8 réponses à ce sujet

[Asharad Hett]

We know that the catalyst/AI determined that his best solution was the reaper cycles.   This thread is to discuss alternatives that could have been available, but were rejected by the catalyst.   I will start with solutions that I have considered.  It will be interesting to debate pros and cons of various options.  (I apologize if this has already been done).

 

Solution 1:

Convince the Leviathans to police their organic subjects.  Leviathans would outlaw AI development, with death penalty for violators.  After the police state has been established, the Catalyst would need to commit suicide (as he is also a threat to organics).

 

Solution 2:

You fail to convince the Leviathans to police their organic subjects, so you harvest the Leviathans and use the newborn reapers to police the galaxy.  If AI is developed, then use the reapers to destroy that AI and punish the violators.  The catalyst would need to exist as the sole AI.

 

Solution 3:

Allow organics to develop AI.  Decree that disputes between organics and AI will result in the warring parties to be punished via reaping.

 

Solution 4:

Create an AI sanctuary in a remote section of the galaxy.  Whenever AI are created, immediately whisk them away to the sanctuary.   Organics within the sanctuary would be evicted or eradicated.  Any attempt by either party to cross the  border will result in..... reaping.  

 

 

 

[Batarian Master Race]

Solution 1: The Leviathan aren't trustworthy in the slightest. I figure the galaxy would end up enthralled.

 

Solution 2: The Reapers aren't trustworthy in the slightest. I figure the galaxy would end up indoctrinated.

 

Solution 3: If an AI race attacks someone and they defend themselves, would the defenders be reaped despite not having done anything wrong? Also, that's a pretty big sword to hang over someone's head.

 

Solution 4: That's a little too... internment camp-like, isn't it? Also, revolutions and rebellions do happen, and then you'd have an extremely angry collection of AIs ready to wreak havoc.

[Dantriges]

I think the OP is talking about the time when the Catalyst first came up with his conclusion about the organic-synthetic problem and had to find a solution. So it´s a situation one billion years in the past.

[Asharad Hett]

I think the OP is talking about the time when the Catalyst first came up with his conclusion about the organic-synthetic problem and had to find a solution. So it´s a situation one billion years in the past.

 

Yep.   I am curious what other options were explored by the Catalyst before his first reaping.  Surely he had other choices, but decided that reaping was his best choice.  The options that I suggested are crap, I admit that.  

 

Let's lay out all of the options.... what would you have considered if you were the Catalyst, one billion years ago?

[Thrombin]

The problem with all those is that, sooner or later, the other races will evolve technology that is more powerful than Leviathan or the Reapers. It is only by resetting their civilisations every 50,000 years that the Reapers prevent the races or their AI's from developing to a point where the Reapers wouldn't be able to stop them.

[Dantriges]

Well, the Leviathan had everyone under their thrall, so tech developed by someone else would be handed over to the Leviathan pretty quickly, if they were interested.

[Asharad Hett]

The problem with all those is that, sooner or later, the other races will evolve technology that is more powerful than Leviathan or the Reapers. It is only by resetting their civilisations every 50,000 years that the Reapers prevent the races or their AI's from developing to a point where the Reapers wouldn't be able to stop them.

 

So there was no other solution?

[Thrombin]

So there was no other solution?

 

It's actually entirely possible that there was no other solution, yes. At least assuming that you buy the Reapers' conclusion that one day an AI with access to sufficient technology will hit on the idea that all organic life should be eradicated.

 

More than that, the events of ME3 showed that even the cycles weren't a solution as organics were shown to be capable of hiding stuff from the Reapers and thus leap-frogging the development of the tech that could stop them (the refuse ending proving that they were right and only one more cycle away from the failure of their mission).

 

Where the Reapers are wrong, isn't really in their solution but in their priorities and in their goal itself.

 

They interpreted their mission as perserving "organic life" as a concept rather than the specific examples of organic life that the Leviathan had in mind. They saw their mission as a desire to prevent a far future event that would wipe out all organic life everywhere, whereas organics, of course, would be perfectly happy to be preserved for as long as possible and never mind what happens in a future so distant that it's hardly relevant and may not even happen.

 

Well, the Leviathan had everyone under their thrall, so tech developed by someone else would be handed over to the Leviathan pretty quickly, if they were interested.

 

I suspect their ability to enthrall was not quite that far-reaching or all-encompassing. If it was, they would never have needed the AI they created to devise a solution in the first place.

[Dantriges]

I suspect their ability to enthrall was not quite that far-reaching or all-encompassing. If it was, they would never have needed the AI they created to devise a solution in the first place.

 

We saw their ability in action during the Leviathan DLC. Complete control of a whole facilty in a different cluster of the galaxy (via artifact) for a decade and it only broke off, because the artifact got destroyed when one of the thralls blew it up and himself. So well they can issue suicide commands and it seems that their mind control isn´t as harmful as Reaper indoctrination. Perhaps they didn´t had the artifacts back then, OTOH when they were rulers of the galaxy, they could simply reside on the respective planet. The miners also did research they should have no proficiency in. And we know that the Leviathan built their empire via mindcontrol. So it seems quite far reaching and pretty broad in application.

 

So yeah sounds weird that they needed the intelligence to devise a solution.

A possible explanation could be that the Leviathan empire became very decadent and greedy. Time spent mind controlling thralls was time not spent on enjoying the benefits of the tributes. Could be that they still have to concentrate their attention on the thrall end when doing that. They saw the problem that thral races got wiped out but it wasn´t a threat to them. OTOH they wanted the benefits of synthetic advancement for their thrall species like increased production, more tribute, whatever. 

 

They didn´t find a solution themselves or it was too time consuming, so they built a tool to find a solution and went back to the orgies. Sounds pathetic but hey, they are the race that watched the Reapers doing their thing for a couple centuries then going back to sleep for a billion years and they did nothing in the vast stretches in between.

 

it´s a bit thin perhaps but well I have to work with what BW handed out .