359 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Trespasser had a good ending. It made sense, it was well orchestrated, everything fit together, and many important questions were answered.

Still, I didn't like the outcome.

I didn't like that we basically lost everything we had gained in the course of the story and actually ended up worse than when we started out, on a personal level, by losing a hand. Even more than this particular instance, I dislike that it always seems to go that way in Bioware's stories. Hawke gained respect and a nice estate and lost it all again in the end, and only narrowly escapes being worse off than they started out because they started out as a destitute fugitive and ended as the same with some levels of badass added. The Warden ended up as Arl of Amaranthine and lost that by fiat of the writers, plus a few decades of their lifespan courtesy of the Joining. And don't get me started about Shepard.

I greatly dislike how these stories give our heroes some nice things and/or cool special abilities, make them do their hero's task and then contrive circumstances where they lose it all again. Most of the time, I don't feel particularly annoyed by any single instance, but the pattern is unpleasant. It's as if our heroes are never allowed to keep anything they gained, they're just there for their task and then discarded. This time, there is the additional annoyance that my cool magical extra was taken away. Unlike the earlier instances, this I actually resent a great deal.

So, next time, can we please keep what we gained for a change? Or at least give us a choice? I would've given the other hand for the Mark... others might have given the Mark for keeping the Inquisition intact and independent.

[caradoc2000]

Being a Bioware hero is hard cheese - you even run into big chunks of cheese everywhere you go.

 

As to the Mark, it was pretty obvious from the start that you weren't going to be able to keep it (i.e. the writers had to make sure you would lose it one way or other).

[SurelyForth]

My Inquisitor only lost a mentor and a mark that basically made her a target. She still has her freedom, her friends, her Friends, her husband, an awesome dog, and a crazy inventive dwarven arcanist (and access to another brilliant dwarven engineer) to help smooth over that whole "lost a hand" thing. I consider Inquisition an overall win for her.

[Nixou]

I greatly dislike how these stories give our heroes some nice things and/or cool special abilities, make them do their hero's task and then contrive circumstances where they lose it all again. Most of the time, I don't feel particularly annoyed by any single instance, but the pattern is unpleasant.

 

 

• Baldur's Gate: Hero either becomes a God or remain one of the most formidable denizen of Faerune
• Jade Empire: Hero either becomes a God-Emporor or remain one of the most formidable denizen of the Jade Empire
• KOTOR: Hero either becomes a God-Emperor or remain one of the most formidable jedi of the Galactic Republic
• Mass Effect: Hero either becomes Galactic Yog-Sothoth or is remember as the most formidable Space Marine to ever live.

 

There is  indeed an annoying pattern, but if anything, recent Dragon Ages have tried to steer away

[Dabrikishaw]

I though people here considered Revan ruined by the tie-in novel and The Old Republic?

[Funkcase]

I believe Inquisition was a good ending for the hero. The loss of a hand is nothing compared to the loss of their life. They have done what they intended to do and are in a position where they no longer need to be out in the field fighting, they can lead and live happily knowing that the mark is no longer a threat to their life (honestly, when I started Inquisition, I thought that the mark would have somehow caused the Inquisitor to die at the end). 

[NoForgiveness]

I like sad endings better than happy endings. My Inquisitor would have died if it was necessary. But as it is she got married, made indestructible bonds with some really amazing people, saw(and saved) the world, and lived in a badass castle. So I'd say she came out on top. Both ways.

[Blooddrunk1004]

I though people here considered Revan ruined by the tie-in novel and The Old Republic?

That character that appears in novel and SWTOR doesn't deserve to be called Revan.

[In Exile]

The problem is that Bioware can't do much with a protagonist once they're done with him or her.

[Rappeldrache]

 

• Baldur's Gate: Hero either becomes a God or remain one of the most formidable denizen of Faerune
• Jade Empire: Hero either becomes a God-Emporor or remain one of the most formidable denizen of the Jade Empire
• KOTOR: Hero either becomes a God-Emperor or remain one of the most formidable jedi of the Jade Republic
• Mass Effect: Hero either becomes Galactic Yog-Sothoth or is remember as the most formidable Space Marine to ever live.

 

There is  indeed an annoying pattern, but if anything, recent Dragon Ages have tried to steer away

 

 

Baldurs Gate = Last game where Bioare gave you a real Haypp End

Jade Empire = Dit not play

Kotor = Hero lost in action (Revan dissapear in space!)

ME 1 - 3 = Hero is DEAD!!

DA:O = Hero lost in action

DA2 = Hero lost in Action

DA:O = Hero lost the Inquisition (or Inquisiton get trimmed), friends are GONE (they have their own life), the mark is gone, one hand is gone - your an invalid now (and you look like an invalid), Skyhold is not gone but you have the feeling it is, your friend Solas betrayed you, a powerful Solas will / want to destroy the world (somehow "Cory is back, but his name is Solas now ... and now he is really powerful"), the people you saved hates you somehow (Ferelden, Orlais) ... and a lot of people are not really happy with their romance endings (I'am by the way ).

 

I believe Inquisition was a good ending for the hero. The loss of a hand is nothing compared to the loss of their life.

 

It's not really a great choice between: Horrible ending and the most horrible ending. Would be better if they gave us the choice - I'm sure a few people would like to see the Inquisitor dying. That's all right. It would be great if we have the choice between: Dying, cut hand, not cut hand (or getting hand back somehow), whatever ....

 

I still think that Trespasser was a GREAT DLC. I still think that DAI was the BEST RPG I ever played in my whole, long life (and my life was full with RPG, P&P and Liferoleplaying until now). It was brilliant, Bioware IS brillaint. But ... this thing with the endings .... I don't know whats going wrong there.

I can't understand why Bioware dit NOT give us something like a little choice at the end, something like a little possibility for a bit hope. A CHOICE, not a forced Happy End - just a chance of a little bit "sunshine", for the people who want it. The personal destiny of the hero should be put into the gamers "hands". In german you say: "Put your destiny in somebodys hands." Hope you understand what I mean.    I'm NOT talking about the destiny of the world. Here we should not have to many options, thats all right.

 

I have to quote something from Mathias, what he wrote about "Happy endings":

 

I for one do play RPGs to escape from reality, because reality is harsh. Not always, but working 40-50 hours a week while constantly hearing bad news about the world buzzing about puts stress on me mentality sometimes. That's why we have our hobbies to relax and feel mentally refreshed. Playing video games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age helps me take my imagination to another world and live a separate life almost. I love it. It's also why I have such vitriol hatred for ME3's ending. I hate it for how nonsensical it is, and I hate it for how cruel it is.

 

[Almostfaceman]

Trespasser had a good ending. It made sense, it was well orchestrated, everything fit together, and many important questions were answered.

Still, I didn't like the outcome.

I didn't like that we basically lost everything we had gained in the course of the story and actually ended up worse than when we started out, on a personal level, by losing a hand. Even more than this particular instance, I dislike that it always seems to go that way in Bioware's stories. Hawke gained respect and a nice estate and lost it all again in the end, and only narrowly escapes being worse off than they started out because they started out as a destitute fugitive and ended as the same with some levels of badass added. The Warden ended up as Arl of Amaranthine and lost that by fiat of the writers, plus a few decades of their lifespan courtesy of the Joining. And don't get me started about Shepard.

I greatly dislike how these stories give our heroes some nice things and/or cool special abilities, make them do their hero's task and then contrive circumstances where they lose it all again. Most of the time, I don't feel particularly annoyed by any single instance, but the pattern is unpleasant. It's as if our heroes are never allowed to keep anything they gained, they're just there for their task and then discarded. This time, there is the additional annoyance that my cool magical extra was taken away. Unlike the earlier instances, this I actually resent a great deal.

So, next time, can we please keep what we gained for a change? Or at least give us a choice? I would've given the other hand for the Mark... others might have given the Mark for keeping the Inquisition intact and independent.

 

I don't think this bothers me as much as it bothers you, but I understand the sentiment and it wouldn't hurt Bioware to vary things a bit in the story telling department. 

[AntiChri5]

I never felt that you "lost" at the end of Trespasser or ended up in a worse position then when you began.

 

Beginning:

 

Alone in a cell, viewed by all as a heretical psychopath bent on destroying the world as demons pour into the sky close by and alien magic burned into your hand consumes your life.

 

End:

 

Extensive contacts all over Thedas in varying positions of power and influence. Personally decided who rules the greatest empire in southern Thedas, indirectly decided who leads southern Thedas' religion, directly conquered a military force viewed as the greatest in the world, became widely accepted as the absent messiah's right hand man/woman, publicly saved the world, cast down a would be god. Got a hand chopped off.

 

Whether or not the Inquisition is disbanded, the Inquisitor is still incredibly powerful.

[Nefla]

I though people here considered Revan ruined by the tie-in novel and The Old Republic?

Well I do! That emo, generic focus test straight white guy with a tragic backstory, dark hair, grizzled appearance, and stubble is NOT Revan.

 

Anyway, I don't see Trespasser as making the inquisitor "lose." Losing the arm doesn't bother me, I like it. He still has his friends and love interest and now a new purpose (if BioWare doesn't just punt him aside which it seems like they will ).

[Funkcase]

I think the problem largely stems from Bioware's predictable narrative. Honestly, Bioware does not actually make amazing original storylines, however, they do make really amazing and engaging characters and lore. Bioware stories always features the return of an ancient evil that threatens the world in some capacity, and a chosen hero who must rise up to stop them, or to unite the kingdoms/races as a means to stop the threat. Frankly, Bioware tell's the same story as every other RPG developer, except, Bioware know that it is their characters that matter the most to their fans anyway. This is certainly a good thing, although, I would love to see that attention to detail and originality in their characters and lore to also be extended to the main narrative.

[leaguer of one]

My Inquisitor only lost a mentor and a mark that basically made her a target. She still has her freedom, her friends, her Friends, her husband, an awesome dog, and a crazy inventive dwarven arcanist (and access to another brilliant dwarven engineer) to help smooth over that whole "lost a hand" thing. I consider Inquisition an overall win for her.

^this...But change husband with Kadan. And add naivety.

[leaguer of one]

 

Kotor = Hero lost in action (Revan dissapear in space!)

 

Revan was found, went crazy, was killed by the empire side,resurrected full dark side and then finally killed for good.

[ArianaGBSA]

 

• Baldur's Gate: Hero either becomes a God or remain one of the most formidable denizen of Faerune
• Jade Empire: Hero either becomes a God-Emporor or remain one of the most formidable denizen of the Jade Empire
• KOTOR: Hero either becomes a God-Emperor or remain one of the most formidable jedi of the Galactic Republic
• Mass Effect: Hero either becomes Galactic Yog-Sothoth or is remember as the most formidable Space Marine to ever live.

 

There is  indeed an annoying pattern, but if anything, recent Dragon Ages have tried to steer away

 

Wow, what an amazing feature! Steer away from something good, pleasant and amazing. Really an achievement!

Given how their "endings" are just slides they should offer lots of endings styles like happy, heroic, dramatic, tragic, insane and so on. IT IS A BUNCH OF SLIDES FOR GODS SAKE. No need to restrain the players!

However...

They need to f*ck us in the *ss very hard because as they told us many times DA series is about Thedas and they don't want to bring old PCs back so they just destroy them and move forward. DA series is for masochists only, no need for other romances, Bull fits ALL players (it is a joke).

[QueenCrow]

I think the feelings of disappointment in the ending are valid - take a look at the number of threads expressing disappointment in the feeling of loss and victimization that comes with Trespasser.  It's nothing different than the people who felt vicarious hurt and disappointment with a Solas break-up or disappearance, except that we are left with the feelings we take away from this "closure" DLC for the years we wait for DA4 and decide whether or not we'll play.

 

Like some people in this thread, and others in support of the ending to DAI, I see positives and want to grasp at those even though I, too, feel the disappointment in the ending of the game.  I was lucky enough to get a line from Cullen that offered a hold.  He said "I feel this was all worth fighting for" and I guess he's right in a virtual sense.  I can tell myself that I've just dedicated hours and hours of play to be buggered by the ending Solas scene, or I can tell myself that my Inquisitor fought for those people who were worth fighting for.

 

In truth, both viewpoints are valid and reasonable, and something Bioware should take into account when designing and writing games that they hope will attract players and offer some satisfaction in having played.

[Drasanil]

Trespasser was great, apart for the forced amputation. In a setting where it is already established healing magic can regrow limbs there is no reason for the Inquisitor to be stuck as an amputee given the vast array of resources, contacts, favours and potentially even their own significant magical abilities they have at their disposal.

[ZombiePopper]

I do understand your point, and there is a pattern, yes.
I guess my stubbornness altered my ending
From the beginning-end of Trespasser, BW kept telling me "disband the Inq.!"
They kept pushing, forcing me in that direction. (I suppose many felt something similar with Liara in ME.)
I actually felt like it was a big neon sign hanging over the entire DLC.
You could tell BW wants nothing more than the Quizzy and Inq. gone. (I'll be surprised if it ever surfaces again in future stories. Judging by the DA legacy, we might get a little codex blurp about it, nothing more.)
But I simply responded "no."
And kept them around on my first PT, plus who didn't like Cass' reaction when her Inqy hit the council with the Inq. book and Justinia comment.
I still really like Trespasser, and feel it was a good DLC.
I don't mind the loss of the arm,
I suspected something similar would happen.

[Googleness]

thing with bad endings and "ha ! surprise everyone is dead!" plots is I lose the will to play it again. so if in the past I could easily play a kotor \ JE \ ME1 2-3 times at least before I shelved them now I play a game like inquisition and not only I can't find the strength to finish it I actually don't desire to play it again after I'll finish it.

 

Games like BG or NWN had very nice campaigns and the huge variety of builds insured that each run will be unique and fun in it's own right.

 

Here in Inquisition I can use all possible builds (mostly) with my companions and respeccing them, abuse evil builds with crafting anf I can transfer schems and collectibles using the golden nug.

There is not much incentive to replay the game considering the plot and the ending

[Arvaarad]

If "killing an immortal darkspawn magister, killing an Avvar deity, saving the dwarven civilization from destruction by earthquakes, then going on adventures with Sera and getting a grappling hook crossbow arm" counts as losing, what would winning even look like?

 

If the inquisitor spent enough time saving the world, eventually they'd keel over from old age. That wouldn't suddenly invalidate their previous accomplishments. Nor would losing an arm, losing the inquisition, or witnessing the rise of a new villain.

 

The inquisitor did win. Stuff that happens after doesn't take that away.

[Al Foley]

If "killing an immortal darkspawn magister, killing an Avvar deity, saving the dwarven civilization from destruction by earthquakes, then going on adventures with Sera and getting a grappling hook crossbow arm" counts as losing, what would winning even look like?

 

If the inquisitor spent enough time saving the world, eventually they'd keel over from old age. That wouldn't suddenly invalidate their previous accomplishments. Nor would losing an arm, losing the inquisition, or witnessing the rise of a new villain.

 

The inquisitor did win. Stuff that happens after doesn't take that away.

Here here and Kara is taking the loss of her arm...well rather poorly.  But she looks forward to mastering her new body and also of leading the resistance against the Dread Wolf.  

[Almostfaceman]

They need to f*ck us in the *ss very hard because as they told us many times DA series is about Thedas and they don't want to bring old PCs back so they just destroy them and move forward. DA series is for masochists only, no need for other romances, Bull fits ALL players (it is a joke).

 

Calm down, they're just trying to make entertaining games. If they do something you don't like you can tell them... politely... without making it into some personal "they hate me and their customers" delusion. 

[Mr.House]

Let's see....

My Inquisitor now leads the honour guard for Cass (who she is very good friends with) is married to Cullen who is still her commander, is still friends and keeps in contact with Leli as she raises Harding, Ractor and Charter as successors, has titles and holdings in kirkwall and is a very good friend with Varric who is viscount, is very good friends with Sera and does regular Jenny work with her, still keeps in contact with her good friend Dorian with only Josie, Blackwall and Vivie doing their own things now. She still has her contacts and is now foucvisng on protecting Cass and stopping Solas and the only downside is she lost her lower left arm.

 

I'm sorry but this is the best ending that any Bioware hero has had imo.