14 réponses à ce sujet

[earthboyjak]

Malika's Guard seems like a great new accessory for archer rogues, as is trades several bonuses (that I won't spoil) for a -50% flanking damage bonus. Considering flanking damage isn't very helpful for archers it wouldn't seem to matter much, though I'm curious to know if when it says Varric's flanking damage bonus is -25% he actually suffers a PENALTY when flanking. The overall bonuses are still worth it, I think, but I'd like to know if I should consider his positioning more carefully to avoid doing less damage to an enemy's back (and sides? I don't even know).

[BansheeOwnage]

Malika's Guard seems like a great new accessory for archer rogues, as is trades several bonuses (that I won't spoil) for a -50% flanking damage bonus. Considering flanking damage isn't very helpful for archers it wouldn't seem to matter much, though I'm curious to know if when it says Varric's flanking damage bonus is -25% he actually suffers a PENALTY when flanking. The overall bonuses are still worth it, I think, but I'd like to know if I should consider his positioning more carefully to avoid doing less damage to an enemy's back (and sides? I don't even know).

At one point I thought I read that only melee attacks receive bonuses for flanking, but I can't confirm that. I really hope that's not true. I suppose you could try to look at the numbers and see if he does less damage.

[earthboyjak]

It's weird, even after a year there's not a ton of info about flanking aside from where it falls in the damage equation. There's not even a wiki article about it for Inquisition, just for Origins. The consensus seems to be that flanking is possible with any weapon type, melee or ranged, but in combat it's hard to tell whether or not I'm seeing reduced damage from this item in that position. Like I said, I don't even know if flanking damage is only added from directly behind an enemy or if the side counts. This thing provides a fairly substantial bonus to both offense and defense that -25% damage wouldn't even totally negate, but it would be good to know.

[PapaCharlie9]

At one point I thought I read that only melee attacks receive bonuses for flanking, but I can't confirm that. I really hope that's not true. I suppose you could try to look at the numbers and see if he does less damage.

I used to think that too, but apparently that is not true. All attacks, including magic, can get a flanking bonus. It's not that hard to test, so go ahead and convince yourself.

 

A negative bonus (i.e., a debuff) should be exactly what happens. Unless they do something funny in the code to prevent subtraction, a debuff should do exactly what you expect, reduce damage below the expected value if you didn't have the debuff.

 

That said, the code very likely prevents negative damage, that is, the target should not gain health if your flanking damage debuff is too high. It should just do 0 or 1 damage.

[Bigdawg13]

It's weird, even after a year there's not a ton of info about flanking aside from where it falls in the damage equation. There's not even a wiki article about it for Inquisition, just for Origins. The consensus seems to be that flanking is possible with any weapon type, melee or ranged, but in combat it's hard to tell whether or not I'm seeing reduced damage from this item in that position. Like I said, I don't even know if flanking damage is only added from directly behind an enemy or if the side counts. This thing provides a fairly substantial bonus to both offense and defense that -25% damage wouldn't even totally negate, but it would be good to know.

http://forum.bioware...-and-mechanics/

[PapaCharlie9]

http://forum.bioware...-and-mechanics/

The other GUIDE has the more definitive statement about Flanking:

 

 

Flanking

• Base flanking bonus = 25%.
• To qualify as a flanking attack, the attacker must be positioned in an 180-degree arc behind the defender. In other words, if the defender is facing 12 o'clock, the attacker must be located between 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock.
• All attacks except damage over time ticks can benefit from flanking.
• If the attacker is more than 3 meters from the defender, the attacker suffers a flat 25% penalty to flanking bonus (whether the attack is melee or ranged is irrelevant for this check).

 

http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/

[earthboyjak]

The other GUIDE has the more definitive statement about Flanking:



Flanking

• Base flanking bonus = 25%.
• To qualify as a flanking attack, the attacker must be positioned in an 180-degree arc behind the defender. In other words, if the defender is facing 12 o'clock, the attacker must be located between 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock.
• All attacks except damage over time ticks can benefit from flanking.
• If the attacker is more than 3 meters from the defender, the attacker suffers a flat 25% penalty to flanking bonus (whether the attack is melee or ranged is irrelevant for this check).

http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/

This is very helpful, but it still doesn't answer my primary question, which is whether or not a negative flanking damage bonus actually reduces weapon damage or bottoms out at zero. Just because it says -25% on a characters stat sheet doesn't necessarily convince me it works that way. If a -25% penalty is applied for characters at a range of over 3 meters, this would be a total of -50% before armor is subtracted when an archer is flanking, which seems like a ridiculous penalty for something that normally provides a bonus. I'll have to really pay attention later and try to see if there's a difference for a flanking varric or sera.

[Bigdawg13]

True, but your earlier statement was blatantly false.  You said:

 

 

 

It's weird, even after a year there's not a ton of info about flanking aside from where it falls in the damage equation.

 

Which is completely false. We know exactly where it falls in the damage equation.  But because it fails to answer this small nuance that has been generated by recent patch and DLC, apparently we are just shy of a "ton" of information.

 

final_damage = (base_damage * rand(0.95 to 1.05) - armor * (1 - armor_penetration))
* (ability_multiplier)
* (1 + critical_damage_bonus + flanking_bonus)
* (1 + attack_bonus + damage_multiplier + type_bonus)
* (1 - magic_resistance)

[earthboyjak]

True, but your earlier statement was blatantly false. You said:




Which is completely false. We know exactly where it falls in the damage equation. But because it fails to answer this small nuance that has been generated by recent patch and DLC, apparently we are just shy of a "ton" of information.

final_damage = (base_damage * rand(0.95 to 1.05) - armor * (1 - armor_penetration))
* (ability_multiplier)
* (1 + critical_damage_bonus + flanking_bonus)
* (1 + attack_bonus + damage_multiplier + type_bonus)
* (1 - magic_resistance)

Well thankfully you came along and got all hostile about it. Nobody would have learned anything if someone hadn't had the balls to point out that I was "blatantly false". For the record, being right wasn't the reason I started this thread. But I did learn something, so thank you all for helping me out.

[Bigdawg13]

That was hostile? I was clarifying. Hmm so I just won't provide any help at all I guess. I wouldn't want to have my responses questioned and then forced to clarify.

Perhaps I found your post about a whole year has gone by but no information about flanking with damage equation to be ignorant and disrespectful. After all you must have searched for posts about game mechanics in depth right???

[actionhero112]

I dunno, I did some testing on the snofleurs with Cole's auto attacks, and I couldn't see a noticeable difference between attacks made while flanking with and attacks made from the front.

 

Malika's guard was on and his attributes page showed -25%

[ottffsse]

Flanking radius is a bit forgiving. You do not have to be behind enemy. Attacks on the side also count as flanking. Base flanking bonus is 25‰. It increases with certain items and abilities like twin fangs. With tf it is very noticeable.

[Shevy]

I did some testing with my archer rogue with Malika's Guard and I don't think -25% is applied to your damage. Blackwall tanked an enemy without enemy-influencing gear or talents and I shot on it without spend talent points to eliminate some variables. Since I was more than three meters away the base flanking bonus of 25% should've been at 0 and thus with Malika's on -50%. As far as I can tell by the numbers appearing damage from the front and from the back was comparable. But reading out damage in DA:I is a pain because of the lack of a combat log and in-detail look into what's going on.

 

So, Malika's is definitely an awesome necklace for archers. For DW I wouldn't recommend it because you lose your 25% flanking.

[tongz]

Malika's Guard + the 200% flanking bonus -50% attack sigil seems like a good combo for a DW rogue.

 

You end up with cumulative bonuses (including stats from Malika's Guard) of -25% attack and +150% flanking bonus, as well as the 30% pre armor damage reduction.

[Shevy]

I'm using the Deepstalker Sigil on my DW rogue alone because I'm mostly in flanking range when controlling her personally. But your suggestion is definitely good for AI-controlled DW's.