31 réponses à ce sujet

[htisscrimbliv]

Am i the only one who thinks we can beat him by ourselves? I mean the inquisitor is a mean sob, hawke is a monster by the end, and the warden is an invulnerable tank at the end. We've all killed dragons, fought countless enemies, and i honestly think we would curb stomp that thing if given the chance. Thoughts?

[Avejajed]

Hawke's got this.

[Mr.House]

It would just come back to life that long after you killed it. Demons and spirits can't be properly killed by default, Nightmare was spirit that predates the blight and was  then corrupted to a demon as it fed on the fear caused by all the fear associated to it. It would just keep coming back for a rematch to the point you will die of exhaustion. This is why you have to run away, all the characters understand they can not truly kill this thing and why it coming out oft he fade would be very very very dangerous.

[Big I]

Am i the only one who thinks we can beat him by ourselves? I mean the inquisitor is a mean sob, hawke is a monster by the end, and the warden is an invulnerable tank at the end. We've all killed dragons, fought countless enemies, and i honestly think we would curb stomp that thing if given the chance. Thoughts?

 

Agreed, Would have loved to have fought and killed the Nightmare.

[Arshei]

I hope they die, i don't want more "lyrium spirits" in the world.

[Lazarillo]

The only reason it survives is because it's in a cutscene.  First rule of RPGs, if you give a monster stats, the players will kill it.

 

More importantly, though, why does it even necessitate a "sacrifice" when the other three companions get away just fine?

[myahele]

Guaranteed body for The Nightmare to possess = tears

[Illyria]

The only reason it survives is because it's in a cutscene.  First rule of RPGs, if you give a monster stats, the players will kill it.

 

More importantly, though, why does it even necessitate a "sacrifice" when the other three companions get away just fine?

 

The others had already left by the time the Nightmare fully manifested.  You can actually see them leave right before.

[Arshei]

I don't know why the Inquisitor + Hawke + Stroud/Loghain/Alistair killed the demon together...

[thats1evildude]

It's the size of a mountain. You ain't gonna kill it in battle.

[Lazarillo]

The others had already left by the time the Nightmare fully manifested.  You can actually see them leave right before.

 

That's my point!  If they had time to make it out, why couldn't the other three?  Was that booger Quizzie was picking so important it couldn't wait like 10 seconds?

[themikefest]

 The three of them could've wounded the thing long enough to leave.

 

Did Hawke or Warden have to be left behind?

 

With both surviving, the Warden goes off to Weisshaupt and Hawke can go back to Kirkwall or stay at Skyhold and then show up to help fight Corypheus just like he/she helped in the fade and Adamant

[Just My Moniker]

Hawke's got this.

Hawke be like

 

[Arshei]

It's the size of a mountain. You ain't gonna kill it in battle.

 

Size of the mountain?

The warden deals with an archdemon!

 

 

Hawke deal with Isabela boobs!

 

And the inquisitor can´t defeat a simple demon?

[Mr.House]

Calling the Nightmare a simple demon, really?

[TeaLulu]

Because for some reason throughout the boss fight the freakin' Nightmare thing in a dress kept making Hawke and the Warden useless somehow and I don't think the Inquisitor could handle it by themselves?

[Arshei]

Calling the Nightmare a simple demon, really?

 

[Marshal Moriarty]

The scene is very badly scripted (as is the whole mission IMO, but that's another issue). The tired old 'Its an unbeliveably powerful and undefeatable and unstoppable and incontestably terrifying' hyperbole does absolutely nothing to disguise the lack of genuine dread or interest that the Nightmare posseses. Its just some big gribbly, and we've seen its likes billions of times before. They can apply all kinds of 'Its unstoppable!' hysterics, but that simply doesn't matter if you don't sell it. As this thread has so far shown, people simply don't believe and weren't inspired by the narrative to buy into, the idea of this thing being anything more than your standard big bad of the week, that talks a big game until the heroes stick it with swords, crack some one liners and trot off back to Skyhold.

 

The level is completely bungled from the horror angle, as nothing that happens is remotely scary, which sort of undermines the whole premise of what this thing is. And we've never even heard of this thing until around 20 minutes before we meet it. Add in that none of the party members are remotely scared when the beast tries its mess with your mind shenanigans, the lack of any personality of its own, the shortness of the mission, and the fact its sharing the mssions with the stuff about the Divine... Its just a damp squib of an enemy, that the narrative keeps insisting we should be scared of.

 

As for the sacrifice, that's just awful. All the time they spent gabbing, they could all have just have run off. And the idea that one person no matter how amazing, could slow the thing down (especially as they stand there discussing out loud that this is their plan), is similarly daft. Its some gigantic creature, and they are just 1 ordinary sized person. If the thing really cared about getting past them (after all, why would it care about getting hit if its immortal?) it could just swat the distraction aside, or trample over them. Or perhaps cast some spells - or did it forget how to do that since you were fighting it a couple of seconds ago?

 

Its atrocious execution, but given the woeful state of the whole Grey Warden questline, I was hardly surprised or disappointed. It was a fittingly terrible end to a chronically far fetched and silly questline, that at evety turn bungled its storytelling and execution. Far from agony over the choice I was forced to make, I felt euphoric ectasy that at last the mission was over and I could stop cringing at all the ridiculous elements of the questline, before my spine shattered.

[ElementalFury106]

 The three of them could've wounded the thing long enough to leave.

 

Did Hawke or Warden have to be left behind?

 

With both surviving, the Warden goes off to Weisshaupt and Hawke can go back to Kirkwall or stay at Skyhold and then show up to help fight Corypheus just like he/she helped in the fade and Adamant

 

This pretty much sums up a big critique I have of the game. I don't understand these choice A and choice B sacrifice decisions in Inquisition. It seems like getting both options would be both plausible and beneficial to the story, yet we get these dramatic "this or that" choices.

 

If it were up to me, I'd let the Inquisitor recruit both the Mages and the Templars. Now that would be a true Inquisition. It would also conclusively end the Mage-Templar conflict, as opposed to "recruit one side, the other becomes Corypheus' assest."

 

Sure, there would be conflicts between the sides, and it would be possible to completely mess up an alliance, but the option and opportunity to get both sides should be available. I'd say we need Mages and Templars alike for the Inquisition's mission.

 

As for the argument "you cannot recruit both sides because one side becomes the primary antagonist faction" I say bullsh*t. Notice that whether you side with the Mages or Templars it doesn't matter -- there will be Red Templars and Venatori Mages alike throughout the game. The only difference are the enemies you face at Haven/Arbor Wilds.

 

Just look at how they handled Here Lies The Abyss and Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts. They didn't ask you to choose between the Grey Wardens or the Orlesian Imperial Army, did they? They allowed you to recruit both. Both became part of your Inquisition (assuming you don't exile the Wardens). Both aided in the Inquisition's mission.

 

And that's what I felt Inquisition should've been in the first place. Aside from the organization that investigates problems and eradicates them, it should be the organization that rallies the failing institutions of Thedas against a common enemy. Like Andraste did against the Imperium.

 

So bringing this back on topic, I wish there'd be an option to get everyone out of the Fade alive. Sure, also include choices where you can lose either Hawke or the Warden, or even include an option where you could lose both of them. But I really dislike these "this or that//choice A or B" options.

[vertigomez]

Loghain breaks a hip and everybody dies.

[Captmorgan72]

No chance in hell. Nightmare is a god in his realm. Nothing short of the Maker can destroy him there. 

[Knight of Dane]

This pretty much sums up a big critique I have of the game. I don't understand these choice A and choice B sacrifice decisions in Inquisition. It seems like getting both options would be both plausible and beneficial to the story, yet we get these dramatic "this or that" choices.

 

If it were up to me, I'd let the Inquisitor recruit both the Mages and the Templars. Now that would be a true Inquisition. It would also conclusively end the Mage-Templar conflict, as opposed to "recruit one side, the other becomes Corypheus' assest."

 

Sure, there would be conflicts between the sides, and it would be possible to completely mess up an alliance, but the option and opportunity to get both sides should be available. I'd say we need Mages and Templars alike for the Inquisition's mission.

 

As for the argument "you cannot recruit both sides because one side becomes the primary antagonist faction" I say bullsh*t. Notice that whether you side with the Mages or Templars it doesn't matter -- there will be Red Templars and Venatori Mages alike throughout the game. The only difference are the enemies you face at Haven/Arbor Wilds.

 

Just look at how they handled Here Lies The Abyss and Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts. They didn't ask you to choose between the Grey Wardens or the Orlesian Imperial Army, did they? They allowed you to recruit both. Both became part of your Inquisition (assuming you don't exile the Wardens). Both aided in the Inquisition's mission.

 

And that's what I felt Inquisition should've been in the first place. Aside from the organization that investigates problems and eradicates them, it should be the organization that rallies the failing institutions of Thedas against a common enemy. Like Andraste did against the Imperium.

 

So bringing this back on topic, I wish there'd be an option to get everyone out of the Fade alive. Sure, also include choices where you can lose either Hawke or the Warden, or even include an option where you could lose both of them. But I really dislike these "this or that//choice A or B" options.

 

I remember my professor in Games Analysis in uni said this thing that "a proper RPG should have at least four choices in a situation. A, B, Both or Neither."

[megageeklizzy]

It would just come back to life that long after you killed it. Demons and spirits can't be properly killed by default, Nightmare was spirit that predates the blight and was  then corrupted to a demon as it fed on the fear caused by all the fear associated to it. It would just keep coming back for a rematch to the point you will die of exhaustion. This is why you have to run away, all the characters understand they can not truly kill this thing and why it coming out oft he fade would be very very very dangerous.

 

The scene is very badly scripted (as is the whole mission IMO, but that's another issue). The tired old 'Its an unbeliveably powerful and undefeatable and unstoppable and incontestably terrifying' hyperbole does absolutely nothing to disguise the lack of genuine dread or interest that the Nightmare posseses. Its just some big gribbly, and we've seen its likes billions of times before. They can apply all kinds of 'Its unstoppable!' hysterics, but that simply doesn't matter if you don't sell it. As this thread has so far shown, people simply don't believe and weren't inspired by the narrative to buy into, the idea of this thing being anything more than your standard big bad of the week, that talks a big game until the heroes stick it with swords, crack some one liners and trot off back to Skyhold.

 

The level is completely bungled from the horror angle, as nothing that happens is remotely scary, which sort of undermines the whole premise of what this thing is. And we've never even heard of this thing until around 20 minutes before we meet it. Add in that none of the party members are remotely scared when the beast tries its mess with your mind shenanigans, the lack of any personality of its own, the shortness of the mission, and the fact its sharing the mssions with the stuff about the Divine... Its just a damp squib of an enemy, that the narrative keeps insisting we should be scared of.

 

As for the sacrifice, that's just awful. All the time they spent gabbing, they could all have just have run off. And the idea that one person no matter how amazing, could slow the thing down (especially as they stand there discussing out loud that this is their plan), is similarly daft. Its some gigantic creature, and they are just 1 ordinary sized person. If the thing really cared about getting past them (after all, why would it care about getting hit if its immortal?) it could just swat the distraction aside, or trample over them. Or perhaps cast some spells - or did it forget how to do that since you were fighting it a couple of seconds ago?

 

Its atrocious execution, but given the woeful state of the whole Grey Warden questline, I was hardly surprised or disappointed. It was a fittingly terrible end to a chronically far fetched and silly questline, that at evety turn bungled its storytelling and execution. Far from agony over the choice I was forced to make, I felt euphoric ectasy that at last the mission was over and I could stop cringing at all the ridiculous elements of the questline, before my spine shattered.

I think the design of the Nightmare was pretty interesting, physically.  I absolutely agree about the sacrifice, though.   I actually liked the Fade in Inquisition, but the Grey Wardens have always seemed like an excuse for people to sacrifice themselves in a cliche way whenever Bioware thought there needed to be a sacrifice.  

Duncan: So, you want to join the Wardens?

Sir Jory: Yes.  I want to help fight the blight.

Duncan: You know you might die before you ever become a Grey Warden, right?

Sir Jory: No, I didn't know that!  I have a good life, and my wife is expecting!  I don't want to die! I don't want to do this!  

Duncan: Well, that's a damn shame. *stabs Jory*

Daveth: Oh ****, oh ****, oh ****, oh ****, oh -

Duncan: Now, drink up, boy!  It'll put hair on your chest!

Deveth: Y-yes, sir! *drinks*  *gasps* *dies*

Duncan: Two down, one to go.  Next!

Later, when the Warden is in camp with Alistair;

Alistair: I miss Duncan.  I don't have a psychopath to look up to anymore.

Warden: *awkwardly waits for Alistair to continue*

Alistair: He said that he started hearing the Calling.  He was going to die soon, anyway.

Warden: What's the Calling?

Alistair: Oh yeah, we never got to tell you about that.  You're going to start hearing voices and then die at a young age.  

Warden: What the Hell, man!?  Duncan forced me into a death sentence!  I wish I would have died instead of being conscripted.

Alistair:  Well, somebody has to make the sacrifice...or at least, that's what I've been indoctrinated to believe.  It had might as well be people who have no way of escaping it.  Duncan sacrificed himself.  It's what he would have wanted.

Warden: He got what he deserved.

Alistair:  How could you say such a thing!?  He abducted you, made you his slave, and forced you to take part in a ritual that will eventually kill you!  Why don't you sympathize?

[JadeDragon]

I wonder if Nightmare looked different to the other companions since his fearlings looked different depending on your fear. Id hate to see how he looked to cass. I also wonder if Nightmare will return in future games He seems to be stronger then the forbidden ones. Which makes me think who is the strongest in the series so far between archdemons, flemeth, solas full power and nightmare

[Apollexander]

That's not fair.

It should be Inquisitor, giant demon, and Alistair/Loghain vs Hawke