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Trespasser Theorystravaganza!


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I was hoping that if I gave it some time, this monstrous pile of lore would settle into a nice, tidy little pattern.  (ಥwಥ)  But no.  It’s still madness.  Massive chunks of exploded pre-Trespasser theory are scattered everywhere, and every time I pull on a new string, something else unravels.  Pushing this whole mess out of my head so someone else can point out where I’ve gone wrong and how it all fits together.

 

First, just to be sure the rest of this makes any sense at all, some quick background theory.   If you’re already good to go with Order vs. Chaos -> Faith vs. Magic, the centrality of Choice, and gameworld-as-Fade, feel free to skip down to “Trespasser Rabbit Hole Starts Here!”   Otherwise, a quick overview of the important bits.

 

Game World as Fade: rules that are bent, but never broken.

 

There are a staggering number of parallels between the world of Thedas and our own.  The DA universe is an impressive work of syncretism, made even more so by how neatly the idea ties back into the nature of the game world itself.   Put simply, the world of Dragon Age seems to have a relationship to our own reality that parallels that of the Fade to Thedas itself.   It is a phantom universe, separated from the physical world by the “veil” of our monitor screens, reflecting aspects of our reality like a funhouse mirror: distorted, warped, exaggerated, but undeniably recognizable.  Like the fade, the game world is fundamentally malleable, its form and direction shaped almost effortlessly by the desires and thoughts of the only sentient mind within it: the player. 

 

For the purposes of theory crafting, the relevant point is that the game world seems to share two important conceits with the fade of Thedas.   First, it may bend the laws of the world it reflects, but never fully break them.   The parallels we uncover are never direct.  The warped image of the game world is never completely faithful to the “real world” that it mirrors, and we shouldn’t expect otherwise.    Second is the assumption that in its function as a mirror, twisted and splintered though it may be, the broad conceptual underpinnings and structural components of the game world can’t diverge entirely from our reality.  A mirror can distort or warp the world it reflects, but it is still a reflection- its contents are necessarily limited by having something to reflect out in the “real world”.

 

Taken together, these two assumptions allow us (with caution) to draw on an incredibly broad array of real-world analogies and frameworks to add additional context to the lore we find in game, many of which themselves overlap in ways that suggest new paths of exploration, connection, and explanation.

 

As a quick example, a parallel that randomly fell into place for me earlier today (and I’m sure others are way ahead of me on this) is how aspects of Solas’ character and history run in warped parallel with Doctor Who.

 

The ‘incarnations’.   The two hearts.   The Oncoming Storm.   The Time War.   The Moment.   Gallifrey and Arlathan.   “The healer has the bloodiest hands.”  "What I did, I did without choice, in the name of peace and sanity."   His expertise with wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff.   Even the blasted orb-screwdriver, though that starts to feel like a stretch.  Ten’s arc might even offer the faintest glimmer of hope-despair for fellow Solasmancers:   “I've seen fake gods and bad gods and demi gods and would-be gods.  Out of all that, out of that whole pantheon, if I believe in one thing... just one thing... I believe in her.”

 

“I'm old enough to know that a longer life isn't always a better one. In the end, you just get tired; tired of the struggle, tired of losing everyone that matters to you, tired of watching everything you love turn to dust. If you live long enough, the only certainty left is that you'll end up alone.”

 

Unfortunately, that’s about as far as I can go with it, because my knowledge of the source itself is limited.  (Watched for a bit, disliked Rose, loved Donna, lost interest after Tennant left.   Yes, I realize that makes me a bad person.)  But someone with enough Who lore to bring to bear might be able to pick out deeper hints or insights in the connection that would otherwise pass unnoticed.   

 

And of course, Arlathan is more than Gallifrey.   Arlathan is Olympus.   Arlathan is Atlantis.   Arlathan is Carcosa.   Arlathan is Heaven, Hell, and lost Christian Eden in one.   Every connection we discover offers a fresh perspective, a new framework we can use to help sketch the larger picture from the warped and fragmented pieces we find in game.

 

Moving on to Choice!

 

This is already getting a bit long, so summary time.   Choice is critical.  Choice is everything.   This is a pretty obvious point to make from a meta-game perspective:  choice is the core gameplay mechanic that determines the ultimate outcome of your game.  More than that though, the game itself actively engages players in exploring the larger concept.  What does it mean to have free will?   What drives the decisions we make?   How do we deal with the burden of choice when the consequences extend beyond ourselves?   Where should my right to act freely end, and your rights begin?  How does a society decide on that balance?  What happens if they fail?  What makes choice difficult?  What makes it impossible? 

 

 In order to dig into this a bit more, we have to take a quick look at Order and Chaos.  The existence of individual free will and the ability to make meaningful choices depends on maintaining a delicate balance between the two.   Too much Order in the form of social restrictions, expectations, or outright slavery, and the individual’s ability to truly ‘choose’ is threatened.  Too much Chaos, and that choice loses both significance and impact- its effect lost in a tumult of roiling change.

 

The wide range of cultures we find in Thedas explores this aspect a bit.  The Avvar are probably the most “chaotic” people we’ve encountered so far.  Their society imposes very few restrictions, so individuals are largely free to do as they please.  But as outliers at the chaotic end of the spectrum, the effects of these choices tend to be limited in both duration and significance.  Avvar marriage (the most significant social contract most of us will ever enter into) is ensured not to last beyond the number of knots tied in a string.  Pacts and treaties last only as long as they’re deemed useful, then discarded without much fanfare.   Avvar culture isn’t dysfunctional, but neither is their society likely to produce any great collaborative works, scientific advances or engineering marvels.  

 

The Qunari exist at the opposite end of the spectrum.  Though the game suggests it hasn’t always been so, their civilization is dominated by relentless Order in the modern age.  They’ve made tremendous strides working as a cooperative unit, outstripping most other cultures in terms of scientific inquiry and technology… but at what cost?  How much potential has been stifled for the sake of social order?  What possibilities were lost?  When a society builds itself around such a rigid structure, can the larger “organism” still adapt and evolve to meet new challenges?   

 

Finally (and fittingly) the core dilemma of striking a balance between Order and Chaos has a parallel in the design of the game itself.   Not enough choice and players feel trapped, restricted, like the game is running on rails.  Too much and the underlying structure becomes cacophonous and unmanageable, undermining the writers’ ability to grant individual choices significant weight and impact.

 

Moving back to the abstract, we can conceive of primordial Order as the deterministic, Newtonian universe.  You could flip a figurative coin, but the result is governed entirely by the set of static, predictable laws that govern its motion through space:  the initial force applied, the drag coefficient of the air, the distance traveled, and so on.   “Choice” in this scenario is an illusion, and this is something that modern neuroscience is still grappling with.  How do we define free will and choice when our physical brains (and thus thought itself) can be reduced to biochemical processes, as seemingly inevitable and outside conscious control as any other chemical reaction?  

 

Spoiler

 

Anyway!  In the game world, the answer is simple.  Individual free will seems to have its source in the same element that frees the universe from determinism: the introduction of Chaos.   As noted in my (painfully outdated and totally wrong in spots) earlier post on the nature of magic, Chaos provides an opposing will to Order, an alternative outcome for every theoretical coin flip in the universe.  While our earlier universe of Order was bound to mechanically follow a single absolute path from beginning to end (a “song” of creation orchestrated by a single Conductor) the introduction of Chaos shatters that original into the multiverse: the Sundered Song.   An infinity of parallel universes, the broadest set of which includes (the game suggests) our own.  Uncertainty comes into play, and the fractal way in which the same theme repeats at multiple levels (the fade taking form in response to sentient thought, choice conceived as directed quantum decoherence) is one of the things that makes the DA universe so interesting and elegant.   While it may not be how the mind works in our own reality (indeterminacy on a macroscopic scale doesn’t occur neurologically) high five to the writing team for building a universe that makes more sense than ours. 

 

Moving on!  We’re given two primary symbols to represent Order and Chaos within the game:  the Sun (Chaos) and the All-seeing Eye (Order), which can help us decrypt a ton of subtext within the game itself.  The sigil of the Seekers is an obvious example: the two symbols are superimposed upon one another in a visual representation of their critical impartiality, dedication to truth, and the restoration of balance.   The Inquisition adds a downturned sword to the sigil, suggesting the restoration of this balance by necessary force.  The Templar sigil is interesting in that both the upward and downward pointing versions seem to be accepted as valid- but still, whether the sword represents mercy or execution, the overall effect is clear: the suppression of magic (Chaos, the Sun) by force.   The Chantry’s use of the Sun and its lingering connection to a coming “dawn” stems from the origin of the faith.  This makes it something of a visual anachronism in the context of modern Thedas, remaining unchanged even as the organization itself has warped in tone and purpose over time.  At this point, it might be more accurate to call it a symbol of the False Sun, which is an idea I’ll come back to in a moment.)

 

Order and Chaos have a number of secondary symbols, and an important one to note in the context of choice is free will as the butterfly, a nod to the real world concept of the “butterfly effect”, linking the idea again to Chaos and the indeterministic universe.   In game, we see this connection referenced directly in talking with Erasthenes, who we know Corypheus has stripped of choice.  He is a helpless puppet, and describes his state:

 

"I am a ruin, the jeweled husk when the butterfly leaves."

 

The butterfly stands in as a direct symbol of what he has lost: his ability to choose- and again its connection to Chaos is an apt fit, given that the Chant marks this as the Maker’s precious gift to his second-born.  This element of chaos is the “unquenchable flame” in our blood, driving us to shape the world around us as fractal Makers, the center of our own small universe.  It is our individual melody, our tiny piece of the Sundered Song.

 

Now that we’ve established a connection between the Chaos butterfly and free will, we need to mark the existence of its dark twin.  Note the juxtaposition between the above and what we find on page 67 of WoT2:

 

Spoiler

 

World of Thedas presents this image with the note "The Magisters face judgement", implying this figure represents the essence of the Maker they encountered.  And what is it?  Although it's drawn with sun-like beams of light emerging from its crown, its features are unmistakable.  This is a moth.  A false butterfly.  A creature of darkness drawn inescapably to light, but self-negated in its attempt to seize the flame of the Sun. 

 

The idea of a “False Sun” has echoes elsewhere as well.  In the Andrastean faith, the Maker described in the early Chant grants individual will to His Children freely, asking nothing but the pleasure of watching them create in turn.  But by the time Transfigurations 12 was added to the text, this Maker is utterly transformed, referred to as “the fire at the heart of the World” and demands that His faithful kneel:

 

For I walk only where You would bid me

Stand only in places You have blessed

Sing only the words You place in my throat

 

The Maker of the early Chant, the one who cast aside his firstborn because they were mere reflections with no will of their own, has been replaced by a Maker whose aim seems to be the inverse: utter domination and control of His Children.   Four distinct Creators seem to be interchangeably referenced behind the mask of the Andrastean “Maker” in the Chant, but the split above is easiest to discern.  This is Order in the guise of Chaos: the False Sun, the Moth, the King in Yellow, the Darkness claiming the dominion of Light. 

 

Spoiler

 

On that topic, a quick note about red lyrium.  I think we’re given limited evidence in Trespasser that it may not be blighted by nature.  (Though the red lyrium idol, which is the most likely origin of the red lyrium in Ferelden and Thedas, absolutely is.  No question there.)   Consider Cole’s comment when you come across the Qunari sample at the Darvaarad: 

 

“The song is different, but the pieces fit together”.  

 

Nothing here hints at the discomfort he usually feels around red lyrium, no mention of how “wrong” or “sick” its song is.   It’s possible this is a sample of the blood of the Sun in its untainted state, the song of Chaos forming a natural partner to the Song of Order sung by blue lyrium.  Cole’s comment that the two pieces “fit together” is an encouraging suggestion that balance is possible.

 

The important point here is that if this is true, then red lyrium has no innate darkness within it.  The Sun is a powerful entity of Chaos, willful and dangerous- but may not be an inherently malevolent entity.   This would also mean that the “darkness” that forms the essence of blight must be something else, an unnatural element artificially introduced to his Song.  Which brings to mind the following:

 

"There is strength in absence. Absence of weakness, and of limitation. Absence of caution, and of mercy. The Void has always been within."  

 

If this “void” exists in tangible form, it would make a powerful and incredibly dangerous compound with the innate “fire” of the Sun.  Together the two suggest ambition untempered by mercy, rage unchecked by caution- an overwhelming desire to conquer or destroy even if the result is a Kingdom of ash and dust.  And there is a worrying angle here that suggests Solas’ inherent duality may stem from the nature of his parallel in our world.   We can conceive of “Father Time” as entropy, and thus primordial chaos in isolation- but in our own reality, space and time are inextricably connected.   It’s possible the same holds true here: both void and chaos in one.   He seems to have mellowed considerably over time (as has Mythal) but his perspective still occasionally evokes the faint, irritating specter of Ayn Rand. 

 

Order vs Chaos, Faith vs Magic  

 

Faith is the confirmation of Order, suppressing change in favor of the Maker’s Plan.  It is tacit confirmation that the “World That Is” is as it should, and must be.  As we see with both Seeker and Templar abilities, Faith stands in fundamental opposition to change, holding the world in place and preserving its current state.  This, I think, might explain why Spirits of Faith are drawn to Seekers during their vigil.  By isolation, fasting and other acts of self-abnegation, the trace of chaos that defines the Seeker’s individual will (their song) is muted into near silence.  Similarly, they detach themselves from the spirit (fade) world of emotion and memory, existing only in the moment.  In deepest meditation, the Seeker exists in a form in which a Maker of Order might recognize His Children: a life force laid bare, the walls that separate sentient beings from the larger universe dissolving as they temporarily rejoin the original Song.  

 

This might also help explain why Seekers seem to possess an innate resistance to red lyrium, as (in theory) that would be the Blood of the Sun, primordial titan of Chaos.  Their nature, particularly after their reawakening by a spirit of Faith, stands in fundamental opposition to its effect- possibly suggesting they’re no longer as “harmonic” as someone who hadn’t undergone the vigil would be.

 

Magic forms the other side of the coin.  Though in function it might appear to impose ‘order’ on indeterminate fadestuff, at a more fundamental level it’s an expression of Chaos:  the triumph of individual Will over the external world.   Where Faith would have choice guided by a Greater Power or ceded entirely, Magic exalts the individual as a Power unto themselves, a Maker within their own domain.  And as always, this tends to feel like a good thing from a western progressive perspective until one Maker decides they’d prefer a world with a fireball where someone else’s face was.  Conflict is a facet of Chaos, and thus an (almost?) inevitable consequence of the Sundered Song.   While harmony isn’t impossible, it becomes more difficult to sustain with each additional melody added to the larger whole.

 

Shite.  This is getting way too long for simple back theory.   Summary graphic time.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Trespasser Rabbit Hole Starts Here!

 

So.  Where to start.  Ok.

 

Might as well stick with Order and Chaos, because we get some new symbols in Trespasser that might help us tie some interesting bits together.   The most obvious is the new pair of statues we find at the entrance to Fen’Harel’s sanctuary and in the Deep Roads.  Given the context, assuming a connection to the Sun and Mythal seems fairly straightforward, and we find the same basic symbols repeated on top of the pair of eluvians we find in the Vir Dirthara.

 

Spoiler

 

So the two seem to break down as we might expect: Chaos (the Sun) and Order (Earth/Mythal).  The general shape of the statues is intriguing though- particularly the “flipper” appendages.  We might be able to shrug these off as aesthetic flair, maybe a stylized interpretation of dragon wings- but unfortunately for the sanity of theory crafters everywhere, this is not the only ancient art that evokes the same bizarre shape.    And that starts us down a slippery slope that ends in a cliff.

 

Spoiler

 

This is the series of mosaics found in Fen’Harel’s sanctuary, and I think the context we find in each tower is meant to suggest the general era the corresponding mosaic belongs  to.  (Meaning the statues and murals, not the veilfire codices, which seem to have been laid on top at a later date.   Solas is quick to correct the Inquisitor on that point when she describes the ‘truth’ she uncovered in the sanctuary:  “You saw another story, written in desperation to give me far more credit than I deserve.”)

 

So what do we find? 

 

The first seems to associate Fen’Harel with the crossroads ‘trees’ we find throughout the eluvian network.   While their function is still unclear (which makes the implication hazy as well) our experience suggests they might gather and store loose, static-like veil energy, possibly drawing it from the surrounding area. 

 

Spoiler

 

The second tower has two mosaics, and again- in context, I think these imply the continuation of a narrative that diverges sharply from the veilfire codices overlaid on them.  The tower is topped and guarded with the archer statue we find throughout Thedas, and the “Robin Hood” parallel feels very intentional.  The first mosaic strengthens that suggestion, depicting a band of equals united in purpose: guided, but not controlled, by the wolf that fights at their side.  The visual bridge between the balanced top and bottom images further suggests a group whose collective efforts serve to effectively “create” the larger Fen’Harel perceived by the outside world, much like Sera’s band of Red Jennies.

 

Spoiler

 

But as the image points out, we’re also given a hint at the first stirrings of Pride here, creeping into the scene from below as a curling pattern of peacock feathers.  And as we enter the tower itself, the external murals of civil war and armed conflict take a darker turn: a procession of listless figures drawn with a gaping void where their mind and heart would otherwise be, trudging beneath a relentless Sun.   

 

Spoiler

 

Previous interpretations of this image (including my own) tended to read these figures as elven slaves, drones utterly dominated by the Sun.   The problem being that the more we learn about the nature of red lyrium, the less slavery and control seem like a comfortable fit.  What if, rather than being a depiction of the fighters’ adversary, the image was instead meant to evoke the darker aspect of the elves’ newly-won freedom, the unforeseen consequences of the ‘sundered song’?    

 

The idea is shaky, but taking that perspective might cast some explanatory light on the mosaic we discover at the base of the tower, which seems to be a very dark twist on Robin’s Hood’s “robbing from the rich to give to the poor”. 

 

Spoiler

 

There is a lot to unpack here.   The peacock feathers that were only hinted at in the previous mosaic are now fully unfurled, dominating the background to each side of the central figure.  This is Pride in full force- and this is where we discover an echo of the statue we found in the Deep Roads. 

 

Having identified the figure in an earlier context, it seems logical to assume a continued connection here, which has staggering implications.  That would make this Earth (Mythal), chained and utterly at the mercy of Fen’Harel, being forcibly drained of blue lyrium which the mosaic depicts dripping from her body.   The visual parallels with Hathor (and by extension Aoumbla/Amalthea/ Gavaevodata/Kamadhenu/etc-) strengthen the identification.   

 

Spoiler

 

Also, following the theme of vengeance and Mythal “hunting the hunter”, Cole’s comment that “sometimes the cow takes your gold” takes on a very pointed nuance in terms of the success of Solas’ game “exploits”.  

 

The obvious question is why?  

 

I think we’re given a potential answer from the interplay of two sources.  First, our earlier Robin Hood framework would suggest an act of redistribution, sapping the power of a primordial Titan master to be shared among the freed People.   Second is the nearby mural’s empty, enervated depiction of elves beneath the Sun.   Pulling the two together takes a bit of wrangling, so bear with me.  It’s tinfoil hat time.

 

To keep this from spiraling wildly out of control, I’m going to have to hold off a bit on digging into back theory about the nature of ancient elvhen and how they might relate to the primordial Titans.  For now, this is going to take a leap of faith.  Start with the assumption that when proto-elves came into being, they were much as the Andrastean Chant depicts the Maker’s firstborn Children.   Not simply connected by a shared hive mind, but utterly without individual will - controlled entirely by the greater entity of which they were a symbiotic part.  The breaking of these first chains thus came with an equally shattering consequence: an abrupt and terrifying loss of connection, both from each other and from the larger whole.  This sensation of individuality and corresponding isolation would have been new and utterly foreign, possibly to the point of being unbearable for some.

 

And as we move to the central building of the sanctuary, that perspective seems to offer a potential motive for the previous mosaic’s horrifying act of pride.  It seems to suggest the creation of a new network for the People:  one that would connect, but not control.  When the Inquisitor examines the mural in the central cathedral, her immediate assumption is that it depicts Fen’Harel removing the vallaslin of freed slaves.  This is a difficult interpretation to defend on closer look.  

 

Spoiler

 

The central figure’s actions may be ambiguous, but their effect is not.   The elves that stand behind the Wolf are markedly desaturated, their temples and cheekbones sunken.  They stare ahead, rigid and expressionless, held within the borders of a barrier that stands between them and the larger world.  

 

Spoiler

 

The figures to the Wolf’s right bear vallaslin, and the transformation is unmistakable.   Their colors are brighter, their cheeks full, their skin pink and healthy.  Only the faintest suggestion of a barrier remains, and only to underscore what has been erased.  They are again connected to the larger world, both the physical and the “ocean” of the fade, and they seem to regard their surroundings with newfound joy and wonder.  (Note the blue color of the vallaslin, a hint at the nature of the “blood” being used and its potential connection to the events of the previous mosaic.)  

 

Spoiler

 

The orb’s placement in the scene is harder to interpret.  It’s possible it’s only meant to suggest the fade as a means of accessing the “godlike” powers of their former Master, but this could also be an attempt to visually describe a more nuanced connection- possibly that the orb itself draws its power in some way from the thoughts and dreams of those connected through the fade.    It’s uncertain.

 

What is certain is that this scene was never intended to depict Fen’Harel lifting vallaslin from freed slaves.  It seems more likely to be a record of the earliest inception of the practice, long before the discovery that this new network could once again be twisted to control. 

 

As an aside, though this doesn’t lead anywhere solid, it’s at least a little suspicious that there’s an odd crater in the valley so close to where we would otherwise expect a fourth tower to stand.  …particularly since the corresponding portal ledge of the tower it would have faced ends in a jagged edge of broken masonry.   It gets even more so when you consider that the paired tower also happens to be the one topped by the rebel archer statue, its bow drawn and trained on the (now?) empty spot.   To quote Dorian, “That’s something.  I don’t know what, but it’s something.”

 

Spoiler

 

Before we get to the final mosaic, we need to talk about the elephant in the room: Solas’ plan to drop the veil and restore his People.  We’re told outright that this won’t be as simple as merging the two worlds into one- that in taking down the veil, the world of his People would be recovered at the cost of our own “burning in the chaos”.  I’m not convinced the destruction he describes would be a direct consequence of simply bringing down the veil, however.  My hunch is that doing so is just a required step to power his true objective:  rewinding the current timeline to the point when the veil was (last) raised.   We have limited exposure to the rules that govern time magic in the DA universe (and my own grasp on it is super weak) but I believe what we do know suggests that the act of raising the veil formed a distinct bubble of time bounded by one end by its creation event, within which a degree of time travel would be possible.

 

And yes, though this gets more than a little goofy and meta, the real world ‘game’ parallels are definitely there:  in this case, time travel as save-game exploit.   Solas’ current “playthrough” is ruined, so he’s starting over from an earlier save.   Unfortunately, that means our current world- the one that only exists along this particular decision path- will be inevitably lost, the cached/buffered data that defines it eventually flushed entirely from RAM.  Our world must burn to give the new one space to exist.

 

A significant problem in this interpretation (aside from the screams of PLEASE NO JESUS NOT TIME TRAVEL) is that having to account for it as a potential factor blows most of our existing theory base to smithereens.  Odd breadcrumbs that were passed over before take on all-new meaning, and one of the more worrying patterns that seems to emerge on a second pass is the likelihood that this is not the first time Solas has jumped back to take a do-over.   Or the second.  Or the third.   

 

Sera is one of the most significant hints that Solas may have already used a “save point” multiple times.   I believe her OGS (as Andruil) is fundamentally bound to the game world, and thus exists outside the ‘RAM’ that defines the current timeline.  This, I believe, is the source of her constant episodes of deja-vu as she travels with the Inquisition.   To drive home the point, if she’s in a relationship with the Inquisitor in Trespasser, she comes about as close to expressing anxiety about an impending rewrite as she possibly could without having conscious awareness of it. 

 

tumblr_nuvs00CBHL1rm1onmo1_1280.jpg

 

Taken on its own, we could pass this off as nothing.  It’s a proposal completely in line with Sera’s usual impetuous urge to seize the day.  (Though that aspect of her character should draw a bit of suspicion itself in this light.  “Why change the past when you can own this day?”)   But much like the “Nothing” on her fade tombstone invites dual interpretation as a reference to her current search for meaning as well as a deeper ‘inherited’ fear of the Void, it’s hard not to read a layer of heavy nuance lurking underneath the sweet and awkward sentiment.

 

Cole is another pointer to repetitive time travel as conceptual parallel to save-game exploits.  Two of his new comments reference the idea directly:

 

“If you leave and come back, the chest gives you another.  That’s how we know too much.”

“Sometimes the cow takes your gold.”

 

The idea is worrying enough on its own, but as we continue to pick out related breadcrumbs, the picture gets even stranger.   There have always been elements in game that seem strategically placed for the Inquisition to find just as they’re needed.   I’m 99% sure Cole actually says as much at some point (Hakkon maybe?  When the party comes across boxes marked with the bear/spider seal in the temple?) cheerfully exclaiming that they were put here “for us!”   At the time, I thought it was just a clever way to lampshade the kind of compromised realism that functional gameplay demands.  (A bit like the War Hounds codex nudges us about reused art assets, or how the use of Lorem Ipsum text isn’t actually ‘filler’ from a thematic perspective.)  So I just laughed, gave the writing team a mental high five, and put it out of my mind. 

 

 …until now.  Now I’m not so sure that this rewrite option is quite as clean as Solas seems to think, though it’s still unclear how aware he himself might be of this fact.  Given what the loop might imply about the nature of the Pantheon, it’s possible he hasn’t been able to successfully “fix” much of anything at all- but we’ll leap off that cliff in a bit. 

 

First, take a look at the banners that we find hanging in Skyhold when we first arrive.  They’re faded with age and marked with a sigil whose in-game source and meaning remains entirely unknown, though anyone familiar with the Cthulhu Mythos would likely recognize it.  This is the Yellow Sign, a glyph of ancient horror tied to lost Carcosa and the implacable King in Yellow.  Links between Lovecraftian lore and DA are extensive, from Ghil’s abyssal horrors to statuary of the Thing in the Dark, to paeans to Cthulhu pinned to Helsdim’s wall, to codices on Orlesian theater that seem to be fragments from a version of the King in Yellow play itself.  All draw suggestive parallels between members of the Pantheon and the Great Old Ones, as well as Carcosa and Arlathan.

 

This is Helsdim-level madness -I know- but given that context, and the strong possibility that the Sign heralds the dawn of the False Sun (the arrival of the [Queen?] in Yellow), the banners may have been a warning left by the last Inquisition.  …the one that manned Skyhold and defeated Corypheus in the cycle before ours.   Yes, I know that doesn’t make sense.   Still, the banners have to have been crafted in both the past and the “future”.   I can’t think of any other way to explain why or how the sigil seems to depict the scar from the Breach:

 

Spoiler

 

And just to push this to the point where nobody’s likely to follow, the idea of an incomplete rewrite opens the door for a very, very drastic reinterpretation of the Pantheon.  A ridiculous part of my brain keeps nudging me that it’s now possible Solas and Mythal are the origin of most of the known Gods:  that each time Solas loads an earlier ‘save’, a fragment of their being is left embedded in the timeline as a distinct OGS entity.   Almost like an echo, but not a mirror image- more like a shard of the previous greater whole, which also continues to exist (though in reduced form) as the timeline once again moves forward.  Unfortunately for Solas (and Mythal’s other potential ‘fragments’) it’s also possible that Mythal’s core OGS is the only one that by its nature would retain full access to her original knowledge and memory through each loop- and thus may be the only entity able to fully comprehend the why and how of everything that came before.

 

As much as the idea gives me a headache, there are some stubborn lore tangles that would straighten considerably in that light (Abelas’ claim that the Dread Wolf had nothing to do with Mythal’s death, for one) and bits of random Cole dialogue would be far more easily wrangled into place.

 

“He hunts the killer, but he’s the one who killed her.  He can’t remember.”

“He was their enemy the whole time, but she made him forget, so he could change.”

“He didn’t kill his father.  He was his father.” 

 

*shakes herself*

 

I don’t know.   I’m not convinced it works.  But it might.   I don’t know how else to reconcile the divide between Mythal and Earth, or how to explain the connection between “Father Time”, Elgar’nan, Dirthamen-Falon’Din, Fen’Harel, and Solas, but this is well beyond Helsdim insanity.  There could very well be an alternative or contradiction that I’m just not seeing yet.

 

Still.

 

Spoiler

 

*gives the writing team a long, hard side-eye, hoping to catch someone shift uncomfortably*

 

Another point that makes the idea hard to shake is that conceptually, this is the only sensible way to “fight” Chaos.   It’s raw energy, the id in our psychoanalytic parallel.  You can’t destroy it, and you can’t suppress or confine it- that just turns it into a bomb.  The best you can do is to spend it.  Try to point it in a positive direction, use it up, let it bleed away and diminish in power.   

 

And if this is Order’s game plan, then it’s actually kind of working.   The old adage that “evil contains the seeds of its own destruction” has a ring of truth here, even if the dichotomy isn’t accurate.   Taking this perspective would also mean Solas was telling us the truth about his nature, though again- it’s still unclear whether he’s aware of the full weight of that claim.  He isn’t an echo or fragment of some lost greater whole.   He is the original, worn down to almost mortal dimensions.   The threat now lies primarily in his disastrous legacy and the pieces he and Mythal have ‘left behind’.

 

Getting back to the mosaic, we also need to quickly dig into the question of exactly who Solas is talking about when he refers to “his People”.  

 

Various posters have surmised that the Chant’s description of the Maker’s first Children maps to the spirits of the Fade, and I think that’s broadly true- though not the whole story.   There’s an obviously tempting parallel to be made between the firstborn of the Andrastean Chant and angels of the Christian bible.  I would take the idea a step further and suggest the nature of this subordination was to the point of not truly being independent entities:  more accurately described as simple extensions of their “Maker’s” will- a seamless symbiotic part of a greater whole.  

 

Since this early primordial existence, I believe the Elvhen have weathered three major cycles of enslavement, rebellion, and exodus.   The first was an awakening to the concept of individuality, the introduction of free will.  Cole describes an elven Inquisitor as having “blood that is not blood, a tiny trace of time”- and I think this is a hint at both their lineage and at how very long ago this first ‘rebellion’ took place.   The element of chaos in their blood, (which again would be the factor that granted them their own song and thus identity as individuals) is Time.   Entropy.   Chaos in its most primordial form- long before the creation of the Sun, whose essence would later fill the same role in the creation of other sentient races.   Consequently, if we can extrapolate as far as I believe we can from revelations in Trespasser, this trace would be the distinct fingerprint of “Father Time”, a pointer to Solas’ role in what was likely a simultaneous act of emancipation from Order and conceptual “creation” in one.

 

In their earliest incarnation, I think these proto-elves would have existed as incorporeal patterns of energy- though how we conceive of that existence depends entirely on the broader creation framework we choose to adopt.  (A collection of neural impulses in the “universal mind” of Individuation theory, software ‘daemons’ within a vast inorganic behemoth within the Mass Effect timeline, and so on.  The important point being no physical bodies yet- these are ghosts in the machine.)

 

This is heavy tinfoil territory, but I believe the old poem “When waked we walked” recounts the aftermath of this creation/rebellion and first exodus in its opening lines, describing the journey of the ancient proto-elves to Earth by wormhole-eluvian.  But this is where overlapping terminology starts to trip us up a bit.  In light of “incomplete rewrite” theory, it seems possible that the planet of modern Thedas is a relatively recent ‘echo’ from the perspective of primordial time, and that if we could view the world from a distant point in space we would actually find it dwarfed in size by Luna, the larger of Thedas’ so-called “moons”.  This would be the true Earth, seat of the nascent empire of Elvhenan remembered in fragments of Dalish history. 

 

Solas claims he last raised the veil because the Evanuris killed Mythal- and I believe he’s using her name synonymously with “Earth” here, as in theory she would be a fragment of that Titan’s spirit.  (Possibly the essential OGS wisp of memory separated from the greater whole when early elves subdued the terrified Earth by making it “forget”.  It’s uncertain.)   But while proximate blame for her murder is still debatable, I think the nature of elven society itself may have made her death almost inevitable.  At its height, ancient Elvhenan was a sprawling empire of marvel and spectacle, every wonder powered by magic whose source was lyrium and fade:  the blood and spirit of the behemoth Titan they conquered and occupied.

 

The story is not a new one, and the parallel to our own reality is easy enough to make.  Progress- taken to mean mankind’s mastery of the world around him- necessarily comes at a price.  Change requires energy, and the “lyrium” of our own world maps most closely to fossil fuels.  (And in that respect, it’s worth noting again how the material of both Solas’ orb and Mythal’s lifeless body resemble anthracite coal: an ancient, condensed, pure version of our real world parallel.)

 

As “the blood of titans”, lyrium seems to be a potentially endless renewable resource at first, but a quick pass with logic tells us this is unlikely to be true.   Conservation of energy is a fundamental law of physics, which (assuming adherence to the rules of the gameworld-as-fade) may be bent, but not broken.   A bled entity must either consume energy to replace what has been lost, or die.  Drawing on what we’ve theorized elsewhere about the fundamentally interchangeable nature of lyrium and the fade, it’s possible that the primordial relationship between ‘proto-elves’ and Titan might have formed a symbiotic loop, something like the mitochondria that power cells in our own bodies: the elven connection to the fade (their ‘dreams’) a conversion of energy which fueled the larger Titan.  

 

Sentience freed them from the restraints of this natural cycle, and as the ever-increasing demands of society outpaced the ‘natural’ restoration of both fade and lyrium, that balance was quickly overturned.  The body of the Titan Earth was slowly and inexorably hollowed by simultaneous expansion of the elven civilization and their quest to recover lyrium.  Faced with crisis, history suggests a faction attempted to explore alternatives and found one in red lyrium, the blood of the Sun.  The effect of this ‘discovery’ was disastrous, compounding a chain of ever-increasing conflict that ultimately culminated in an apocalyptic cataclysm so devastating and total that the planet’s inhabitants- as well as the primordial Titan Earth herself- perished. 

 

Her corpse endures now as Luna, its surface blasted, pitted, and covered in grey ash.   Still, all was not lost.  The souls of the dead endured, held “in memory” by the larger spirit (the fade) of the Titan that had granted them.   This could be the reference intended by Cole’s banter: "She knows they're going to kill her, can only save what's important. Precious space to remember her smile."

 

Thus the second exodus of the Elvhen began.  Spirits of the dead travelled by eluvian first to the Sanctuary we find in Trespasser, then eventually on to the new world.   But this echo was not the same Earth they knew.   It was diminished, lesser- and as some attempted to retake physical form, aspects of the histories that endure evoke a level of hardship that suggests drawing on this new fade may have been difficult, possibly purposefully so.    Aspects of post-fall mythology seem to suggest that the lessons of Arlathan were not entirely forgotten, and some of the Dalish myths that survived the fall have a significant ‘environmental’ aspect:

 

“Long ago, when our people were strong and free, we roamed the world and could do as we pleased. But we were taught by Andruil, Mother of Hares, to respect nature and all of the Creator's creatures. Even though the earth was ours, we did not misuse it.”

 

Similiarly, Koslun is awakened to his revelation by a swarm of locusts that “rises from the earth” devouring all in its path, and comes to the conclusion:

 

“The world and the self are one.

Existence is a choice.

A self of suffering, brings only suffering to the world.

It is a choice, and we can refuse it.”

 

Which seems to have a strange resonance with the idea of uthenera: physical beings choosing to return to their original immaterial existence.  (As well as potentially "rejoining" their Maker before the paths were closed.)

 

And while this timeline is obviously sketched from the barest of clues, I think we’re given a fairly pointed hint in conversation with the Spirit of Command we encounter in Crestwood.  Her response to the question of whether she’s a demon is outrage: “Those dolts who would suck this world dry?”  Helsdim’s conspiracies about “Moon Men” are another obvious pointer, and sound at least slightly less crazy in this context.  It also creates a strikingly evocative image of Solas as Fen’Harel: the Wolf howling at the Moon in loss and sorrow.

 

We have to draw on one more source to complete the picture.   Links between Cathaire and the Disciples of Andraste to real-world Catharism have come up in theory-crafting before.  The sect’s doctrine and relationship to the early Christian church (and the fact that their existence prompted the first real-world Inquisition) gives us a tremendous amount of potential context for lore we find in game.  The interesting potential parallel in this particular context is the Cathar belief that human souls were “the genderless spirits of angels, trapped within the physical creation of the evil god, cursed to be reincarnated until they achieved salvation through a ritual called the consolamentum.”  The parallel is warped, as we expect it to always be- but consider the following:

 

Before the Fall of Arlathan, we have no evidence that human beings were able to use magic.

 

After the Fall, codices from the time suggest that the ancient Elvhen are now “trapped” in some way, and that “Without the wise to lead them, they will lose what they should have been.” 

 

A cycle of reincarnation seems to underlie sentient life in modern-day Thedas.  The Chant holds that human souls escape this cycle by either “crossing the veil and the Fade and all the stars in the sky” to rest at the right hand of the Maker (evoking the Sun in the Void of space), or coming to rest “in the warmest places” governed by the “Fire at the Heart of the World” (evoking the False Sun in the Abyss.)  

 

The parallels between the domains of Christian Heaven (the Sun in the Void), Hell (the Abyss of the False Sun beneath the earth) and Purgatory (the Fade) are fairly easy to trace here, and the Chant suggests the fate of the soul is essentially defined by its chosen orientation in life.   The faithful of the False Sun are rewarded for their obedience by being subsumed, rejoining the greater whole.   (“Seat me by Your side in death / Make me one within Your glory.”) The faithful of the Sun are rewarded for embracing their power as fractal Makers or agents of change by joining the Sun in the sky as a star, a small Sun unto themselves.

 

The important element here is choice.  It is the ability to decide ones’ nature that seems to allow the soul to escape the Purgatory of the fade and pass Beyond, joining their ‘chosen’ Maker.   As Cole’s banter with Solas points out, being incarnated /gaining access to a physical body seems to be the only potential path of redemption that the spirits of the Fade have.   By being trapped within the fade, they are also trapped within their nature.  (“This side is slow and heavy, but here is what can change.”)  It’s possible that some spirits’ desire to take human form may not be a hunger for sensation or life, but for redemption.

 

Cole: “They can only return to the Maker if they become real. Why can't they be forgiven as they are?”

Solas: “People say they lack the ability to learn or grow. But the more contact you have with this world, the more ability you gain.”

 

Solas also makes it clear in various contexts that he does not identify with the Dalish.   He does, however, consistently and emphatically support the plight of mages.   Mages have a limited but conscious awareness of the fade, which is the precise factor he uses to define what it is to be “real” in his final conversation with the Inquisitor.

 

Given the above, in concert with the warped parallel to Cathar belief, it seems plausible that what distinguishes a mage from a non-mage is being born in (now accidental) possession of the reincarnated spirit of an ancient elf.  They are what remains of his People, his lost Children:  the remnants of an ancient and nearly extinct ‘alien’ race.   

 

With that in mind, we turn to the last mosaic.   The icon of the wolf is now complemented by a body whose flippered shape mimics both the earlier statues and the Titan being drained in the previous image.  This is Fen’Harel presented as a God.  The orb representing his power floats before him, the apparent source of a thick wavy line that passes through the head of the figure below.   

 

Spoiler

 

And this… is kind of a tough nut to crack.  if anything does seem certain, is that this is not a depiction of removing vallaslin.  On closer inspection, each half of the face seems to belong to a different type of entity.  The shape of the eyes, the ears, and even the angle of the cheekbone all suggest two halves that share similar traits, yet are fundamentally distinct.  If this is the raising of the veil, is it pointing out a divide that already existed?  The spirits of lost Elvhenan on the left, the mortal elves of Thedas on the right?   Or is it meant to suggest the joining of the two, the incarnation of ancient elvhen souls in recreated physical form?   I’m not sure.

 

But while all of this seems plausible in its broadest strokes, it throws some fundamental pre-Trespasser theory into total disarray. One of the worst is having to reinterpret Mythal.

 

When there was nothing, you were everything.

When there was no earth, you were the Earth.

 

This is where I start to spin in circles.   Mythal has to be the Initial Singularity, has to be Gaia, and yet she can’t be.  She has to be Earth, but also not Earth.  The new lore seems to stomp all over triad magic theory.  She has to be Possibility, but also primordial Order- because there’s no one else to fill the role.

 

Is she the stump of the Giving Tree, the final scrap that remains after sacrificing everything for her Children?   Or is she the eagle, vengefully ripping at Prometheus’ liver as the cycle turns, helping to build hope only to sink the knife deeper as it twists to despair?  Trespasser suggests she has more than enough cause, and time echo theory sets the stage for an original cycle of betrayal that would almost precisely mirror Flemeth’s.  Parallels that tie Solas to the concept of the Doctor also cast a suspicious light on her self-described role as “a fly in the ointment”.   Mythal could be his closest ally and worst enemy, dangling the illusion of redemption and hope only for the satisfaction to be had in ripping it away.

 

Or can she be both?   I can’t shake the sense that her nature is (and perhaps has always been) the mother bird, mercilessly shoving the little ones out of the nest to teach them the power of their own wings.   As she hints often, regret is an inescapable facet of choice.  It is how we learn.  It’s both penance and price in one, and I think Solas is learning an important, though painful, lesson about pride, connection, and balance.

 

I don’t see a clear path yet.   Too many pieces still seem to fit within their own scope but contradict in the larger picture.   And though there’s still a whole pile of lore left to sift through, this is getting ridiculously long.   Leaving it here for now.   

 

Thoughts, corrections, and counter theory are welcome!     It’s going to be a long, long wait for DA4.


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#2
madrar

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Shiiiite.   Typed into the wrong window- this was meant for the lore forum.   Anyone know how to move posts?  Or delete?



#3
Caritas_Lavellan

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Thank you for writing this - it was your posts in the Spring that first got me really thinking about what was going on.

I wrote a couple of stories trying to use the ideas before Trespasser: see http://archiveofouro...g/series/306273. It is fascinating trying to use both logic and poetry to get a sense and a feel of what is going on.

I am now in a state of trying to pull the new ideas and images and emotions from Trespasser into those theories, and I will read through your ideas carefully as part of that. I wrote a few chapters of a third story just post-Trespasser trying to capture how I felt about the new revelations, but am still processing it as well so those are rather fragmentary.

Part of the interest is in how I might turn theory into action: if trying to save Solas is it still worth exploring the DLC content or playing a new game and doing the trials? Today I explored the shattered library and found a new fear demon with a veilfire rune in a faraway place: it said "Behind you". Somehow there is always more truth to find... It's just... Where do you look first?
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#4
Rekkampum

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*on the floor lays a corpse, of a person who appears to have been in a violent altercation. His clothes however, aren't torn or damaged and there are no visible bruises or injuries on his body. In spite of what was clearly a fatal incident, everything else in the room remains almost pristine and undisturbed. There are no traces of gunpowder or evidence of gunfire or foul play whatsoever, which is strange, because that would indicate that the victim's head randomly exploded. The only clue that remains appears to be the last webpage the victim had visited. A thread of some sort.*


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#5
Caritas_Lavellan

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But was it fate or chance?

#6
Zana

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While I disagree with some of your speculations, and think you are reading a bit too deep into some of the presented symbolism, I have found your post to certainly be thought provoking and interesting.

 

But I am not sure I agree with your placement of RBG ME3 endings.  I think you are right in believing that's what the choices were meant to represent (by Bioware), however in terms of game content, they do not align on the chaos/order scale but on stupidly scale.  Let's leave ME3 out of this as that discussion is a dead horse I am would rather not beat on this thread.



#7
ADelusiveMan

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tumblr_lm5178XCM71qk7hkdo1_250.gif

 

This is why I love this site....never see this stuff anywhere else.  Really though, great theory.  The depth you went into here is just awesome.  I'm going to be watching for more of your stuff



#8
leaguer of one

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1. the quote by Cole“Sometimes the cow takes your gold.”  Is a Mass effect reference.

 

2.I have to agree with the theory that the elves used to be bounded to the sun. And the elves post freedom being connected in their own network is true to a fault. We see this with the well of Sorrows. All the power and knowledge it has and it enslaves them to a god.

 

3. The time travel bit is a stretch. Solas used the statement "burn in the chaos". I think that means burning the world.

 

4.The reincarnation bit....No.... why? magic is not bounded to just the fade which we see in descent and the source of magic for everyone else is the fade. A being is a product of the energies of the waking world and fade. And a soul just goes back to that.



#9
Caritas_Lavellan

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Here are some thoughts to add to the mix.

1. The codex http://dragonage.wik...igns_of_Victory suggests that the Earth spirit is identified with Elgar'nan not Mythal.

The pages of this book—memory?—describe a monument made in a single afternoon by a thousand-thousand toiling servants swarming over a lump of fallen stone as large as a collapsed mountain. By the end of the day, the stern figure of Elgar'nan stares down into a valley, carved out from the foothills of the rock. The slaves have disappeared. Light radiates from the eidolon's narrowed eyes and its open, snarling mouth. "Hail Elgar'nan, first among the gods! Mark his victory eternal!"

The mural from the Deep Roads and its associated veilfire codex state that Mythal struck down the pillars of the earth, and suggest that this was a splitting into Falon'Din (raised hand with ?sun) and Dirthamen (eight-pronged star, possibly moon), when linked with Dalish legends about the calming of Elgar'nan by Mythal and the creation of the moon. The mural in the Shattered Library (Vir'Dirthara) may suggest that Dirthamen is also associated with the creation of the veil. I note that there are mosaics of Falon'Din in the part of the library that has books not yet written. This suggests that Falon'Din (saviour, prophet, hope) looks forward to the future, and Dirthamen (wisdom, memory, pride) looks back to the past. Hence with the veil also comes time. Fen'Harel is the wolf of the present - this moment. This may give another explanation of the Fen'Harel mural with the split head? Dirthamen cannot communicate with Falon'Din but perhaps they are bound in the same body somehow.

See e.g. http://dragonage.wik..._the_Deep_Roads

2. I have this instinct that time is circular, or at least that Solas believes it is. How else would one have an eternity of torment? Is he compelled to keep Falon'Din a prisoner mage (with Dirthamen as templar) except for a brief period at the end of each cycle when Falon'Din (or Elgar'nan?) becomes Lusacan? I know he says he is Fen'Harel, but he is still omitting information: he says he does not want you to see what he will become. Whatever it is, it is clearly worse to Lavellan (or other inquisitors) than being the great adversary in the Dalish people's mythology. So I suspect an archdemon, and/or Elgar'nan at true power - the mighty Earth eidolon (to quote Whitman) in all its rage and fury. So different from the scholar who sought to save his world - scholar's retreat in the library, and hugely different from the "quiet elven mage" persona he has with Lavellan.

3. I tried in my story Under the Fresco to find some way of explaining "the mystery of June" and how he and Sylaise might fit in: perhaps a hopeful future where peace is achieved? The codex http://dragonage.wik...g_the_Sonallium gives a new reference to Sylaise and June, but I still think the most interesting information is contained in the Temple of Mythal and the gold/silver/bronze mosaic of June there. It suggests that there is a way to achieve peace, and perhaps an escape from the torment of circular time. Mind you, that Temple is broken, so maybe there is no hope there either.

4. Solas cares about Ghilan'nain as well as Mythal. As well as the bear-halla frescoes (Dirthamen/Ghilan'nain), he likes the peacefulness of Ghilan'nain's grove. It could be just impatience with Kenric, but he sighs in the Temple of Razikale at the shrine with Andraste holding up the double hart of Ghilan'nain. He takes Lavellan to Crestwood with the double hart to tell her/break up. The first female statue in the Raw Fade is a headless woman carrying a ?ram's head (?Ghilan'nain) - Mythal only comes later (dragon lady statue as in her Temple). I do wonder whether if time is circular then Lavellan is identified with Ghilan'nain - the one he must leave at the end and beginning of time? "They say that Ghilan'nain was one of the People, in the days before Arlathan."

5. Could it be that the Evanuris is corrupted because each one loves the next in turn? I.e. Ghilan'nain loved Elgar'nan, who loved Mythal, who loved Falon'Din... There's a lot of scope for envy there, and it might explain the references to husband/brother, wife/sister etc. I am intrigued that the Spirit of Wisdom died at Enavuris - an anagram.

(Edit: also the left hand / right hand imagery suggests morganatic marriage / marriage to me, and think about Dorian's history in that context.)

I'm sure I won't be right about all of these, but perhaps it gives food for further thought?
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#10
Caritas_Lavellan

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Three further thoughts:

6. Time need not be circular but could instead be represented the infinity symbol (lemniscate). This appears in Dorian's tarot card, and I do suspect Dorian of either already knowing more time magic than he lets on (listen to his banter and there are multiple hints), or going to learn it soon in order to help save the world. This might mean that there are two lobes to time: one in which Fen'Harel is male (Solas) and another in which Fen'Harel is female (Morrigan-Mythal?). This would give a reason why Solas doesn't want the Inquisitor to drink from the well of sorrows: it would mean that they would carry the burden of maintaining time. The Vir'Abelasan may be too much for a mortal to comprehend, says Abelas.

7. I also wonder a lot about Razikale, the female Old God, the dragon of mystery. If there is going to be a happy ending for the world (and/or for Solas and Lavellan) I suspect it has to involve her somehow.

8. The question that Solas keeps asking pre-Trespasser is - how has Corypheus gained effective immortality? In Trespasser he says he did not foresee this. This is another sign of hope that the tormented cycle of time might be able to be broken: Solas does not know everything. In this context Dorian Pavus' name is interesting: Dorian Gray (Wilde), Pavus (peacock) - possibly he ends up as Corypheus, sacrificing himself for the world and finally freeing all of the slaves? It's a long stretch but Dorian is a very clever chap, and a real heart beats beneath all the bluster and vanity. I identify him with Falon'Din: the good Tevinter, the saviour? I think DA4 could give him a very interesting journey should the writers choose that. This would fit with replacing a broken elven mage Evanuris cycle of gods with a very diverse mortal company saving their diverse mortal world.
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#11
Rekkampum

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*twirls moustache*

Yes... yes... do continue.



#12
Caritas_Lavellan

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*accepts proferred glass hoping it is not poisoned, and continues*

9. How much of Trespasser is real, and how much is in the Inquisitor's head? (And what is real, anyway?) There is far more magic around than when we were at the Winter Palace for the ball in DAI. How does Varric (the writers, St Peter) get the key to let you open the eluvians (the keys to "heaven")? There are hints all around that you are in the Fade or something not quite real, even "outside" of the Crossroads. I felt while playing it that it was as if I was in Lavellan's head trying to make sense of Solas/Fen'Harel, with the anchor giving me these visions/dreams. And you white-out at the end as your hand disintegrates and you lose your connection to Fen'Harel.

10. The names of the Orlesian and Fereldan ambassadors: Lord Cyril de Montfort (Cyril, Kyrillos, lord; Montfort, strong mountain and also the leader of the Albigensian Crusade); Teagan Guerrin (Teagan, poet; Guerrin, guard). On the right and left hands of the Divine.

11. Gold and black - the gold-and-ebon mace, bees, honey - lots of references. Also Tevinter's black divine versus Orlesian gold. The codex about the duel of a hundred years with Elgar'nan and Falon'Din's champions fighting (gold beats black). I am not sure which way round their colours are yet: Elgar'nan is the eldest of the sun, defeats the sun and Falon'Din the god of death and fortune. It feels like it could be either way around, and perhaps that is deliberate too. The Saga of Tyrdda suggests that gold is protected by a silver shield (moon, Dirthamen-Templar?) and the Avvar lore suggests that Korth the mountain father hid his heart in a golden cask.

12. Are Falon'Din and Fen'Harel meant to be identified as true/false Sun? In an eclipse the sun turns black. There are half-hidden mosaics in the library which hint at this. Also, who is Saarath? The term is close to Solas in sound, and he has rift mage abilities. Who is really playing this game of chess, and at what stage do we need to become Alice and destroy the game board? (It is her cat that is the Red Queen.)

https://en.m.wikiped...e_Looking-Glass


Rabbit holes indeed. Time for a cup of tea I think!
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#13
BansheeOwnage

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“If you leave and come back, the chest gives you another.  That’s how we know too much.”

“Sometimes the cow takes your gold.”

I feel kind of bad because I haven't read your whole post, but as someone else said, the bottom line is a Mass Effect reference, and the top line is a joke about an exploit where you take everything from a chest except one item, then next time you enter the area all of the items will be back. It's in line with Cole referencing movies or making fun of other things in meta-ways.



#14
madrar

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1. the quote by Cole“Sometimes the cow takes your gold.”  Is a Mass effect reference.

 

2.I have to agree with the theory that the elves used to be bounded to the sun. And the elves post freedom being connected in their own network is true to a fault. We see this with the well of Sorrows. All the power and knowledge it has and it enslaves them to a god.

 

3. The time travel bit is a stretch. Solas used the statement "burn in the chaos". I think that means burning the world.

 

4.The reincarnation bit....No.... why? magic is not bounded to just the fade which we see in descent and the source of magic for everyone else is the fade. A being is a product of the energies of the waking world and fade. And a soul just goes back to that.

 

1.  Yes and no.   I'm aware of the SLC, and it fits the same broad parallel.  Still, I think Projekt Red unwittingly tossed the DA writers an even better option and they ran with it.  The mosaics we find in the Sanctuary suggest a direct connection between the powers gained by the Dread Wolf and the draining of Mythal.  This is the "milking of the celestial cow": a warped reflection of Mythal/Earth's role in wide array of real-world mythologies.  Importantly, the broader timeline also suggests that this is a cyclical pattern.  Each of the major turning points in history appears to be punctuated by the death/sacrifice of the triad "wife" figure and subsequent assumption of her power by her "killer"- the most recent example (of course) being the stinger scene at the end of DAI.   This maps remarkably well to the idea of the Witcher exploit, in which cows are cyclically slaughtered for personal gain.  But Cole's comment reminds us that not all attempted revolutions have worked to Chaos' advantage, and Mythal has spent countless ages preparing an act of vengeance, a "reckoning that will shake the very heavens".  

 

2-4.  I... disagree?   Can't really respond aside from that though, since I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say in spots.  ("Magic is not bounded to just the fade which we see in descent and the source of magic for everyone else is the fade"?)   I believe what we know of as "the Fade" in game is actually the spirit of the larger being to which it belongs.  The concept seems to be fractal- the spirits of Thedas are held within its soul, just as whoever drank from the Well of Sorrows now holds those spirits within their own, etc.   Most sentient beings are connected to this fade by default, as our "soul" is the element of our being that was initially provided by Mythal.  (Earth granted physical form, the Sun our will, the "fire" in our blood, and Elgar'nan the "spark of life".)   However, DA offers examples of connection to alternate fades: Dwarves and their connection to the fledgling soul of the developing Stone, Wardens' nightmares and their connection to the fade of the Darkness, etc.  Darkspawn appear to be "soulless" in terms of our fade, and yet they have access to magic.  In theory, this ability draws from the same source as the Wardens' nightmares: the dark Fade of an entirely different Titan.

 

<snip>

 

 (((@w@)))

 

So many interesting ideas.   Need to let them percolate for a bit since some are a dramatic shift from my own, but absolutely worth the brain space.  (Dorian as Tevinter's "redemptive peacock" and inversion / reflection of Corypheus is really interesting.  Still Pride, but embodying its constructive aspect as agent of change.  Nice catch on "Enavuris" as well!  That slipped right by me.)   And though the thought is still raw and unpolished in my head, one of the pieces I can't resist is your observation about the black and gold Attendants and their Queen.  

 

This connects to a side-theory I didn't bother getting into in the original post, because it doesn't exactly play well with the larger themes as we currently understand them.   Still, it's possible that lyrium is not endemic to Thedas.  

 

In this scenario, it would have arrived with the elven exodus in the aftermath (or leadup, if the split was early) of the fall of Arlathan.  It would have been a key component in terraforming the lesser 'echo' for use as both continued power source and incubator, making the Titans something akin to a planted graft- though that’s a bit too symbiotic a concept.  The more codices we uncover about the fitfully sleeping, terrified, despairing Earth, the harder it is to shake the haunting thought of Glyptapanteles.   I’ve touched on the basic theory of the Stone being a fetal Primordial God, offspring of Mythal, in other posts- but this would be a much darker conception.  This conceives of the larval Stone taking shape within an anesthetized Earth, a paralyzed entity whose body is being slowly consumed from within by the Titans as they feed and guide the Stone’s growth.  This idea would cast a far different light on Mythal’s potential adjustment to the dwarven race, a parallel that runs closer to Cordyceps Unilateralis: the insertion of a lyrium network repurposing the Earth’s natural immune system, tricking infected dwarves into defending the Stone instead of attacking the foreign tissue.  (The idea is strongly hinted at by the nature of deep mushrooms, which we find sprouting from the corpses of spiders, Cordyceps-style.  Coincidentally, deep mushroom is a required component for upgraded lyrium potions, as well as being the factor that adds wasps to our Jar of Bees recipe.)

 

"In this place we prepare to hunt the pillars of the earth. Their workers scurry, witless, soulless. This death will be a mercy. We will make the earth blossom with their passing."

 

Though the nature of these pillars is still unclear, the codex’s broader implications are not.   Taking the “parasitic wasp” perspective would paint them as some kind of defensive element directing the primordial dwarves, an impediment to Titan implantation and the subsequent ‘bloom’ of lyrium production. Cole's new banter "He died in the dark so a blue rose could bloom" offers a tempting connection to Solas' description of the free dwarves as the "severed arm of a once mighty hero".  It seems possible the reference could have been a Pillar of Earth- one that fell in battle with Mythal's forces deep beneath the early Deep Roads.

 

But we run into a conceptual rough spot there.  The ToM codex suggests it was written in an era before the dwarves were modified- they’re “witless, soulless”, standing in contrast to those with “dreams” granted by Mythal as described by the Dalish lullaby in the Deep Roads codex.  Trying to fit the Sha-Brytol and modern dwarves into this framework runs headlong into an apparent contradiction: the faction that seems to be mindlessly defending the Titan isn’t the faction that has an innate (though latent) ‘network’ connection to the Stone.   Piled on top is the distinction between the Stone and the “Mother”, the need for protective suits, the implied vulnerability to lyrium, the possibility that their role could be more watch guard than defender, driving outsiders away to prevent reinfection…  Something about the whole scenario still just doesn’t sit right in my head yet. 

 

Anyway!  Red herring or not, there are a number of other elements that seem placed to lead us down the trail of Black/White/Gold Drones and the Queen.  My first interpretation of the Skyhold banner centered around this idea: three Wills converging on a central, fertile point of Possibility- vying with one another to decide which will triumph.  Three drones, one egg.  And since the nature of the emergent Queen would be defined by the influence of the minds that shaped her, this would essentially be a battle of ideology: the Sun (Chaos) the False Sun (Order) and Solas (Balance) each attempting to “fertilize” the world with an idea.  

 

...a fight Solas seems to be losing quite badly in modern Thedas.

 

Spoiler

 
This perspective adds additional nuance to Solas' description of Sera as being "apart from herself", "the furthest from what [she was] meant to be".  In theory, Andruil is an echo of Mythal/Earth- as Artemis to Hera, or the Archangel Michael to the Christian God: a fragment of a Queen, the essence of Order.  Her tarot card and vallaslin may point to this a bit: the direction of her arrow evokes the image of "punching down"- keeping the lower ranks in file, the precise opposite of her current nature.  Sera's journal might also offer an explanation why that might be, and what defines the characteristic of the new 'echo' as the timeline is reset.
 
Spoiler
 
The interesting point is her intuition that she "gets to keep something"- apparently the essence of a memory, or an idea.  This might explain the reactionary nature of each cycle in terms of understanding these echoes as a kind of 'reincarnation'.  For both Father Time and Mother Earth, the idea that defines the new fragment seems to map to the precise cause behind the reset, the lesson learned by their incarnation in the previous playthrough.  Thus the excesses of Elgar'nan are followed by Dirthamen-Falon'Din as an avatar of Balance, just as Fen'Harel follows D-F'D's failure to dismantle the Pantheon as an avatar of Rebellion, and so on.
 
But that's in some very shaky tinfoil territory, and veering a bit off topic.  Getting back to the idea of the Drones and the Queen, one of the interesting parallels we can draw here is not bees or wasps, but grasshoppers or locusts.  The two are actually the same creature: the grasshopper's original nature 'overwritten' by the production of serotonin, a connective neurotransmitter that transforms them from solitary insects to members of a unified and voracious swarm.  Not only do their instincts change, but their external appearance as well: a series of molts transforms the original green grasshopper into the tri-colored locust.  Gold, black, and white.
 
Spoiler
 

I'm reluctant to draw any direct lines of implication here though, since the idea of this 'new swarm' still needs to mesh with the parallels we've drawn elsewhere from bee/wasp hive structure.  Tellingly, the wolf statues we find in the deep roads are described as holding a secondary place with respect to Mythal: "not in a spot of honor, but guarding, attending".  The function of the Sentinels of the Temple of Mythal seems to be a possible hint at bee/wasp social structure as well- an almost direct translation of sentinels guarding the hive.  Their armor underscores the potential connection: sleek and chitinous, with evocative details like their overlapping saboton plates' faint suggestion of insect tarsi and claws.  

 

Spoiler

 

The larger connection of course, being a return to the idea of the Gods as a "hive mind".  Consider Eluvia, a constellation closely associated with Razikale and by extension, Mythal and Earth.  Her literal depiction is a figure whose head is “in the clouds”, a fitting image for a goddess of the Fade, given its connection to the realm of dreams and possibility, but with a secondary meaning that’s more relevant here.  Given current theory about the nature of the Titans, the mind of the being itself is the cloud.  This is the mind as a distributed network of collaborative individuals – the “self” of the larger being formed from the sum of its parts.  (Which of course has a wide array of mirror concepts in the real world, from cloud computing to microbial intelligence.)  I believe the "Titan" we encountered in Descent may be conceptually closer to a localized cluster of nerves or ganglia than an organism in and of itself- a semi-autonomous 'mini brain' along the neural relay.  It can move the ground in its direct vicinity, but is no longer connected to the larger whole.  And whether that larger entity would be the body of the slain Titan Earth, or the echo that is Thedas is still something I'm spinning in circles about.

 

Fortunately, at least for now, it doesn't matter.  ^w^   As interesting as it is to play with the idea of Mythal as a primordial inorganic, parasitic space-wasp or conceive of the ancient elves as a swarm of feasting locusts, the concept exists on the bare fringes of plausible theory given the lore we have at hand.  

 

Will be back in a bit with some (hopefully saner) thoughts on the other murals while I wait for things to settle in my brain.  


  • Elista, carefulsally et Caritas_Lavellan aiment ceci

#15
Caritas_Lavellan

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Glad you like the ideas! Here's some more.

 

13. Extending the cloud analogy, what do you think of drawing the parallel that Eluvia is a cloud-concept - she is the (set-theoretic) union of all Lavellans (or Mythals if you wish), that she exists as we play her? From http://dragonage.wik...lation:_Eluvia:"During the Glory Age, folklore told of a young woman saved from a lustful mage by being sent into the sky by her father - after which the mage killed him (hence the sacrifice)."

 

Or is this Eluvia also the Avvar's Lady of the Skies? If you associate it with Andruil (which is harder to match to Razikale I think), potentially the mage here is female, and Tyrdda's saga applies: Tyrdda's leaf-eared lover, laughing lady of the skies. At a stretch Mythal is the mage and this represents Elgar'nan as Earth / titan being sundered. http://dragonage.wik...e,_Avvar-Mother, fifth stanza: 

 

Lightning split the spitting rains,
Sundered over prideful heights,
Dragon fell in rubble down,
Crashed and crushed in earth's mad shaking.

 

On the other hand if you associate this with [blessed] Sylaise and [clever] June, with Elgar'nan as the father, and link it to the paired (wedding?) rituals in the Temple of Mythal which are based around Sylaise and June, there are (at least) two interpretations of "sky" here. One is "into the Fade" and the other is "into our world". This then suggests a supplantation of Elgar'nan by June. (Sera doesn't like the rituals.)

 

It's hard to get a consistent translation (Proto-Elven-Avvar?) between Elven and Avvar lore, although there are obvious connections (bears, wolves etc.), and I wonder whether this is because some of these legends are yet to happen, so it could depend even on whether you choose to romance Solas or Sera. "It's the Fade, they are all true."

 

14. When Solas says in the romance scene in Crestwood, "I know what you truly are, and you deserve better than what those cruel marks represent. You are unique. You have a rare and marvellous spirit etc." - what do you think he means? Three options have occurred to me so far: that Lavellan is an incarnation of a spirit of love; and/or that Solas is able to tell that your character is connected to something outside Thedas: the unique "real" player; and/or that Lavellan is a reincarnation of someone who died that mattered to him. (Ok, yes, final option: he could be lying, but let's assume he's not.)

 

15. We haven't mentioned the Forbidden Ones: they seem to map to the four horsemen of the apocalypse, who are too common a trope not to be found somewhere! "They were given power over a fourth of the earth," so are these also "pillars of the earth"? http://dragonage.wik...Forbidden_Ones 

 

I've wondered whether Solas/Fen'Harel is actually the Formless One. That would fit with the fourth horseman of the apocalypse / Archangel Michael role / the one who fights dragons. Note the horn he carries on his backpack, and also that the fourth horseman is Death (the dinan'shiral etc.) This duality between Death / doombringer / oncoming storm and Archangel Michael / the soldier would fit Solas as Falon'Din / Dirthamen. As his attempts to keep balance get harder, he oscillates ever more wildly between the extremes of "good" and "evil". And in this context I remember what he says sadly in Trespasser about "War breeds fear. Fear breeds a desire for simplicity. Good and evil. Right and wrong. Chains of command." - has he been trying for aeons to be the grey (silver) warden, not a checkerboard of black and white (or black and gold)?

 

Finally: "he named himself after the horse" (Cole banter): well, this could be a reference to Philip of Burgundy (Joan of Arc times), with Philip = lover of horses; or the Pride of Arlathan; or it could be a further reference to these horsemen (am I riding in on a shining steed?).



#16
Caritas_Lavellan

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As interesting as it is to play with the idea of Mythal as a primordial inorganic, parasitic space-wasp or conceive of the ancient elves as a swarm of feasting locusts, the concept exists on the bare fringes of plausible theory given the lore we have at hand.  

 

 

I'll bite (or maybe sting), because this is hard to resist! I'll have a go at taking the bee/wasp imagery further in the next story I write: Not that kind of wolf

 

It'll take a while to get to the Trespasser / post-Trespasser chapters, but I'll look out for references to insects and hives as I trace the path through the story up to the defeat of Corypheus. The shrine where you first activate one of Solas' elven artifacts has a really odd range of statuary, which I'd be interested to hear other takes on.



#17
TheChosenOne

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8a4f5383c45d3960a60c14445fe627e1.gif

 

This is one amazing theory. I can tell you work very hard on this! But i gotta say, the “He didn’t kill his father. He was his father.” line from Cole is a direct reference to Star Wars about Luke's father.

 

tumblr_mo5zvkeiYE1s4rha3o4_500.gif 

 

But the other two could very well be important! Gonna follow this thread now  



#18
Caritas_Lavellan

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Yes, indeed. But there's nothing stopping Cole's banters being both references to films and also relevant to Thedas lore. As Solas might say, "It's the Fade: they are both true."
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#19
Fredward

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That was incredibly sexy.

 

But PLEASE NO JESUS NOT TIME TRAVEL.



#20
duckley

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WOW op .... just wow.... :wub:



#21
SwobyJ

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Yes, indeed. But there's nothing stopping Cole's banters being both references to films and also relevant to Thedas lore. As Solas might say, "It's the Fade: they are both true."

 

^ This.

 

An extra-media reference can still be fashioned to be part of internal story.



#22
electrifried

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I love the time travel analogy -that Solas is effectively 'starting a new save' but pieces remain. I can see how that would work and it also explains Sera and Cole's dialogue a lot. I actually wouldn't be opposed to some time travel in DA4 and that sounds like a really interesting mechanic for the future game. If something like that does happen I can imagine it would be an opportunity to go further into the history and foundation of the elvish lore and how it connects to the Chantry interpretation (and maybe also the dwarves/qun origins?).



#23
SomberXIII

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Speechless!



#24
leaguer of one

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1.  Yes and no.   I'm aware of the SLC, and it fits the same broad parallel.  Still, I think Projekt Red unwittingly tossed the DA writers an even better option and they ran with it.  The mosaics we find in the Sanctuary suggest a direct connection between the powers gained by the Dread Wolf and the draining of Mythal.  This is the "milking of the celestial cow": a warped reflection of Mythal/Earth's role in wide array of real-world mythologies.  Importantly, the broader timeline also suggests that this is a cyclical pattern.  Each of the major turning points in history appears to be punctuated by the death/sacrifice of the triad "wife" figure and subsequent assumption of her power by her "killer"- the most recent example (of course) being the stinger scene at the end of DAI.   This maps remarkably well to the idea of the Witcher exploit, in which cows are cyclically slaughtered for personal gain.  But Cole's comment reminds us that not all attempted revolutions have worked to Chaos' advantage, and Mythal has spent countless ages preparing an act of vengeance, a "reckoning that will shake the very heavens".  

 

2-4.  I... disagree?   Can't really respond aside from that though, since I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say in spots.  ("Magic is not bounded to just the fade which we see in descent and the source of magic for everyone else is the fade"?)   I believe what we know of as "the Fade" in game is actually the spirit of the larger being to which it belongs.  The concept seems to be fractal- the spirits of Thedas are held within its soul, just as whoever drank from the Well of Sorrows now holds those spirits within their own, etc.   Most sentient beings are connected to this fade by default, as our "soul" is the element of our being that was initially provided by Mythal.  (Earth granted physical form, the Sun our will, the "fire" in our blood, and Elgar'nan the "spark of life".)   However, DA offers examples of connection to alternate fades: Dwarves and their connection to the fledgling soul of the developing Stone, Wardens' nightmares and their connection to the fade of the Darkness, etc.  Darkspawn appear to be "soulless" in terms of our fade, and yet they have access to magic.  In theory, this ability draws from the same source as the Wardens' nightmares: the dark Fade of an entirely different Titan.

 
 

 

 

1. no. it's full on confirmed as just Mass effect reference. 

 

2. On a matter of source, magic does come from the fade and only the fade. the difference is translation. Lyuim in it self is connect to the fade. even if it comes from titan, it still is connect to the fade. It's not different then  magic being fired by the mage. just because it came from a person does not mean the origin is not the fade.

The issue is that translation is processed or how those line connect.



#25
leaguer of one

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^ This.

 

An extra-media reference can still be fashioned to be part of internal story.

 

Yes, indeed. But there's nothing stopping Cole's banters being both references to films and also relevant to Thedas lore. As Solas might say, "It's the Fade: they are both true."

That's jumping the gun here. Nothing in any way prove that Cole's reference has any resiliency to the games plot.