139 réponses à ce sujet

[MACharlie1]

Psychopath? Nope. That would suggest that he lacked a conscious. He obviously feels remorse, guilt, love, etc.

 

Psychopaths don't feel these things. 

So yes. He's messed up in the head but not in that way. 

[DeathScepter]

He used to show sign of being a psychopath , seeing people as "not real" "tranquil" , when there is no doubt they are real and able to show emotions.

 

This lead him to act as a psycho too , when he gave his orb to Cory wanting it to explode and not really giving much a damn about who it would hurt.

Solas was near Haven , he was waiting for his ball of doom to explode in an area with a lot of people , those unreal tranquil like non people were having a peace talk , debate what have you etc ,to save their civilisation from chaos.A free world where an elected Divine gathered the free populace to express themselves and find a solution.

This beats what we know of the Evanuris , no?

Still Solas decide those people are unworthy savages.

 

Even so  I wouldn't call him a full psychopath , because he went through a very traumatic event , he woke up to see he had destroyed the people he wanted to save.

He's able to show sign of empathy , for what it's worth , and it's not worth much.He spend much time whining about how it pains him.But doesn't think other people's pain and thought equal his own , the Inquisitor, one of the rare special snowflakes he can respect still has to prove him the current world and its people are worth saving.

The killing of Felassan was also bordeline psychopath level , Felassan knew there would be no talks , he fail at bringing back the Eluvian passwords and it meant death.Plain and simple.No trial nothing.

 

 

there is no such thing as an former psychopath. you are one or not. Psychopaths are born that way and can't change no matter how hard they try.

[phishface]

Awesome commentary, phishface, truly and sincerely.

 

It’s imperative that you’ve clarified the definition of psychopath by illustrating that even the most famous psychopaths have friends, lovers, family, hundreds, hundreds of thousands, or millions of people who follow them begrudgingly, willingly, or even enthusiastically.  It outlines one facet of psychopathic personalities, that they can be very charming, manipulative, and intensely calculating.  Scientists and journalists consider psychopaths perilous interviews because of these qualities – they claim that they can spend several hours with a psychopath and come away feeling hypnotized.

 

And I think you’re right on about the cleverness of Bioware creating a complex, attractive, and sympathetic character to hypnotize us and/or victimize the player.  We have people who will not condemn Solas and we also have various threads over this forum in particular expressing the dissatisfaction of the people who came away from the Trespasser DLC feeling victimized.  Both viewpoints you’ve mentioned are represented here.  I agree that it is a testament to the quality of the writing.  I’ve bumped into a noticeably large cross-section of writers interested in creating just such characters – the psychopath or sociopath who is capable of making the reader love him, or at least walk away hypnotized, despite the psychopath’s insistence that the world and people in it are his for the taking.

 

I am most eager to see the result of the audacity of this kind of writing in Dragon Age.  Thus far, I’ve only been witness to the negative results that inevitably happen when real people are asked to play the victim to a writer’s character – something that would not necessarily happen in a book written by a single person in which the reader is simply witness, but will undoubtedly happen in any role playing situation, or an rpg game in which the writer designs endings in which the villain leaves all protagonists with either stunned feeling of a husband/wife, child, friend or leaves with a victim’s tunnel vision of millions of deaths.

 

Thank you for the excellent perspective!

 

Thank you. Though you might be giving me a bit too much credit - it's you who spotted the 'hypnotic victimization' aspect of it. It's pretty clear from this topic that many are unaware of the great subtlety of psychopathy, and of the psychopath's astonishing capacity for deception. As you observe, they can be capable of conning even people who are professionally skeptical, like forensic psychiatrists and the courts. 

[QueenCrow]

Thank you. Though you might be giving me a bit too much credit - it's you who spotted the 'hypnotic victimization' aspect of it. It's pretty clear from this topic that many are unaware of the great subtlety of psychopathy, and of the psychopath's astonishing capacity for deception. As you observe, they can be capable of conning even people who are professionally skeptical, like forensic psychiatrists and the courts. 

 

What you said made me realize that Hitler (I've read that he's the epitome of psychopath) loved dogs, had people who loved him and people he apparently loved.  He and Eva Braun, by all appearances, seemed devoted to each other.

 

Others (his clear victims) only see the destruction he caused, even to his own people when his noble intent was to glorify them.  

 

On one hand - He had friends and a lover and his people believed in him so much that they would follow him to their demise.

On the other - The result of his action was war, death (even for the people he claimed to love), and the calculated mass murder of those deemed "untermensch" (sub-people) in order to make room for the advancement of his people, those people he believed had been robbed of their glorious place in the world.

[AstraDrakkar]

No, he doesn't fit the DSM classification of a psychpath....but he is nuts.

[TUHD]

Psychopath? Nope. False 'saviour of the world/race' attitude? Hell yes.

He has a strong sense of duty, even that far that it's beyond what can be considered normal/healthy.

[RoughTumble]

He's wisdom that has been corrupted into pride, like his spirit friend turned demon in his personal quest. 

[SwobyJ]

Considering that I trust Cole, I take him as someone who has undergone a journey that none of us can quite understand, but sure, he comes off as a narcissist or megalomaniac. But he's not one.

 

Good people can and will be brought to bad things. People can be right about things while still causing harm in how they act on it.

 

I'm caught in his tide. Okay. But I have absolutely no problem with altering his flow or cutting it off if necessary.

[Boost32]

Considering that I trust Cole, I take him as someone who has undergone a journey that none of us can quite understand, but sure, he comes off as a narcissist or megalomaniac. But he's not one.

Good people can and will be brought to bad things. People can be right about things while still causing harm in how they act on it.

I'm caught in his tide. Okay. But I have absolutely no problem with altering his flow or cutting it off if necessary.

He is the only one who can save the elvhen people, kill/imprison again the Creators and restore the Elven Glory. How is that not megalomaniac?

[SwobyJ]

He is the only one who can save the elvhen people, kill/imprison again the Creators and restore the Elven Glory. How is that not megalomaniac?

 

He exhibits megalomania, he just isn't a megalomaniac. He's doing what he's doing because he's wrong about something, not because he is incapable of seeing the possibility of him being wrong. There is also the difference between what he feels (what Cole detects) and what he says in order to reinforce his resolve, as well as push others away that may unduely receive negative consequences.

 

But go ahead and pick the kill instead of convince option. Bioware likes their allowance of multiple perspectives.

 

The kill option is very justified because while Solas isn't an absolute megalomaniac, he exhibits enough of it that it that it can be considered immaterial to the decision of what to do about him - that it doesn't matter how wise and caring his core is, his pride has largely overridden that and is a direct threat to all life on Thedas.

 

It is convenient and valid to just consider Solas to be mad and the Inquisitor and players to be possibly taken in by his madness, but I don't think that's the complete intent of the writers. If someone else, or even a whole faction clearly showed themselves to be capable and proceeding into a plan to save the elvhen, stop the Creators, bring a glory age to the elves out of their relative squalor, and maybe even repair the damage (in whatever way) brought by the Veil, I really do think that Solas would step further back and let much of it happen instead of assuming direct control of the situation, in a regrettably destructive way.

Or we could just kill him.

 

But if I'm right about that, then a true total megalomaniac (as a person, not a mode of behavior) would not even accept that. Solas shows time and again though that he's willing to learn, even if he is highly argumentative. It just turns out that he didn't learn enough, but we have to remember the context he came from is highly different from the context he arrived into. He is an alien that has landed on a homeworld 1000s of years behind that doesn't even remember anything of the old days. I think many of us, if we had a similar situation, finding the world of cavemen instead of modernity, would ultimately decide to bring all that modernity back even at the cost of the cavemen losing their capacity to have their homes, safety, way of life. I don't think we fully comprehend how very extensive and powerful the world of the elves was, even with their glaring fault of having gods that capriciously pinned followers against each other (a societal problem Solas aimed to solve, but not infrastructural, etc).

 

TLDR: Very valid to treat Solas as a megalomaniac and it would be true most of the time, even almost all of the time in a Low Approval setting, but it would not be so absolutely true as to brand him as one and ignore all competing evidence.

He's a villain, and he's problematic, and he may seem mad, but I really don't think he definitely (as in fully regarded by the writers in every way) IS mad or IS evil. It is up to us.

[Wren]

If Solas has any type of personality disorder, it would be Anankastic PD, in my opinion.  

[AtreiyaN7]

No, he isn't - and the situation is very complex. The man is the opposite of narcissistic and has no delusions about being a god (especially since he tends to be all "No, please stop calling me a god, because I'm not a god - and neither are those people lying to you about being gods who I opposed."). He clearly does feel remorse, compassion, and regret.

 

Don't get me wrong, he'll kill and manipulate others because he feels that he must to restore his own people, etc., but he certainly doesn't enjoy it or get any kind of twisted satisfaction out of it. He doesn't really fall into the category of being sociopathic from my standpoint, and despite the assorted cracks I keep seeing about him being racist, he's not racist.

 

It's pretty clear where the comments he made come from and that it's because the current Thedan races lack the same connection to the Fade that the pre-Veil, err, beings/elves had - as he put it, to him it was as if everyone in the world was the equivalent of a Tranquil due to the lack of connection and that they weren't real to him (in a sense). However, the Inquisitor proved that regardless of what heppened, the current Thedan races are people, and he does accept that he was wrong.

[Jandi]

He's the opposite actually.

 

If he was, he would care NOTHING for his people or restoring anything.

[Vol_Tang_Clan]

Doesn't matter. Dude's plan is batsh!t anyway.

[Ellawynn]

No, he isn't - and the situation is very complex. The man is the opposite of narcissistic and has no delusions about being a god (especially since he tends to be all "No, please stop calling me a god, because I'm not a god - and neither are those people lying to you about being gods who I opposed."). He clearly does feel remorse, compassion, and regret.

 

Don't get me wrong, he'll kill and manipulate others because he feels that he must to restore his own people, etc., but he certainly doesn't enjoy it or get any kind of twisted satisfaction out of it. He doesn't really fall into the category of being sociopathic from my standpoint, and despite the assorted cracks I keep seeing about him being racist, he's not racist.

 

It's pretty clear where the comments he made come from and that it's because the current Thedan races lack the same connection to the Fade that the pre-Veil, err, beings/elves had - as he put it, to him it was as if everyone in the world was the equivalent of a Tranquil due to the lack of connection and that they weren't real to him (in a sense). However, the Inquisitor proved that regardless of what heppened, the current Thedan races are people, and he does accept that he was wrong.

Eeehhhh, he is kinda racist. I mean, his "racist" comment about the dwarves turned out to be a statement of an unfortunate fact (They - the dwarves - were a small part amputated from a greater whole - the titans - and lost much of their magic and capability because of it), but it's hard to look at some of what he says about humans and Qunari as anything but prejudiced.

 

That being said... I really don't understand where people keep getting this idea that he's a genocidal maniac who wants to wipe Thedas clean of all the non-elven filth or... whatever. He says himself that he wants to drop the Veil and restore the elves. That's it. It just so happens that chaos and destruction are unhappy side-effects of that. He's not targeting non-elves specifically. Death isn't his cause, it's his cost. One he finds acceptable. 

 

Now, it's still a really high cost, and further, this isn't his call to make to begin with. But nonetheless, genocide isn't his goal. He says it himself, these people deserve better. He just doesn't think he can afford to give it to them.