367 réponses à ce sujet

[Ariella]

Do we even have any lore on the casting mechanics? Staff seems to be optional - plenty of 'bare-handed' examples.  I think I've heard in DA2 something about non-mages believing that mage can not cast with her hand tied\held (searching for Ser Thrask's girl AFAIK), but that's all. Also note, that it's how they think it was, not a solid fact.  It's not the best idea to take the actual in-game animation as an evidence, but many  gestures I can think of are performed by a single hand (normally right one). I'd say that we don't have any solid evidence that mage-Inq looses his magic along with the hand.  Probably a good time to bother Patrick\David\Mike\Someone on tweeter.

Cassandra says specifically in the prologue to a mage IQ that s/he doesn't need a staff but should have one.

[Aren]

 

 

@leldra

There is no necessary connection between any ability and the methods which are used to acquire it.

 

​Determine the efforts being made in the development of any ability ,their critical process,their understanding as well as  the small steps that lead to it,is what increase the collective  knowledge.

Their understanding is by far more valuable than the product itself,there is indeed always a connection between any ability and the methods used to acquire it,since the questioned methods relying on a knowledge that is valuable as the abilities themselves.

 

 

 

Power acquired as a gift is not less valuable than one acquired any other way. One power may require training, another may not. There is no necessary connection between any power and having to pay for it.

 

Such a construct is inexistent outside of the "inherited power ,such as the case of the nobility" and even in that case i would suggest that is pretty unwise to put someone in power due to blood right and tradition rather than competence and merit.

I'm of the opinion that power acquired as a gift does not exist,it is earned through training being it physical,of study,of meditation,of work,ecc..

Fundamental requirement for it is in any case patience and a little bit of humbleness which can only bring a person far in the accomplishment,without it,being productive in the hopes that something will come from the "heaven"

 (aka Corypheus and company) is quite improbable.

Powers who do not require training  (which can be only the case of a fantasy setting) have their huge flip of coin.

 

That's just a conceit of people who think that power *should* come with a price, of people who think *they* have the right to determine if another has "earned" some power or not. Who says whether I have "earned" something or not? You?

 

Power should come with its relative knowledge which is indeed the case of a power acquired through training,otherwise it was not earned,not because someone said so but because you did nothing to earn and deserve it.

"from great powers comes great responsibilities"

that is why powers are better handled by those who have earned it,step by step not by those who leaded by their own ambition brought to their  demise as well as the one of others.

 

 

It's the same BS in ME with technology. Technology exchange has been part of human civilization since it exists, and nobody ever cares about whether they have "earned" something. 

 

The fact that someone is the beneficial of a technology developed by others doesn't mean that this one possess the understanding of the product.

Sure i can say that i bought a dangerous weapon without understand nothing of the basis of it's physics, now i want to mess things up to "understand" better this "gift",let's just pray that it will not lead to a disaster.

Exactly the same arrogant way of thinking that led 7 magisters to generate the blights and ruin the life of millions in the process,the same way thinking that have trapped the witch for the eternity,the same way of thinking that created the breach.

This way of thinking isn't even remotely to what i will define as wisdom.

 

 

So my Inquisitor is ambitious and wants the power of the Mark. So what? Who are *you* to say she shouldn't? What business is it of anyone else, as long as I don't go about and do things to people with it?

 

Those who made a step greater than their leg and grasping beyond their reach are just reckless and untrustworthy and as a living being that are part of the world it is indeed in everyone interest to fight against those who can be the cause of great disasters.

Which is indeed the case of those who want to experiment with things which they do not understand,being them an Inquisitor with an anchor capable to manipulate the veil or a witch with an old god as a pets.

Sure that i will not wait their comfortable before to act against them.

 

 I do not condemn the ancient magisters one bit for attempting to reach the Black City.

 

The same magister who wanted to achieve godhood to rule like tyrants over the others,to claim a power that would have been used to rule in a world built on slavery that would have been an Elvhenan 2.0 with new "false gods"

Ignorance was what leaded the magister to a place that was beyond their reach and beyond of their possibility,if they went so far it was because someone who was more knowledgeable and powerful than them told how to do so.

Which lead to the same answer,those who are ignorants and use shortcuts while treating dangerous achievement/goals, are a threat for the world.

 

 

 I condemn them for taking its darkness into themselves so that it spread over the world. 

You condemn them for nothing,the spread of the taint was the unpredictable result of their ignorance not something that was done on purpose.

 

 

 But to attempt to reach the Black City as such, that I rather admire, just as I admire the people who were first into space, or to the poles, or those who crossed oceans for the first time. I will always admire their like, no matter how reactionaries try to impose limits on what a human should be able to achieve and where she should reach. And if the likes of the Chantry calls that "the sin of pride", then I'll reply "***** yourself with your backwards-looking ideology, but leave me alone"

 

I fail to grasp where is the similitude between reach the space or the pole also for scientific purpose,with reach the Heaven to achieve the power to rule over the world and enslave others to the old gods religion as zealots dictators would do,because this was the magister goals.

If characters like Solas, Corypheus,The Architect,Morrigan or your Inquisitor (all arrogant mages) will continue to gamble the fate of Thedas into the pursuing of their personal goals then you will better be prepared to face an hell of a resistance,because for sure they will not be kindly waiting for their "ambition" to resolve.

 

 

If you lack understanding how your power works and what are possible consequences of using them, you can't be anything else but reckless while using them.

 

 

 

 

As fools that decided to play with things they didn't understood?

Fools indeed, who killed millions and infected the world.

 

 

 

From what i recall , Aren made argument about learning how thing work and obtaining power by understanding it ,instead just reciving them (ie shortcut) what tends lead to tragedy. Chantry is right in fact, if they pissed omnipotent being they had it coming. 

Yep,i  believe that those who use or are willingly  abuse of shortcuts to obtain power (which is also the path of blood magic) are untrustworthy and  a danger.

It is not valid because no one has the legitimate authority to decide this. 

If you are looking for an "authority" you may as well ask this to the majority of peoples of Thedas or to an higher tribunal made by members of each nation,who will for certain

(unless is leaded by the like of Corypheus)

stop by force any dangerous attempt who can potentially threaten the fate of the established order.

-Such as play with the anchor who is capable to endanger the veil

-drink from the well of sorrow whom will allow to an Evanuris to control someone, or whom knowledge can be put into the hands of some untrustworthy witch of the wilds

-play with the soul of an archdemon which can trigger a blight or can be used for dubious goals from an angry Enavuris.

i say why you should be permitted to endanger the life of so many because of yours ambitions then pretending to not even by fighted? Expect resistance.

[robertthebard]

It is not valid because no one has the legitimate authority to decide this. Your example fails because that's a case of ownership. If Solas said "this is my anchor and I want it back" I wouldn't like it but he'd have a legitimate case. If Solas said "I know this thing and you can't handle it", I would like it even less but again, he'd have a legitimate point, though I'd always speculate if he just wanted a reasonable excuse to deny it to me. On the other hand, if the Chantry says "you may not go to the Black City because it's the Maker's domain", that's a case of illegitimately assuming the authority to judge and control my actions.

The rightful owner took it back.
 

You're using a metaphor of which you do not know if it applies. Also, tears in the veil happen all the time - see DAA - and the world hasn't been destroyed. It's pretty clear, after all we came to know in Trespasser, that the Fade is just another aspect of the one reality.

Let's look at areas where tears in the Veil happen a lot:

The Brecellian Forest. Yep, all those demons possessing trees weren't doing any harm, unless you got close to 'em.
Awakening: Yeah, that wasn't at all a disconcerting chain of events that had you once again wandering around in the Fade.

You see, these actions have consequences, and some of them are quite negative, unless you consider the depopulation of an entire village to be something rather positive? There has yet to be a case of "the Fade is bleeding into the real world" that was positive, in any way. Solas plans to tear down the veil, and destroy the world as we know it, but you think it'll be better somehow if you're the one that actually does it?

[Korva]

This is what I resent highly about this setup:

 

The Inquisitor's role, if not they themselves as a person, was defined by the Mark. By virtue of Trespasser, it came across as a tool given for a task, and then taken away again, and the Inquisitor was never allowed to take ownership of it.

 

I don't think it was defined solely or even mainly by the Anchor, but it was an important part and one of my annoyances with Inquisition was that there was basically no attention paid to it at all. Exploring its powers, effects and drawbacks should have been an ongoing plot point -- even for a character who is freaked out by the mark, because otherwise they risk being turned into a helpless liability again by Corpyheus. The game merely hints at the evolution from "what the bleep is this thing" to "I'm in control", and while knocking Erimond arse over feet and snatching the orb from Corypheus were satisfying moments, there's no buildup and no payoff to make it as intense as it should have been.

 

However, to get that ability and then lose it, that's an insult. It says "Do your task and then give your toy back." It feels as if the Inquisitor is nothing more than a tool.

 

Losing the Anchor is one of the many reasons why I really loathe Trespasser. It basically became ours during the base game, and we shouldn't suddenly be completely helpless again and have it taken away without any chance to regain control. It cheapens the whole thing and feels like one of many slaps in the face to drive home the point of how meaningless the now ex-protagonist is, how little impact she is actually allowed to have. The writers used the Inquisitor to half-heartedly tie up some old plot points while setting up the story they really want to tell, Solas' story, and now that they've done that the Inquisitor and everything she thought she had accomplished is superfluous and must be discarded so silly things like "player choices" or a truly powerful player character don't inconvenience anyone any further. I always gripe about how we're not allowed to play a real character, but calling her a "tool" for both Solas and the writers works very well too. And I resent that immensely.

 

The rightful owner took it back.

 

You mean the one who 1) gave the orb away of his own volition thus losing any claim to it, and 2) explicitly wants to destroy the world with it? He and the notion of being the "rightful owner" can go jump off a cliff. Turning a power meant for evil, by both Corypheus and Solas, against that purpose can be a very satisfying story arc, and that is what I thought the Anchor was supposed to be for. After a whole game spent on undoing the damage caused by the orb and preventing worse from happening, after so much time spent on integrating the mark into who the Inquisitor is on various levels, we were the "rightful owner" more than anyone else.

[Ieldra]

i say why you should be permitted to endanger the life of so many because of yours ambitions then pretending to not even by fighted?

*If* it endangers the lives of many. Some people are always afraid of the unknown and will attempt to prevent others from going there, and when asked why, you'll hear "It's too dangerous", every single time. And then you go and propose measures to make things more safe, and it's never, ever enough for them, because they aren't really concerned about the danger, they think it shouldn't be done at all because of some odd idea that sticking to traditional limitations is good, usually expressed as "nobody should have that ability" or something similar. That's the mindset I'm arguing against. If you argue in favor of that mindset, then all we can do is agree to disagree. In any other case, we might find some common ground.

 

As I see it, walking into the Fade alone presents no big danger. You wouldn't see my Inquisitor attempt to enter the Black City, knowing what happened to Corypheus there. Also, you are wrong: Corypheus did take the darkness into himself, there's some document that says so. It wasn't an accident. My hypothesis is actually that the Blight was part of the power they sought, given how it can be used to take control of people.

[Aren]

*If* it endangers the lives of many. Some people are always afraid of the unknown and will attempt to prevent others from going there, and when asked why, you'll hear "It's too dangerous", every single time. And then you go and propose measures to make things more safe, and it's never, ever enough for them, because they aren't really concerned about the danger, they think it shouldn't be done at all because of some odd idea that sticking to traditional limitations is good, usually expressed as "nobody should have that ability" or something similar. That's the mindset I'm arguing against. If you argue in favor of that mindset, then all we can do is agree to disagree. In any other case, we might find some common ground.

 

As I see it, walking into the Fade alone presents no big danger. You wouldn't see my Inquisitor attempt to enter the Black City, knowing what happened to Corypheus there. Also, you are wrong: Corypheus did take the darkness into himself, there's some document that says so. It wasn't an accident. My hypothesis is actually that the Blight was part of the power they sought, given how it can be used to take control of people.

Without the proper understanding no one should be permitted to accomplish tasks that are beyond of the actual possibility that's why the answer would be in the scenario

"it's too dangerous , is beyond your reach".

Did someone is planning to travel to Jupiter? No one because is a guaranteed failure.

Testing is a vital component of whom someone can acquire the security to accomplish a task,i didn't see any testing done by the magisters into the pursuing of the golden city,i didn't see any testing during the well of sorrow quest,

same with the anchor you just grab the Orb in the hope that nothing bad would have happened,same against Alexius, the Inquisitor challenged him in  the hope that he would have not used the time travel magic and due to luck he didn't send the Inquisitor straight away into a dark hole.

It's really put me on the quote that Wesker said in the Umbrella chronicles

The only thing that can defeat power is more power.

 That is the one constant in this universe. 

However, there is no point in power if it consumes itself.

-Which are indeed the case of the joining(without Avernus understanding it consume your life),

-the dark ritual (because not only the powers of the old god are preserved but his will as well,which means that those powers belongs still to him and he demonstrated to some degree to be capable of mind controlling his new host)

-the anchor which the Inquisitor cannot control and was acquired after a ritual incomplete

-the well of sorrow which brings inside of its owner the will of another

These are not powers these are shortcuts.

The Architect was there,he didn't want the taint,but i will check the documents of Corypheus seems odd that he willingly absorbed the taint, if so then he is more foolish than i thought.

I don't think it was defined solely or even mainly by the Anchor, but it was an important part and one of my annoyances with Inquisition was that there was basically no attention paid to it at all. Exploring its powers, effects and drawbacks should have been an ongoing plot point -- even for a character who is freaked out by the mark, because otherwise they risk being turned into a helpless liability again by Corpyheus. The game merely hints at the evolution from "what the bleep is this thing" to "I'm in control", and while knocking Erimond arse over feet and snatching the orb from Corypheus were satisfying moments, there's no buildup and no payoff to make it as intense as it should have been.

 

 

Losing the Anchor is one of the many reasons why I really loathe Trespasser. It basically became ours during the base game, and we shouldn't suddenly be completely helpless again and have it taken away without any chance to regain control. It cheapens the whole thing and feels like one of many slaps in the face to drive home the point of how meaningless the now ex-protagonist is, how little impact she is actually allowed to have. The writers used the Inquisitor to half-heartedly tie up some old plot points while setting up the story they really want to tell, Solas' story, and now that they've done that the Inquisitor and everything she thought she had accomplished is superfluous and must be discarded so silly things like "player choices" or a truly powerful player character don't inconvenience anyone any further. I always gripe about how we're not allowed to play a real character, but calling her a "tool" for both Solas and the writers works very well too. And I resent that immensely.

 

 

You mean the one who 1) gave the orb away of his own volition thus losing any claim to it, and 2) explicitly wants to destroy the world with it? He and the notion of being the "rightful owner" can go jump off a cliff. Turning a power meant for evil, by both Corypheus and Solas, against that purpose can be a very satisfying story arc, and that is what I thought the Anchor was supposed to be for. After a whole game spent on undoing the damage caused by the orb and preventing worse from happening, after so much time spent on integrating the mark into who the Inquisitor is on various levels, we were the "rightful owner" more than anyone else.

Your argument is less shifted towards the importance of the tool itself but more likely to the narrative approach adopted.

That the Inquisitor story was just meant to be the one of an enabler of someone else.

The problem is not the anchor or its owner  but more likely the fact that the deprivation of such a construct will be used to put the Inquisitor into the oblivion and continue the story of the same characters super mages.

Dragon age suffer a bit in this regard,despite the fact that there are plenty of possibility (many Enavuris and nations to explore) we have always the same people

while the main protagonists fall off-screen,and in this case being deprived of something important.

 

[robertthebard]

I don't think it was defined solely or even mainly by the Anchor, but it was an important part and one of my annoyances with Inquisition was that there was basically no attention paid to it at all. Exploring its powers, effects and drawbacks should have been an ongoing plot point -- even for a character who is freaked out by the mark, because otherwise they risk being turned into a helpless liability again by Corpyheus. The game merely hints at the evolution from "what the bleep is this thing" to "I'm in control", and while knocking Erimond arse over feet and snatching the orb from Corypheus were satisfying moments, there's no buildup and no payoff to make it as intense as it should have been.
 
 
Losing the Anchor is one of the many reasons why I really loathe Trespasser. It basically became ours during the base game, and we shouldn't suddenly be completely helpless again and have it taken away without any chance to regain control. It cheapens the whole thing and feels like one of many slaps in the face to drive home the point of how meaningless the now ex-protagonist is, how little impact she is actually allowed to have. The writers used the Inquisitor to half-heartedly tie up some old plot points while setting up the story they really want to tell, Solas' story, and now that they've done that the Inquisitor and everything she thought she had accomplished is superfluous and must be discarded so silly things like "player choices" or a truly powerful player character don't inconvenience anyone any further. I always gripe about how we're not allowed to play a real character, but calling her a "tool" for both Solas and the writers works very well too. And I resent that immensely.
 
 
You mean the one who 1) gave the orb away of his own volition thus losing any claim to it, and 2) explicitly wants to destroy the world with it? He and the notion of being the "rightful owner" can go jump off a cliff. Turning a power meant for evil, by both Corypheus and Solas, against that purpose can be a very satisfying story arc, and that is what I thought the Anchor was supposed to be for. After a whole game spent on undoing the damage caused by the orb and preventing worse from happening, after so much time spent on integrating the mark into who the Inquisitor is on various levels, we were the "rightful owner" more than anyone else.

So it's much better in the hands of the Inquisitor to accidentally destroy the world? Whether I believe we should be able to stop him or not notwithstanding, at least when he has it, he can actually control it. By the end of Tresspasser, that was becoming a touchy subject for the Inquisitor. As I postulated earlier, there should have been an option to let you keep it, ending in the total destruction of Skyhold, and everyone in it, based entirely on the progression of the Anchor from the beginning to the end. The stabilizing influence was gone, and had been gone for 2 years. It continued on the course that it had been on prior to his interference with it. Sure seems like he's the only one that can really do anything with it, even if it is going to be dire.

However, as the story is presented, the Mark is going to kill you. In fact, as presented, the Mark had previously been killing you, before Solas did whatever he did. Closing the rift and stabilizing the Breach may have affected it, but given what we know now, and how it behaved leading up to the final confrontation, I'd say there's a good chance that the Inquisitor didn't have a week left.

[Ieldra]

-the dark ritual (because not only the powers of the old god are preserved but his will as well,which means that those powers belongs still to him and he demonstrated to some degree to be capable of mind controlling his new host)

I have not seen any evidence that the will of the old god is still active, even less mind controlling anyone.
 

Your argument is less shifted towards the importance of the tool itself but more likely to the narrative approach adopted.
That the Inquisitor story was just meant to be the one of an enabler of someone else.
The problem is not the anchor or its owner  but more likely the fact that the deprivation of such a construct will be used to put the Inquisitor into the oblivion and continue the story of the same characters super mages.
Dragon age suffer a bit in this regard,despite the fact that there are plenty of possibility (many Enavuris and nations to explore) we have always the same people
while the main protagonists fall off-screen,and in this case being deprived of something important.

Actually, that was my complaint as well. As things stand in-world, the Inquisitor can't control the Mark and it would make no sense to attempt to keep it, and there is no time to learn to control it. That's why taking it away makes sense under the conditions presented. I don't have a problem with that. I do mind, however, that the writers set the conditions that way.

[robertthebard]

I have not seen any evidence that the will of the old god is still active, even less mind controlling anyone.
 
Actually, that was my complaint as well. As things stand in-world, the Inquisitor can't control the Mark and it would make no sense to attempt to keep it, and there is no time to learn to control it. That's why taking it away makes sense under the conditions presented. I don't have a problem with that. I do mind, however, that the writers set the conditions that way.

My take on it was that it "picked up where it left off" after Solas wasn't around to influence it any more. I sincerely believe that he had a lot to do with it being stable behind the scenes that they couldn't show us w/out spoiling the whole plot, through the base game. After that influence was removed, the "wards" or whatever began to deteriorate, and then ultimately came down. It's not like this wasn't foreshadowed at the beginning of the game by Cassandra.

[Ariella]

My take on it was that it "picked up where it left off" after Solas wasn't around to influence it any more. I sincerely believe that he had a lot to do with it being stable behind the scenes that they couldn't show us w/out spoiling the whole plot, through the base game. After that influence was removed, the "wards" or whatever began to deteriorate, and then ultimately came down. It's not like this wasn't foreshadowed at the beginning of the game by Cassandra.

 

 

I don't think it was Solas, but I do think it was the Orb. The power probably caused degeneration at a slower rate since the Breach wasn't pushing it, but it would make sense once the Orb was gone, especially since Solas had no way to control the power in any true fashion. If he had, the Orb wouldn't have ended up in Cory's hands in the first place. The power didn't come from Solas but the Orb, and Solas didn't have the strength to do much else.

 

I don't think he was lying at all when he says that he's done everything he can as you're heading up the mountain post tutorial tactical cam fight (it's one of a number of lines you can get so YMMV).

[robertthebard]

I don't think it was Solas, but I do think it was the Orb. The power probably caused degeneration at a slower rate since the Breach wasn't pushing it, but it would make sense once the Orb was gone, especially since Solas had no way to control the power in any true fashion. If he had, the Orb wouldn't have ended up in Cory's hands in the first place. The power didn't come from Solas but the Orb, and Solas didn't have the strength to do much else.
 
I don't think he was lying at all when he says that he's done everything he can as you're heading up the mountain post tutorial tactical cam fight (it's one of a number of lines you can get so YMMV).

I've gotten it, but in retrospect, I'm not sure I'm buying it, any more, any way. Initially I was all in, post Tresspasser, I don't know I'd believe him if he told me grass was green... The only problem I see with it being the orb is that that would have given Cory some kind of power over it, since they'd be linked, and it was his whole intention. Of course, this is an assumption on my part, since we don't really know anything about it other than, to paraphrase Dorian, "you wiggle your fingers at rifts and they close". We know it can open rifts, we've done it maybe 3 times; at the Temple on accident, at Adamant Fortress, and again at the Temple, in Cory.

[Korva]

So it's much better in the hands of the Inquisitor to accidentally destroy the world?

 

There's no reason to suspect that would happen.

 

Whether I believe we should be able to stop him or not notwithstanding, at least when he has it, he can actually control it. By the end of Tresspasser, that was becoming a touchy subject for the Inquisitor.

 

Yes, and IMO that is out-of-the-blue bullsh*t that completely invalidates a good part of Inquisition's storyline, namely the hero's progression from "haplessly affected by some lethal outside power" to "making that power ours and regaining control of our life". It shouldn't have happened this way, and it certainly shouldn't have ended this way, because as it is, it's nothing but a slap in the face.

 

As I postulated earlier, there should have been an option to let you keep it, ending in the total destruction of Skyhold, and everyone in it, based entirely on the progression of the Anchor from the beginning to the end. The stabilizing influence was gone, and had been gone for 2 years. It continued on the course that it had been on prior to his interference with it. Sure seems like he's the only one that can really do anything with it, even if it is going to be dire.

 

Except that wasn't the progression, and Solas didn't do anything whatsoever aside from initially keeping us alive after the Conclave explosion. Stabilizing the Breach stabilized the mark. At no point afterwards did it get out of control or threaten to kill us again -- not when Corypheus used the orb in his attempt to claim the mark, not when we entered the Crossroads, not when Corypheus re-opened the Breach and pushed the orb past its limit and onto the brink of a second devastating explosion. Everything that was done with the mark during Inquisition was entirely the Inquisitor's doing. We were not some hapless puppet that merely danced on its master's strings and collapsed into uselessness when those strings were cut. Trying to retroactively reframe the whole damn game as Solas-this, Solas-that is horrible storytelling.

 

Your argument is less shifted towards the importance of the tool itself but more likely to the narrative approach adopted.

That the Inquisitor story was just meant to be the one of an enabler of someone else.

 

It's both. I enjoyed the Anchor and the idea of having, exploring and mastering such an unusual power -- and I despise the notion that it existed only to make us a pawn in a story that was never ours.

 

The problem is not the anchor or its owner  but more likely the fact that the deprivation of such a construct will be used to put the Inquisitor into the oblivion and continue the story of the same characters super mages.

 

AKA disposable pseudo-protagonist syndrome and the transparent inanity of the claim that "it isn't about the characters but the setting".

[Aren]

I have not seen any evidence that the will of the old god is still active, even less mind controlling anyone.
 

I don't see any ambiguity in the scenario

His will is intact,it is clear since it influence the behaviour of the host

(similar to what Corypheus soul did to janeka/Larius)

He is a completely new whole person when was deprived of it

(or by comparison if he doesn't possess it into the alternate scenario)

When Flemeth contacted him,he immediately used the body of the host to open that eluvian(the old god opened it not Flemeth and neither the boy),he was influencing his mind to the point that in the fade scene he wanted to leave with Flemeth,or at least i remember that he said

"i have to" in the sense tha he wasn't capable to say no to Flemeth since it was the dragon god who was influencing him.

Morrigan refused and to resolve the conflict,Flemeth took it into herself.

He was mind controlling Kieran with his power,he is not a fragment like Mythal is but  the complete soul.

[robertthebard]

There's no reason to suspect that would happen.

It was already out of control at the end. If not for Solas, it could have killed you right there.
 
 

Yes, and IMO that is out-of-the-blue bullsh*t that completely invalidates a good part of Inquisition's storyline, namely the hero's progression from "haplessly affected by some lethal outside power" to "making that power ours and regaining control of our life". It shouldn't have happened this way, and it certainly shouldn't have ended this way, because as it is, it's nothing but a slap in the face.

Really? So all that stuff that Cass dumps on us in Haven about how it's killing us, right after we come out of the cell didn't happen? However, did we ever get control of it, or was control of it taken, and then slipped away when whatever was being done quit being done?
 
 

Except that wasn't the progression, and Solas didn't do anything whatsoever aside from initially keeping us alive after the Conclave explosion. Stabilizing the Breach stabilized the mark. At no point afterwards did it get out of control or threaten to kill us again -- not when Corypheus used the orb in his attempt to claim the mark, not when we entered the Crossroads, not when Corypheus re-opened the Breach and pushed the orb past its limit and onto the brink of a second devastating explosion. Everything that was done with the mark during Inquisition was entirely the Inquisitor's doing. We were not some hapless puppet that merely danced on its master's strings and collapsed into uselessness when those strings were cut. Trying to retroactively reframe the whole damn game as Solas-this, Solas-that is horrible storytelling.

How do you know? Did you have a webcam installed in his quarters to see what he was up to while awake? What did you use to monitor him while he was in the Fade? You see, I don't know that he was doing anything to monitor the Anchor, but I also don't know that he wasn't, and given how easily he takes control of it at the end of Tresspasser, he very easily could have been, behind the scenes, because they couldn't let us "catch" him w/out giving away the plot.
 
 

It's both. I enjoyed the Anchor and the idea of having, exploring and mastering such an unusual power -- and I despise the notion that it existed only to make us a pawn in a story that was never ours.
 
 
 
AKA disposable pseudo-protagonist syndrome and the transparent inanity of the claim that "it isn't about the characters but the setting".

Sorry if you have a hard time with that, but it's what they've been doing since Origins. If that concept doesn't appeal to you, why are you still playing? Inquisition went a long way to demonstrate that Thedas is the star of the show, including all the DLCs. They even went so far as to use it for the name: The Dragon Age Setting is where Thedas comes from, after all. This wasn't some fanfic, or headcanon thing, I think Gaider dumped it on us way back in the day. At the time, he was the lead writer for the series, you'd think he'd know, right?

[Cobra's_back]

Perhaps I will get a lot of hate for this but the Inquisitor really is just a normal guy at the end of the day. Whatever your origin, (right now playing male tal vashoth mage), you were a normal person just trying to get by. The mark changed that. It was what made you necessary for the plotline and was what (ironically) kept you alive because they likely would have executed you otherwise. Whatever Cassandra might claim, the reason you became Inquisitor is because of the mark. Ignoring time spent with companions and as leader, post amputation, you are essentially just a political figurehead. The inquisitor even says, his adventuring days are over. The fact is, without the anchor, you are just another dude/dudette. This is why I personally do not want to play the Inquisitor again next game. Your trump card has been used up and is gone. As an NPC I think it would be cool but for me with the amputation the story is over. The anchor was what made you special.

Cass states that it was because you had been making the decisions all along. If it was the mark only, they could have done it earlier. Your character made the decision to stay behind so that the people made it out of Haven safely. Before that point you were the Herald of Andraste.

 

As for your anchor it is just a tool. You have the same fighting skill set without it. With Cory gone you don't need it anymore.

[ModernAcademic]

There's an optional line of dialog that doesn't appear in the wheel when talking to Cassandra before your nomination as Inquisitor unless you fulfill a lot of the quests available before Haven is destroyed.

In that line, you get a 4th possible answer to Cassandra's question as to why did Corypheus attack your base of operations to go after you. The answer is that your efforts for the Inquisition drew his attention and made him realise you're a potential threat.

 

 

Therefore, what the game is telling you is that it's through your actions that you become special. Without them, you're just the Herald of Andraste.

 

The Anchor -> Herald of Andraste

Your efforts for the Inquisition -> The Inquisitor

[robertthebard]

Cass states that it was because you had been making the decisions all along. If it was the mark only, they could have done it earlier. Your character made the decision to stay behind so that the people made it out of Haven safely. Before that point you were the Herald of Andraste.
 
As for your anchor it is just a tool. You have the same fighting skill set without it. With Cory gone you don't need it anymore.

W/out the mark, and w/out falling out of the Fade rift, you're not the Herald of Andraste. It's cause and effect. You have the mark, and thus you're exactly what they need when they need it. W/out it, you're nobody special. You are in a position to make the decisions because of the mark, that's it.

[robertthebard]

There's an optional line of dialog that doesn't appear in the wheel when talking to Cassandra before your nomination as Inquisitor unless you fulfill a lot of the quests available before Haven is destroyed.
In that line, you get a 4th possible answer to Cassandra's question as to why did Corypheus attack your base of operations to go after you. The answer is that your efforts for the Inquisition drew his attention and made him realise you're a potential threat.
 
 
Therefore, what the game is telling you is that it's through your actions that you become special. Without them, you're just the Herald of Andraste.
 
The Anchor -> Herald of Andraste
Your efforts for the Inquisition -> The Inquisitor

Except that these aren't separate. W/out one, you can't be the other. In fact, if not for the mark, you're a charred corpse in the pile, and that's it.

[BubbleDncr]

Well, according to Solas, the Inquisitor who he romanced/was good friends with was unique and special enough to make him slightly hesitant about his plans to kill everyone. Which is probably one of the few things from DA:O, DA2, and DA:I that will have any effect at all on the plot of DA4 (characterization of the antagonist). And that was based entirely on the Inquisitor's actions, not the Anchor.

 

In which case I would say the Inquisitor without the Anchor is special is the same way Steve Rogers pre-super soldier serum is special.

[Cobra's_back]

W/out the mark, and w/out falling out of the Fade rift, you're not the Herald of Andraste. It's cause and effect. You have the mark, and thus you're exactly what they need when they need it. W/out it, you're nobody special. You are in a position to make the decisions because of the mark, that's it.

Mark = Herald of Andraste

Your actions = Inquisitor

 

After the job is finished you don't need the anchor anymore. As for being a nobody??? You saved the world. HOF saved the world. Hawk save a city. That is not a nobody. 

[nOrio_26]

You have a key on your parm to close lots of doors of jail(in whitch many demons are there), doesn't make you a leader. You're nobody but a guard.

 

You became an Inquisitor by your own action.

[DWareFan]

The entire point of the story is that the inquisitor makes him/herself into what he/she becomes.  You need the anchor to close rifts.  It take courage even with the anchor to face down rifts and demons and mages and templars and everyone else who is trying to kill you.  It takes a good heart to help people.  It takes principles to do the right thing.  That is what makes the inquisitor, not the anchor.  Listen closely to the story.  They kept your PC around to close that giant rift.  You chose to stay to help.  Your actions made you inquisitor not the anchor.  Yeah, probably repeating what everyone already said but I was too lazy to read it and I have a headache.  I just can't understand posts like this.

 

Also, the warden was nothing special nor was Hawke.  They are self made people.

[robertthebard]

Mark = Herald of Andraste
Your actions = Inquisitor
 
After the job is finished you don't need the anchor anymore. As for being a nobody??? You saved the world. HOF saved the world. Hawk save a city. That is not a nobody.

Here's the actual progression:

Mark = Herald = in a position to be what they need, when they need it = making decisions because you're what they need = Inquisitor.

W/out the Mark, you're not surviving the explosion at the Temple of Sacred Ashes, hence, nobody. You are a charred corpse on the pile. However, assuming you were outside the blast radius, do you think they're looking at you twice to be the leader of the Inquisition w/out the Mark, or are you another grunt practicing at Haven all day? The only "special snowflake" qualities you have that qualify you to even be in the inner circle is the Mark, and frankly, the only reason you're the de facto leader of the Inquisition prior to becoming the Inquisitor is "Player Agency".

[Cobra's_back]

Here's the actual progression:

Mark = Herald = in a position to be what they need, when they need it = making decisions because you're what they need = Inquisitor.

W/out the Mark, you're not surviving the explosion at the Temple of Sacred Ashes, hence, nobody. You are a charred corpse on the pile. However, assuming you were outside the blast radius, do you think they're looking at you twice to be the leader of the Inquisition w/out the Mark, or are you another grunt practicing at Haven all day? The only "special snowflake" qualities you have that qualify you to even be in the inner circle is the Mark, and frankly, the only reason you're the de facto leader of the Inquisition prior to becoming the Inquisitor is "Player Agency".

That is your opinion. Others see it differently. The mark is just a tool. A war hero uses tools. He/she is not a special snowflake because he/she uses tools. The tool doesn't do your thinking for you. You risk your life to save others. That is what makes a hero. 

 

He is still the hero who saved the world.

[robertthebard]

That is your opinion. Others see it differently. The mark is just a tool. A war hero uses tools. He/she is not a special snowflake because he/she uses tools. The tool doesn't do your thinking for you. You risk your life to save others. That is what makes a hero. 
 
He is still the hero who saved the world.

It's not an opinion, it's fact. W/out the Mark, they're not looking at you twice. W/out the Mark you are not "just what we needed when we needed it most", so you're not even the Herald. W/out the Mark, you cannot affect rifts, nor can you close the Breach. These are the things that make you special enough to be considered the Herald, which leads to you being in a position to lead. W/out it, you're dead, or back to your duties with the Carta, or off being a rebel mage, no matter which way you may have voted, or on your way back to the Marches, or where ever you were as a Qunari. You're not in the inner circle making decisions that shape Thedas, because w/out the Mark, there's no reason for them to ever look at you.