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[Qun00]

She said Mythal is a part of her like a heart is in a chest.

That describes how strong is the connection keeping them together, not the amount of Mythal's essence that remains.

Well apparently there's enough to keep Flemeth around for a very long time, driving towards revenge. There's enough that Flemeth knows who Solas is. There's enough that Flemeth can turn into a dragon. There seems to be quite a bit, since she can break herself into pieces and survive.

Mythal can turn into a dragon??

[Reznore57]

That describes how strong is the connection keeping them together, not the amount of Mythal's essence that remains.

Mythal can turn into a dragon??

 

Well yes.

Flemeth can turn into a dragon , Morrigan can learn to turn into one after drinking from the Well.

There's numerous hints all Evanuris could do it , (and possibly all ancient elves) and it was seen as the Divine form.

[In Exile]

Well apparently there's enough to keep Flemeth around for a very long time, driving towards revenge. There's enough that Flemeth knows who Solas is. There's enough that Flemeth can turn into a dragon. There seems to be quite a bit, since she can break herself into pieces and survive.

Why does everyone take her at face value when she says that part? For all we know the betrayal she's referencing is what Solas did.

[Almostfaceman]

Why does everyone take her at face value when she says that part? For all we know the betrayal she's referencing is what Solas did.

 

Oh, no. In the Fade, there's an image of her being stabbed in the back and blood gushing everywhere (if Morrigan is chasing her son into the Fade through the Eluvian). She was murdered and she wants revenge. There's no reason to doubt any of that. it's what motivated Solas to put up the Veil in the first place. 

[In Exile]

Oh, no. In the Fade, there's an image of her being stabbed in the back and blood gushing everywhere (if Morrigan is chasing her son into the Fade through the Eluvian). She was murdered and she wants revenge. There's no reason to doubt any of that. it's what motivated Solas to put up the Veil in the first place.

There's plenty of reason to doubt it. She never lies to us, but she's never been - we see in hindsight - honest with our characters about herself or her purpose. She's never been honest with Morrigan. What makes you think THIS time is the time she decided to tell you the untarnished truth?

Solas being sent over the tipping point is very different from Mythal approving of his creation of the Veil, or his now planned mass genocide.

[In Exile]

Abelas said her murder had nothing to do with Fen'Harel and Solas said her death is what caused him to seal them away. She was already dead when he made the Veil, she didn't die because of it. Both her and Flemeth were betrayed by the one they loved, that's why they connected.

You're still conflating her death with the "betrayal" she mentioned. It's not that clear. She says "the world" was betrayed. That goes far beyond just her own murder. She's not a megalomaniac, as far as we can tell - she doesn't sound like she's saying the death of an Evanuris is a betrayal.

No, her "betrayal" is tied up in a world changing event. We think of her death as a simple thing - she died and all that was left was a wisp. But for all we know - in the pre-Veil world - she had a means to bring herself back, and that was ripped from her when the Veil was made.

I don't actually believe this theory. My point is only that people assume far too much based on a very vague rant by a character who's never been honest or direct onscreen.

[In Exile]

Personally I think they were working together when he awoke. She basically scolds him for giving his Orb to Corypheus like he was a little child who disobeyed. Do I think she's using him for her own gain? Yes, but not for revenge. She wants her murderers (who are still alive) to pay and Solas said if he had not created the Veil, they would have destroyed the world.

Solas didn't say that. He said the other options were "worse". We have no idea what that meant. His moral compass is insane - he thinks the mass genocide of everything is A-OK to make up for his sin of destroying the ancient elves.

Mythal's murderers are being punished - in whatever way the Veil punishes them. To say shes aligned with Solas means assuming not just that she wants to lash out at them but that she thinks there's an even worse fate she can inflcit on them.

I think that's reading too much into it. And misreading her line to Solas. She's forlorn - apologising to an old friend for the choices she's making because of his own. That's why her last time is the equivalent of "I'm sorry" - it's hinting that she's already sown the seeds of his downfall.

Solas as a villain is telling us something about the series: stop assuming people and their relationships are simple. Solas won't hesitate to kill untold scores of people. But he doesn't wish them harm the way a comic book villain would. That Mythal would move against Solas doesn't mean she doesn't love him like a brother.

[diaspora2k5]

How do we know Mythal/Flemeth didn't take Solas over?

[In Exile]

How do we know Mythal/Flemeth didn't take Solas over?

Well, you mean, apart from the entire Trespasser DLC?

[In Exile]

Wait... did no one ask him what was worse? He said it. He said they would have destroyed the world when you ask what the other alternatives were.

That's not an answer to the right question. That's an answer to why he thinks he had to act against them - and its not even a clear one. He doesn't say why it had to be the Veil, what "worse" than the Veil would be, or why the Evanuris would destroy the world. It's all wordplay. It's what he's best at in DAI.

[diaspora2k5]

Well, you mean, apart from the entire Trespasser DLC?

Well that doesn't really tell us whether or not she's influencing him or controlling him no?

[In Exile]

Hmmm... I suspect the other alternatives would have resulted in their retaliation destroying the world. By sealing them away without their powers, it was the most peaceful way to end it, though he royally screwed his world despite that, but it didn't destroy the planet. Cole hints quite a bit at it in banter in the main game.

My point isn't that Solas - in his internal logic - is wrong. It's that he doesn't show us his work. We don't know what was at stake. What he tried to stop. Maybe the Veil was worse. But Solas has show himself to be a master at having his plots get derailed with apocalyptic consequence.

When he tried to stop the Evanuris he destroyed his people and fundamentally altered their nature, stripling away everything that made them great.

When he tried to play Corypheus to regain his power, he nearly doomed the whole world.

[Almostfaceman]

You're still conflating her death with the "betrayal" she mentioned. It's not that clear. She says "the world" was betrayed. That goes far beyond just her own murder. She's not a megalomaniac, as far as we can tell - she doesn't sound like she's saying the death of an Evanuris is a betrayal.

 

She's been putting herself between the rest of the world and the Evenuris for a long time. The world was betrayed by the treachery and abuse of the Evanuris when they slaughtered her, their defender. There's no reason at all to doubt any of that. It's very clear, just as the image in the Fade of her literal murder. 

[Darvins]

There could be any number of reasons why she did it, from the obvious, wanting Solas to open the way to beings who betrayed her, to the less obvious. This is Flemeth who has been nudging events for countless ages, her plans are not going to be easy to understand. It could be she needs Solas and his people to take certain steps in their plans, that will nudge the world in the direction she has planned, it could be for all we know simply she needs someone to distract the Qunari in the north or to manage changes in Tevinter whatever it is, even when more pieces of the puzzle are seen, I fully expect it to be not the full tale. Mythal/Flemeths tale will not be finished for a long time to come I suspect. I fully expect to see her story and plans still being laid long after Solas is dealt with, and that will not be surprised if ittakes several games in itself.

[BansheeOwnage]

Why does everyone take her at face value when she says that part? For all we know the betrayal she's referencing is what Solas did.

If that were true, why not just kill him while he was weak?

 

Personally I think they were working together when he awoke. She basically scolds him for giving his Orb to Corypheus like he was a little child who disobeyed. Do I think she's using him for her own gain? Yes, but not for revenge. She wants her murderers (who are still alive) to pay and Solas said if he had not created the Veil, they would have destroyed the world.

Can't be. Solas didn't know she was still alive until What Pride Had Wrought.

 

You're still conflating her death with the "betrayal" she mentioned. It's not that clear. She says "the world" was betrayed. That goes far beyond just her own murder. She's not a megalomaniac, as far as we can tell - she doesn't sound like she's saying the death of an Evanuris is a betrayal.

No, her "betrayal" is tied up in a world changing event. We think of her death as a simple thing - she died and all that was left was a wisp. But for all we know - in the pre-Veil world - she had a means to bring herself back, and that was ripped from her when the Veil was made.

I don't actually believe this theory. My point is only that people assume far too much based on a very vague rant by a character who's never been honest or direct onscreen.

She isn't necessarily referencing the same betrayal there, since obviously Flemeth's betrayal is unrelated, and she says "She was betrayed, as I was betrayed, as the world was betrayed!" So the "She was betrayed" part could be separate from the "world was betrayed" part. Though I personally think she is referring to the Evanuris both times.