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[Korva]

Ya, I'm starting to think that the writers want some of that divine guidance to play a role in the faith or something. They could have kept the Deistic approach from Origins and just said that Andraste (and maybe other Anointed?) intervenes on behalf of mortals but still obeys the Maker's will. So, "Andraste's Herald" makes sense if it is more about Andraste aiding in place of the Maker, but when the Inquisitor says "I am the Maker's Chosen" or the Orlesians talk about praying to the Maker for help in the civil war, I get confused. What do these Andrastians believe?

 

It's bafflng, yes. All they would have needed to do is introduce a disputed but popular Canticle or two that allow for a more theistic interpretation of the faith, especially regarding Andraste as the one to intervene for the mortals from whose ranks she came. Bam, more potential for intra-Chantry disputes, a less monolithic faith, and a foundation for both interventionist and non-interventionist characters and story arcs. Dorothea/Justinia could have been a more theistic-leaning cleric, and that would help explain the current upswing in popularity of that interpretation of the faith, as well as Leliana who took hopeful verses as the balm she needed and ran off the rails with them in her love-and-acceptance-for-all attitude (when she's not knifing people).

[MisterJB]

Personally, I feel it makes the elves the most pitiful of creatures.
When humans were enslaved by mages, the fought back, removed the shackles and have taken steps to prevent it from happening again.
Elves tough? They places mages above themselves and paint slave markings on their faces, yearning for their masters to return.
The ones who don't are still the meanest of creatures in human cities.
There truly is no hope for the elves.

[In Exile]

I never said the elves were blameless. I'm also not going to condemn the Dales for defending themselves when Orlais declared war on the kingdom and their armies marched into elven territory.

What? There's no proof Orlais invaded the Dales proper. All of the records we see show us: (1) a Dalish military unit went rogue and violated the sovereign borders of Orlais to dispense some extrajuducial justice; (2) the Dalish unit, on coming into contact with a bunch of human peasants, ended up massacring the whole town; (3) a war with Orlais followed, where for the first few years the elves crushed the Orlesian army, burned their cities and almost certainly raped and killed their citizens.

Where in this fantasy are the Dales victims? We know from the last Inquisitor - Ameridan - that while there were previous tensions between the Dales and Orlais before the second Blight, that's as far as it got.

IRL, if a Russian special military unit goes AWOL and massacres an Alaskan town, that's casus belli for the US. The only reason we wouldn't end up in a a shooting war right away is the international diplomatic community.

[In Exile]

To those saying the Dalish faith has completely been destroyed, that's not completely accurate and true.

The Elven Gods did, in fact, exist. If anything, Solas' confirmation of this is more than Chantry/Andrastism has on whether or not the Maker exists.

Now, if we're discussing whether or not they were actually Gods is a different story. But fact is, they exist, so the Dalish were not wrong in their acknowledgement of them.

Dalish also believe that all Elves used to be immortal, and Solas confirmed that is indeed correct. Another aspect of Dalish faith that has not been wrong.

Dalish believe that all Elves once had the gift of magic. While we don't have a confirmation on whether that's true, we do know that all Elves had a natural connection to the Fade as it was once part of the world of Thedas and not just a dream world. This is what their legends probably imply. So while the Dalish were inaccurate here, they were not completely incorrect.

EDIT: It's come to my attention that we do in fact have a confirmation on this point ^ so yet ANOTHER thing the Dalish were right about.

So from an objective standpoint, the Dalish faith has not been completely destroyed. Some of their legends were accurate, and some were proved to be inaccurate.

There's an important difference between confirming their narrative and obliterating their belief. If IRL Jesus existed but we discovered incontrovertible proof he was not a divine being, that would be a bad day for Christianity.

We found out that the Elven "gods" weren't gods at all. There was nothing special about then beyond their magical and authoritarian power.

We learned that the insane and racist Dalish theory about their immortality has no connection with reality.

We already learned Tevinter was a backwater that didn't topple the Elves.

We know their stories about their "gods" are just metaphors for true historical accounts about tyrants.

While the Dalish end up being amazingly - stunningly - accurate about a lot, their faith still gets disproven.

[In Exile]

A mission into sovereign Orlesian territory sounds rather illegal to me, even without the accidental murder.

An elite military unit conducting an incursion into sovereign territory? That's an act of war all on it own, without the incidental massacre. Good luck convincing anyone this isn't just a full on military raid with "the unwashes peasants threatened our elite troops" being an excuse that gets you laughed out.

The Dales didn't start the war per se - the Emerald Knights did, and they all should have been executed for treason. But with tensions being what they were, it's hard to see how the Dales could appease Orlais.

The Orlesians were fully justified to declare war. But there's no proof they did. The hypothesis they did doesn't make sense, because in the first years of the war, Orlais loses. For them to be the aggressor they'd have to try and invade the Dales, get immediately crushed, the Dalish - our hypothetical victims - would them have to for (reasons undisclosed) decide that their war of self defence requires burning Montsimmard and trying to sack Val Royeaux...

It makes no sense based on the narrative we have that Orlais was the aggressor, as much as there's no proof the Dales themselves precipitated the tension that led TO the war.

[In Exile]

If the actual reasoning for invading was justified why provide a presecutory religious excuse after?

Because Orlais didn't just win a war against the Dales - they obliterated their culture and enslaved (effectively) the population. That requires a lot of propaganda to sell.

[In Exile]

Personally, I feel it makes the elves the most pitiful of creatures.
When humans were enslaved by mages, the fought back, removed the shackles and have taken steps to prevent it from happening again.
Elves tough? They places mages above themselves and paint slave markings onde their faces, yearning for their masters to return.
The ones who don't are still the meanest of creatures in human cities.
There truly is no hope for the elves.

We did have a slave rebellion. That's what the "Dread Wolf" seems to have led. He just found a more permanent solution - his Veil.

[leaguer of one]

Personally, I feel it makes the elves the most pitiful of creatures.
When humans were enslaved by mages, the fought back, removed the shackles and have taken steps to prevent it from happening again.
Elves tough? They places mages above themselves and paint slave markings onde their faces, yearning for their masters to return.
The ones who don't are still the meanest of creatures in human cities.
There truly is no hope for the elves.

1. Humans had help from the blight.

2.Humans also were not enslaved with  geas'.

[leaguer of one]

Because Orlais didn't just win a war against the Dales - they obliterated their culture and enslaved (effectively) the population. That requires a lot of propaganda to sell.

The same population who almost did the same to them and refused any peace talk that would make sure it would of never gone that far who also refuse to do any delegation that could undo all the conflict before it started?

[Aren]

Whoa, whoa, who said the Old Gods are banished elven god-kings?

Well there are these things of the forgotten ones lore of the elven pantheon,and the fact that Mythal was interested in one of them. 

 The fact that they possess a draconic form but that they aren't dragons (like Mythal)

 (shapeshifter maybe).

The fact that one of them answered to  Mythal calling and granted to her his soul willingly.

So they maybe are ancient elven rulers,just that have nothing to do with Mythal murderer

[LobselVith8]

What? There's no proof Orlais invaded the Dales proper. All of the records we see show us: (1) a Dalish military unit went rogue and violated the sovereign borders of Orlais to dispense some extrajuducial justice; (2) the Dalish unit, on coming into contact with a bunch of human peasants, ended up massacring the whole town; (3) a war with Orlais followed, where for the first few years the elves crushed the Orlesian army, burned their cities and almost certainly raped and killed their citizens.

Military units have crossed into sovereign territory before to capture fugitives without "going rogue"; the target was a defector from their own ranks who they thought may leak national secrets.

Also, killing a small group that tried to kill them (after the death of one human, followed by the group killing the human's elven lover) isn't comparable to massacring an entire town.

Furthermore, using the deaths of a small group of humans as a pretense to annex the Dales and forcibly convert the elves isn't really something I'd defend.

No one is innocent in this, but it's really silly how some are vilifying the elves while whitewashing the other side.

Where in this fantasy are the Dales victims? We know from the last Inquisitor - Ameridan - that while there were previous tensions between the Dales and Orlais before the second Blight, that's as far as it got.

The history tells us that the issues were bad enough between the Dales and Orlais to prevent Drakon's planned conquest of the Free Marches, and American was an Andrastian who supported Drakon.

IRL, if a Russian special military unit goes AWOL and massacres an Alaskan town, that's casus belli for the US. The only reason we wouldn't end up in a a shooting war right away is the international diplomatic community.

Except the Emerald Knights didn't massacre an entire town, they killed a group that had attacked them when they were trying to get on of their own. We also know that at least one elf was murdered by humans prior to the war, and according to the codex entries in the Dales - that there were templar incursions into the territory of the Dales before the war.