75 réponses à ce sujet

[Arisugawa]

What how is Vivienne hypnotical. She never says one shouldn't reach for power. She constantly says one should strive for more actually. As for the SunBurst there's nothing wrong with going for it. The Chantry doesn't actively rule over anything. They are just leaders of faith nothing more. They don't make laws for nations or require taxes yadayada. She doesn't use Magic to make people her slaves.

 

That isn't entirely true.

 

The Divine is perfectly capable of calling an Exalted March, or dispatching the forces of her Left and Right hands to deal with matters.

 

The Chantry doesn't necessarily rule, but many rulers will either defer to it or take its word seriously. The Chantry, and the Divine, are not without significant teeth and have been known to use them when they deem it appropriate.

 

And prior to the Mage-Templar war, the Chantry very much controlled the Templars and the Circles. This is something that Vivienne has stated she would restore.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I hope Solas doesn't go the full villain route further down the line. He's too well written and interesting to be inflexible on his path.

 

The narrative already hints that we will be able to convince him to stray from his path. I hope we can, not in a cheesy redemption story sense but by showing him our wrong his conclusions are, like Varric tried to do.

[KaiserShep]

Varric and Solas are interesting , because Varric is the wise one .

• Varric: What's with you and the doom stuff? Are you always this cheery or is the hole in the sky getting to you?
• Solas: I've no idea what you mean.
• Varric: All the "fallen empire" crap you go on about. What's so great about empires anyway?
• Varric: So we lost the Deep Roads, and Orzammar's too proud to ask for help. So what? We're not Orzammar and we're not our empire.
• Varric: There are tens of thousands of us living up here in the sunlight now, and it's not that bad.
• Varric: Life goes on. It's just different than it used to be.
• Solas: And you have no concept of what that difference cost you.
• Varric: Oh I know what it didn't cost me. I'm still here, even after all those thaigs fell.
• Solas: You truly are content to sit in the sun, never wondering what you could've been, never fighting back?
• Varric: Ha, you've got it all wrong, Chuckles. This is fighting back.
• Solas: How does passively accepting your fate constitute a fight?
• Varric: In that story of yours—the fisherman watching the stars, dying alone—you thought he gave up right?
• Solas: Yes.
• Varric: But he went on living. He lost everyone, but he still got up every morning. He made a life, even if it was alone.
• Varric: That's the world. Everything you build, it tears down. Everything you've got, it takes—and it's gone forever.
• Varric: The only choices you get are to lie down and die or keep going. He kept going. That's as close to beating the world as anyone gets.
• Solas: Well said. Perhaps I was mistaken.

I remember this banter. People can say what they want about Varric, but I love that dwarf.

[rapscallioness]

One of the themes I kept seeing come up was Solas asking the companions if they had the chance would they basically take over, or wouldn't they want to.

 

Like with Sera and the Jennies, Solas says wouldn't you want to get rid of the old rulers and est something better? And Sera is like for what? Lop off one head so another that's even worse comes and frigs it all up?

 

Also with Varric Solas asks wouldn't he want the dwarven empire back? And Varric is like for what? Solas talks about all the thing Varric may have lost and what could have been. Varric says I know what I have not lost. I know what I have and I like who I am.

 

Even IB Solas asks if Bull would want the Qun over Thedas. It's a bit more complicated, but when pushed Bull says he thinks the Qun would be good, although the carnage to get there would not be worth it. So he hopes it never happens. This rankled Solas. He said Bull just did not want to get his hands dirty. However, I think it rankled Solas for other reasons like even the Qunari guy thinks its bad.

 

Overall I think not just the Inquisitor, but the companions were very good for Solas. Everything from Sera putting lizards in his bedroll and talking about who wants to step on dead elves..lol! "Oh you felt that one."

 

To Blackwall slyly asking if Solas has been more than just friends with some of these spirits in the fade. nudge. nudge. wink. wink. Solas says it's comlicated. lol. Blackwall: "Aha". Eventually  Solas calls him an azz.

 

They kept it real for him. Brought him down to earth. Kept him humble-ish. I think it made a difference. Hopefully it will...

[TraiHarder]

That isn't entirely true.

The Divine is perfectly capable of calling an Exalted March, or dispatching the forces of her Left and Right hands to deal with matters.

The Chantry doesn't necessarily rule, but many rulers will either defer to it or take its word seriously. The Chantry, and the Divine, are not without significant teeth and have been known to use them when they deem it appropriate.

And prior to the Mage-Templar war, the Chantry very much controlled the Templars and the Circles. This is something that Vivienne has stated she would restore.

The forces the Divine control do not compare to empires other nations control. They control the Templar's fully yes (other than for demon control lol) .but they only have influence in the circles. The Circles started as a way for Mages to govern themselves. Their not 100% control can be seen through how each circle is different in it own way. Some are more like college's and some are like prisons.

No doubt the Chantry has great influence with each nation but when it comes to it the would not be able to over throw anyone.

And there is nothing wrong with wanting to revive the Templar's and Circles there needs to be each. Young mates need to be trained so they they won't be tempted by demons and so they know how to control their power. While there is a need for Templar's to protect the mates from themselves and others. And to protect the innocent from those who abuse their power.

[Arisugawa]

The forces the Divine control do not compare to empires other nations control. They control the Templar's fully yes (other than for demon control lol) .but they only have influence in the circles. The Circles started as a way for Mages to govern themselves. Their not 100% control can be seen through how each circle is different in it own way. Some are more like college's and some are like prisons.
No doubt the Chantry has great influence with each nation but when it comes to it the would not be able to over throw anyone.
And there is nothing wrong with wanting to revive the Templar's and Circles there needs to be each. Young mates need to be trained so they they won't be tempted by demons and so they know how to control their power. While there is a need for Templar's to protect the mates from themselves and others. And to protect the innocent from those who abuse their power.

So, in other words, you agree with my assessment.

[vertigomez]

Varric and Solas are interesting , because Varric is the wise one .

• Varric: What's with you and the doom stuff? Are you always this cheery or is the hole in the sky getting to you?
• Solas: I've no idea what you mean.
• Varric: All the "fallen empire" crap you go on about. What's so great about empires anyway?
• Varric: So we lost the Deep Roads, and Orzammar's too proud to ask for help. So what? We're not Orzammar and we're not our empire.
• Varric: There are tens of thousands of us living up here in the sunlight now, and it's not that bad.
• Varric: Life goes on. It's just different than it used to be.
• Solas: And you have no concept of what that difference cost you.
• Varric: Oh I know what it didn't cost me. I'm still here, even after all those thaigs fell.
• Solas: You truly are content to sit in the sun, never wondering what you could've been, never fighting back?
• Varric: Ha, you've got it all wrong, Chuckles. This is fighting back.
• Solas: How does passively accepting your fate constitute a fight?
• Varric: In that story of yours—the fisherman watching the stars, dying alone—you thought he gave up right?
• Solas: Yes.
• Varric: But he went on living. He lost everyone, but he still got up every morning. He made a life, even if it was alone.
• Varric: That's the world. Everything you build, it tears down. Everything you've got, it takes—and it's gone forever.
• Varric: The only choices you get are to lie down and die or keep going. He kept going. That's as close to beating the world as anyone gets.
• Solas: Well said. Perhaps I was mistaken.

Beautiful.

Also, anyone notice how Solas constantly refers to him as "Child of the Stone", despite Varric feeling like his dwarfiness is incidental? Because of where he's coming from, Solas simply cannot conceive of people whose identity is not wrapped up in their race. He has the same issue with Sera.

He feels like they're missing something - they feel they aren't - and he's taken it upon himself to show them that they are Wrong and he is Right.

[Darkstarr11]

 

Found it.  Solas was totally messing with Cole's head.  No wonder he acted so off during Trespasser!

Another example here...

 

 

So with Cole, who is all about helping people...hmmm, how does he fit here.  Actually, Solas and Cole BOTH want to help.  In the beginning, Cole helped mages by...shuffling off the mortal coil.  Solas...is about to shuffle humanity off the coil.  Yet, Cole over time realizes what he is doing is wrong. He admits to it.  Cole actually admits that he WAS a demon (of sorts).  Solas...proclaims that he is NOT a monster.  Yet, he effectively lobotomizes a friend, and betrays the rest.  Both admit their mistakes, but Cole attempts to make amends.  Solas decides to stay true to his path, refusing to consider that it might be wrong...or even if he does, refuses to change course due to the reasons I previously mentioned...

 

As to how this relates to Trespasser Cole...I think Solas IS manipulating him to keep him from discovering what he is up to.  Possibly, subconsciously, he is projecting a version of himself to Cole that IS heroic and kind, because once it comes to light what he is REALLY up to, Cole may be the only one who still thinks that way.  Possibly the desperate influence of a being who, deep down, desires that SOMEONE remember him fondly rather than the monster that he actually fears he is.  

[rpgfan321]

While I give credit to Solas for being crafty, I think he cares too much for Cole for who he is to change him and try to fit him into his plans. There was a banter with Cole about how Solas emphasized spirits of Compassion are so rare (along with Wisdom) and he very much want Cole to exist for who he is as a spirit of Compassion. He was really adamant  during Cole's personal quest, too. He was very protective of Cole as spirit/human and the stance of him turning more toward spirit.

 

Solas did alter and used his powers to omit a memory from Cole, but I think that was done merely as self-defence and as a temporary modification with no lasting, permanent effect. Solas did not know Cole existed until he joined the Inquisition and certainly not before Solas decided to enact his plan to change Thedas for his "better" future. So, Cole could not be part of his plan at all. As for manipulating, I'm a bit iffy about this part because Solas acknowledge spirits as a real thing unlike the people of Thedas. Therefore, wouldn't Solas respect Cole as he is/was to manipulate him? Solas manipulated everyone else for his plans, but Cole? Maybe I'm being too soft and biased about Solas - Cole relationship because part of me knows Solas is well capable of justifying anything.

 

All I know is that after DA:I post credit and Trespasser, when I replay Inquisition, I'll never look at that egg the same again.

[Darkstarr11]

While I give credit to Solas for being crafty, I think he cares too much for Cole for who he is to change him and try to fit him into his plans. There was a banter with Cole about how Solas emphasized spirits of Compassion are so rare (along with Wisdom) and he very much want Cole to exist for who he is as a spirit of Compassion. He was really adamant  during Cole's personal quest, too. He was very protective of Cole as spirit/human and the stance of him turning more toward spirit.

 

Solas did alter and used his powers to omit a memory from Cole, but I think that was done merely as self-defence and as a temporary modification with no lasting, permanent effect. Solas did not know Cole existed until he joined the Inquisition and certainly not before Solas decided to enact his plan to change Thedas for his "better" future. So, Cole could not be part of his plan at all. As for manipulating, I'm a bit iffy about this part because Solas acknowledge spirits as a real thing unlike the people of Thedas. Therefore, wouldn't Solas respect Cole as he is/was to manipulate him? Solas manipulated everyone else for his plans, but Cole? Maybe I'm being too soft and biased about Solas - Cole relationship because part of me knows Solas is well capable of justifying anything.

 

All I know is that after DA:I post credit and Trespasser, when I replay Inquisition, I'll never look at that egg the same again.

 

Yeah, I'm kinda spitballing with my theory there, and there is evidence that I'm wrong, but I felt I had to put it out there for discussion.  I AM replaying it, and I find myself analyzing everything he says for subtext and hidden meanings.  I'm probably OVERanalyzing what he says.  When you catch yourself pondering the inflections of his voice when he says hello, it screams crazy, or...lack of sleep.  Maybe both.  I figure, as long as your bangers and mash haven't started talking to you yet, you haven't crossed the line ALL the way into mad.

 

...I think.  Maybe.

 

Still there is a lot to the relationship between them that I'm trying to understand.  Solas IS fascinating.  Is he evil?  Crazy?  Dangerous?  Corrupt?  Arrogant?  Tragic?  Mistaken?  Are the positives that we see in him hope for ourselves?  Are his mistakes ones that WE might make in his place?  At what point does a hero cross that line and become the villain?  Can we save him?  Does he DESERVE to be saved?  Can he be redeemed, or has that point long since gone?  Are those things that we find repugnant within him merely things reflected in ourselves?

 

[rpgfan321]

Yeah, I'm kinda spitballing with my theory there, and there is evidence that I'm wrong, but I felt I had to put it out there for discussion.  I AM replaying it, and I find myself analyzing everything he says for subtext and hidden meanings.  I'm probably OVERanalyzing what he says.  When you catch yourself pondering the inflections of his voice when he says hello, it screams crazy, or...lack of sleep.  Maybe both.  I figure, as long as your bangers and mash haven't started talking to you yet, you haven't crossed the line ALL the way into mad.

 

...I think.  Maybe.

 

Still there is a lot to the relationship between them that I'm trying to understand.  Solas IS fascinating.  Is he evil?  Crazy?  Dangerous?  Corrupt?  Arrogant?  Tragic?  Mistaken?  Are the positives that we see in him hope for ourselves?  Are his mistakes ones that WE might make in his place?  At what point does a hero cross that line and become the villain?  Can we save him?  Does he DESERVE to be saved?  Can he be redeemed, or has that point long since gone?  Are those things that we find repugnant within him merely things reflected in ourselves?

 

*snip*

I know what you mean. I now overanalyze and focus on Solas so much that I don't bring with him at all because I just want to enjoy the game and not study one character! XD

 

I agree that Solas is the best antagonist BW has created to date. There's so much potential that players can invest upon that there will be some sort of emotional attachment for impact when we see how Solas' story ends (hopefully... and not drag on to include him in future games, but from scope of things it sounds like he's gonna be looming over future DA games) This character is so steeped in the moral gray. I love it!

 

And because he's so tied into being Inquisitor's rival, I get why people want the Inquisitor to make a come back as DA4 protagonist, but I just don't see that. I feel like the rival role will continue on both ends, but in the background as both Solas and Inquisitor has to be behind shadows to fully do their work. (but that's another discussion already started in another thread).

 

I really wish there was a post-Solas reveal meet up with everyone and see their reactions But for sake of drama, I understand the way things ended. We did get that hilarious post-credit goodie with Cassandra to lighten everyone's mood.

[Darkstarr11]

I know what you mean. I now overanalyze and focus on Solas so much that I don't bring with him at all because I just want to enjoy the game and not study one character! XD

 

I agree that Solas is the best antagonist BW has created to date. There's so much potential that players can invest upon that there will be some sort of emotional attachment for impact when we see how Solas' story ends (hopefully... and not drag on to include him in future games, but from scope of things it sounds like he's gonna be looming over future DA games) This character is so steeped in the moral gray. I love it!

 

And because he's so tied into being Inquisitor's rival, I get why people want the Inquisitor to make a come back as DA4 protagonist, but I just don't see that. I feel like the rival role will continue on both ends, but in the background as both Solas and Inquisitor has to be behind shadows to fully do their work. (but that's another discussion already started in another thread).

 

I really wish there was a post-Solas reveal meet up with everyone and see their reactions But for sake of drama, I understand the way things ended. We did get that hilarious post-credit goodie with Cassandra to lighten everyone's mood.

 

 

He IS the Inquisitors rival, when you think about it.  I have, as have others, used the Magneto/Professor X relationship to highlight the Fen'Harel/Inquisitor connection.  In that dynamic, they often work through proxies to continue their 'chess match'.  On many occasions, though THEY are rivals, it is through others that they fight their battles.  Often, they only meet in the aftermath.  When they DO meet, it is rarely on equal terms.  I can see the Inquisitor evolving into this kind of role.  Of course I'd love them back...but I'd love Hawke back as well.  I DON'T want the Inquisitor in the same situation as Hawke was.  I thought Hawke deserved a much better role than they got.  

 

So, back to Solas and Inqy.  They now stand as opposites in this game of immortals.  One has immense power, they other had A power taken from them.  The Mark.  Yet, that only represents PART of who they are.  The skills, the knowledge, the training...it ISN'T gone.  Now, they have to redirect their focus.  Become...more cerebral and cunning.  In many ways, they are now the Dread Wolf...and Solas is the Evanuris.  He seeks to enslave a world to his vision, and the Inquisitor must find a means to stop him.  Both want a better world...HOW they get there is vastly different.  So now, they need another.  Solas trusts no one, not really, so he pursues his goals by taking a direct hand.  The Inquisitor, with the Anchor removed, has to work through agents.  Find someone that Solas can not counter, someone that CAN make the play that ends his plans to reshape the world.  

 

I too wish we'd gotten a post-DLC reaction, but sadly it was not to be.  Perhaps we'll see something in the sequel, or in other media.  Time will tell...

 

Stupid time.

[TraiHarder]

In other words I just proved your assessment wrong.

[Korva]

@TraiHarder: I call her a hypocrite because she makes a lot of noise about how badly the actions of other mages reflect on all mages, yet grasps for power and control without a thought as to how her own actions reflects on all mages. She's a mage who has shown no noticable inclination towards faith, or towards reforms that benefit other people, or towards charity, or towards any other trait one might want in an inspiring spiritual authority rather than a hardcore politician -- and such a mage comes out of nowhere and tries to hijack the Divine election? That would upset me as a "mere mundane" a lot more than an ex-Circle getting more freedom would. At least those normal mages would still be answerable to someone. Local authorities or templars or the Inquisition could always be called in to deal with them when they get out of line. Whom does the Divine answer to? Technically nobody. Apparently, a Divine Vivienne is regarded as a tyrant in rather short order, and that is hardly a surprise. I don't hate Vivienne, but I do see her as a disappointing character.

 

I think there is quite a big difference between what Blackwall did and what Solas did.

 

Yeah. One is trying to atone, albeit in an extremely flawed way. The other wants to destroy the world. The former eventually comes clean and is ready to face the consequences for both his original crimes and his deceit. The latter refuses to pay the price he knows he should. Blackwall absolutely shouldn't have taken that identity or lied to us for so long, but at least he's actually, fully on our side.

 

You may not agree with his direction, and you would have no reason to, if you are not Elvhen, but you cannot say he is being self-serving.

 

He's a borderline case, I think. While he doesn't act for his own glory or godhood, he does place his own desires over the fate of an entire world and all the lives within, and he comes up with convenient excuses for why he is not a "monster" regardless.

[roselavellan]

 

Yeah. One is trying to atone, albeit in an extremely flawed way. The other wants to destroy the world.

 

(snip)

 

He's a borderline case, I think. While he doesn't act for his own glory or godhood, he does place his own desires over the fate of an entire world and all the lives within, and he comes up with convenient excuses for why he is not a "monster" regardless.

 

Actually what Solas is trying to do is save the ancient elves, as they still exist somewhere (as was implied in dialogue with Abelas), and restore the Elvhen people as they were. He is doing it for his people, not for himself (especially since he acknowledges that he will die in the process), so I still maintain he's not being selfish.

 

And it seems the current world will somehow "die" in the process, but we have no idea how and to what extent, at this point in time. So it's pretty difficult to judge someone on the basis of a few phrases here and there. But since we're talking hypothetically, because that's all this is at the moment, what if the situation was reversed, and you could only save the dying human race at the expense of the other races? I'm sure many of us would find the decision a little easier to stomach. It would still be a monstrous act, sure, but maybe one can see the moral ambiguity of it then.

[TraiHarder]

So, in other words, you agree with my assessment.

 

No in other words I just totally proved your statement wrong.

[In Exile]

Yes and yes. Those are perfect examples of why I grit my teeth at the way Cole was used in the DLC. Even if he was sincerely ignorant due to Solas' strong self-control and ability to interfere with his spirit-powers, these facts must have been a rude awakening that absolutely demand acknowledgement. Without that, Cole is cheapened as a character in his own right. And if he was aware but nonetheless decided to keep silent and thus tacitly support Solas, he's at best heavily in denial and at worst sees nothing wrong with it all. That would completely destroy the character for me -- and such deceit, too, would have to be addressed instead of ignored by the writers.

Both Blackwall's and Solas' lies are presented as what they are: massive sledgehammer blows. Both were also foreshadowed for those who know where to look. Cole on the other hand was a positive, hopeful, genuinely caring character with no red flags about potentially being willing to cover for a man actively planning the destruction of the world. That's another reason why I can't believe he knew everything. There's neither a setup nor a payoff for Cole in a role as a willing deceiver.

He got the short end of the stick big time, both in his role as a friend to the Inquisitor and as a character whose motto is "help the hurt, save the small", as someone who is perfectly capable of drawing a deadly line between those who are guilty but sincerely repentant, and those who choose to do harm when they could change their course instead.

You're misunderstanding Cole. He's about compassion. That's his very essence. And that virtue has no worth if it isn't extended to someone like Solas, who was hurt, who is suffering, who does have something bottled up deep inside that eats at him. That's what Cole's banter with Solas about his not being wrong and his needing to learn to let them go is all about, in the end.

You're treating Cole exactly like a person. Even as he moves toward being human, his nature is still very different.

[In Exile]

I hope Solas doesn't go the full villain route further down the line. He's too well written and interesting to be inflexible on his path.

The narrative already hints that we will be able to convince him to stray from his path. I hope we can, not in a cheesy redemption story sense but by showing him our wrong his conclusions are, like Varric tried to do.

I don't think there's a way Solas lives, redeemed or not. Part of why he's so driven on this path is that he clearly can't live with the enormous guilt of having singlehandedly erased his people and his world from existence. Even if he accepts the fact that his current path is a sin of equal magnitude, I can't see how he gets over his past one.

[In Exile]

Actually what Solas is trying to do is save the ancient elves, as they still exist somewhere (as was implied in dialogue with Abelas), and restore the Elvhen people as they were. He is doing it for his people, not for himself (especially since he acknowledges that he will die in the process), so I still maintain he's not being selfish.

And it seems the current world will somehow "die" in the process, but we have no idea how and to what extent, at this point in time. So it's pretty difficult to judge someone on the basis of a few phrases here and there. But since we're talking hypothetically, because that's all this is at the moment, what if the situation was reversed, and you could only save the dying human race at the expense of the other races? I'm sure many of us would find the decision a little easier to stomach. It would still be a monstrous act, sure, but maybe one can see the moral ambiguity of it then.

Solas thinks what he'll do is genocidal. We have this belief from him, and what he tells us explicitly. And wanting an entire culture replaced with your own, to save a people who don't exist anymore at the cost of people who do, is selfish. He's not doing it for the modern elves. He's barely doing it for the ancient ones he doomed to this existence. He's doing it to live with himself.

[roselavellan]

Solas thinks what he'll do is genocidal. We have this belief from him, and what he tells us explicitly. And wanting an entire culture replaced with your own, to save a people who don't exist anymore at the cost of people who do, is selfish. He's not doing it for the modern elves. He's barely doing it for the ancient ones he doomed to this existence. He's doing it to live with himself.

 

The ancient elves still exist, though we don't know how many. Solas says to Abelas at the Well of Sorrows, "Your people yet linger". So he's trying to save those ancient elves still living, as well as restore the world of the ancient elves, so that they may once again be as they were, immortal and all that. Perhaps he's doing this out of a sense of duty, to correct his original mistake, but that does not make it a selfish motivation. Unsound, inequitable, maybe, but not selfish.

 

Also it seems, though the exact meaning is not clear, that he does not expect to survive his actions, as he says to the Inquisitor at the end of Trespasser "I walk the Din'anshiral" (the journey to death).

 

In any case, I think if you paid any attention to his dialogue and banter throughout the game, as well as references to Fen'Harel's history, it is quite clear that his is not a selfish personality. Sure, it is possible that he is doing all this out of selfishness, but then that would run counter to absolutely everything the game has shown us to date about his character.

[Korva]

You're misunderstanding Cole. He's about compassion. That's his very essence. And that virtue has no worth if it isn't extended to someone like Solas, who was hurt, who is suffering, who does have something bottled up deep inside that eats at him.

 

I understand him just fine, which is why I'm annoyed with the way he is used in this DLC. Again: even though he feels with and for everyone who is in pain, he is perfectly willing and able to draw a line between those who sincerely want to change and those who choose to continue hurting others. It's very hard for him, but he does it because he knows that not doing so allows those people to cause more suffering. Being in pain is no excuse to cause others pain. He is not a wet blanket or an enabler.

 

It's bad enough that Trespasser does not allow for reactions to and discussions of Solas' big reveal, but with a character like Cole, it's an even more glaring omission because of his supernatural insights as well as his special bond with Solas. My original fear that he may have known the plan has been mostly calmed, thankfully. And I'm not saying he should hate Solas, or not hope for a shot at redeeming him, or anything of the sort. But after being used so heavily as a pro-Solas mouthpiece in the DLC, after being the character who above all else brought out Solas' good sides so beautifully in the base game, a clarification that he didn't know everything really wouldn't have gone amiss. As would an acknowledgement that friend or not, hurting or not, Solas' plan is atrocious and must be stopped. Cole doesn't just exist for Solas or revolve around Solas. The rest of the whole bloody world, including his other friends whom Solas views as acceptable collateral damage along with everyone else, don't stop mattering just because oh-poor-sad-lonely-little-puppy-dog-Solas-hurts-SO-much. Cole is Compassion -- for everyone, not just one man.

[renfrees]

The ancient elves still exist, though we don't know how many. Solas says to Abelas at the Well of Sorrows, "Your people yet linger". So he's trying to save those ancient elves still living, as well as restore the world of the ancient elves, so that they may once again be as they were, immortal and all that. Perhaps he's doing this out of a sense of duty, to correct his original mistake, but that does not make it a selfish motivation. Unsound, inequitable, maybe, but not selfish.

 

Also it seems, though the exact meaning is not clear, that he does not expect to survive his actions, as he says to the Inquisitor at the end of Trespasser "I walk the Din'anshiral" (the journey to death).

 

In any case, I think if you paid any attention to his dialogue and banter throughout the game, as well as references to Fen'Harel's history, it is quite clear that his is not a selfish personality. Sure, it is possible that he is doing all this out of selfishness, but then that would run counter to absolutely everything the game has shown us to date about his character.

He's doing it to ease his conscience, to fix his mistake (with another one). He hasn't asked anyone, even those remaining ancient elves, if they want that world back. He's decided for them, indeed - for all, just like the first time. Solas has a serious complex of self-righteousness and godhood going.

[roselavellan]

He's doing it to ease his conscience, to fix his mistake (with another one). He hasn't asked anyone, even those remaining ancient elves, if they want that world back. He's decided for them, indeed - for all, just like the first time. Solas has a serious complex of self-righteousness and godhood going.

 

That was my point in the previous post. If you had paid attention to his dialogue and banter throughout the game, you would understand his character better than to think he would do this just to feel better about himself. People who say that are superimposing an extraneous value system onto him.

 

I am not trying to justify what he wants to do. If what he intends to do will really cause the deaths of everyone on Thedas, then it is indisputably a monstrous thing to do, and he acknowledges it (though probably only to a romanced/high approval Inquisitor). All I'm saying is that he is not doing it for selfish reasons. He is many things, and I totally agree he is arrogant, but selfish he is not.

[renfrees]

That was my point in the previous post. If you had paid attention to his dialogue and banter throughout the game, you would understand his character better than to think he would do this just to feel better about himself. People who say that are superimposing an extraneous value system onto him.

 

I am not trying to justify what he wants to do. If what he intends to do will really cause the deaths of everyone on Thedas, then it is indisputably a monstrous thing to do, and he acknowledges it (though probably only to a romanced/high approval Inquisitor). All I'm saying is that he is not doing it for selfish reasons. He is many things, and I totally agree he is arrogant, but selfish he is not.

It IS a selfish reason - calming his conscinece is not for the people, it's for himself, even if he believes what he's doing is for the greater good. Nobody asked him, yet he presumes he's entitled to decide what's better for others.

[roselavellan]

Eh? No, he's not doing it to ease his conscience. I've already outlined my reasons for it in my post.