121 réponses à ce sujet

[draken-heart]

Honestly, OP, I kind of felt the same way as you about Josie's romance. It felt totally out of the blue when it actually starts, and the duel mad no real sense in the long run, especially when you consider that you can play a female, non-human, mage who may not even know the custom to begin with, and all of a sudden you challenge this guy to a duel? odd enough as a female human warrior rogue, completely nonsensical with any other race.

[d1ta]

How about each class has their own 'duelling cinematics'?

A warior will march straight up bashing his/her sword against shield, mage will use whatever arcane power at their disposal and rogues can use dagger or rappier?

(Like in Citadel when Kaidan shows up helping Shep using his biotics instead of his gun.. which makes more sense)

[Xilizhra]

I wouldn't mind if the PC had some form of inherent magical ability in the next game Mark of the Rift style, provided it didn't impact class choice and design, given we're going to Tevinter and magic in some form or another is basically to be expected to some extent. 

 

That said, I'm almost tempted to wish we were forced to play as muggles just because of your weird obsession with forcing mages and blood magic on everyone.

Blood magic was an option given in the first two games, then ripped away in the third. It's hardly unreasonable to want it back.

[Drasanil]

Blood magic was an option given in the first two games, then ripped away in the third. It's hardly unreasonable to want it back.

 

I'd say Blood Magic was a poorly implemented choice in the previous to games, and expecting it to return in a matter similar to its previous incarnation with all the gameplay/lore segregation involved is just downright selfish and/or silly.

 

Given we are going to Tevinter I certainly wouldn't mind seeing blood magic, but not as a separate school.  Because the primary benefit of blood magic isn't necessarily the mind-control aspects [which is awesome and scary, lets be honest] but rather the Lyrium/Mana cheat aspects.

 

As such if Bioware were to include blood magic, I would much rather it was not done as a "specialization" but rather as an integrated part of playing a mage, such as giving you the option during dialogues, cutscenes or even [if feasible] in extreme combat situations to use blood magic. This all of course depending on circumstances which should have consequences, almost all of which universally negative, given even Tevinter officially frowns upon the use of blood magic. 

[Xilizhra]

I'd say Blood Magic was a poorly implemented choice in the previous to games, and expecting it to return in a matter similar to its previous incarnation with all the gameplay/lore segregation involved is just downright selfish and/or silly.

 

Given we are going to Tevinter I certainly wouldn't mind seeing blood magic, but not as a separate school.  Because the primary benefit of blood magic isn't necessarily the mind-control aspects [which is awesome and scary, lets be honest] but rather the Lyrium/Mana cheat aspects.

 

As such if Bioware were to include blood magic, I would much rather it was not done as a "specialization" but rather as an integrated part of playing a mage, such as giving you the option during dialogues, cutscenes or even [if feasible] in extreme combat situations to use blood magic. This all of course depending on circumstances which should have consequences, almost all of which universally negative, given even Tevinter officially frowns upon the use of blood magic. 

How is it possibly selfish or silly? Just have there be potential approval issues for using it for mind control in dialogue options; bam, done. It's not that complicated. However, using blood magic in combat is, to me, much more important and much more about the spells being used then about the health/mana thing, which I care absolutely nothing about; let it still use mana mechanically, for all I care.

 

Truth be told, I think that one could be a blood mage in Inquisition with minimal changes necessary, but if you have more questions about that, I request that you PM me to avoid derailing the thread anymore.

[draken-heart]

given even Tevinter officially frowns upon the use of blood magic. 

 

Of course, Tevinter defines blood magic differently than the rest, so it really does not matter about Blood magic as a skill/ability.

[Arlee]

Is it said right upfront in the duel it isn't a duel to the death? I don't recall that being mentioned at all before you agree to it, but I could have just forgotten.

[KaiserShep]

Blood magic was an option given in the first two games, then ripped away in the third. It's hardly unreasonable to want it back.

It is unreasonable to even speak of my rogue being taken away. Madness.

[Mr.House]

I like how Cullen and Solas who where added as romances later are better and have more content then a romance that was planned from the start.

[Wulfram]

Is it said right upfront in the duel it isn't a duel to the death? I don't recall that being mentioned at all before you agree to it, but I could have just forgotten.

You can learn this through dialogue with Josephine. Basically she says that duels aren't usually fatal but they do carry the risk of serious injury which she doesn't want you to risk.

[Arlee]

You can learn this through dialogue with Josephine. Basically she says that duels aren't usually fatal but they do carry the risk of serious injury which she doesn't want you to risk.

 

Ah I see... That does make less awful then. Still don't really like the inclusion of it but it less of a huge deal than I thought it was then.

[KaiserShep]

I like how Cullen and Solas who where added as romances later are better and have more content then a romance that was planned from the start.

Irony is cruel.

How about each class has their own 'duelling cinematics'?
A warior will march straight up bashing his/her sword against shield, mage will use whatever arcane power at their disposal and rogues can use dagger or rappier?
(Like in Citadel when Kaidan shows up helping Shep using his biotics instead of his gun.. which makes more sense)

For a duel, I'd really prefer that they stick to standard rapiers. The only time it really makes sense to be class specific is if it's during actual combat gameplay, since you obvious wouldn't have the skills or controls necessary for this. I think I prefer the cutscene duel though. The gameplay ones always look kind of silly, like the one against Loghain if you're a mage.

[Wulfram]

Given Thedosian culture, I'd find it a little odd for them to allow magic in this sort of honour duel. Even if you could use it at the landsmeet, that was a more serious, less ritual occurence.

edit: Southern Thedosian culture that is. In Tevinter, I'm sure bringing a sword to a duel would be considered amusingly déclassé among the ruling class.

Though being allowed to just zap the guy with a lightning bolt would have been amusing. Maybe liable to screw up your romance, but still fun. Or perhaps I've just played to much Sith Inquisitor in SW:tOR

[PrinceLionheart]

I have no idea about Jacob, I admit.

 

Jacob clearly wanted the priiize.

[Iakus]

 
For a duel, I'd really prefer that they stick to standard rapiers. The only time it really makes sense to be class specific is if it's during actual combat gameplay, since you obvious wouldn't have the skills or controls necessary for this. I think I prefer the cutscene duel though. The gameplay ones always look kind of silly, like the one against Loghain if you're a mage.

Well, traditionally in a duel, the person being challenged gets to pick the weapons to be fought with.

 

Otranto, clearly, chose rapiers.  

 

And of course since rapiers don't exist as equitable weapons, no inquisitor knows how to use one 

 

Still, the Inquisitor should be able to improvise.

[Iakus]

Actually, one thing that might be fun is having a mage duel scene in Tevinter in the next game, if there's some LI who can only be romanced by a mage.

 

(Or if the PC for the next game is automatically a mage, something that I hope happens.)

Bah, if the next game is in Tevinter, I definitely wanna play a dwarf.

 

And romance a mage.  And cause the mage eugenics-supporters heads to explode

[Boost32]

Bah, if the next game is in Tevinter, I definitely wanna play a dwarf.
 
And romance a mage.  And cause the mage eugenics-supporters heads to explode

Maevaris "married" a dwarf. You will not be the first.

[Iakus]

Maevaris "married" a dwarf. You will not be the first.

Yeah, but Maevaris is leading the charge to reform Tevinter.  She's definitely in the minority atm.

[draken-heart]

Bah, if the next game is in Tevinter, I definitely wanna play a dwarf.

 

And romance a mage.  And cause the mage eugenics-supporters heads to explode

 

I would rather play as a Qunari (Tal-Vashoth) mage, just to watch the Magisterium's collective head explode.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

 If you can't tell why Josephine was attracted to your Inquisitor, then maybe you're playing the game wrong?

 

 

 

So you're annoyed you didn't get sign posts that read exactly what a NPC liked about you? I don't think everything needs to spelled out that way.

 

 

Thats kind of a weird question. Are we willing to date someone without a clue as to why they like or are attracted to us? The other romances do point out why the companion is interested in the inquisitor. It doesn't have to be a direct question and answer but it should be addressed in a romance arc.

[NeverlandHunter]

For starters, let me clarify: this is not a thread to bash Josephine's character. I quite like her character; if I didn't, I wouldn't have romanced her to begin with. None of the problems here really have anything to do with her character; they mostly have to do with story structure and the entire romance's bizarre implementation. Two primary flaws jump out at me.

 

 

1. Josephine's attraction is based on nothing.

 

I will admit, I'm not really a fan of DA2's style, and DAI's perfection, of gating any sort of romantic thoughts behind PC-initiated flirt dialogue options, as they make LIs seem like androids who have switches to flip to activate their romance modes. However, no one (whose romance I've played) has it worse than Josephine. While companion romances at least have approval to give some kind of reason as to why they like you, which could be expanded further by the PC flirting with them, this isn't strictly necessary; ME1 had both of your potential LIs bring up crushes they had on you, and ME2 has various solutions for all the LIs who don't. Kelly's interactions with Shepard enters a state of mutual flirtation very early on if you pursue that, with both of them clarifying it in the next conversation; Garrus' romance is based on a FoB agreement that turns abruptly romantic at the end, Thane appears to be just lonely and looking for companionship (I have no idea about Jacob, I admit). So, approval isn't actually needed.

 

However, Josephine's romance appears to be built to emphasize every possible flaw of both the approval-less system and the flirtation-gate system. It's true that Josephine does sometimes respond positively to your flirts (other times, completely ignoring them in a manner that seems wholly OOC for someone so socially adept), but all of this is completely obviated when Leliana tells you that Josephine is oblivious to your romantic interest, and has given minimal if any signs of feeling any herself. Once the conversation where you actually start your relationship appears, the artificiality of the entire arrangement comes to a head when Josephine's response to your just stating outright that you're romantically interested in her is, paraphrased, "You've only known me a couple of months, this makes no sense." Then, once you compliment her, she's suddenly willing to get romantic (or rather, "would not object to" doing so) without giving any indication whatsoever of why she wants to do so with you. Furthermore, Josephine never says, in the entire romance, why she actually likes you. It's definitely not because of philosophical agreement, as you can completely disregard her wishes in her personal quest by having Leliana attack the House of Repose vault, and that only gets worse when you consider...

 

 

2. The duel is horses*it.

 

Apparently, this is the scene that her animation budget was used on instead of a sex scene. I still think that you could include a sex scene for those who wanted it and skip it for those who didn't, as I'm fairly sure was done in other romances, but that's actually secondary to the main issue, which is that the big culmination of Josephine's romance is terrible in every possible way, except maybe voice acting.

 

The biggest, most egregious problem is that the duel completely disregards Josephine's wishes; Josephine is the only LI where barging into her personal life to "solve" a problem in a manner that she explicitly does not want is actually mandatory. This would be a huge black mark by itself, but it compounds on the stupidity in several ways:

-The duel is called via war table operation, with Cullen, in the same room as Josephine, meaning that it makes no sense at all that she wouldn't know about it.

-The duel is in a style that the Inquisitor is wholly unfamiliar with. There's really no logical outcome to this other than the Inquisitor looking stupid and losing Josephine.

-It relies on ridiculously convenient timing for Josephine to show up right then.

-It also relies on even more ridiculous romantic cliches for Josephine to be stunned into a romantic stupor by the Inquisitor recovering by saying "Because I love you!" Which is a terrible line itself, because one would think that actually loving her, as opposed to trying to prove some idiotic point, would entail letting her handle her bloody engagement problem in the way that she wished to.

-It completely undermines Josephine's character and themes, which are consistently based around diplomacy, intelligence, and nonviolence, by finishing off her romance with a completely moronic act of ill-considered violence that only turns out well due to dumb luck. To me, it feels like if Sera's romance culminated in the Inquisitor rescuing a Tevinter magister from his own angry slaves, or if Dorian's romance ended in a threesome with a woman.

 

 

So, there you have it. Josephine really is a good character, I just wish she'd had a romance to match.

Though I may not agree with what you have to say, I think that was a well thought out and respectfully put post.

 

...

 

*coughs*

[Qunquistador]

Thats kind of a weird question. Are we willing to date someone without a clue as to why they like or are attracted to us? The other romances do point out why the companion is interested in the inquisitor. It doesn't have to be a direct question and answer but it should be addressed in a romance arc.

Obviously, I would disagree. I would also disagree that it wasn't addressed. 

 

Also, I have a pretty positive opinion of myself and feel like I bring a lot to the table, so no I wouldn't question why someone's attracted to me.

(mind you, I'm not even some tall, heroic figure running a powerful organization with major military/political connections)

 

The fact that Josephine consistently downplays the Inquisitor's flattery and gestures, even after they get together, tells me she's the one who doesn't understand why the Inquisitor is attracted to her. She's even shocked when she finds out the quiz is in love with her. I think that speaks to how she views herself.