227 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

Many epilogue slides show Quizzy's arm being cut below the elbow.

 

We also don't know yet what can be achieved, especially with magic around. I think with some runes and enchantements, some prosthetics may actually have a limited capacity to move, as long as they learn to activate enchantments or "move" the magic.

I thought it was cut above the elbow  Am I just seeing it wrong? We don't get to see the "naked" arm, as it were.

 

 

I still wonder if we can even be an effective mage without the limb, but maybe that's the point force us to become a rogue or warrior, which is something I do not want to do, because being a competent mage is too powerful in Tevinter. Losing the ability to wield and control his magic effectively would be far more devastating to my Inquisitor than the loss of the mark itself.

My best guess is that we also can't use a staff (all the in-game ones require two hands to wield effectively) as a power booster anymore and have to learn to cast all our spells all over again (hello level 1) without or with different somatic components, in addition to finding a new way to make basic, magical attacks without the staff. Maybe a Harry Potter-esque wand is possible, but boy would it look silly. You'd also have to constantly drop or holster the thing to open doors and chests or pick up items. Though not having cool combat animations for the mage class would seem to be another point against Bioware letting a returning inquisitor remain a mage.

I'll just repost what myself and someone else have written in another thread in response to you already:

 

I get the sense that staves are like training wheels for mages, and the really powerful ones who are true masters of magic don't need or use them. If you can wrap your head around the immaterial and practice warping reality with thought, you don't need to flail your arms around or use a staff. I would bet that to Solas, this is just more evidence of how disconnected even mages are from magic now, and how they're all novices compared to anyone from ancient times.

 

Edit: Also Saarebas.

 

I agree that part of it is to "look cool", but I also think it would be completely natural for mages to move around and use different "animations" to cast spells, just like we use a lot of body language in conversation. It goes with my thought above, that performing these movements helps novice mages direct their thoughts outward, and the most magically adept like Solas, Flemeth, or Corypheus no longer require staves and use a lot less body-motion and more thought. Though even the likes of Solas still does it to some extent - I'm sure he doesn't actually need to blink to petrify someone, but it's sort of intuitive.

 

It's very likely that the next game will be about saving the world again, unless Solas hides the whole time, which I think would be incredibly lame and make the story they're setting up lose its momentum. But I definitely hope they can make the world-saving story as personal as possible, and a good start would be having the Inquisitor be the one to confront Solas.

 

I meant that the logic at work is dependent on making assumptions and construing them as canonical truth. For example:

 

A mage Inquisitor's ability to weave magic is reduced to near-uselessness 'cuz "somatic components"? We've decided that this is a thing because of casting animations? We'll say this even after Solas petrifies a Qunari while standing completely still in the DLC? Furthermore, an inability to use a staff will leave a mage completely neutered? Saarebas don't use staves. Staves don't even require the use of both hands, if we're taking note of combat animations. Hell, we're using Dragon Age: Origins as an example of a staff's importance in its added spellpower, yet in that game it is literally never wielded with both hands, not for regular attacks and not even for spellcasting.

 

In addition, we're arguing that a smaller, streamlined staff constructed to be easily used in one hand is somehow more clumsy and cumbersome than a full-length staff. There is absolutely no logic or consistent reasoning in any of these arguments. Obviously there is an agenda here: the Inquisitor must be useless, and instead of arriving at this point by citing the mechanics of magic as provided in the lore, OP is simply starting at this conclusion and cherry-picking certain aspects in the lore (whether they really exist or not) and using them to reinforce said agenda.

[Domiel Angelus]

So the only times something remotely like a prosthetic arm has occurred involved entombing a living creature in a lyrium prison and transforming them entirely (Golems and Sha-Brytol)

There's no straight line between that and a functional prosthetic.

 

We've got a few other times where we've got prosthetic parts showing up in DA:I's treading of the Thedas history books. Quite a few of Iron Bull's concept art images have him with a prosthetic arm as well as the missing eye. Also if you check the room with the astrarium and the veil-measuring device in Trespasser, there's a prosthetic arm floating around in that pile of mess as well. 

[Domiel Angelus]

I thought it was cut above the elbow  Am I just seeing it wrong? We don't get to see the "naked" arm, as it were.

 

I'll just repost what myself and someone else have written in another thread in response to you already:

 

Based on where the cuff of his jacket goes for mine the stump is in line with where his elbow is when you do a line across, so it appears to be below the elbow. You are correct however that we haven't seen the 'naked' arm. The crossbow attachment appears to be placed on the elbow space as well, its too far down to be attached at the upper arm. 

[midnight tea]

I thought it was cut above the elbow  Am I just seeing it wrong? We don't get to see the "naked" arm, as it were.

 

We get to see lot of epilogue cards where they're consistently shown to have their sleeve being folded and fastened below the elbow (with the game model trying to mimic that a bit clumsily). The fabric is thin enough that we see where the actual stump ends, which is somewhere in the middle of arm section below the joint (don't remember if there's any specific anatomical name for it ).

 

[WardenWade]

We say this at the end of every game, don't we?   And it's not a bad thing at all, it's nice to see how much the different PCs mean to us all.  It does seem likely that we will have a new protagonist in DA4, but as others have said we'll probably see the Inquisitor or at least hear of them in DA4.

[Finis Valorum]

We say this at the end of every game, don't we?   And it's not a bad thing at all, it's nice to see how much the different PCs mean to us all.  It does seem likely that we will have a new protagonist in DA4, but as others have said we'll probably see the Inquisitor or at least hear of them in DA4.

 

It's also vaguely possible the Inquisitor will return as the protagonist......of a new text game on the keep, like the last court, in the run-up to DA4, where they actually contact said new allies and try to set the stage.......of course the best laid plans always go awry, but it would allow Bioware to tie up the last few loose ends with regards to them, as well as hopefully clarify what prosthetics we can or cannot get and how much we're actually still able to do with them. Though I sincerely hope it's not going to be a disappointment where options are limited to crossbow or none.

[WardenWade]

It's also vaguely possible the Inquisitor will return as the protagonist......of a new text game on the keep, like the last court, in the run-up to DA4, where they actually contact said new allies and try to set the stage.......of course the best laid plans always go awry, but it would allow Bioware to tie up the last few loose ends with regards to them, as well as hopefully clarify what prosthetics we can or cannot get and how much we're actually still able to do with them. Though I sincerely hope it's not going to be a disappointment where options are limited to crossbow or none.

That's a good point, and it would be a fun way to help set the stage for DA4 in a lot of ways.  A really interesting possibility if we could do something like that

[Qunquistador]

Considering that Inquisitor till now wielded unique, divine power it's no wonder they were knocked down a peg. And actually, quite a few people are excited with the prospect of possible disabled protagonist with some sort of cool, class-dependent and upgradable artificial/magical arm.

 

Agreed, it's pretty insulting to say that losing an arm makes the Inquisitor a s*** candidate for doing anything physical. Think about all those people who have disabilities and how it must feel to never have anyone who has any physical impediment as hero in a game. I would hope Bioware didn't think chopping off the quiz's arm and rendering them 'disabled' was akin to death in terms of their ability to carry on being a protag.

 

I would have loved it if the Inquisitor could have retired and lived happily ever after never to be seen in the DA universe again, but the ending left crap open, unfortunately, and I'm really not that interested in the next DA4 game if the Inquisitor isn't spearheading the movement to settle the score.

 

Being able to play at least half of the game as an operative and the other half as your Inquisitor with a new class of prosthetic based skills would be sick and could actually make for some very interesting character development. 

[BansheeOwnage]

Based on where the cuff of his jacket goes for mine the stump is in line with where his elbow is when you do a line across, so it appears to be below the elbow. You are correct however that we haven't seen the 'naked' arm. The crossbow attachment appears to be placed on the elbow space as well, its too far down to be attached at the upper arm. 

We get to see lot of epilogue cards where they're consistently shown to have their sleeve being folded and fastened below the elbow (with the game model trying to mimic that a bit clumsily). The fabric is thin enough that we see where the actual stump ends, which is somewhere in the middle of arm section below the joint (don't remember if there's any specific anatomical name for it ).

 

Thanks, people. The end of Trespasser was a bit of a blur for me, so I didn't remember it too well.

 

It's also vaguely possible the Inquisitor will return as the protagonist......of a new text game on the keep, like the last court, in the run-up to DA4, where they actually contact said new allies and try to set the stage.......of course the best laid plans always go awry, but it would allow Bioware to tie up the last few loose ends with regards to them, as well as hopefully clarify what prosthetics we can or cannot get and how much we're actually still able to do with them. Though I sincerely hope it's not going to be a disappointment where options are limited to crossbow or none.

I wouldn't worry about that. If we do get to play as them, I'm sure there we'll either get a prosthetic that acts as a hand, negating the need for weapon attachments, many different weapon/utility attachments, or the option of either, preferably. The crossbow was just an idea they had at the time, not the end-all-be-all of possibilities.

[fizzypop]

I think this is a really good point.  Sometimes, stories need to get changed because of practical limitations for production.  I just don't see how they are going to be able to include the Inquisitor and a new PC, when that means that there would have to be a minimum of 6 VAs for just two characters (not to mention extra animations to account for 4 potential Inquisitor races).  That's a real limitation to deal with.  Combine that with the fact that they've stated numerous times that returning PCs aren't likely to be a thing in DA, the backlash they faced with Hawke potentially being completely out of character, and the fact that they specifically mentioned that they need unknown forces to confront Solas in Tevinter and it all seems to set up a story where the Inquisitor is pulling the strings remotely, but acting through an agent (Harding?) in Tevinter.  Maybe a cameo appearance or two, but nothing major.  I can understand why people want the Inquisitor (particularly a Dalish Inquisitor romancing Solas) to be the one to confront him, but we don't even know if the next PC is going to confront him.  For all we know, we're dealing with a specific threat in Tevinter (elven slave uprising?) with Solas pulling the strings remotely and the 'big bad' being an agent of Fen'harel (like Samson/Calpernia style).  I think there are too many variables to know for sure, but I think it's looking very unlikely that the Inquisitor will be back as PC.   And, frankly, that makes me happy.

This is actually the reason I really wish we would go back to unvoiced characters (I mean everyone). Mainly because I think they often leave out things that would be AMAZING because of voice acting. Hawke coming back in tow with their partner? Warden coming back to help the quizzy? Alistair getting more than one scene as king? Would have been doable if they didn't have to worry about voice actors. The flexibility of the written word is just better than the voice acting. I know I'm in the minority though.

[Aren]

There is 0 chance the Inquisitor is the protagonist. Aside from the Inquisition being dismantled or co-opted, the ending literally cripples the character. The last dialogue - about finding people the Dread Wolf doesn't know - is just really on the nose about new protagonists.

SO the next protagonist will be found from the Inquisition? I hope not i don't want the Inquisitor to be a sort of new Duncan

[Blooddrunk1004]

Agreed, it's pretty insulting to say that losing an arm makes the Inquisitor a s*** candidate for doing anything physical. Think about all those people who have disabilities and how it must feel to never have anyone who has any physical impediment as hero in a game. I would hope Bioware didn't think chopping off the quiz's arm and rendering them 'disabled' was akin to death in terms of their ability to carry on being a protag.

Couldn't agree more. Look at Anakin and Luke, they both lost their hands and they became even stronger fighters after that. If they can, i don't see why Inquisitor couldn't.

[9TailsFox]

On a slightly different note, has there been an official announcement from Bioware stating if they had started working on DA4?

"DA:4" is not greenlighted from EA. Bioware don't even have something to show for EA to be allowed make game, so no.

[AllThatJazz]

"DA:4" is not greenlighted from EA. Bioware don't even have something to show for EA to be allowed make game, so no.

Though recent twitter exchanges between Mike Laidlaw, Patrick Weekes and John Epler indicated they were working on something - possibly a vertical slice? Regardless, I doubt we'll be hearing anything but ambiguous tweets (if that) for quite a while.

[Smudjygirl]

Though recent twitter exchanges between Mike Laidlaw, Patrick Weekes and John Epler indicated they were working on something - possibly a vertical slice? Regardless, I doubt we'll be hearing anything but ambiguous tweets (if that) for quite a while.

 

They're probably working on it, but they need to have it pretty much sorted out before they can do anything with it.

But the must also have other projects underway

[AllThatJazz]

They're probably working on it, but they need to have it pretty much sorted out before they can do anything with it.

But the must also have other projects underway

Mike Laidlaw and Patrick Weekes are exclusively Dragon Age, not sure about John Epler. At the moment, I think PW is almost the only writer on DA, most of the former DA folks have moved to the super secret new IP But yeah, they're nowhere near ready to talk about it obviously, and probably haven't finished making whatever they want to pitch to EA. Which is why now is the time to talk about what we'd like to see (dual/secondary protag and awesome prosthetic arm for instance!     )

[Smudjygirl]

Mike Laidlaw and Patrick Weekes are exclusively Dragon Age, not sure about John Epler. At the moment, I think PW is almost the only writer on DA, most of the former DA folks have moved to the super secret new IP But yeah, they're nowhere near ready to talk about it obviously, and probably haven't finished making whatever they want to pitch to EA. Which is why now is the time to talk about what we'd like to see (dual/secondary protag and awesome prosthetic arm for instance!     )

I knew about those two, but i guess i was thinking about other members of the teams.

 

I'm not really fond of the duel protag idea. Would you tell me how you see it working? I'd like to understand it.

[AllThatJazz]

I knew about those two, but i guess i was thinking about other members of the teams.

 

I'm not really fond of the duel protag idea. Would you tell me how you see it working? I'd like to understandit.

I guess I see it as similar to how they did the Ciri segments in Witcher 3, if you've played that game, but with the Inquisitor getting more screentime than Ciri.

 

We have a new protagonist, who we spend the majority of the game as, doing all the things that a new protag usually does (gathering companions, levelling up,  doing sidequests, exploring, romancing etc) dealing with one part of the main narrative (say the tension between Tevinter and Par Vollen, and a possible slave uprising in Tevinter or whatever). They are probably an operative for the Inquisition.

 

However, for part of each chapter we switch to our Inquisitor (either at set points or on the fly) - who has a much more narrative focused, personal story going on - finding out exactly what Solas's plan is, when he's going to be doing it and where and how, and tracking him down to confront him and stop/save him.  The Inquisitor could be travelling alone (with occasional cutscenes with their old friends/ LIs as NPCs) or with a very small roster of companions.

 

Occasionally, the stories would converge - with our two protags meeting for a debrief, or the Inquisitor ordering the operative to follow a particular lead (or something) and to kick off the next chapter - before diverging again. At the very end of the game, both protags can be in the same party for the final confrontation (or not, that bit really isn't necessary). The two campaigns overlap thematically in places, while still being their own storylines. 

 

I'd see the total campaign as being about the same length as DAI, with our new protag being at the wheel for maybe 2/3 or 3/4 (so say 75 hours out of 100) of it, while the Inquisitor's story is shorter (maybe 25 hours long), but denser in terms of narrative, cinematics/cut scenes, is more linear in one way (not as open and exploratory) but has more C&C (the save/stop Solas paths for instance could have some quite different content). So the Inquisitor would be more a secondary (and separate) protagonist than an out-and-out dual one - it isn't as though the two characters would spend much time together.

 

The way I see it, it would satisfy those who want each DA game to be about a new character (and remain true to the idea of DA being about Thedas rather than one individual - something I don't see as necessary but some do, so fair enough I suppose), while also allowing us to control the Inquisitor to wrap up the Solas plotline (which I think is very important) - and playing them for long enough to actually see it as a viable plotline, rather than something that's just been tacked on. To be honest, the playable Ciri segments in W3 weren't long enough for me. They didn't give me an opportunity to get to know Ciri really well, and those bits of the story that involved her could just as easily have been done via cutscenes. I'd want longer for the Inquisitor.

 

It could also work to satisfy those who are more into the exploration stuff (new protag gets to do all that), while the much more linear and cinematic Inquisitor storyline should appeal to people wanting an experience that's deep rather than broad. I like both approaches, so I'd be doubly happy

 

Edit: Honestly, if Bioware was to announce that we'd just be playing our Quiz again in DA4, I would be thrilled. I adore my Lavellan and can't get enough of her. However, I also know that there are plenty who prefer the new protag for every game approach, so I suppose I'm trying to think of a way to accommodate both

[Smudjygirl]

--

 

I see. I can envision it a bit more now, thank you.

 

I must confess that while i wouldn't mind that, it's probably not my favourite thing to do. Sometimes games that do that, if not done well, can break the immersion to the story (not saying it would, because i happen to think the DA team do most things pretty well)

 

The biggest problem i see with that is it is like having 2 different stories going on at the same time. NewPC doing one thing (Qunari x Tevinter stuff, most likely) while the Inquisitor is around just to deal with Solas. That may get a little overly complicated and may not be easy to pull off one way or the other. I'm researching game design right now (since i want to work in the game industry) and having two narratives going on at the same time, while only bringing them together occasionally, may not work. They will probably subtly hint that there is one cause to all the chaos, but they would need to keep it to a minimum. (On another note, it will feel so weird to have my Inquisitors tell NewPC about stuff i already knew...that bugs me somewhat)

 

As well as that, there is the technical side. People will probably want a couple of voices for new PC so that will be at least 8 voices for the player characters alone. They may have to sacrifice some stuff to do that.

 

I think it's going to end up as a case of "you can't please everybody"

[AllThatJazz]

I see. I can envision it a bit more now, thank you.

 

I must confess that while i wouldn't mind that, it's probably not my favourite thing to do. Sometimes games that do that, if not done well, can break the immersion to the story (not saying it would, because i happen to think the DA team do most things pretty well)

 

The biggest problem i see with that is it is like having 2 different stories going on at the same time. NewPC doing one thing (Qunari x Tevinter stuff, most likely) while the Inquisitor is around just to deal with Solas. That may get a little overly complicated and may not be easy to pull off one way or the other. I'm researching game design right now (since i want to work in the game industry) and having two narratives going on at the same time, while only bringing them together occasionally, may not work. They will probably subtly hint that there is one cause to all the chaos, but they would need to keep it to a minimum. (On another note, it will feel so weird to have my Inquisitors tell NewPC about stuff i already knew...that bugs me somewhat)

 

As well as that, there is the technical side. People will probably want a couple of voices for new PC so that will be at least 8 voices for the player characters alone. They may have to sacrifice some stuff to do that.

 

I think it's going to end up as a case of "you can't please everybody"

This is true, it could end up being overly complicated, though I do trust Patrick Weekes to tell a fantastic tale in a way that people can understand it. I suppose I'd see the undercurrent to the story being the same (eg, the suspicion is that the Dread Wolf is ultimately behind whatever's going on in Tevinter, it's up to the operative to undermine his plans there while the Inquisitor hunts him down). And I guess I'd see the debrief as a sort of 'fade to black' so we aren't getting the same information more than once, and then onward to the aims of the next chapter.

 

VA is expensive, but I suppose I'd see total word count as roughly the same as in DAI, so same number of main VA sessions (roughly) just split between more main actors. VA is a set charge per job I believe, so obviously the hypothetical VAs for DA4 wouldn't be earning quite as much as they did for DAI, because they'd have less script.

 

Part of the problem that Bioware has now, is that TW3 seemed to 'do it all' - deep and numerous quests, tons of exploration in a wide-open world (more or less), gorgeous visuals, decent storyline that managed to be both epic and personal. It's a lot easier I think to 'do it all' when you're making games in Eastern Europe rather than Canada, because your money goes a lot further, but nonetheless, W3 is now seen as having set a new standard in CRPGs.

 

I prefer Dragon Age (by a large margin), but I can certainly see why TW3 got the accolades it did, and I fear it may be difficult for Bioware on a North American budget, to compete. One way of doing this, though, could be by segmenting their campaigns - so one that is exploration and sidequest driven (and less cinematic - cinematics are very expensive too I believe), and another (shorter one) that is story and cutscene heavy. It allows for both, while not being as painful on the wallet ideally.

 

I agree though, that it's unlikely. Sadly, I think the 'new protag' thing is far more likely (which is partly why I'm blathering on about dual protags, as a sort of compromise), and I'm concerned for the fate of my Inquisitor who gets relegated to a Hawke-style cameo

[Smudjygirl]

--

 

I never played past the first Witcher. I found Geralt to be an awful character and REALLY wanted to throw a bucket at him. (He was well written, he's just an *******) I also sound the sex cards in the 2nd to be hella offensive.

 

The big difference between the Witcher and DA is the Witcher is based off books (which i have read and really enjoyed). They have a world all set up, with great characters and a destination in mind. They have built upon an existing and compelling world. They also have the luxury if it being built around one character, and his life. DA started (and could have potentially ended) with Origins. DA is being built up game by game and so is subject to change. Things we "knew" before have been changed for "story reasons". That is, it didn't fit int with the story (like Leliana's potential fates) or they decided to blow it out of the water (here's looking at you, Solas).

 

Personally i feel they have put too much emphasis on the Inquisitor's role on Solas' story to reduce their input in it now. I was thinking about it and i would have had Cory die earlier and Solas' betrayal and plans coming into fruition in the same game. Him destroying the veil would cause utter chaos and the Qunari like to take advantage of chaos. Plus the most likely place to find something to stop him is Tevinter, since they were built on the bones of the ancient elves. If Solas' chapter is done, so is the Inquisitors. But the reverse is also true.

 

I really don't like comparing games from different makers, when the stories are 1) different and 2) are in no way connected to the writers and devs if said games.

 

As it says in my sig, if the DA series is about Thedas and only Thedas, we should be a tree. Because that argument suggests the characters don't matter at all and the world can be compelling without them. People didn't play Origins because of Ferelden, they played it because of the Hero and friends, without whom there would have been no story. Same for DA2, people played it for Hawke and co, not Kirkwall. People want the Inquisitor to continue to be the shining star in Solas' story because of their connection to him. Yes, people want to stop him from destroying Thedas, but that's because we have grown to love it through our characters, and our own interactions with the world, the people and their plight. Key message: Thedas' story is presented through it's characters, and it would be a massively wasted opportunity to abandon a compelling story between two characters because they are not made of mud.

 

Duel protag= sure, i will compromise

No, because it's about Thedas = *death stare*

 

Excuse my rant, i have nothing to do today and i love DA so i tend to obsess.

[AllThatJazz]

The sex cards were in the first game - I didn't like them either. CDPR did do better in the other two games in this respect, but to be honest I agree with you about Geralt, I don't like him either, it's a large factor in why I don't like TW games as much. I really enjoy character creation, I adore all my Bioware characters

 

And yeah, agreed on everything else. Damn, I would jump for joy if they said our Quiz and her magical arm is the protag for the next game, but at the very least, the Inquisitor has to deal with Solas - it just makes no sense starting such a huge plot point otherwise.

 

Fingers crossed, Smudjygirl!

[Smudjygirl]

The sex cards were in the first game - I didn't like them either. CDPR did do better in the other two games, but to be honest I agree with you about Geralt, I don't like him either, it's a large factor in why I don't like TW games as much. I really enjoy character creation, I adore all my Bioware characters :)4

 

And yeah, agreed on everything else. Damn, I would jump for joy if they said our Quiz and her magical arm is the protag for the next game, but at the very least, the Inquisitor has to deal with Solas - it just makes no sense starting such a huge plot point otherwise.

 

Fingers crossed, Smudjygirl!

Oh? Shows how much i remember. I tried to forget about them.

I enjoy games like that too. And i love being an elf...i've always loved fantasy stuff. Maybe it's because i'm English...we do so love our fairy stuff (evil little things that they are)

 

That it does. And if not, they had better have a better reason than "no, Inquisitor is invalid now". Honestly, i will be so upset if they let this opportunity go just because "reasons". I like to think the starting back at Haven could be a sign. Especially since Solas says "Haven is familiar, it will always be important to you"

 

I'm crossing everything that can be, Jazz. And will probably whine like the fangirl i am until we know XD

[AllThatJazz]

I'm British too (well, born and raised in Wales, but with English parents, and I live in Yorkshire) - I agree. I'm all about druids, witches, ancient magic, King Arthur etc. And Terry Pratchett. I loved his take on Elves (very alien and hostile), so it thrills me that DA elvhen have a similar darkness about them!

 

Interesting point about Haven - and I wonder if we'll ever see Skyhold again? 

[Al Foley]

I'm British too (well, born and raised in Wales, but with English parents, and I live in Yorkshire) - I agree. I'm all about druids, witches, ancient magic, King Arthur etc. And Terry Pratchett. I loved his take on Elves (very alien and hostile), so it thrills me that DA elvhen have a similar darkness about them!

 

Interesting point about Haven - and I wonder if we'll ever see Skyhold again? 

Indeed the direction they have taken the Elves in this game is rather awesome and refreshing actually.