459 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Both gay romances in ME3, as well as making bi when he wasnt in the previous ones. 

 

I dont have a problem with gay characters in games, Dorian was actually one of the better characters in DAI. Traynor at least had some character, but Cortez's entire character was "HEY LOOK AT ME I HAD A HUSBAND AND HES DEAD! DID I MENTION HE WAS MY HUSBAND?!?!?!?!" They were pandering to the LGBT community pretty hard.

 

About as much as Carth Onasai was pandering to the heterosexual community. Not, mind you, that the LGBT community is synonymous with SJW in the first place.

[Andres Hendrix]

Red herring? It's the substance of the dispute. You say that this is a moral issue, but you're unable to say why. I don't see the relevance of morality to wearing bikinis in socially inappropriate settings; it's a matter of pure social convention, and nothing more. Some people would claim otherwise, but that's because their moral theories are non-rational. There's nothing wrong with a non-rational moral theory, of course, but I don't have to take such a theory's claims seriously as a non-adherent. (Edit: the most common form of such irrationality is conflating morality with social convention... though you can go all the way and say that it's all social convention.)

And hey, what's with all the funny font work, anyway? It looks really odd when editing unformatted, which is the only way to do this on mobile.

You mean that "don't wear a bikini to the office if you want to be taken seriously" isn't sound practical advice? Really? For me to be wrong about that being sound practical advice, I'd have to, you know, actually be wrong about that being sound practical advice. So, make the case. Why is this bad advice?

Or are you proceeding from some moral theory where sound practical advice about anything that can be considered self-expression is simply impossible because it infringes upon... self-actualization, or some such? I'm guessing here, since you seem to be just assuming that your reasoning is obvious.

What's a cluster b personality, anyway? I'd google it, but I figure your explanation will be more entertaining. And... dialectic? Seriously?

That's simply untrue. I've rejected certain unfounded assumptions you've made, and asked for their foundations. You've been unable or unwilling to supply any.

Yep. And whether she's just the model, or just the model/actress/singer, she's still irrelevant to the topic. Will this be the final time I have to explain that to you?

The "substance of the 'dispute' " is shifting the topic to where morality itself comes from is it?  You made up the office thing yourself, it has got nothing to do with the context of the game. I already explained why it is a moral situation, three times. Again, I corrected what you said, that Joosten was "just a model", the relevance was that you were wrong for saying so. "the most common form of such irrationality is conflating morality with social convention... though you can go all the way and say that it's all social convention" It's more like you pulled that out of your ass.

[Vapaa]

 

They were pandering to the LGBT community pretty hard.

 

So LGBT people are the only public to which it's bad to pander to, and everyone else is fine ?

[Karma_Joy]

An anime space opera with Jack Bauer voicing half of the characters!

[AlanC9]

The "substance of the 'dispute' " is shifting the topic to where morality itself comes from is it? 

Hey, you were the one who tried to make morality an issue here. If you want to just drop the topic you can go ahead and do that, but if you want to keep the issue going you're going to have to come up with sensible reasons.

You made up the office thing yourself, it has got nothing to do with the context of the game. I already explained why it is a moral situation, three times.

Well, you made an assertion that saying anything to anyone about their self-expression raises a moral issue. That's not an explanation. Explanations have to, you know, explain stuff. Why is it a moral issue to tell someone that what she's doing is a bad idea? I'd consider it somewhat immoral not to warn her, actually, so to that extent I suppose I agree with you that there's a moral issue here -- just not the one you've been talking about.

And the example does have something to do with the game. Inappropriate attire looks silly. Quiet looks silly. You like silly, so this doesn't bother you. But I only like silly sometimes, not all the time.

Again, I corrected what you said, that Joosten was "just a model", the relevance was that you were wrong for saying so.

And, again, I acknowledged the correction the moment you made it. And repeated that several times now, since you keep bringing it up for some reason. Once more won't hurt; yes, Joosten was just a model/singer/VA, instead of just a model. I didn't find this of any significance the first time, and I still don't. Why is it significant?

"the most common form of such irrationality is conflating morality with social convention... though you can go all the way and say that it's all social convention" It's more like you pulled that out of your ass.

I'd argue with this, but as written it doesn't make enough sense to disagree with. What were you trying to say?

[AlanC9]

So LGBT people are the only public to which it's bad to pander to, and everyone else is fine ?

No, I'm pretty sure it's bad to pander to women and racial minorities too.

[FKA_Servo]

No, I'm pretty sure it's bad to pander to women and racial minorities too.

 

They need to focus on their hardcore male core gamer demographic.

[Seboist]

Both gay romances in ME3, as well as making bi when he wasnt in the previous ones. 

 

I dont have a problem with gay characters in games, Dorian was actually one of the better characters in DAI. Traynor at least had some character, but Cortez's entire character was "HEY LOOK AT ME I HAD A HUSBAND AND HES DEAD! DID I MENTION HE WAS MY HUSBAND?!?!?!?!" They were pandering to the LGBT community pretty hard.

 

When it comes to BW games, it's more pandering to a vocal minority of straight males who want to see girl on girl action and FF.net reading straight females with a yaoi fetish than it is with actual LGBT.

 

This whole disingenuous blabber about "inclusivity" and the rest is the "I read playboy for the articles" of the BSN. Interesting how it tends to only apply to their specific fetish and not to other kinds of "inclusivity" like race(why no calls for a black chick to romance?), ethnicity,etc.

[goishen]

It would be the greatest rule of cool game ever, and the tears of the fanbase would be delicious.

--------

Kojima is a great ideas man, but ideasmen make poor substitutes for every other job required to make a game.

 

 

Look at Brad McQuaid.

 

*shaking head*  

 

EDIT :  Ha!  And ****'s still going down!   HA!  I love it.   

[Oni Changas]

We were playing as Jenkins the whole time since Arrival. TIM and Saren are still alive in a vegetative state and we'd have more ****** and ass shots. Also naked Thane mission.

 

Saren would be Liquid Spectre

"Punished" Jamoke Shepard = Jenkins

Big Bawls Shepard = Shepard

Involver Asari (Liara) = Triple agent loyal to Shepard

Garrus becomes a cyborg badass (half his face is implanted too!)

Joker = Otacon.

 

 

 

An anime space opera with Jack Bauer voicing half of the characters!

"Tell me where the bomb is or I'll cut your balls off and send them to a krogan!"

[Oni Changas]

When it comes to BW games, it's more pandering to a vocal minority of straight males who want to see girl on girl action and FF.net reading straight females with a yaoi fetish than it is with actual LGBT.

 

This whole disingenuous blabber about "inclusivity" and the rest is the "I read playboy for the articles" of the BSN. Interesting how it tends to only apply to their specific fetish and not to other kinds of "inclusivity" like race(why no calls for a black chick to romance?), ethnicity,etc.

Or maybe, just maybe some of us are mature enough to not give two flying ****s about fanservice? I mean, I don't mind seeing Mirandass but it's not game breaking or anything if they stopped with it. It's just annoying when you have characters who are turned up to 11 like that. For Cortez though, once you get past that stage and he and James start bro-ing off then he feels a lot more natural. Traynor and the EDI **** is just as bad if not worse because it gets overdone in Citadel dlc. Cut that nonsense.

[Oni Changas]

The Wiseman council is an old anti-semitic conspiracy theory about the Jews secretly running the world BS. The fact that Kojima put that crap in the game is at troubling. 

Wisemen's Committee was made up of Russian, Chinese, and American men.

[CronoDragoon]

This whole disingenuous blabber about "inclusivity" and the rest is the "I read playboy for the articles" of the BSN. Interesting how it tends to only apply to their specific fetish and not to other kinds of "inclusivity" like race(why no calls for a black chick to romance?), ethnicity,etc.

 

You mean like when people got upset after finding out Vivienne wasn't an option?

[Seboist]

You mean like when people got upset after finding out Vivienne wasn't an option?

 

You sure that wasn't simply another case of them wanting to bone anything in the game as opposed to wanting a black waifu? I've never seen any ethno/racial request threads akin to the usual yuri/yaoi ones.

[Dean_the_Young]

You sure that wasn't simply another case of them wanting to bone anything in the game as opposed to wanting a black waifu? I've never seen any ethno/racial request threads akin to the usual yuri/yaoi ones.

 

Possibly because the LGBT threads are more common, but also possibly because you ignored what there was. The do, and have, occurred.

[Dean_the_Young]

No, I'm pretty sure it's bad to pander to women and racial minorities too.

 

Not the white male minority, I wager.

[pdusen]

You sure that wasn't simply another case of them wanting to bone anything in the game as opposed to wanting a black waifu? I've never seen any ethno/racial request threads akin to the usual yuri/yaoi ones.

Then you need to look harder.

[KaiserShep]

You sure that wasn't simply another case of them wanting to bone anything in the game as opposed to wanting a black waifu? I've never seen any ethno/racial request threads akin to the usual yuri/yaoi ones.

Why can't it be both?

[Sanunes]

My position before was "let BioWare make the game BioWare wants to", but after being shown a few hours of Metal Gear Solid V yesterday my opinion is that it would divide the people playing the game even more.  From what I saw in the game in about three hours of picked content the things I disliked about Mass Effect seemed to be happening more frequently in Metal Gear Solid.  Now do I think everyone would dislike the direction of the game of course not, but at the same time I think it would have the same impact on the people playing the game as the endings of Mass Effect 3.

[RatThing]

https://www.youtube....h?v=VQERdXvKTnI

 

This is some real high-brow art right here. Clearly an artist expressing his deepest emotions in the way a business like BioWare wouldn't understand. All BioWare understands is fanservice, and appealing to the lowest common denominator.

 

 

 

Also:



This is just a taste of what would happen if Mass Effect had Kojima on-staff.

 

Oh brother...       . 

 

Deliver us from evil.

[o Ventus]

So LGBT people are the only public to which it's bad to pander to, and everyone else is fine ?

 

Pandering to anybody is bad. No group is more or less special than any other or deserving of any kind of unnecessary special attention.

[goishen]

Then why have straight white males been pandered to for all this time, and why do they continue to demand that they be pampered to?

[o Ventus]

Then why have straight white males been pandered to for all this time, and why do they continue to demand that they be pampered to?

 

Every time I see or hear "straight white males", I want to cut something. It's unbelievable how it's okay to demonize one demographic, but if you do it to another, it's decried as racism, homophobia, misogyny, or whatever other negative adjective is the word of the day. Unlike what feminists and social justice warriors would tell you, white heterosexual people are not. in fact, Satan, nor are we the cause of the world's problems.

 

Anyway, "straight white males" aren't pandered to by anybody who isn't a pornographer. 9 times out of 10, neither is anyone else.

[Ahglock]

Can people define pandering. Im curious what it means to different people. It might help determine where people are coming from instead of just calling everyone a SJW or racist/sexist/homophobe.

[Vapaa]

Every time I see or hear "straight white males", I want to cut something. It's unbelievable how it's okay to demonize one demographic, but if you do it to another, it's decried as racism, homophobia, misogyny, or whatever other negative adjective is the word of the day. Unlike what feminists and social justice warriors would tell you, white heterosexual people are not. in fact, Satan, nor are we the cause of the world's problems.

 

Anyway, "straight white males" aren't pandered to by anybody. 9 times out of 10, neither is anyone else.

 

Nobody ever said that, it's just that games are more often than not aimed at that demographic, so developpers put things that they think will appeal to that demographic like omnisexual blue alien babes or eye -rolling buttshots.

 

And that's pandering, but it's almost never called out like it's done for other demographics.