after watching the evil "villain" speach of solas on youtube explaining how elven mages were called gods and that he created the veil.
maker does not exist?
I feel robbed of my excuse for zealotry and seriously consider to re-roll a dwarf. trust in the stone.
The Maker isn't credited with creating the veil. It's credited with creating the things that are on both sides of it.
But who created Thedas and the Fade and all its inhabitants?
All Solas proves is that the Elven Gods were mortals and the veil is a man-made creation. That doesn't prove the Maker doesn't exist.
If anything, it actually might even strengthen the case for it. As Sera once said "There can't be Elven Gods and the Maker. It just doesn't make sense." As much as I dislike her character with an intense passion, she has a point. Now that it's been revealed that the Elven Gods were mortals, it solidifies the possibility that they are creations of the Maker like everyone else.
It doesn't really any have effect on the maker really what the elven gods are. He is still the only deity that supposely created the world, something niether the titians, the elven god-kings and avvar gods claimed to do. Besides maker worship predates both the chantry and andreste for that matter being a ancient Tevinter creator diety That Andreste took to worshiping and launched a holy war around.
It could well be that the first sin that made him turn away could well be the fault of the elves instead of Tevinter. Be really ironic if a Tevinter saves the world from Solas in the next game, doubly so if they are a Magister.
It doesn't really any have effect on the maker really what the elven gods are. He is still the only deity that supposely created the world, something niether the titians, the elven god-kings and avvar gods claimed to do. Besides maker worship predates both the chantry and andreste for that matter being a ancient Tevinter creator diety That Andreste took to worshiping and launched a holy war around.
It could well be that the first sin that made him turn away could well be the fault of the elves instead of Tevinter. Be really ironic if a Tevinter saves the world from Solas in the next game, doubly so if they are a Magister.
That would be quite the redemption.
It doesn't really any have effect on the maker really what the elven gods are. He is still the only deity that supposely created the world, something niether the titians, the elven god-kings and avvar gods claimed to do. Besides maker worship predates both the chantry and andreste for that matter being a ancient Tevinter creator diety That Andreste took to worshiping and launched a holy war around.
It could well be that the first sin that made him turn away could well be the fault of the elves instead of Tevinter. Be really ironic if a Tevinter saves the world from Solas in the next game, doubly so if they are a Magister.
That would really show Tevinter in a different light.
All this time the lore has told us that the Tevene magisters were kind of jerks right since the beginning. If it was actually the elves who ticked off the Maker, that would mean the people who've been shown as the underdogs were the real jerks and the people who've been condemned as jerks throughout history were just being falsely accused.
Of course this doesn't deny the fact that they're still blood magic using, slave owning tyrants, but it does bring them down from that arch-villains category where they've resided up till now.
So, Solas says that the elf gods are not gods. That doesn't mean others won't worship them or consider them to be gods.
We tell the Avvar that their gods are not gods, but they disagree.
The dwarves speak of the Stone, stone sense, and how dwarves return to the Stone... that's some pretty metaphysica-- oh, look! A Titan!
Is there a pattern in which a person's god is discredited to being a god when they are shown to exist?
Certainly, I don't subscribe to the definition of godhood as the elves or Avvar may, but that is just an argument in semantics, not in the existence of such beings.
The Maker, the Chant says, created the Fade, then the Earth and all its peoples, then left when they started to worship and seek wisdom from other things.
The Maker is credited with being the Creator of reality, but none of the others are.
Is the Maker real? Well, the other faiths seem to have real foundations for their beliefs, why not Andrastianism?
Edit: What I would like to see is a faith that actually doesn't fit with the Chant/Chantry, not just other faiths that could still fit the narrative of the Chant of Light. A faith that actually has a different idea of a creator god or gods, and is also just left as "faith" in DA, and not just exposed like the dwarf, Avvar, and elf faiths.
That would really show Tevinter in a different light.
All this time the lore has told us that the Tevene magisters were kind of jerks right since the beginning. If it was actually the elves who ticked off the Maker, that would mean the people who've been shown as the underdogs were the real jerks and the people who've been condemned as jerks throughout history were just being falsely accused.
Of course this doesn't deny the fact that they're still blood magic using, slave owning tyrants, but it does bring them down from that arch-villains category where they've resided up till now.
Now this i like.
It could well be that the first sin that made him turn away could well be the fault of the elves instead of Tevinter. Be really ironic if a Tevinter saves the world from Solas in the next game, doubly so if they are a Magister.
Tevinter is basically Arlathan v2.0 created after the Veil was put up. Wouldn't surprise me if the Magister bloodlines had a lots of ancient elven blood. That would explain why they had Dreamers at least.
Well, much like Jehovah in our world, Maker or the concept of It's existence can not be logically prove or disprove, because It is a bloody all mighty, and since we're not all mighty (nor will we in the predictable future), we can never sure It is exist or not. Believer will always find excuses, and they are all not wrong since we're talking about a all-mighty.
I definitely believe there is a connection between all the Maker gods across Thedas.
Codex shows June, the elven god of craft, is the most mysterious god of the pantheon and some historians aren't even sure if he's suppose to be an elf.
The Stone was created by a god of creation.
The Maker is said to have 'made' himself.
What if, when Corypheus and the other Magisters went into the black city to seek the Maker (June in the pantheon), found that the Golden City / Arlathan was corrupt and polluted by evil Elf-false-god magic and that the seat of the Maker (June) was empty.
The Veil may have not only sealed away gods, but at the expense of disconnecting the Maker from the Fade.
- I have a bizarre feeling Sandal is going to be revealed as The Maker. He is a rather crafty little dwarf, isn't he? With a propensity for mysterious magic despite being a dwarf. Perhaps he is capable of being so much stronger once the connection is re-established. Its already pretty established he is much older than he appears (The Library in Trespasser DLC, where he wrote a journal spanning centuries).
I definitely believe there is a connection between all the Maker gods across Thedas.
Codex shows June, the elven god of craft, is the most mysterious god of the pantheon and some historians aren't even sure if he's suppose to be an elf.
The Stone was created by a god of creation.
The Maker is said to have 'made' himself.
What if, when Corypheus and the other Magisters went into the black city to seek the Maker (June in the pantheon), found that the Golden City / Arlathan was corrupt and polluted by evil Elf-false-god magic and that the seat of the Maker (June) was empty.
The Veil may have not only sealed away gods, but at the expense of disconnecting the Maker from the Fade.
- I have a bizarre feeling Sandal is going to be revealed as The Maker. He is a rather crafty little dwarf, isn't he? With a propensity for mysterious magic despite being a dwarf. Perhaps he is capable of being so much stronger once the connection is re-established. Its already pretty established he is much older than he appears (The Library in Trespasser DLC, where he wrote a journal spanning centuries).
I think his diary only lasted a year or so (approximately the time between the Conclave and the defeat of the Elder One). From 9:41 to 9:42.
It solidifies nothing. Show me the Maker and I'll consider the possiblity that he's a creator of something. Until then, this remains a belief with no basis. The mere question "Who created X" is already flawed, since it presupposes someone is responsible. "How did X come to pass or to exist" would be a more appropriate phrasing, considering that we know absolutely nothing about anything's origin on Thedas.But who created Thedas and the Fade and all its inhabitants?
All Solas proves is that the Elven Gods were mortals and the veil is a man-made creation. That doesn't prove the Maker doesn't exist.
If anything, it actually might even strengthen the case for it. As Sera once said "There can't be Elven Gods and the Maker. It just doesn't make sense." As much as I dislike her character with an intense passion, she has a point. Now that it's been revealed that the Elven Gods were mortals, it solidifies the possibility that they are creations of the Maker like everyone else.
I hope when we go Tevinter that the Andrastian religion get's punched in the balls the only time it happened in inquisition was the fade. They went into more into the dwarven and elf stuff but I think the fade section was not enough.
It will be pure gold though if Andraste was a mage scratch that maybe even a blood mage!
The revelations in Trespasser clearly cast huge amounts of doubt on the concept of the Maker and Chantry belief. I am kinda shocked to hear people say "it had no effect".
According to the Chantry, The Maker most certainly created the veil. Sadly this is kind of a plot hole in Trespasser as you are at the Winter Palace with The Divine and no one thinks to mention it.
I'm not for or against one side or another, just wished it was better addressed in-game.
The Maker is synonymous with God. For that reason I doubt they will ever confirm or deny his actual existence.
The Maker is synonymous with God. For that reason I doubt they will ever confirm or deny his actual existence.
Could be. Though, I hope that isn't what holds BW back. They are creative enough to do something interesting I am sure.
Regardless, I wish the characters would have addressed that their beliefs were challenged.
Tevinter is basically Arlathan v2.0 created after the Veil was put up. Wouldn't surprise me if the Magister bloodlines had a lots of ancient elven blood. That would explain why they had Dreamers at least.
It is a fact actually, human kingdoms and empire were formed by elf blooded humans who was a powerfull mages and wanted to become as powerfull and immortal like elves
they then find 4 old deamons who were banished by elves and they give them info about archdeamons and humans obey to 7 Archdeamons and do and sacrifice everything but still failed and were used by Archdeamons who free themselfs
ancient humans do sh*t, it was all humanity fault and if not elves who give tevinters ancient knowledge so they would create grey wardens first blight would be the end...they kill Dumat army 7 times
It was not a magisters but a worshipers of 7 Old gods and they were worshiped by 99% of all Thedas humans who after first blight and Hessarian reforms would become other nations
so its kinda stupid to others nations blame modern Tevinter for blight then it is their ancestors work too, and it was Tevinter army and heroes who stop the most and strongests of all blights
The Maker is synonymous with God. For that reason I doubt they will ever confirm or deny his actual existence.
This. BW says he'll forever remain unfalsifiable.
The revelations in Trespasser clearly cast huge amounts of doubt on the concept of the Maker and Chantry belief. I am kinda shocked to hear people say "it had no effect".
According to the Chantry, The Maker most certainly created the veil. Sadly this is kind of a plot hole in Trespasser as you are at the Winter Palace with The Divine and no one thinks to mention it.
I'm not for or against one side or another, just wished it was better addressed in-game.
Nothing in the Chant of Light says that the Maker created the Veil, there is your answer for the lack of The Divine saying anything about it.
I think some people missed the part where there was still a separation between the Fade and the physical world pre-Veil. Elves still had to dream to go deep in the Fade and the the closer they were to the earth the less their magic could affect reality.
Nothing in the Chant of Light says that the Maker created the Veil, there is your answer for the lack of The Divine saying anything about it.
I think some people missed the part where there was still a separation between the Fade and the physical world pre-Veil. Elves still had to dream to go deep in the Fade and the the closer they were to the earth the less their magic could affect reality.
Sure, but the Chant of Light isn't the whole of Chantry doctrine... right? I think the revelations from Solas still contradict their belief/teachings.
Sure, but the Chant of Light isn't the whole of Chantry doctrine... right? I think the revelations from Solas still contradict their belief/teachings.
It is the basis for their doctrines. I've yet to see the Chantry claim something that can't be traced back to an interpretation of a Canticle. Also, the way the faith in the Maker works, most Andrastian would consider Solas putting up the Veil being the Maker's Will.
after watching the evil "villain" speach of solas on youtube explaining how elven mages were called gods and that he created the veil.
maker does not exist?
I feel robbed of my excuse for zealotry and seriously consider to re-roll a dwarf. trust in the stone.
The Maker is synonymous with God. For that reason I doubt they will ever confirm or deny his actual existence.
Bioware has already stated that they will never confirm or deny The Maker's existence.
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