40 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Greetings all. Prior to Trespasser and Patch 10, this is my Necromancer setup.

1. Energy Barrage
2. Immolate
3. Fade Step
4. Wall of Fire
5. Chain Lightning
6. Fire Mine
7. Walking Bomb
8. Barrier

All the skills are upgraded with the exception of Energy Barrage, because Energy Barrage's upgrade is crap. As you can see, it was essentially a Pyromancer with Walking Bomb and some other spells. It is very effective though, I won't deny that.

 

Having said that, I am wondering if I should change this setup with the changes to the Necromancer specialization or should I keep it this way ? Should I replace Immolate with Spirit Mark ? Or do something else ?

 

I mean, having wisps pew-pewing together with you sounds fun but the damage-to-cost ratio of Spirit Mark is inferior to that of Immolate. Plus, they lowered Immolate's mana cost by 10 and made it very spammable now.

 

Then there's Horror. Now you can have it as a skill that keeps enemies in one spot until their health hits below 25%. The problem is that Horror costs quite a lot and it does nothing against enemies immune to panic.

 

Or should I do something else. My intuition tells me that this build is pretty much perfect but I am looking for suggestion to make it better.

 

Cheers & have a nice day.

[Realyn]

To be honest, I prefer Spirit Mark over Immolate once I have enough mana regen going on for multiple reasons;

 

• Too much fire gets boring;
• Too much fire makes you run into resistance problems with trials turned on, especially if you run with a fire staff (^%$# you, you stupid massive barrier spellbinders with 100% fire resistance! );
• Burning damage is often wasted by stuff dying and/or being overwritten by the next Immolate, wisps don't disappear on target death;
• You already have enough AoE for the standard mob packs, but 'lack' single-target dps for tough mobs;
• It's just fun to be a machine gun.

 

Assuming single target, Immolate tops out at I believe, 1000% weapon damage for single target (400% + 8 sec burning, upgraded for damage) while wisps do 100% weapon damage per shot (and in 30 seconds it should fire more then 10 shots unless you fight weak mobs). And it's Spirit damage, which is rarely resisted in the game. You can spam Immolate for 25+35+45 mana or so if you take the no cooldown upgrade, but that gives you 3x 300% weapon damage + one full burn duration of 600% damage for a full mana bar (lower then a single unupgraded Fire Mine).

 

In short, I prefer Spirit Mark (if you have good mana regen in your party) for the fact that you can better focus on a single tough enemy instead of groups. For AoEing weak groups, Immolate takes the cake. But I don't feel like I need that, considering my other skills.

 

And I don't know if it's been fixed, but the burning effect of Fire Mine didn't overwrite Immolate's/Wall of Fire burning effect and didn't stack either, some patches ago. This wasted a good chunk of fire damage unless you put the Fire Mine DoT on first and didn't mix 'm up during your rotation. This sucked arse. Spirit damage DoTs do stack however.

 

Note that I'm just typing all this from my personal experiences, not from any empirical evidence from testing or anything. All I can say is, pony up the 345 gold, respec and try it out for yourself. 

 

Also, Horror is a shitty skill for it's cost.

 

 

[ottffsse]

If there is one skill on that least which is sub optimal compared to other options its chain lightning. I would try spirit mark or winters grasp with that 1000% damage upgrade as alternative. You can chill step through targets to set them up for winters grasp. Mana wise it is not such a jump. I mean you have enough aoe to drop chain lightning and use a lightning staff for lightning damage with energy barrage. That way way your set up in your damage as even your weekest element {lightning) is compensated by a strong skill of energy barrage and your staves normal attack.

Of course chain lightning followed by a walking bomb explosions can put targets to sleep but shouldn't they be dead?

[Realyn]

If there is one skill on that least which is sub optimal compared to other options its chain lightning. I would try spirit mark or winters grasp with that 1000% damage upgrade as alternative. You can chill step through targets to set them up for winters grasp. Mana wise it is not such a jump. I mean you have enough aoe to drop chain lightning and use a lightning staff for lightning damage with energy barrage. That way way your set up in your damage as even your weekest element {lightning) is compensated by a strong skill of energy barrage and your staves normal attack.

 

Oh lol, I missed the Chain Lightning on that build. I've never used it in... well, any mage build post-Skyhold. Only grabbed it to get to some passives on certain builds, but never put it on my bars.

[TevinterMagister]

Sigil of the Great Bear was the missing link for my Necro, it allowed me to get the necessary burst and control I felt lacking due to skill cost of chaining Static Cage, WB and Fire Mine one after another without waiting for mana regen. The new Winter's Grasp and Blizzard toggles are pretty good too with Blizzard (Winter Winds) the primer for Winter's Grasp (Winter's Ruin). My playthrough is over now with this character and my last battles was fought with WB, Static Cage, Fire Mine and Energy Barrage as main abilites. My gear setup gave me 150% crit damage, 75% crit chance and 62% attack.

[ottffsse]

Once I have the ability points I am gonna try to make a crack/speedo necro again for close combat. All you need is adequate defence and some mobility. Fade step, mind blast with cc cleanse , barrier , ice mine, and For damage energy barrage , flame array , wb, 8th skill? Focus? Key Passives are mana surge, clean burn, gathering storm to cast these low cool down spells none stop. Amulet of renewal (Ishmael fight edl) for mana regen . or master cool down amulet with extra mana/ stamina gear. You should be able to cast a wb or two then every 7? Seconds with the passives and keep everything knocked down or frozen. Things that do get close get nuked by flaming array.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

So is Chain Lightning crap or something ? If so, what is the best Storm Spell (apart from Barrage) ? Is it Static Cage ?

 

I know and understand the awesomeness of the Cage but it costs 5 skill points to unlock its full potential whereas Chain Lightning only requires a maximum of 2 skill points to unlock its full potential.

 

Seriously, the only thing keeping me away from Cage is the amount of skill points you need for it.

[TevinterMagister]

Static cage is either mid-endgame or early-mid if you focus solely on the Storm tree, and I did use Chain lightning alot during my playthrough. I don't think it's a bad skill when you are in the early-mid part and lack skillpoints for much else. I was mostly Storm + Necro because it's cheap on skillpoints and Energy Barrage allows you to mix in a frost or fire attack by switching staff.

[Bigdawg13]

After I thought about it...yeah Chain Lightning kind of sucks, even for Necromancers.  I don't even like it early game.  Immolate does a better job IMHO.  The face that immolate's base damage is higher, and the skill is cheaper, is reason enough to ignore Chain Lightning.  I'd recommend Energy Barrage instead.

 

I really like, for Necromancers, all 3 Necromancer skills.  There are a LOT of ways to bypass the mana-gate due to high-cost skills.  But the fact you can deposit 3 sources of spirit dot damage is just amazing.  And the extra helper from spirit mark can really help out IMHO.

 

Every Necromancer I play, has the following:   Fire Wall, all 3 Necro skills, and Energy Barrage.  That's a total of 5 skills giving 3 points left over.  If you can get Sigil of the Bear, I'd pick up Static Cage+ too. 

 

Sequence:

Send tank in, let them swarm him.  Cast WB, detonate WB manually (knockdown + spread + explosion damage).  Now cast Static Cage and Firewall.  Cast other necro skills now and watch the fireworks go pop pop pop. 

 

Before sigil of the bear, you can get a "free" WB by casting energy barrage while your WB attack is still en route.  Detonate it, and then cast it again instantly.  Now everyone has WB on them.  Oh the pretty show...oh so pretty....and pretty...

I guess I'm rambling.  If you pick up what I suggested above, you still have 2 skills left.  Immolate is a cheap skill and you already have it.   You can replace it when you get to really high levels.  Then probably mark of the rift.

 

Later on you can experiment with swapping out immolate for something.  I'd consider a frost spell like ice mine for passive ice armor.  Maybe fire mine.  *shrug*  Probably want something that gives you more single-target damage IMHO.

[ottffsse]

Well if you got the points you can't go wrong with static cage. It's a great spell, it can immobilize a tough group of enemies for your party to pick apart. And amplify damage on bosses, except lightning dragons. There is arguably no better spell for full team play, its one if the best. I usually pick it up as I take conductive current, lightning bolt which I don't use, gathering storm {another great passiv) and finally static cage and upgrade.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Based on feedback, I have changed the Necromancer setup to:

1. Energy Barrage
2. Fade Step
3. Wall of Fire
4. Winter's Grasp
5. Fire Mine
6. Static Cage
7. Walking Bomb
8. Barrier

I replaced Chain Lightning with Static Cage and Immolate with Winter's Grasp. I find the 1000% damage on Winter's Ruin to be absolutely irresistible.

[PapaCharlie9]

Based on feedback, I have changed the Necromancer setup to:

1. Energy Barrage
2. Fade Step
3. Wall of Fire
4. Winter's Grasp
5. Fire Mine
6. Static Cage
7. Walking Bomb
8. Barrier

I replaced Chain Lightning with Static Cage and Immolate with Winter's Grasp. I find the 1000% damage on Winter's Ruin to be absolutely irresistible.

 

That's a powerful damage dealing/CC build, but barely qualifies as Necro. I mean, replace Walking Bomb with Spirit Blade and you've got everyone's KE build.  Well, except for Wall of Fire, which does synergize with Blind Terror via Panic, but also for DoT with Static Cage.

 

Kind of all over the place in terms of skill point amortization. You have to go deep into Storm to get Static Cage, but you get nothing else out of that except passives. Maybe that's a good thing.  I guess the passives between EB and Static Cage aren't that bad.

 

That's like a 23+ point build, right? 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

That's a powerful damage dealing/CC build, but barely qualifies as Necro. I mean, replace Walking Bomb with Spirit Blade and you've got everyone's KE build.

 

Kind of all over the place in terms of skill point amortization. You have to go deep into Storm to get Static Cage, but you get nothing else out of that except passives. Maybe that's a good thing.

 

That's like a 23+ point build, right? 

 

Yes it is a 23+ build but fortunately, I am a completionist freak so...I usually reach max level while doing Jaws of Hakkon and Descent, both of which I do before the Arbor Wilds mission...

 

If Bioware did not buff Winter's Grasp up that much I would have taken Spirit Mark over it. Since they fixed Mana Surge, I always pick it up so taking Winter's Grasp over Spirit Mark was a no brainer. Seeing 2K+ cold damage is deliciously frosty.

[TevinterMagister]

That's a powerful damage dealing/CC build, but barely qualifies as Necro. I mean, replace Walking Bomb with Spirit Blade and you've got everyone's KE build.  Well, except for Wall of Fire, which does synergize with Blind Terror via Panic, but also for DoT with Static Cage.

And if you replaced WB with Spirit Blade wouldn't that barely qualify as a KE build? I know I've said before that picking KE and not playing it like the melee playstyle it was designed to support kinda misses the point of picking that spec. I think I have to take back that statement.

[Bigdawg13]

And if you replaced WB with Spirit Blade wouldn't that barely qualify as a KE build? I know I've said before that picking KE and not playing it like the melee playstyle it was designed to support kinda misses the point of picking that spec. I think I have to take back that statement.

Not quite. Knight Enchanter's theme is their spirit blade. Necromancers put spirits in corpses to aid them. A better comparison of a KE without spirit blade is a necromancer without Spirit Mark. Until 1.10 no one batted an eye because spirit mark was so bad. But now it's hard to imagine one without it.

[TevinterMagister]

Not quite. Knight Enchanter's theme is their spirit blade. Necromancers put spirits in corpses to aid them. A better comparison of a KE without spirit blade is a necromancer without Spirit Mark. Until 1.10 no one batted an eye because spirit mark was so bad. But now it's hard to imagine one without it.

WB was always the main attraction for me, I can easily skip spirit mark post 1.10. My gameplay experience was that once I had some stacks of spirits marks, the battle was already won. My point was that I was wrong about playing a spec for it's actives when what I was looking for was in it's passives.

[Bigdawg13]

We're arguing semantics now. What does "qualify" mean? I believe there is a thematic component that should be considered.

[draken-heart]

WB was always the main attraction for me

 

Honestly, for a Necromancer, I wonder why in the world have walking bomb. Aren't necromancers supposed to be more about raising the dead rather than blowing them up?

[Inverse_Twilight]

Here is a link to my build for a mage that I just made. I was going for a more balanced/Crowd Control type build for my soon to be Necromancer.

 

http://www.rpg-gamin...31b44853362b701

 

For the new toggles upgrades I am going to pick Winter's Ruin and Wisps of the Fallen. Everything else that is upgraded has the original upgrade.

[RiverHillBlue1]

Here is my current level 25 Dorian build, but also how I used my previous Necro Inquisitor:

 

1.  Fade step/mana re-gen upgrade - Get out of jail free and get all my mana back.

2.  Energy Barrage - Very damaging and gets crits to proc Flashpoint.  Last thing I fire off with my Spirit when I die.

3.  Walking Bomb/Virulent upgrade - Big source of DPS, DoT for my Spirit to pick Dorian up off the turf.  

4.  Static Cage/Lightning Cage upgrade - Cluster enemies together for the inevitable follow up...

5.  Barrier/5 sec upgrade - Good to have in the arsenal on Nightmare.  Helps me re-gen my health after defying death.

6.  Immolate/Damage upgrade - This could be replaced with Fire Mine, but it doesn't break Winter Stillness and is instant.  It always seems available too.

7.  Horror/Despair upgrade - I know, not the greatest, but the DoT gives me another tool for self reviving (I take pride in not needing allies/potions for that).

8a. Firewall/Lasting Flames upgrade - More panicking, more burning.  Could take the place of Horror when 8b is acquired.

8b. Aegis of the Rift -  Obviously Inquisitor only, very good for DLC on Nightmare.

 

Equipment -

+1% Heal on Hit is non-negotiable.  Need it to revive consistently.   Assists Death Siphon with health re-gen, negating the reliance on potions.

+20% Damage dealt/+200% Damage received.  Could be replaced with the 30/300, but I don't see those very often.  It's a "deal with the devil" build.

+10% Attack/-50% Heal Sigil.  Plenty of healing to go around, give me the offense.

 

It's not uncommon to get one-shot with the Berserk Masterwork on Nightmare, but it really doesn't matter as long someone else lives.  I can get all my health back without potions.  I also notice using a Lightning staff builds guard when triggering Sleep/Nightmare combos.  Can anyone confirm this exactly?  I also haven't messed with Spirit Mark since the patch; I disliked it pre-patch so my current build is without it.

 

I know this isn't a revolutionary build or anything, but I wanted to share what I consider a very solid and fun Nightmare build.

[TevinterMagister]

Honestly, for a Necromancer, I wonder why in the world have walking bomb. Aren't necromancers supposed to be more about raising the dead rather than blowing them up?

It's their take on Corpse Explosion, a common spell in many games featuring Necromancers, Fear represented by Horror is of course another one yet it is the least popular. Unfortunately we can't be the corpse herder most expect when they think of necromancy and instead they decided to do it differently. The problem is that its implementation is not very good and thanks to the latest toggles you end up with little orbs being the better alternative in terms of gameplay (the AI controlling Dorian) and dps. Had they just kept Animate Dead from DA:O it would serve the Necromancer theme better if that is what you were looking for.

[draken-heart]

It's their take on Corpse Explosion, a common spell in many games featuring Necromancers, Fear represented by Horror is of course another one yet it is the least popular. Unfortunately we can't be the corpse herder most expect when they think of necromancy and instead they decided to do it differently. The problem is that its implementation is not very good and thanks to the latest toggles you end up with little orbs being the better alternative in terms of gameplay (the AI controlling Dorian) and dps. Had they just kept Animate Dead from DA:O it would serve the Necromancer theme better if that is what you were looking for.

 

What we have is not truly a necromancer. It is a mish-mash of the spells they wanted, but did not fit into the schools/trees they had already.

[zeypher]

The entire necromancer tree is basically spirit tree from the previous games.

[StarFlorge]

Just one note to the whole chain lighting suck, it really doesn't when chain lighting makes every single energy barrage crit and chain lighting crit, It's kinda a lot of fun, but now i think with the new changes the necromancer tree prefers to go with the fire tree more, since panicked enemys stay panicked to 20% hp, making a necro build atm. necromancer tree if used well i fin atm is if not the most powerful spec for mages, but thats just my opinion

[Realyn]

Just one note to the whole chain lighting suck, it really doesn't when chain lighting makes every single energy barrage crit and chain lighting crit, It's kinda a lot of fun, 

 

To be honest, I find it gimmicky and not at all fun. More power to those who like it, but I feel like you're basically cheating the system by exploiting a mechanic which is not supposed to work that way. But just because a skill 'works' in conjunction with a specific item by exploiting said item's mechanics, by no means makes the skill itself good.