64 réponses à ce sujet

[RoboticWater]

Man, maybe Bioware should try to make stealth work. Aren't there enough games that mix the whole stealth and action stuff while having large or decently sized levels?

 

Saying it's too much work sounds like an excuse sometimes.

Yes, some games pull it off. Stealth games, where the game doesn't want to insta-fail you for failing stealth. That's the way it's worked since the days of Theif and Deus Ex.

 

I'm not saying it's not possible, but BIoWare already have a fun game dynamic that has a lot of moving parts (inside and out of combat) and a distinct feel. They shouldn't rebulid it or make massive additions to it because they'll either break the existing fun or spread themselves too thin. Would stealth be cool? Sure. It'd also be nice to have massively intricate dialog trees, a deep melee combat system, and fully fleshed out ship combat too, but some things just aren't practical.

 

Stealth would be some relatively extensive AI, level design, and gameplay additions effectively to cater to a single class. That effort would be better served enhancing the existing game feel.

[Zatche]

We know there's precedent for Action/RPG/Shooter games with optional full recon stealth (Deus Ex, Dishonored). But is there a precedent for party based Action/RPG/Shooter games with optional full recon stealth? How would such a game work? In order for you to go full recon, would you temporarily leave party members behind when you felt like it? Would you have to leave party members behind for the full mission? Would you just bring only other Infiltrator squad members with you?

[Seboist]

We know there's precedent for Action/RPG/Shooter games with optional full recon stealth (Deus Ex, Dishonored). But is there a precedent for party based Action/RPG/Shooter games with optional full recon stealth? How would such a game work? In order for you to go full recon, would you temporarily leave party members behind when you felt like it? Would you have to leave party members behind for the full mission? Would you just bring only other Infiltrator squad members with you?

 

https://en.wikipedia...actical_shooter

[Zatche]

https://en.wikipedia...actical_shooter

 

ME, as it stands, is more run-and-gun than tactical, no? Well, there are some tactical options, but the gameplay itself isn't quite centered or balanced around it.

 

I'm just imagining that I bring a character like Grunt along with my Infiltrator and he blows my cover by starting to shotgun everything, ruining my attempt at Deus Ex style ghosting. The best case scenario is he waits until I start firing, and it's more, as earlier posts suggest, of a Far Cry level of stealth.

[fchopin]

I would not mind some stealth in mass effect.

[Mdizzletr0n]

Yes please!

As far as making it work, you could just not take the party with you at certain points. Handling every situation with kill everybody on the map gets old pretty quickly (speaking for myself) and stealth would allow for players more ways to be more of the character they'd like to be. As far as the AI, they'd have to make them more "alive" as opposed to just camping in the same spot waiting to get the jump on you. Walking around, talking with each other, etc. Would that really be all that difficult?

[Inquisitor_Jonah]

I would be ok with stealth gameplay, but only in specific missions. And you have to go solo, like in the arrival DLC. I don't want to get caught just because my companions have shitty AI

[Cheviot]

ME1 and ME2 already had a stealth mechanic; no matter how damaged the Mako or Hammerhead got, they were fixed and ready when you next needed them.

 

The problem with actual stealth in Mass Effect is the fact you have 2 NPCs around you most of the time.

[KingofTime]

Not a bad idea.

[SNascimento]

It certainly doesn't need one... not every shooter needs a stealth mechanic. But as any game, MEA would benefit from a well implemented feature. Stealth is a interesting concept, but not as easy to implement in Mass Effect as it is in games in which your character is always or mostly alone. I haven't played MGSV yet, but for me, the benchmark in stealthy combat is Splinter Cell Blacklist. The easiness that you can move in that game and kill without being seen is extraordinary.

Also, this would be 97,34% new territory in the Mass Effect series. Some DLCs played a little bit with stealth elements, but that's me being very generous. Therefore the designers might not feel as confortable creating stealth gameplay as they would be to more common gameplay elements already present in the original trilogy.

If it's up to me, I'd implement sharpened helicopter blades and powered suits first. Unfortunately for the human race, only the latter seems probable at the moment. At least somekind of enhanced mobility as we saw glimpses of a jet-pack in the reveal trailer.

[rapscallioness]

Sometimes I just want to shoot things in the face. In a loud way-not only with my sniper rifle with a silencer on it. Although, that clean, quiet headshot is satisfying... But there are enough games for my stealth cravings.

 

I wanna blow shite up in ME:A.

[Zekka]

Yes, some games pull it off. Stealth games, where the game doesn't want to insta-fail you for failing stealth. That's the way it's worked since the days of Theif and Deus Ex.

 

I'm not saying it's not possible, but BIoWare already have a fun game dynamic that has a lot of moving parts (inside and out of combat) and a distinct feel. They shouldn't rebulid it or make massive additions to it because they'll either break the existing fun or spread themselves too thin. Would stealth be cool? Sure. It'd also be nice to have massively intricate dialog trees, a deep melee combat system, and fully fleshed out ship combat too, but some things just aren't practical.

 

Stealth would be some relatively extensive AI, level design, and gameplay additions effectively to cater to a single class. That effort would be better served enhancing the existing game feel.

I'm playing Splinter Cell and you don't always insta fail for failing at stealth. You have a gun to fix that problem.

 

I keep seeing this word fun thrown around a lot on the forums. A stealth mechanic can be fun evident by all the games that use it and all the people that like those games. Everything is fun to someone.

 

I don't really see the need for a deep melee system in a futuristic series with so many types of guns but I see the need more intricate dialogue trees in an rpg.

 

Having good level design and good AI is a good thing for the whole game and benefits everyone, not just the infiltrator class.

 

 

 

ME1 and ME2 already had a stealth mechanic; no matter how damaged the Mako or Hammerhead got, they were fixed and ready when you next needed them.

 

The problem with actual stealth in Mass Effect is the fact you have 2 NPCs around you most of the time.

I forgot that ME1 even allowed you to crouch. This should return in ME: Andromeda and going prone should also be added.

 

It would require more micro managing from the player or Bioware could program your squadmate AI to be better than it is.

[Cyonan]

I'm playing Splinter Cell and you don't always insta fail for failing at stealth. You have a gun to fix that problem.

 

I keep seeing this word fun thrown around a lot on the forums. A stealth mechanic can be fun evident by all the games that use it and all the people that like those games. Everything is fun to someone.

 

I don't really see the need for a deep melee system in a futuristic series with so many types of guns but I see the need more intricate dialogue trees in an rpg.

 

Having good level design and good AI is a good thing for the whole game and benefits everyone, not just the infiltrator class.

 

Splinter Cell, Thief, and Deus Ex also all have pretty terrible combat mechanics as well. I'm sure one exists, but I can't actually think of a game off the top of my head that had both good combat and good stealth(bonus points if it also has good exploration).

 

That's the main concern. Not that good stealth couldn't be done, but that it would come at the cost of the finally good action combat that we got in Mass Effect 3 after 2 games of it being mediocre at best. Better AI is great for everybody, but combat AI and stealth AI are two very different things.

 

When you try to do everything, you typically end up doing nothing well. We know there is going to be combat, probably melee, and an intricate dialogue systems. Those are all things that have always been in Mass Effect(even in melee was barely there in 1 and 2).

 

Having good solid combat mechanics should be more important than a stealth mechanic because combat has always been a core mechanic of the Mass Effect series.

[Larry-3]

An unlimited cloak that only deactivates when we shoot or take damage.

[SNascimento]

Splinter Cell, Thief, and Deus Ex also all have pretty terrible combat mechanics as well. I'm sure one exists, but I can't actually think of a game off the top of my head that had both good combat and good stealth(bonus points if it also has good exploration).

Splinter Cell Blacklist. 

[shodiswe]

If possible I would love to see it happen, with possible options for it.

It could even enable you to capture a prisoner alive and bring them back for interrogation and intel... I like having optional gameplay. Perhaps sneak upon them, take out the sentry and lockup the enemies in their barracks or get into their security office and turn their automated defences on them.

[Zekka]

Splinter Cell, Thief, and Deus Ex also all have pretty terrible combat mechanics as well. I'm sure one exists, but I can't actually think of a game off the top of my head that had both good combat and good stealth(bonus points if it also has good exploration).

 

That's the main concern. Not that good stealth couldn't be done, but that it would come at the cost of the finally good action combat that we got in Mass Effect 3 after 2 games of it being mediocre at best. Better AI is great for everybody, but combat AI and stealth AI are two very different things.

 

When you try to do everything, you typically end up doing nothing well. We know there is going to be combat, probably melee, and an intricate dialogue systems. Those are all things that have always been in Mass Effect(even in melee was barely there in 1 and 2).

 

Having good solid combat mechanics should be more important than a stealth mechanic because combat has always been a core mechanic of the Mass Effect series.

TBH the combat mechanics in Splinter Cell conviction were better than ME2 and they came out the same year and I'm hearing good things about Metal Gear Solid V & Splinter Cell Blacklists combat too

[capn233]

You can't really do much with stealth in a mass effect game since that only plays to one of six potential player classes.

 

So what is the mission going to be like if you aren't playing Infiltrator?  Just have to brute force your way through hordes of enemies?

 

Personally I don't think much is needed outside of a bit of aggro drop from TC.  Game probably won't get flanking damage bonuses, so it is bound to give straight damage bonuses and be fine.

[mickey111]

Both Deus Ex games play better than anything of Biowares. Game came out at a time when people were okay with the notion of starting off relatively crappy at shooting things, and even on from the very start at liberty island you could shoot pretty well with a sniper rifle with a bit of player skill, and accuracy was good enough to guarantee the eventual incapacitation of guards by with one poison dart.

[Mirrman70]

Stealth never really works when you have companions/squadmates... I remember in Skyrim and Fallout that if I wanted to stealth my way through places I would never bring a companion.

[Sanunes]

I rather they didn't, I want a Mass Effect game not Deus Ex game with a Mass Effect skin. Stealth mechanics for me have either been done well or done badly with no game I can think of between the extremes because of the amount of balancing required, BioWare already has to balance for six different classes and multiple different companions and I just can't see it working a way that people would enjoy.

[Cyonan]

TBH the combat mechanics in Splinter Cell conviction were better than ME2 and they came out the same year and I'm hearing good things about Metal Gear Solid V & Splinter Cell Blacklists combat too

 

To be honest, Mass Effect 2's combat wasn't that great in my opinion so being better than it isn't a huge accomplishment. I've not yet played Blacklist(I did get it recently in the humble bundle) but I know the rest of the SC series isn't really spectacular. Mass Effect 3 is the only game in the series I consider as having good action combat, by the way.

 

I just bought MGSV last night, so I'll see how good that does it. I'm hearing great things about that game in general right now.

 

Both Deus Ex games play better than anything of Biowares. Game came out at a time when people were okay with the notion of starting off relatively crappy at shooting things, and even on from the very start at liberty island you could shoot pretty well with a sniper rifle with a bit of player skill, and accuracy was good enough to guarantee the eventual incapacitation of guards by with one poison dart.

 

Human Revolution plays pretty badly as a straight up action shooter and the game heavily encourages you to play stealth. The original had too much RPG in it to be really good shooter gameplay. Not that it was bad mind you, just that when your weapon's accuracy is affected by character stats it generally doesn't result in good gunplay.

 

The gunplay of Mass Effect 3 is far better than that of any Deus Ex game.

[Xaijin]

Splinter Cell, Thief, and Deus Ex also all have pretty terrible combat mechanics as well. I'm sure one exists, but I can't actually think of a game off the top of my head that had both good combat and good stealth(bonus points if it also has good exploration).

That's the main concern. Not that good stealth couldn't be done, but that it would come at the cost of the finally good action combat that we got in Mass Effect 3 after 2 games of it being mediocre at best. Better AI is great for everybody, but combat AI and stealth AI are two very different things.

When you try to do everything, you typically end up doing nothing well. We know there is going to be combat, probably melee, and an intricate dialogue systems. Those are all things that have always been in Mass Effect(even in melee was barely there in 1 and 2).

Having good solid combat mechanics should be more important than a stealth mechanic because combat has always been a core mechanic of the Mass Effect series.

Wolfenstein TNO and AvP.

[spinachdiaper]

Stealth games have mostly died out for a good reason, Stealth games and or missions are the only thing worse than scourge known as escort missions.

[Ahglock]

Wolfenstein TNO and AvP.

 

I haven't played AvP but you are right, Wolfenstein TNO did a good job on both.  It wasn't a stealth game but you could use stealth and its combat was a very solid FPS.