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[duckley]

According to Vivienne, some Circles seem to give Mages a lot of freedom. Other Circles (Kirkwall) seem to give no freedom. The White Spire allowed some freedom but then seriously curtailed it. The Ferelden circle seemed to allow some freedom (Wynn, military involvment) but also used Mages in battle. 

 

So I wonder why there is no reasonably consistent approach for governing Circles. You'd think the Chantry would have some basic  standards....Do any of those World of Thedas books delve more deeply into the the history of circle or explain the variances?

[The Night Haunter]

Each circle is treated differently. For example the Rivaini cirlce was basically a school, and people were free to come and go.

 

It is important to note that the Chantry is not all powerful, and any nation's army would be more powerful than the Templar's in their nation. Different nations have different customs, the Rivaini revere their Seers, thus mages are granted special treatment there. Kirkwall, on the other hand, had a small military force and a large Templar garrison, plus it had a weak ruler who bowed to the Templar's whims, allowing the Templars to be stricter there than elsewhere. 

 

Think of the Chantry like a 14th or 15th century catholic church, very powerful politically, fairly weak militarily (as evidenced by the numerous failed attempts by Italian Pope's to conquer various regions of Italy). The ability for the Pope to directly influence a nation was limited. In England the King officially broke from the church with some upheavel, but his nation survived the transition. France was fairly catholic, but even they often sided against the pope when his will conflicted with French interests (the Hundred Years War is a notable example).

 

Circles exist in sovereign nations, and as such are subject to those nations laws and customs.

[actionhero112]

Cultural attitudes shift per nation. 

 

Templars and Mages don't come from one city, they don't all have the same background. It's natural that a templar recruited in Orlais, and a templar recruited in Ferelden, are going to have differing ideas on what their job constitutes and how to treat their charges. 

 

I have an friend who is Muslim and one of the five pillars of Islam is that you have to travel to Mecca. He told me that the way they worship in mosques in Mecca is different than in America. I imagine it's the same for the Chantry, in that worship differs nation by nation slightly. 

[Absafraginlootly]

Each circle is treated differently. For example the Rivaini cirlce was basically a school, and people were free to come and go.

 

*snip*

 

One of the many reasons I hope we get to visit Rivain in a future game.

[Daerog]

The Chantry oversees the Circle, but the Circle is governed by the Enchanters. The Senior Enchanters meet every year (I think) to discuss Circle policy and such. They are still subject to Chantry oversight and can be overruled on stuff, but if a Circle wasn't causing problems, they could do a lot... within the Circle. A mage had to gain trust to wander freely (Finn, Wynne, Wynne's botanist friend, etc.).

 

Where they are has a lot to do with how the Circles operate. Tevinter's Circle was so different because of mage nobility, that it broke off from the other Circles and pretty much has control over the Imperial Chantry and nation of Tevinter.

[duckley]

Thanks - so not all Circles are "bad" - but rather they may reflect the predominant view that a particular nation has of Mages?

 

Clearly the power that the Senior Enchanters have differ as well I guess. Orsino seemed pretty weak....

 

So your experience as a Mage will differ depending upon which Circle you are part of, what your country of origin thinks about Mages, the quality of your Senior Enchanter's leadership, and the changing political climate..

 

This would explain the fact that not all  Mages supported the Mage rebellion I suppose.

[Lumix19]

Thanks - so not all Circles are "bad" - but rather they may reflect the predominant view that a particular nation has of Mages?

Clearly the power that the Senior Enchanters have differ as well I guess. Orsino seemed pretty weak....

So your experience as a Mage will differ depending upon which Circle you are part of, what your country of origin thinks about Mages, the quality of your Senior Enchanter's leadership, and the changing political climate..

This would explain the fact that not all Mages supported the Mage rebellion I suppose.

And of course the strength of the Templars. I wouldn't say Orsino was weak per say, more that the Templars had great authority, especially under Meredith, because of their actions to overthrow Threnhold.

Also the attitude of the resident Grand Cleric probably plays a part as well.

[Daerog]

Orsino wasn't weak. He played the role of the victim and acted weak even though he practiced blood magic (no way was the boss fight his first time using blood magic I bet), broke the law, harbored a murderer, and sought ways to increase his position and power.

 

Meredith was right in her assumptions about blood magic, but her frustrations and fear caused her to fall to corruption and madness.

 

The Grand Cleric meant well, and thought that people would be reasonable and filled with good intentions... ya, that literally blew up in her face...

[TraiHarder]

Thanks - so not all Circles are "bad" - but rather they may reflect the predominant view that a particular nation has of Mages?

Clearly the power that the Senior Enchanters have differ as well I guess. Orsino seemed pretty weak....

So your experience as a Mage will differ depending upon which Circle you are part of, what your country of origin thinks about Mages, the quality of your Senior Enchanter's leadership, and the changing political climate..

This would explain the fact that not all Mages supported the Mage rebellion I suppose.

I wouldn't say Orsino was weak per say. I mean he could still walk out of the circles boundaries anytime he wanted to seem by the protest he gave. He has rights that other mages in the kirkwall circle don't.


But you got it right depending on where you are from and the view point of mates were your circle is located will mold how your circle can be run.

For example Vivienne obvious lead a very luxurious life style and a very privileged one. Even tho she was a mage she still was able to kill a man in a room full of people because that's how things work in Orlais. If a mage did that most likely anywhere else it would be a huge deal.

I highly doubt we'd ever get to see another circle again due to the fact that with it being such a big decision depending on your divine and what they do with the circles. I doubt they'll make a circle for those who choose a divine that keeps the circles.

[TraiHarder]

Orsino wasn't weak. He played the role of the victim and acted weak even though he practiced blood magic (no way was the boss fight his first time using blood magic I bet), broke the law, harbored a murderer, and sought ways to increase his position and power.

Meredith was right in her assumptions about blood magic, but her frustrations and fear caused her to fall to corruption and madness.

The Grand Cleric meant well, and thought that people would be reasonable and filled with good intentions... ya, that literally blew up in her face...

I don't think that Orsino was practicing blood magic for all that long to be honest. If anything he turned to it like a lot of mages in Kirkwall out of fear.

An I highly doubt he was looking to increase his power. When he clearly couldn't I mean he held the highest seat in the circle. Within kirkwall there was the Knight Commander, The Viscount, and the Grand Cleric none of which he would have ever really became more power than. If the circle was run Bette the could have been on even terms with the Knight Commander and been advisor to the Viscount on Arcane matters.

[Daerog]

He could always become Grand Enchanter and leave Kirkwall... I think... unless First Enchanters can't be Grand Enchanters. He could always use blood magic to mind control the Viscount, but would have to remove the Knight Commander and put a supporting puppet in her place.

 

Anyway, I agree that he was likely not always a blood mage. However, his letters to that one serial killer blood mage made him sound interested in the experiments and wanted to learn more. Why would Orsino want to know about blood magic? His letters did not sound like a fearful man, but a man enthralled by the knowledge of dark arts. Likely due to curiosity, but this is dangerous curiosity, the kind that people die from or become corrupt.

 

Just my theory, of course, as the letters were only signed by "O."

[Mr.House]

I don't think that Orsino was practicing blood magic for all that long to be honest. If anything he turned to it like a lot of mages in Kirkwall out of fear.

An I highly doubt he was looking to increase his power. When he clearly couldn't I mean he held the highest seat in the circle. Within kirkwall there was the Knight Commander, The Viscount, and the Grand Cleric none of which he would have ever really became more power than. If the circle was run Bette the could have been on even terms with the Knight Commander and been advisor to the Viscount on Arcane matters.

You don't just create and turn into a harvester at the drop of the hat. He had to know the ritual, what was required, what demon to summon ect. All of that had to be done with research and some practice. If all it took was some dead bodies, a demon and a some staff movement we would be neckdown deep in Harvesters by now.

[Vit246]

Lets all remember that the only reason Orsino knows blood magic to turn into a frakking harvester was because the developers wanted a mandatory boss fight. They did not care if it made sense or if was OOC for Orsino to use blood magic especially in that way.

[Daerog]

It was not OOC for Orsino. The poor victim role was an act. The letters Hawke finds when looking for his/her mother imply that Orsino knew about this blood mage killer and encouraged his experiments.

 

Don't get me wrong, Orsino did care for the mages, he just didn't care about anyone else. So, ya, he was upset and filled with rage to see his charges butchered as they were.

 

Orsino and Meredith probably had good intentions going in, but Orsino fell to corruption first and Meredith followed.

[NaclynE]

According to Vivienne, some Circles seem to give Mages a lot of freedom. Other Circles (Kirkwall) seem to give no freedom. The White Spire allowed some freedom but then seriously curtailed it. The Ferelden circle seemed to allow some freedom (Wynn, military involvment) but also used Mages in battle. 

 

So I wonder why there is no reasonably consistent approach for governing Circles. You'd think the Chantry would have some basic  standards....Do any of those World of Thedas books delve more deeply into the the history of circle or explain the variances?

 

Well it depends on how they are governed I feel. Viviannes seemed to be well managed. The warden's in DAO seemed like they were well managed until the one mage guy got possessed and f'd up everything. Kirkwall's case was just very very very poor management because Meredeth was possessed by red Lyrium for a long long long time which made her rule with a iron fist and paranoic. Sadly the templars were working for her under fear because they or hear rumors that people would wind up dead or worse if they disobeyed her. Orsino sadly knew nothing about what Meredeth was doing behind the scenes AKA messing around with red lyrium and just assumed for years that she just had a mad desire to hate and kill mages. When Anders died those mages that felt well managed heard about Anders cause and death and acted like "yeah...i'm being mistreated too" and probably rose up as well. Sometimes like certain political causes when people hear things they want to rise up in their area and do it too.

 

As far as Tevintir it seems like you really need to poke around Dorian for a-lot on how Tevintir mages go and try to find any tevintir oriented books as you can because it seems how they handle their mages are far more stricter and far more political than Orlias or Ferelden. Heck the Black Divine (major hierarchy figure) is ran by a guy who is a high ended mage. This is deemed to be abnormal by Ferelden, Kirkwall, and Orlias means.

[Big I]

One of the many reasons I hope we get to visit Rivain in a future game.

 

The Rivaini Cirlce was Annulled by the Templars during the mage rebellion. Rivain still seems like an interesting place.

[Absafraginlootly]

The Rivaini Cirlce was Annulled by the Templars during the mage rebellion. Rivain still seems like an interesting place.

Alas 

[The Night Haunter]

The Rivaini Cirlce was Annulled by the Templars during the mage rebellion. Rivain still seems like an interesting place.

 

 

Alas 

I'm sure there were survivors. Not to mention some of the 'Seers' were never part of the circle to begin with. Rivain is a very interesting place, and the Chant they worship there is vastly different than the one in Val Royeaux. Plus they have a fair sized minority of Qunari (not the race I believe, just the followers). It is definitely an place I want to see more of.

[TobiTobsen]

It also depends on the views and personality of the Knight Commander and the First Enchanter and their relationship.

 

A circle like Ferelden got **** done because Greagoir and Irving had a amicable and friendly connection, that allowed them to talk things through and reach a benefical conclusion for everybody, even if they didn't agreed on everything.

On the other hand we have the Kirkwall circle which was such a wreck because Meredith and Orsino were to busy antagonizing each other. That led to the vicious cycle of paranoia, hostility and ultimately bloodshed we were able to witness in DAII