity, even shockwave as long as Jack's the one using it.  Singularity works on everything regardless of protection and even does chip damage to armor/shields/barriers if you take the Nemesis passive ability.  It also trivializes fights with Harbingers or Scions as you can permanantly lock them down and focus your attention on the drones.  Pull is your main setup move allowing you to either fling the enemy off the map or warp detonate them.  If you look at biotics individually then they are pretty weak, but they were designed to work in conjunction with each other.  I do agree about charge being a good move though.  I'd rank it right up there with Tech Armor as the best ability in the game.

[OneBadAssMother]

I have to re-evaluate my post, it seems the extra armor/shield protection enemies get in insanity are rather easy to take down, allowing biotics to fully use them. So it seems biotics are useful after all, but now come to think of it, overpowered in lower difficulties. My wife's adept didnt even need to fire her gun.

And yeah, charge was great. But I gave up on vanguard insanity run getting stuck at the very start of purgatory!!! No chargeable strategic positions there heh. Just a bunch of desks in a closed room.

Modifié par OneBadAssMother, 09 mars 2010 - 05:34 .

[Arde5643]

If you want, you can hold off purgatory until you get more levels after horizon.

You can just do N7 side missions to unlock horizon.



Horizon is nothing compared to purgatory's "make you my ****" warden Kuril fight.

[kefka004]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

I have to re-evaluate my post, it seems the extra armor/shield protection enemies get in insanity are rather easy to take down, allowing biotics to fully use them. So it seems biotics are useful after all, but now come to think of it, overpowered in lower difficulties. My wife's adept didnt even need to fire her gun.

And yeah, charge was great. But I gave up on vanguard insanity run getting stuck at the very start of purgatory!!! No chargeable strategic positions there heh. Just a bunch of desks in a closed room.

Yeah, the beginning of that mission isn't very Vanguard friendly, particularly that narrow hallway after the first room.  I'd recommend just switching over to your SMG and picking them off with Pull and your squadmates' abilities.  Or if you have the Avalanche you could just charge into a group and freeze them to expedite those first couple of rooms.

Man, this is making me want to fire up another Vanguard playthrough.

Modifié par kefka004, 09 mars 2010 - 05:50 .

[thisisme8]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

I have to re-evaluate my post, it seems the extra armor/shield protection enemies get in insanity are rather easy to take down, allowing biotics to fully use them. So it seems biotics are useful after all, but now come to think of it, overpowered in lower difficulties. My wife's adept didnt even need to fire her gun.

And yeah, charge was great. But I gave up on vanguard insanity run getting stuck at the very start of purgatory!!! No chargeable strategic positions there heh. Just a bunch of desks in a closed room.

I can make a video for you if you want.  The first part is cake.  It's the rest of the mission that becomes trouble.

[D3thray]

VirtualAlex wrote...

I played both Adept and Vanguard on insanity and this skill is lacking. If it actually did some damage it might be ok. Granted I never got it up to the 4th power level I did have it maxed out on Jack and it still didn't do anything. It does stagger people and that is worth something but I would spend my cooldown time casting other spells for sure.

If someone could specifically name a situation where shockwave is the best spell to cast I might think about it. The most obvious situation is vs a line of un-armored husks. But even though singularty, pull field and throw field would all be better.

Collector platforms.  Goes thru cover and all you have to do is strip the barrier off first.  Combine with Slam for added hilarity.

Edit: tho I have to agree with it being much better coming from Jack.  Plus Jack can provide squad warp ammo.  And tatoos.  Jack's just a great squadmate.  Jack.

Modifié par D3thray, 09 mars 2010 - 06:08 .

[OneBadAssMother]

Thanks, but I'll probably get back to Vanguard the next sickie from work I throw anyway. I'll be reading a lot of guides beforehand however. No need to make a video, I'm sure there are already heaps.



May have to restart the whole thing however. And play it smarter, choosing my missions carefully.

[thisisme8]

OneBadAssMother wrote...

Thanks, but I'll probably get back to Vanguard the next sickie from work I throw anyway. I'll be reading a lot of guides beforehand however. No need to make a video, I'm sure there are already heaps.

May have to restart the whole thing however. And play it smarter, choosing my missions carefully.

Well, it's too late.  I already made it.  Twice.  I edited it to save time, but ran through right afterwards again because the enemy spawns seemed off.  Anyway, it's uploaded to Youtube, but you can't see it until the site maintenance is done.

[thisisme8]

The video is up.  Read the description for the easiest way to clear that area.  Good luck!

ME2 - Jack's Recruitment Beginning

Will be in 720p when done processing, so give it time if the quality isn't so hot.

[OneBadAssMother]

Damn! Well done! I should have watched that vid before I gave up! Guess I'm too used to 'hold the line, advance, hold the line, advance, repeat' strategy playing infiltrator. Never tried such an aggressive approach. Thanks a lot!

[Spyndel]

Arde5643 wrote...


Horizon is nothing compared to purgatory's "make you my ****" warden Kuril fight.

This is the second time Ive seen someone refer to that fight as difficult.

Am I the only one who just cheeses it by shooting all the shield generators (with pistols if need be) from the nearly infallible safety of the the little bit of cover they start you at, then either  sniping the warden, or rushing him up the left if youre a vangaurd with no long distance abilities?  I generally find the area before the final boss more difficult on that mission.

[edit] And to clarify, the double scions + multiple husk rush sequences on horizon frequently gives me more trouble than Kuril.  Not so much the stuff after that.

Modifié par Spyndel, 09 mars 2010 - 07:59 .

[thisisme8]

Pretty much any room with a YMIR in it is harder for me than the Kuril fight.

[OneBadAssMother]

Argh, now I have to try Vanguard again.



As for YMIRs, at Freedom's Progress with my Vanguard, I ended up circling that YMIR with a crate in between us, and almost playing 'hide and seek' heh. Found an AI flaw in the process, the eye sees you, but the right arm cant shoot past the crate. It just stood there missing me while I hammered it down.

[thisisme8]

Regarding whether or not Shockwave is useful?  I find it extremely useful on Jack.  She's one of my favorite Characters.  See:

ME2 - How not to Play a Vanguard
ME2 - How not to Play a Vanguard 2
ME2 - Controlling the Battlefield - Advanced Positioning
ME2 - Controlling the Battlefield - Assaulting the High Ground

For OneBadAssMother:

ME2 - Painseeker is a Team Player

How can you not want to play Vanguard?

[OneBadAssMother]

Shockwave is useful... if played by thisisme8 it seems heh

I'm learning a lot, looks like I'll go Vanguard again. This time to finish it.  So much different from sniping!

Modifié par OneBadAssMother, 09 mars 2010 - 08:24 .

[Arde5643]

Spyndel wrote...

Arde5643 wrote...


Horizon is nothing compared to purgatory's "make you my ****" warden Kuril fight.

This is the second time Ive seen someone refer to that fight as difficult.

Am I the only one who just cheeses it by shooting all the shield generators (with pistols if need be) from the nearly infallible safety of the the little bit of cover they start you at, then either  sniping the warden, or rushing him up the left if youre a vangaurd with no long distance abilities?  I generally find the area before the final boss more difficult on that mission.

[edit] And to clarify, the double scions + multiple husk rush sequences on horizon frequently gives me more trouble than Kuril.  Not so much the stuff after that.

Hmm, perhaps I should try that - i always get frustrated with trying to take out the last one near the spawning point of the mooks.