367 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

Also... I don't know, it's like you're willfully ignoring what was said in the very game itself. Yes, Leliana said that Solas knows how Inquisition in its old shape has worked. Solution to it? Well, we have to find new people to work with!

 

Really, unless we're being introduced to other forces at play, so far only what's left of Inquisition seem to have any realistic chance to uncover what Solas is planning and have any chance to stop him.

 

You made a great post, but I wanted to reiterate these parts specifically. I don't understand why everyone takes "We need to find new people" as a definite no to the Inquisitor being able to deal with Solas. Because the game itself - no - the very same scene it's said in, disproves that! If the Inquisitor thought Solas knowing them was such a major disadvantage that they couldn't even put up a fight against him, they wouldn't have sworn to go after him and they wouldn't be working with what's left of the Inquisition (people Solas knows, no less) to restructure it in the epilogue!

 

Seriously, that line means a lot less than people give it credit for. Sure, Solas knowing your organization's methods is a disadvantage. But people are acting like it almost physically prevents the Inquisition from doing anything anymore. That's just not true. You reorganize, find some new people, and try your best. None of that means the Inquisitor has to sit idle, otherwise they would have. And as other people have said, the Inquisitor has the same advantage of knowing Solas, which is an advantage no other group has. So if anything, that makes things relatively even.

[Mr.House]

You made a great post, but I wanted to reiterate these parts specifically. I don't understand why everyone takes "We need to find new people" as a definite no to the Inquisitor being able to deal with Solas. Because the game itself - no - the very same scene it's said in, disproves that! If the Inquisitor thought Solas knowing them was such a major disadvantage that they couldn't even put up a fight against him, they wouldn't have sworn to go after him and they wouldn't be working with what's left of the Inquisition (people Solas knows, no less) to restructure it in the epilogue!

 

Seriously, that line means a lot less than people give it credit for. Sure, Solas knowing your organization's methods is a disadvantage. But people are acting like it almost physically prevents the Inquisition from doing anything anymore. That's just not true. You reorganize, find some new people, and try your best. None of that means the Inquisitor has to sit idle, otherwise they would have. And as other people have said, the Inquisitor has the same advantage of knowing Solas, and an advantage no other group has. So if anything, that makes things relatively even.

Personally how I took that is Leli's successors (who Solas does not know how fully they work) new agents and companions (after all unless you romance Cullen, he is no lnoger your commander) will be her what she leads, but she will not be sitting this out. Of course if Bioware does have her sit out then the ending of Trespasser was a waste of everyones time and they should have just killed her off. If you want to end a story like that and have the protag have a personal stake, a speech like that and always alive, you use it.

 

/yes making shoving the inquisitor to the side will kill Traspasser for me and I don't mean being a main character, I mean she's hardly there, has a crappy cameo and does not confront Solas ect

[ModernAcademic]

It really scares me how some people think becoming physically disabled means the person is now automatically useless...

 

 

So many kings and emperors had diseases and disabilities - like epilepsy, hemophilia and anemia - and for centuries, no one knew, except fot their confidants.

 

And they did well to hide those deficiencies from the populace. The common person associates having a physical impediment to being unlucky, useless or hated by the Gods. They'll never understand how competence and brilliance has nothing to do with the condition of your body.

 

Great minds made great contributions to science, such as Stephen Hawking. But most people only see a crippled researcher working in a reclusive lab; a sad sick individual worthy of their pity. And someone who they would avoid having contact with, because disabilities usually cause repulsion.

 

 

You think mankind has evolved from centuries of prejudice and twisted morality, but the reality is that the overall mentality regarding anything that's not "normal" remains pretty much the same.

 

 

 

I'm proud my Inquisitor lost her hand. It is a battle scar she wears proudly. She fought for king and country and no one can say otherwise. And if any thedosian is stupid enough to feel sorry for her or badmouth her for it, they'll be gently reminded of who stood against all odds to close the Breach and save the world. Just as it should be.

[robertthebard]

You made a great post, but I wanted to reiterate these parts specifically. I don't understand why everyone takes "We need to find new people" as a definite no to the Inquisitor being able to deal with Solas. Because the game itself - no - the very same scene it's said in, disproves that! If the Inquisitor thought Solas knowing them was such a major disadvantage that they couldn't even put up a fight against him, they wouldn't have sworn to go after him and they wouldn't be working with what's left of the Inquisition (people Solas knows, no less) to restructure it in the epilogue!
 
Seriously, that line means a lot less than people give it credit for. Sure, Solas knowing your organization's methods is a disadvantage. But people are acting like it almost physically prevents the Inquisition from doing anything anymore. That's just not true. You reorganize, find some new people, and try your best. None of that means the Inquisitor has to sit idle, otherwise they would have. And as other people have said, the Inquisitor has the same advantage of knowing Solas, and an advantage no other group has. So if anything, that makes things relatively even.

Actually, I'm acting like they meant what they said when they said it, in the context that they said it in, instead of twisting the context to "We're going to have to fire all my companions, because surely Solas will never try to have spies watching me twice". It's hilarious, to me, to realize that the Qunari and Solas had so many spies in the Inquisition that they, according to Solas, tripped over each other, but somehow, that's what, irrelevant, because "we must have the Inquisitor back"? Here's an example of that logic proven wrong: Hawke uncovered Corypheus, and then defeated him. The only real difference between the dialog with Solas and Janeka/Larius at the end of Legacy is Solas still looks like Solas, instead of someone else, like Cory did. Yet somehow, "because Inquisitor", these are different?

[ShadowLordXII]

All the Anchor did was let the Inquisitor close/open Fade Rifts; physically enter the Fade and close the Breach.

 

Everything else? That was all the Inquisitor's efforts and work either by him/herself or in collaboration with a coherent and competent team/organization.

[robertthebard]

All the Anchor did was let the Inquisitor close/open Fade Rifts; physically enter the Fade and close the Breach.
 
Everything else? That was all the Inquisitor's efforts and work either by him/herself or in collaboration with a coherent and competent team/organization.

Except that, w/out it, the would be Inquisitor would have died in the blast. If not, the would be Inquisitor might well have been strung up in Haven "They have already decided your guilt, they need it". W/out that "the only thing it does is close rifts", there would have been no Herald of Andraste.

[Iakus]

If the Anchor was the only thing that made the Inquisitor special, then the Herald of Andraste never would have become the Inquisitor to begin with.  

 

Having a green nite-lite on your hand doesn't make you a good authority figure, in peace or war.

[BabyPuncher]

According to the narrative, the Inquisitor is about the totally awesomest person to have ever existed.

 

But in reality the writers completely failed to actually demonstrate anything even remotely close to that, so the Inquisitor is indeed an unimpressive character.

 

The Inquisitor's real power was never the anchor. That should be obvious. Their real power was the power of being Just That Awesome clumsily enforced by the narrative.

[Iakus]

According to the narrative, the Inquisitor is about the totally awesomest person to have ever existed.

 

But in reality the writers completely failed to actually demonstrate anything even remotely close to that, so the Inquisitor is indeed an unimpressive character.

 

The Inquisitor's real power was never the anchor. That should be obvious. Their real power was the power of being Just That Awesome clumsily enforced by the narrative.

The power was in being the Player Character.

 

Which is pretty common in games of any genre.  Without the player, there is no game, no story.

[BabyPuncher]

That's nonsense. That would make all player characters equally powerful and successful, which they obviously aren't.

 

I'm sure that's what BioWare would like players to implicitly believe (without thinking about it too hard). That the Inquisition is successful because, you, the person sitting in front of the computer or television screen with the mouse or controller in your hand, is just that super cool and talented of a person. I imagine quite a few players do implicitly believe precisely that.

 

But no. The player is irrelevant.

[Elhanan]

According to the narrative, the Inquisitor is about the totally awesomest person to have ever existed.
 
But in reality the writers completely failed to actually demonstrate anything even remotely close to that, so the Inquisitor is indeed an unimpressive character.
 
The Inquisitor's real power was never the anchor. That should be obvious. Their real power was the power of being Just That Awesome clumsily enforced by the narrative.

This appears to be incorrect, as Solas, Flemeth, Cory, and others seem to have more power than the Inq. As for personal opinions, these are generally equal, though informed ones are better as a rule.

[Korva]

That was my biggest complaint about Trespasser by far, and it made me feel like the ending was rushed. Your death is virtually guaranteed, yet your romance and most of your friends don't offer much sympathy or regret or heartbreak, considering they probably won't see you ever again. Then when you get back, no one is relieved. Actually, no one says anything at all. From meeting Solas to the credits is just a long cutscene, and that was bad.

 

Agreed. Again the protagonist isn't treated as a character, and the companions are completely swept aside. That is not good writing, especially for the ending of a story. (And as I said in some other threads, the inability to talk to Cole is especially troubling given the way he is used in the DLC. There are a lot of open questions as to how much exactly he knew ... and what that means for the character's integrity.)

 

I was too busy wondering why the hell the Exalted Council didn't notice the Inquisitor's lack of left arm or comment on it, and wondering when she lost it to pay much attention to anything else. Because you don't see it. I didn't like how that was handled at all. It was almost like Solas was originally just going to take the anchor, so no one recorded any lines about the hand, then they decided to remove it and not record any. Not even the Inquisitor says anything about it.

 

Agreed again. It doesn't fit the way the scenes are presented, and it doesn't make sense either: one moment you're fighting with that hand as always, the next moment it's supposedly too far gone to save? Meh, I call BS.

 

The problem is further compounded by the fact that the epilogue slides (unless taken as non-canon or far in the future) paint everyone in the inner circle - including the Inquisitor - as ignoring The Solas Threat™ and scattering to go settle down or relax, even though that's directly contrasted by the epilogue scene and the characters' personalities themselves.

 

They tried to combine a generic Bioware epilogue (which I've never been fond of primarily because of the painful "all your friends leave without looking back" element) with a setup for a story about an ex-friend about to end the world, and that's just divide-by-zero-levels of "does not compute". Even if we treat the epilogues as hearsay to throw the enemy off, it's just unsatisfying because I as the player am not the enemy, I want to know the truth and not smokescreens and rumors.

 

- Shock value, which didn't really work for me. It was more like "confusion value" since you don't actually see them lose their arm. "Okay, he removed the anchor. Wait, why do I have no arm, and why is no one commenting on it?" *sigh*

- They really wanted the Inquisitor to have something negative happen to them, since nothing did previously. A price for the anchor.

- They want cool new gameplay mechanics! *shrug*

- To cripple them as an excuse to discard them in the next game, which I would find abhorrent and insulting. Also bad storytelling.

 

#1 and #4 seem the most likely to me, and are extremely aggravating for so many reasons (many of which were covered by people calling out abelism and the various reasons why throwing the Inquisitor and their bond with Solas under the bus). If #1 and #2 were intended for story purposes, they fail utterly because of the lack of reaction and follow-up. It's not storytelling or character development when there is no storytelling or character development.

[Iakus]

That's nonsense. That would make all player characters equally powerful and successful, which they obviously aren't.

 

I'm sure that's what BioWare would like players to implicitly believe (without thinking about it too hard). That the Inquisition is successful because, you, the person sitting in front of the computer or television screen with the mouse or controller in your hand, is just that super cool and talented of a person. I imagine quite a few players do implicitly believe precisely that.

 

But no. The player is irrelevant.

No, all player characters are potentially equally powerful and successful.  What the player does to achieve that potential is what makes fro unique playthroughs.

 

And again, it's not the player who's "super-awesome", it's the character, by being controlled by an actual player in a world of automated programs, who can affect change in the game world, which turns that character into The Hero.  The game is designed to make the protagonist so.  It's the purpose of its existence (unless it's a deconstruction of it, like Oblivion or Spec Ops: The Line)

[Arakat]

Actually, I'm acting like they meant what they said when they said it, in the context that they said it in, instead of twisting the context to "We're going to have to fire all my companions, because surely Solas will never try to have spies watching me twice". It's hilarious, to me, to realize that the Qunari and Solas had so many spies in the Inquisition that they, according to Solas, tripped over each other, but somehow, that's what, irrelevant, because "we must have the Inquisitor back"? Here's an example of that logic proven wrong: Hawke uncovered Corypheus, and then defeated him. The only real difference between the dialog with Solas and Janeka/Larius at the end of Legacy is Solas still looks like Solas, instead of someone else, like Cory did. Yet somehow, "because Inquisitor", these are different?

 

The relationship (and I don't mean a romantic one, necessarily) between Solas and the Inquisitor is very different from the relationship between Corypheus and Hawke. The latter don't even have a relationship to speak of, really. I really don't understand why people keep bringing that up as an argument against the Inquisitor returning.

[robertthebard]

That's nonsense. That would make all player characters equally powerful and successful, which they obviously aren't.
 
I'm sure that's what BioWare would like players to implicitly believe (without thinking about it too hard). That the Inquisition is successful because, you, the person sitting in front of the computer or television screen with the mouse or controller in your hand, is just that super cool and talented of a person. I imagine quite a few players do implicitly believe precisely that.
 
But no. The player is irrelevant.

Then what exactly do you see as the PC's job in a game? Puppet to the NPCs? Just another example of irrelevancy? W/out the player character, there is no game, it's a movie, or a book. Sure they have a protagonist, but nothing you think while watching/reading the medium will affect what the protagonist does. In games, you can affect what the protagonist does, and sometimes, the ending can be vastly different, depending on what choice you make. In Baldur's Gate, you can become the new Lord of Murder, or not, depending on what you choose to do. For something that doesn't matter, according to you, player input sure seems to vary the end of that story wildly.

[midnight tea]

Actually, I'm acting like they meant what they said when they said it, in the context that they said it in, instead of twisting the context to "We're going to have to fire all my companions, because surely Solas will never try to have spies watching me twice". It's hilarious, to me, to realize that the Qunari and Solas had so many spies in the Inquisition that they, according to Solas, tripped over each other, but somehow, that's what, irrelevant, because "we must have the Inquisitor back"? Here's an example of that logic proven wrong: Hawke uncovered Corypheus, and then defeated him. The only real difference between the dialog with Solas and Janeka/Larius at the end of Legacy is Solas still looks like Solas, instead of someone else, like Cory did. Yet somehow, "because Inquisitor", these are different?

 

Yikes, you really sound rather desperate now... And no - you're not acting what they said it when they said it, considering that many people got the very opposite impression to yours, no matter of their views on Solas. That should perhaps tell you something.

 

Also - this has already been said multiple times: Hawke was initially supposed to be the Inquisitor in DAI. There are many clues suggesting that. They've had to change their plans due to reception of DAII - now that DAI is actually well-received and critically acclaimed (and with the lack of limitations stemming from old-gen) AND with so many things pointing to them wanting to continue Inquisitor's story, there's far less stopping them from experimenting with the format and delivering the story the way they think will work best, which may involve recurring or multiple protagonists in future games.

 

Also - go check the updated Dragon Age Keep. If there were any doubts about continuing with Inquisitor's story, go check the tiles or choices and check their descriptions.

[midnight tea]

Just for reference - with tiles for Dragon Age Keep released, I think we can put many doubts to rest. I mean, I have no idea how it isn't obvious from the DLC itself, but in the Keep we've just gained a very strong proof that BW is indeed not yet done with Quizzies.

 

(from the Keep)

 

What Was The Final Fate Of The Inquisition?

 

a.) The Inquisitor preserved the Inquisition as a peacekeeping force reporting directly to the Divine Victoria. This leaves future efforts against Solas stronger thanks to Inquisition resources, but runs the risk of Solas's spies infiltrating the organization.

 

b.) the Inquisitor formally disbanded the Inquisition, leaving future efforts against Solas weaker for lack of resources, but more secure due to no chance of Solas's spies infiltrating the organization.

 

And then there's this:

What was the Inquisitor's final goal regarding Solas?

a.) the Inquisitor considers Solas beyond redemption and commits to stopping him at all costs.

 

b.) the Inquisitor believes that Solas is making a tragic mistake and intends to redeem Solas, if possible.

 

If that is not saying us something about the future involvement of Inquisitor, I don't know what else will (well, aside from DLC itself). We're yet to find out in what capacity they'd be involved, but it's rather obvious that their story has not yet ended..

[midnight tea]

The relationship (and I don't mean a romantic one, necessarily) between Solas and the Inquisitor is very different from the relationship between Corypheus and Hawke. The latter don't even have a relationship to speak of, really. I really don't understand why people keep bringing that up as an argument against the Inquisitor returning.

 

I view it as even more of a proof that Inquisitor will be back - if they've brought Hawke to DAI simply for unwittingly releasing Corypheus, how can they not bring Inquisitor (in some greater narrative measure) to deal with or save one of his former companions?

[Reznore57]

Just for reference - with tiles for Dragon Age Keep released, I think we can put many doubts to rest. I mean, I have no idea how it isn't obvious from the DLC itself, but in the Keep itself we've just gained have a very strong proof that BW is indeed not yet done with Quizzies.

 

(from the Keep)

 

What Was The Final Fate Of The Inquisition?

 

a.) The Inquisitor preserved the Inquisition as a peacekeeping force reporting directly to the Divine Victoria. This leaves future efforts against Solas stronger thanks to Inquisition resources, but runs the risk of Solas's spies infiltrating the organization.

 

b.) the Inquisitor formally disbanded the Inquisition, leaving future efforts against Solas weaker for lack of resources, but more secure due to no chance of Solas's spies infiltrating the organization.

 

And then there's this:

What was the Inquisitor's final goal regarding Solas?

a.) the Inquisitor considers Solas beyond redemption and commits to stopping him at all costs.

 

b.) the Inquisitor believes that Solas is making a tragic mistake and intends to redeem Solas, if possible.

 

If that is not saying us something about the future involvement of Inquisitor, I don't know what else will (well, aside from DLC itself). We're yet to find out in what capacity they'd be involved, but it's rather obvious that their story has not yet ended..

 

If they kill the Inqui before DA4 or give him a nonsense stupid quest off screen , I'm going to fume through every pores.

[ModernAcademic]

If the Anchor was the only thing that made the Inquisitor special, then the Herald of Andraste never would have become the Inquisitor to begin with.  

 

Having a green nite-lite on your hand doesn't make you a good authority figure, in peace or war.

 

THIS

[DeusGoddess5010]

The ancher was for sealing rifts, the rifts are closed so you dont need it. Also it just added plot value, without the ancher the inqusitior is still very important and powerful. Also with the JOW, Decent and then trespasser information you find out and discover its like finding out how the universe works. I mean the inqusitior knows and witness some life changing if not Thedas changing info and insight.

 

I want the inqusitor to return, like she said, she has a world to save...again

 

 

PS I also want a break from the same building a new character from the ground up again over and over. Let bond with my protagonist for atleast on more game or expansion. It is the reason why I was so close to my warden and it broke off clean story wise.

[robertthebard]

Yikes, you really sound rather desperate now... And no - you're not acting what they said it when they said it, considering that many people got the very opposite impression to yours, no matter of their views on Solas. That should perhaps tell you something.
 
Also - this has already been said multiple times: Hawke was initially supposed to be the Inquisitor in DAI. There are many clues suggesting that. They've had to change their plans due to reception of DAII - now that DAI is actually well-received and critically acclaimed (and with the lack of limitations stemming from old-gen) AND with so many things pointing to them wanting to continue Inquisitor's story, there's far less stopping them from experimenting with the format and delivering the story the way they think will work best, which may involve recurring or multiple protagonists in future games.
 
Also - go check the updated Dragon Age Keep. If there were any doubts about continuing with Inquisitor's story, go check the tiles or choices and check their descriptions.

They got a very different impression from mine because they are grasping desperately at anything that gives them the hope that the Inquisitor will be back. They are inventing all sorts of prosthetics, they are delving deep into our own history to justify "but losing an arm doesn't mean their done". These aren't the acts of people that are rationally reacting to what's presented. These are acts of pure desperation, just as this trying to imply that I'm getting desperate, just because I went with what was provided. Solas and the qunari had my organization so full of spies that they tripped over each other. The Qunari spies managed to smuggle explosives into the Winter Palace in a cart full of stuff that I brought. At the end of the game, I sent everyone home and shut down the Inquisition, and then had a little cutscene where we discussed how we'd have to get someone else to deal with it because he knows how we operate. You see, I took that information at face value, instead of running it through the gymnastics required to mean that "No matter how well he knows us, he'll never see us coming now"...

[Sah291]

I view it as even more of a proof that Inquisitor will be back - if they've brought Hawke to DAI simply for unwittingly releasing Corypheus, how can they not bring Inquisitor (in some greater narrative measure) to deal with or save one of his former companions?

Yeah I believe they did likely intend to bring Hawke back to oppose Cory. Because look at the setup. Cory specifically wanted Hawke's blood. Why, because his father was the one who helped imprison him with blood magic, and was helping the Wardens. Ok so personal family history there. Then Hawke is given a choice to side with the Warden who wants to free him as an ally, or the one who doesn't. Cory tricks Hawke and gets free regardless and tells Hawke (through the Warden) how he has gained an ally. Hawke fights Meredith and she has a red lyrium meltdown. Hawke's sibling can end up either a Warden, circle mage, or Templar--look at the factions Cory threatens, the rebel Mages, templars and Wardens. Flemeth makes a prophecy about the Abyss. I could go on. So yeah, I think there is a good chance the IQ shows up in ~some~ form, because there appears to be a major story arc that was planned. They just gave Quizzy a similarly personal set up with Solas.

[BabyPuncher]

No, all player characters are potentially equally powerful and successful.  What the player does to achieve that potential is what makes fro unique playthroughs.

 

No, that's completely wrong and utterly easy to prove. There are protagonists in video games who are failures. No matter how good the player, no matter how hard the player 'works' at it, they are unsuccessful and that's all there is to it.

[Mr.House]

No, all player characters are potentially equally powerful and successful.  What the player does to achieve that potential is what makes fro unique playthroughs.

Eh, Hawke always fails no matter what tho.