87 réponses à ce sujet

[Lazengan]

According to Sten in Origins, they never leave Par Vollen

 

Or the kitchen for that matter

[Giantdeathrobot]

Ben-Hassarath don't care about that limitation, and all the female Qunaris you fight are explicitely Ben-Hassarath agents.

 

That's, like, Qunari 101, yo.

[leaguer of one]

Women don't fight......They say creepy thing to you in the dark and stab you in the back.

[MidnightWolf]

Lol.
Perhaps her rank is reserved only for females?.......Anyway, Sten is actually wrong. According to Bull, as long as a Woman shows a natural talent for combat, she's permitted to do/become that role.

[NoForgiveness]

Sten says they don't fight. As in there are no women soldiers. The Ben Hassrath don't count as soldiers.

[X Equestris]

According to Bull, as long as a Woman shows a natural talent for combat, she's permitted to do/become that role.

Pretty much. They just don't consider her a woman when she's performing a combat role, or any other male only role.

The ones we fight in Trespasser are Ben-Hassrath, which are open to both genders.

[krukow]

Because the qunari are whatever the writers want them to be at whatever time they need a plot point or want to make a social point. 

 

Lore and canon are for chumps yo.

[X Equestris]

Because the qunari are whatever the writers want them to be at whatever time they need a plot point or want to make a social point. 
 
Lore and canon are for chumps yo.

You clearly haven't paid attention to the lore. Everything is consistent.

[Rekkampum]

According to Sten in Origins, they never leave Par Vollen

 

Or the kitchen for that matter

 

That's not entirely true. Qunari women are not allowed to fight in the Antaam, but they are allowed in the Ben-Hassrath, which is the branch involved in Trespasser. The writers also introduced the concept of Aqun-Athlok, which are Qunari who live as the opposite gender and are considered such; one's duty to the Qun ultimately supercedes race and gender and as long as they prove themselves worthy of the role, they are permitted it.

[solomon.kosin]

According to IB those who are eager to fight become aqun-athlok: warriors who behave like man and become man in all possible meaning

Also as far as i remember women do serve in Ben-Hazrath,Tallis for example. Viddasala (the qunari woman) studies magic and reeducates dissidents so technically she is not a warrior

[krukow]

You clearly haven't paid attention to the lore. Everything is consistent.

True, the arishok had lots of transgender soldiers.  Or wait, they retconned him to not totally represent the qun.

 

Okay, everything is consistent when you can just retcon things later.  DC Comics style!

[ShadowLordXII]

You clearly haven't paid attention to the lore. Everything is consistent.

 

No. No it's not.

 

Even with self-contradictive retcons and WOGs.

[Sifr]

Sten says they don't fight. As in there are no women soldiers. The Ben Hassrath don't count as soldiers.

 

Yeah, Sten is correct that no woman fights in the military (Antaam), but they do fight as spies (Ben-Hassrath).

 

That's why Sten doesn't have any confusion with Leliana fighting, because she identifies herself as a priestess, which is what those in the Ben-Hassrath fall under in the Qun. His confusion with the female Warden however was that she identified herself as a warrior, yet explicitly stated that she "did not want to be a man" when he asked her?

 

(Which incidentally shows that the concept of Aqun-Athlok and transgendered individuals in the Qun is something that was present even in Origins)

[NRO TYN]

Can qunari women/men interbreed with

 

Humans/Dwarfs/Elves/Dragons( )

[X Equestris]

True, the arishok had lots of transgender soldiers.  Or wait, they retconned him to not totally represent the qun.
 
Okay, everything is consistent when you can just retcon things later.  DC Comics style!

I'm not seeing your point here. It stands to reason that women so well suited to fighting that they could only fit in the Antaam are pretty rare. There's no reason that there being none of them in the Arishok's forces means they don't exist. Humans and elves could be part of the Antaam, too, but we don't see any of them. It doesn't mean they don't exist.

No. No it's not.
 
Even with self-contradictive retcons and WOGs.

Prove it.

[leaguer of one]

Lol.
Perhaps her rank is reserved only for females?.......Anyway, Sten is actually wrong. According to Bull, as long as a Woman shows a natural talent for combat, she's permitted to do/become that role.

...As a man. She is now considered a he.

[leaguer of one]

No. No it's not.

 

Even with self-contradictive retcons and WOGs.

No it's not. Why?

 

Because you are getting this from a guy who is not full explaining the qun and is written to be miss understood. 

[leaguer of one]

According to Sten in Origins, they never leave Par Vollen

 

Or the kitchen for that matter

He never said they never leave Par Vollen.

[Lazarillo]

That's why Sten doesn't have any confusion with Leliana fighting, because she identifies herself as a priestess, which is what those in the Ben-Hassrath fall under in the Qun. His confusion with the female Warden however was that she identified herself as a warrior, yet explicitly stated that she "did not want to be a man" when he asked her?

 

(Which incidentally shows that the concept of Aqun-Athlok and transgendered individuals in the Qun is something that was present even in Origins)

 

I think it has a lot to do with the converts and to-be-converts of the south vs. the "actual" Qunari as well.  The Qunari don't "waste" a resource, so it makes sense that they'd simply consider someone who is already a talented soldier to be a "man".  In that case, a female warrior would probably also end up deemed Aqun-Athlok as they'd probably consider it easier to "re-educate" her on her gender identity than to simply have her learn an entirely new skillset.  However, I expect that the Tamssrans don't exactly give young girls the opportunity to develop those talents in the first place; if gender is defined by role rather than the other way around, there's no point in having gender-specific roles in the first place.

 

Thus Sten, who had never been south of Seheron and Par Vollen before, would probably have only a rough concept of Aqun-Athlok, while Iron Bull, who spent most of his time in Orlais, would be more readily accepting of it, since he'd seen it in practice.

[MidnightWolf]

I have a Qunari question. Are all saarebas' male? Or do female ones exist too?.....

[NoForgiveness]

I have a Qunari question. Are all saarebas' male? Or do female ones exist too?.....

Both ya.

[Arvaarad]

However, I expect that the Tamssrans don't exactly give young girls the opportunity to develop those talents in the first place; if gender is defined by role rather than the other way around, there's no point in having gender-specific roles in the first place.

Maybe role and gender are defined together? If a particular child shows aptitude for several different feminine roles, then the tamassran could figure they're meant to be female, and continue focusing on feminine roles.

Say someone shows aptitude for the role of sten and arvaarad, but is also kind of good at caring for children. The tamassran might look at those together, figure the kid is probably male, and discard "tamassran" from the running.

[Sifr]

He never said they never leave Par Vollen.

 

Yeah, it wasn't Sten but the codex for Origins that mentions that female Qunari are rarely seen outside of Par Vollen... it actually lead to the belief for a while (in-universe) that there weren't any females of their race at all, until an diplomatic envoy from the Chantry was allowed the rare chance to visit Par Vollen and quickly realised their mistake.

 

Bull also mentions that for the Vidasalla to be there in Trespasser is strange because they are almost never allowed out of Par Vollen.

 

Of course, in hindsight the reason no female Qunari being seen outside of Thedas is obvious... the female Qunari actually operating in Thedas are comprised entirely of the Viddathari, because it's easier for them to remain undetected than sending a grey-skinned, horned amazon as a spy.

[Arvaarad]

Yeah, it wasn't Sten but the codex for Origins that mentions that female Qunari are rarely seen outside of Par Vollen... it actually lead to the belief for a while (in-universe) that there weren't any females of their race at all, until an diplomatic envoy from the Chantry was allowed the rare chance to visit Par Vollen and quickly realised their mistake.

Bull also mentions that for the Vidasalla to be there in Trespasser is strange because they are almost never allowed out of Par Vollen.

Of course, in hindsight the reason no female Qunari being seen outside of Thedas is obvious... the female Qunari actually operating in Thedas are comprised entirely of the Viddathari, because it's easier for them to remain undetected than sending a grey-skinned, horned amazon as a spy.

Yep, the Ben-Hassrath used to send more qunari women into the field, but they had a hard time staying incognito. They'd try to be stealthy, only to have their presence announced by a loud PHWOAAAAR in cities with a strong Red Jenny presence. After trying fruitlessly to neutralize this agent of Red Jenny, many of them were forced to retreat into Par Vollen.

Reports suggested that the agent deemed them to be "well fit".

[Lazarillo]

Maybe role and gender are defined together? If a particular child shows aptitude for several different feminine roles, then the tamassran could figure they're meant to be female, and continue focusing on feminine roles.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'd say it's way, way more rare than most people are thinking it is.  Basically, if anyone who is assigned to the role of Sten first and then is deemed "male" because of that assignment, or they're assigned the role of Tamassran first and then deemed "female" because that's their role, that defeats the purpose of having gendered roles at all.  There's no point in saying "men can't be Tamassrans" if all gender matters for is what roles you can be anyway.  In a society like that, all Stens would simply be Stens and all Tamassrans would simply be Tamassrans.