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MEA's Plot is best served by making Refusal canon


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#1
Former_Fiend

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I've talked about this in other threads, but I figured since this is the new fad, what the hell, I'll take my swing at it. But first, I want to preface this a little, get a couple things out of the way, just to be clear.
 
I have gone on record as saying I believe the expedition to Andromeda should leave the Milky Way before the ending to ME3. I think that is the most logistically sound way of handling this game from a design stand point, I think it is perfectly logical from a story telling stand point, and I believe that any number of justifications can be created to make it work and fit consistently with the setting.
 
I also believe that canonizing one of the endings is the absolute worst thing BioWare could do with MEA, and I will not purchase or play this game if that is the route they decide to go with.
 
And finally, I would like to say that I do not care for the Refusal ending. I have never chosen it and I do not endorse it's message or moral. This is not me picking the ending I like most(High EMS Paragon Destroy, for the record) and arguing that it's the best. This is me taking an objective look at the facts as we know them and forming an assessment based on that.
 
Having said that, and for the benefit of those who lack the imagination to conceive of a way MEA can work without the expedition leaving after the events of ME3, I would like to explain why, should they make the decision to canonize one of the endings, that Refusal would be their best option.
 
Essentially, it comes down to one word; stakes. In any other ending, even a low-ems Destroy ending where the Galaxy has entered into a dark age, the simple fact remains that in any other ending than Refusal, life and civilization continues to exist – and in some cases, thrive –  in the Milky Way. If we fail to establish a foot hold in Andromeda, if we all die, then that will be sad, but life goes on. 
 
But with the Refusal ending, we are the last hope for the galactic civilization. Not just for humanity, but all the species of the Milky Way. If we fail, it's all over. The stakes just shoot up dramatically and, in theory, our investment in the story follows. 
 
It also gives us a more tangible motivation than just “explore”.  You can still have the wonder of exploring strange new worlds in this set up, but you also have the drive of desperation and survival. We've lost once, we cannot lose again. If we can't reach a peaceful arrangement with the locals, we can't just turn around and go home; we don't have a home anymore, and we need to claim one.
 
As for how this works logistically within the setting. A prominent theory as to how we get to Andromeda is reverse engineering Reaper drive cores. A common criticism for this theory is the idea that there isn't enough time in the span of ME3 to accomplish this. However, Liara at one point estimates that, should the Galactic forces fail at the battle of Earth, it will still take the Reapers another hundred years or so to complete the Harvest based solely on the fact that the Galaxy is huge.
 
So that gives us a few decades after our defeat where we're still alive, still struggling, however hopeless it is. A few decades to study dead reapers and figure out a way to adapt their technology into a working prototype that can take us out of the Galaxy. 
 
And now we're in a situation where, even if it isn't perfect, even if it has a 1% chance of success at best, and we haven't gotten the chance to work out all the bugs, it's still worth trying because it's literally all we've got at this point.
 
Aside from those points, Refusal is kind of a best of both worlds scenario when it comes to blank-slating the endings. It combines the “well, we don't have to explain away why the friendly reapers aren't helping us and why everyone isn't a cyborg” of the Destroy ending with the “the geth aren't automatically dead” of the control and synthesis endings. So it gives them the freedom of bringing whatever elements they want from the setting without being burdened by the baggage the other endings saddled them with.
 
So, in conclusion, while I maintain that canonizing any of the endings is a terrible, terrible idea, if they have to choose one, then from a narrative stand point, I believe that Refusal would be the best option they could go with.

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#2
Vapaa

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Yes, it is.

 

It's also saying that the Renault Espace is the best of MPVs or that Syphilis is the best of STDs.


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#3
BabyPuncher

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I think we might be confusing what's best with what's easiest for the writers.


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#4
Former_Fiend

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I think we might be confusing what's best with what's easiest for the writers.

 

There is something to be said for efficiency in writing. Something that can raise the stakes of the story, give your characters a driving and convincing motivation, and remove the need to come up with a convoluted reason why you don't have unstoppable living star ships on your team, or why everyone doesn't have glowing circuitry on their skin(or exploring the full implications if they do), or even something as simple as trimming the fat of the characters wondering about what's going on back home, frees the writer up to focus on things that actually matter, like plot, character development and depth, and world building in regards to the new setting and societies we encounter.



#5
Wulfram

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If I was going to go this route, I'd make it an alternate universe where Shepard simply stayed dead rather than canonising Refuse

#6
Former_Fiend

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If I was going to go this route, I'd make it an alternate universe where Shepard simply stayed dead rather than canonising Refuse

 

I don't see that as being the simpler option.



#7
caradoc2000

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Isn't the whole point of moving the franchise to another galaxy that they can ignore any and all choices made in the original trilogy - including the endings.


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#8
Panda

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If BW wants to talk about Milky Way in ME:A at all, I think it's either best that ME:A's crew don't know what is happening in Milky Way (cause they left before ending) or then refusal so they are last Milky Wayans around like you proposed. However if crew doesn't know what happened to Milky Way I don't think any endings of ME3 need to be made canon and players can think the one they choose in ME3 is canon.


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#9
Laughing_Man

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I honestly don't care if they make one of the endings canon.

 

I hated the entire premise of the ending, and I don't have an emotional investment in any of them, I just closed the book on this disaster,

pretended as best I can that it never happend to begin with, and moved on.

 

Even if they decide to make a particular "choice" canon, I would just shrug and move on to try and find out if ME:A is going to be a better game,

or if it's going to continue the disappointing mediocrity trend the seems to afflict Bioware.


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#10
Former_Fiend

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Isn't the whole point of moving the franchise to another galaxy that they can ignore any and all choices made in the original trilogy - including the endings.

 

That's what I think, as I mentioned in the second paragraph.

 

But there are others who see things differently.

 

 



If BW wants to talk about Milky Way in ME:A at all, I think it's either best that ME:A's crew don't know what is happening in Milky Way (cause they left before ending) or then refusal so they are last Milky Wayans around like you proposed. However if crew doesn't know what happened to Milky Way I don't think any endings of ME3 need to be made canon and players can think the one they choose in ME3 is canon.

 

Like I said, I personally think dodging the issue all together by having the ARK leave before the endings even happen is the best option. This is more of a, "well, if they have to pick one" kind of thing.

 

I don't think they do have to pick one, but some people on these forums disagree with me on that, so this is me meeting them half way.



#11
Han Shot First

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Isn't the whole point of moving the franchise to another galaxy that they can ignore any and all choices made in the original trilogy - including the endings.

 

Pretty much. 

 

Bioware hasn't said that, but it is a fairly obvious conclusion to draw from the shift in setting from the Milky Way to Andromeda. They'll only need to consider basing a sequel on one of ME3's endings if the setting is the Milky Way.


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#12
themikefest

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That would be funny if the arks/ship/whatever leaves after Commander dumda** refuses to pick an ending

 

I say the folks will leave or already have left for Andromeda before the fleets head to Earth.


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#13
PhroXenGold

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Yeah, I completely agree with the OP here (and I've made much the same suggestion msyelf a few times ;) ). If BW were to make the mistake of making an ending canon, Refuse (or something XCOM2-esque of continuing from a timeline where Shep died earlier) would be the best choice. It gives reasons for the Ark project to exist, it gives time for the technology to be developed and it means there's no need to think about communications with "home".


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#14
caradoc2000

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The tagline for Mass Effect:Andromeda

Spoiler



#15
Pasquale1234

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Isn't the whole point of moving the franchise to another galaxy that they can ignore any and all choices made in the original trilogy - including the endings.


That's certainly a large part of it, but I think there may be other reasons.

The Milky Way was set up with a variety of conflicts that have since been addressed. What I'm suggesting is that they've exhausted the storytelling they wanted to do in that environment, and a new galaxy gives them a clean slate.

That doesn't mean they couldn't set up new stories in the Milky Way, but it would likely be a whole lot more complicated to do so. And I think the expectation of ongoing contact / eventual return to the trilogy's locations would be a lot higher.

On-topic: though I don't disagree with the reasoning presented, *if* they were to canonize anything, refusal would be the least likely choice imho. I suspect some people who continue with the IP will be clinging to hope of eventually returning to the Milky Way, and would otherwise abandon the series. Liara's time capsules empowering the next cycle aside, the refuse ending really does carry the feeling that everything you did in the trilogy was all for naught.

#16
Former_Fiend

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That's certainly a large part of it, but I think there may be other reasons.

The Milky Way was set up with a variety of conflicts that have since been addressed. What I'm suggesting is that they've exhausted the storytelling they wanted to do in that environment, and a new galaxy gives them a clean slate.

That doesn't mean they couldn't set up new stories in the Milky Way, but it would likely be a whole lot more complicated to do so. And I think the expectation of ongoing contact / eventual return to the trilogy's locations would be a lot higher.

On-topic: though I don't disagree with the reasoning presented, *if* they were to canonize anything, refusal would be the least likely choice imho. I suspect some people who continue with the IP will be clinging to hope of eventually returning to the Milky Way, and would otherwise abandon the series. Liara's time capsules empowering the next cycle aside, the refuse ending really does carry the feeling that everything you did in the trilogy was all for naught.

 

There is a way they could address that.

 

In Andromeda, we're desperate, we're on the run, but we're also angry. And I mean Javik angry.

 

What if our goal isn't to simply make a new home in Andromeda. What if the plan is to establish Andromeda as a staging point for a counter assault. Build up, advance, study Reaper tech, Andromeda tech, until we can come back shooting just in time for the next Harvest?

 

Then, not only do we preserve the Milky Way races, get all the new and exciting Andromeda races, but we also get introduced to all the species of the next cycle in the Milky Way.

 

Not that this doesn't have a plethora of problems with it, but I've put all of five minutes of thought into it, so with a little hammering out the details, there could be something here.


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#17
Pasquale1234

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It's a very interesting idea, but that story would take place over ~50,000 years.

Also, the Milky Way would be entirely different when we returned. Heck, it could be a Yahg empire. Or a Leviathan empire. I'm not quite sure why the Milky Way species that escaped would care enough to spend 50,000 years trying to retaliate.

Plus - Liara's time capsules.

#18
Former_Fiend

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Well, that's a part of the reason I think they should duck the endings all together.

 

But I'd be up to see Leviathan Empire v2.0.

 

Far as the time capsules go, I could think of a couple ways around that, or maybe not even around. Just a joint effort kind of thing.



#19
Indigenous

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O.O Refusal! Bioware really just added refusal to comfort the 'fans' that couldn't understand the original three endings. Now years later you are suggesting that Bioware's laziest and most pointless ending should be made cannon. You are suggesting that Shepard, dragging himself step by step all the way to the Citadel so close to finally ending the reaper threat... turns around and goes home?

 

You said you are being objective. What facts were you looking at? Can I look at them too? :)

 

In ME1 you can choose to kill the Rachni Queen. Regardless of your choice Rachni Queen shows up in ME3. Do you honestly believe they can't explain why friendly reapers aren't helping you?

 

Surely if the game starts after the ending they could create a number of pressing issues that could force us into Andromeda.



#20
Hanako Ikezawa

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Making Refuse canon is one of the worst things Bioware could possibly do. Especially since it wasn't even an original option.

 

Luckily they've been adamant about not having a canon ending. 



#21
Former_Fiend

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Making Refuse canon is one of the worst things Bioware could possibly do. Especially since it wasn't even an original option.

 

Luckily they've been adamant about not having a canon ending. 

 

It's amazing to me, in that we both agree and disagree on an issue at the same time.


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#22
Lady Artifice

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This is a stretchy kind of hypothetical. 

 

"Don't do this, but if you do this, do it this way." 

 

I dunno. As far as I'm concerned, the question of whether to canonize any ending is is answered by "don't," full stop. I follow your logic, it just seems superfluous to me, consider how really bad an idea I think canonizing any ending is. 



#23
Lady Artifice

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It's amazing to me, in that we both agree and disagree on an issue at the same time.

 

You mean, that doesn't happen to everyone else all the time? 



#24
BabyPuncher

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This is a stretchy kind of hypothetical. 

 

"Don't do this, but if you do this, do it this way." 

 

I dunno. As far as I'm concerned, the question of whether to canonize any ending is is answered by "don't," full stop. I follow your logic, it just seems superfluous to me, consider how really bad an idea canonizing any ending seems to me. 

 

Less bad than trying to face up to Synthesis in any sort of intelligent or reasonable fashion.

 

They only had to talk about it for several minutes last time and it was a colossally stupid mess. They try to do any real writing with it, it's only going to be worse.



#25
Pasquale1234

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My favorite premise thus far is that the firing of the Crucible created a temporary wormhole that immediately propelled some of the ships of the united fleet to Andromeda before it collapsed. That would get you whatever species they want to include, satisfy any technological impediments to intergalactic travel, and also mean that you are stuck with no way to ever return to the Milky Way.
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