135 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

You're crazy if you think that.
1. No one on the elven side was trying to sue for peace. Not one and there is proof from that in JoH.
2.The emerald knights were zealots.
3. This is a woman running in the dark ageists trained fighting elves who as a race see can see in the dark via tapetum lucidum. Using the excuse of them panicking and think some one in a far distance is attacking them with a knife is as dumb as cops using it after the gun someone down 10 feet away. It called a warning shot. They need to us it.

Sorry, not no matter what you say the elves are more at fault for the fall of the dales. They abandoned, alienated, and antagonized their closest allie.

I'm not say humans or the chantry was not at fault but the elves had all the power to try to end things peacefully and only went to make things worse.

One woman among the Emerald Knights attacked the human woman who was running towards them; the Emerald Knight wasn't psychic, she didn't know the woman's intentions. As for the Emerald Knights, they were the army of the Dales, tasked with protecting the independent kingdom from incursion. Templars were crossing into the Dales at the time, and at least one elven woman was murdered by Andrastian humans prior to Red Crossing.

Also, Orlais was created by Drakon conquering his neighbors to establish an empire under the worship of the Maker, and his issues with the Dales prevented his intended conquest of the Free Marches; you're conflating the alliance between Shartan and Andraste with the Dales and Orlais.

[Ranadiel Marius]

IMO the bigger issue for the Chantry is the Elvhen painting of a black creature with many eyes and the sunburst symbol on it. A possible interpretation of which is that the sun from the Elven myths may have been a creature that was at one point or another (correctly or incorrectly) associated with the Maker.

Although with Solas controlling the mirror network now, that image may be lost for all time now.

[X Equestris]

You mean they killed a specific group of people who attacked them.

And they were attacked because they'd just murdered someone. Do what they did and see how quick you get arrested.

[LobselVith8]

And they were attacked because they'd just murdered someone. Do what they did and see how quick you get arrested.

One Emerald Knight killed one woman she thought was a threat because she was running towards them, and they were on a mission to capture or kill a defector from their ranks. The humans also killed the human woman's elven lover during this incident. There's plenty of blame for both sides in this incident.

[X Equestris]

One Emerald Knight killed one woman she thought was a threat because she was running towards them, and they were on a mission to capture or kill a defector from their ranks. The humans also killed the human woman's elven lover during this incident. There's plenty of blame for both sides in this incident.

A mission into sovereign Orlesian territory sounds rather illegal to me, even without the accidental murder.

[Donk]

Maybe it's just me but the fact that Solas created the Viel, shouldnt that blow a huge hole in chantry/andrastian lore? Not even mentioning the fact about titans and elvhen and the earth. So did this basically come out and say yup there is no maker and the old gods were actually the banished elves posing as dragons trying to be released from there prisons?

 

Just some food for thought.

I'd love to hear what you guys think.

 

I believe that the chantry lore was intentionally misinterpreted to blind people from the truth.

[Korva]

Like many real world religions, I imagine they'll adapt their doctrines as new truths emerge so that it fits better. This should be easily done with Leliana, since she's already adapting many of the Chantry teachings/rules, but Cass and Viv could do it too.

 

I'm actually a little disappointed that they didn't let Cass push for more reforms. She's a Seeker in the best sense of the word and wants the truth to be known. We see this after the personal quest, after Here Lies The Abyss, when the truth about Ameridan is revealed ... I'd expected her to reinstate Shartan as well, for example. Maybe the writers wanted to keep her more in the middle, separate from Leliana, but IMO it does do her a bit of a disservice.

[Almostfaceman]

All I ever heard on the subject from Solas was that nothing connected the Old God dragons to the elves.

 

 

Yes and I'm rather glad of this. As much as I love what they're doing with the Elves (Bioware's take on Tolkien so far) I don't want ALL the big supernatural baddies to be super-powerful-elven-mages. 

[Almostfaceman]

Don't very it's very easy to bend religion to your needs. Religion purpose is just to control slaves and keep peasant's distracted from real problems and hard life by promising happiness after they die. They just say Solas some random elf who pretending to be Fen'Harel to control elf's.

 

Not really, for many there's the whole big "where do we come from, why, and for what purpose do I exist?" question. I'm not an elven religion expert, but I don't see anything about happiness after they're dead, probably because they were immortal to begin with. Life, even fiction life, is a bit more complicated than you seem to consider. 

[Almostfaceman]

Hurts? I'd say it destroys the Dalish faith. Seeing as everything they believe is made up.

 

For some yeah, but many know they don't know and that most of what they go by at present is legend. "Illuminate" is a better word than destroy, especially for those tribes. 

[Evilpastry]

The thought i was leading towards was this. If there is a maker, Why did the acient Elvhen not worship him? with all thier knowledge and power surely they would have insight into this. I find it very curious that there is no mention of who they worshiped? because we now know they werent really gods just very powerful mages. So surely they believed in some higher power? and what/who was it?

[Kantr]

For some yeah, but many know they don't know and that most of what they go by at present is legend. "Illuminate" is a better word than destroy, especially for those tribes. 

Good point. Although really they should not worship them

[Almostfaceman]

That was mostly the fault of the elves.

 

Um, no. The history revealed so far in Inquisition paints it as fault on both sides, with a giant land-grab being the main motivation on the side of the humans. The territory connected Orlais and Ferelden, and Orlais wanted Ferelden. The elves stubborness and unwillingness to help during the 2nd Blight made the taking of the Dales that much easier. 

[Almostfaceman]

Dalish believe that all Elves once had the gift of magic. While we don't have a confirmation on whether that's true, 

 

Solas said that for the ancient elves magic was as natural as breathing (unless my memory fails me). So yes, they could all use magic. Probably to varying degrees since obviously a few rose to prominence both through reputation and skill. 

[azarhal]

I believe that the chantry lore was intentionally misinterpreted to blind people from the truth.

 

Intentionally misinterpreted? I don't think so. Most of the Chant canticles seems to be based on vision people had in dreams. The Harrasian canticle was written hundred of years after the first Blight, yet it matches part of Corypheus's own journal you can find in DAI. The Exaltation canticle, Drakon's vision that made him create the Chantry, mention the Titans, the ancient elves trapped by Solas and what appear to be the Temple of Sacred Ashes events including the breach, the Blight and it ends with the balance being returned with what seem like an allegory for removing the Veil.

 

Any misinterpretation is from people who aren't paying attention to what it says really.

[Almostfaceman]

Good point. Although really they should not worship them

 

Well no they shouldn't worship them and many didn't though they held onto the legend (probably "just in case" or for the sake of culture). I believe it's in the codex and you can even play your Dalish PC's in Origins and Inquisition with this perspective. 

[X Equestris]

The thought i was leading towards was this. If there is a maker, Why did the acient Elvhen not worship him? with all thier knowledge and power surely they would have insight into this. I find it very curious that there is no mention of who they worshiped? because we now know they werent really gods just very powerful mages. So surely they believed in some higher power? and what/who was it?

They worshipped the Evanuris as gods. That may not always have been the case, though. It's worth noting that elves believed the Creators were themselves created. Perhaps the story of conflict between Elgar'nan and the Sun is an allegory for Evanuris worship eclipsing worship of a creator deity. Or it could be based in fact.

I'm wondering if the reason they didn't worship the Maker/whatever you want to call this being is the same as the reason the Neromenians switched to the Old Gods: the lack of interaction. The Neromenians adopted Old God worship because they answered their prayers. So perhaps the Evanuris answered the elves when they asked for aid with certain things, whereas the Maker/ whatever didn't.

[Kantr]

They worshipped the Evanuris as gods. That may not always have been the case, though. It's worth noting that elves believed the Creators were themselves created. Perhaps the story of conflict between Elgar'nan and the Sun is an allegory for Evanuris worship eclipsing worship of a creator deity. Or it could be based in fact.

I'm wondering if the reason they didn't worship the Maker/whatever you want to call this being is the same as the reason the Neromenians switched to the Old Gods: the lack of interaction. The Neromenians adopted Old God worship because they answered their prayers. So perhaps the Evanuris answered the elves when they asked for aid with certain things, whereas the Maker/ whatever didn't.

Well the Evanuris were Generals as Solas said, then Kings and finally Gods. So they must have had a lot of power to impress the elves with

[Evilpastry]

Well the Evanuris were Generals as Solas said, then Kings and finally Gods. So they must have had a lot of power to impress the elves with

correct and all elves had the gift of magic to a degree, but before they became gods i wonder who they worshipped? i have a feeling everything will come full circle though, even though we may never get the whole story

[ElementalFury106]

Solas said that for the ancient elves magic was as natural as breathing (unless my memory fails me). So yes, they could all use magic. Probably to varying degrees since obviously a few rose to prominence both through reputation and skill. 

 

This is true, I've included an edit to the original post.

[LobselVith8]

A mission into sovereign Orlesian territory sounds rather illegal to me, even without the accidental murder.

The templars entered the Dales illegally a myriad of times.

[Qun00]

The Creators were real; the Forgotten Ones were real; Fen'Harel is real. There was a war. The Creators were sealed away by Fen'Harel. Arlathan existed. Ancient elves were immortal.

Yeah, I'm not seeing how they were wrong about everything.

It's not like the Dalish thought the Creators were sunshine and rainbows; about the war between the Creators and the Forgotten Ones, Merill points out that the Dalish don't know which side was in the right or which side struck first in the war.

They still believe the elven gods are protectors of the People, when in truth they were selfish tyrants.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I hope Andraste is confirmed blood mage in DA4. The Chantry religion needs to be punched in the balls next.

[X Equestris]

I hope Andraste is confirmed blood mage in DA4. The Chantry religion needs to be punched in the balls next.

Probably not a blood mage, but I wouldn't be too surprised if it was revealed she was a Dreamer or something along those lines.

The templars entered the Dales illegally a myriad of times.

As I recall, they were to protect missionaries. There's a difference between doing that (which was rather open) and a cloak and dagger mission to capture someone believed to be defecting.

[LobselVith8]

As I recall, they were to protect missionaries. There's a difference between doing that (which was rather open) and a cloak and dagger mission to capture someone believed to be defecting.

The templars were sent there because the elves wouldn't convert. There's a difference between trying to capture or kill a defector you think will compromise state secrets, and sending armed and armored soldiers because people refuse to convert to your religion.