359 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Trespasser had a good ending. It made sense, it was well orchestrated, everything fit together, and many important questions were answered.

Still, I didn't like the outcome.

I didn't like that we basically lost everything we had gained in the course of the story and actually ended up worse than when we started out, on a personal level, by losing a hand. Even more than this particular instance, I dislike that it always seems to go that way in Bioware's stories. Hawke gained respect and a nice estate and lost it all again in the end, and only narrowly escapes being worse off than they started out because they started out as a destitute fugitive and ended as the same with some levels of badass added. The Warden ended up as Arl of Amaranthine and lost that by fiat of the writers, plus a few decades of their lifespan courtesy of the Joining. And don't get me started about Shepard.

I greatly dislike how these stories give our heroes some nice things and/or cool special abilities, make them do their hero's task and then contrive circumstances where they lose it all again. Most of the time, I don't feel particularly annoyed by any single instance, but the pattern is unpleasant. It's as if our heroes are never allowed to keep anything they gained, they're just there for their task and then discarded. This time, there is the additional annoyance that my cool magical extra was taken away. Unlike the earlier instances, this I actually resent a great deal.

So, next time, can we please keep what we gained for a change? Or at least give us a choice? I would've given the other hand for the Mark... others might have given the Mark for keeping the Inquisition intact and independent.

I understand and appreciate the sentiment, Ieldra.  Perhaps more than most.

 

But frankly, after the ME3 debacle, I found the Trespasser ending to be practically rainbows-farting-uniforms happy.

 

I mean, most obviously, the Inquisitor lived, albiet losing an arm.

 

My Inquisitor is also able to carry on the task of stopping Solas, perhaps more from behind a desk than in actual adventuring, but still in a leadership position

 

The Inquisitor I played most recently even got a HEA with Cassandra (fortunately she was not made Divine).  Heck Varric even made my Trevelyan a comte  and gave him a Hightown estate (plus the key to the city...  ), so it's not like he's homeless and destitute.

 

And most importantly, I was not forced to agree with Solas's assessment of Thedas.  I was not forced to either destroy the Fade, control the Fade, or merge with the Fade because of some Insane Troll Logic of his.  I was able to stand (well, hunch over painfully) defiant against his assessment and vow to find a way to stop him without the game going "Rocks fall, everyone dies"

 

So, compared to three years ago, I call this ending a win.  And a big one.

[Al Foley]

I understand and appreciate the sentiment, Iledra.  Perhaps more than most.

 

But frankly, after the ME3 debacle, I found the Trespasser ending to be practically rainbows-farting-uniforms happy.

 

I mean, most obviously, the Inquisitor lived, albiet losing an arm.

 

My Inquisitor is also able to carry on the task of stopping Solas, perhaps more from behind a desk than in actual adventuring, but still in a leadership position

 

The Inquisitor I played most recently even got a HEA with Cassandra (fortunately she was not made Divine).  Heck Varric even made my Trevelyan a comte  and gave him a Hightown estate (plus the key to the city...  ), so it's not like he's homeless and destitute.

 

And most importantly, I was not forced to agree with Solas's assessment of Thedas.  I was not forced to either destroy the Fade, control the Fade, or merge with the Fade because of some Insane Troll Logic of his.  I was able to stand (well, hunch over painfully) defiant against his assessment and vow to find a way to stop him without the game going "Rocks fall, everyone dies"

 

So, compared to three years ago, I call this ending a win.  And a big one.

You know this does remind me, but leads to a humurous image, "Damn you!  I may be in crippling pain but I still will fight you!"

[Mr.House]

Really I the arm thing does not bug me probably because Ash and Guts are two of my fav protags, and what didn't hey both have in common? They had a fake hand and that did not stop them kicking ass and being good characters who became stronger after they lost their hands.

 

What people see as something bad, I see  as story potential.

[BSpud]

I wouldn't mind losing power, love, intelligence and other useless things, but my body is way too sacred, holy and wonderful for accepting losing a limb.

 

Haha, +20 insane trolly stars.

[Lady Nuggins]

I loved how Trespasser ended.

 

For me, the original Inquisition ending was rather unsettling. The Inquisition was too powerful, too likely to follow in the footsteps of the previous Inquisition, too much like the exact systems that it originally dismantled. It also carried the assumption that your Inquisitor actually wanted to carry on leading this enormous, shady organization. Maybe some Inquisitors, sure, but for a game that you could very much play as someone who doesn't want to be there and never signed up for this ****, it certainly locked you into one path and one path only. 

 

Trespasser not only gave us a choice between keeping the Inquisition or dismantling it, it gave the Inquisitor what felt like a real conclusion, rather than a vague and open-ended platitude. And yes, it's not a perfect ending. You don't get to keep the all-powerful hand or the all-powerful army. But I will take a complicated yet positive ending over an empty-feeling one-size-fits-all power fantasy ending any day. 

[Ieldra]

I wanted that option too tbh. Maybe if you had like REALLY high power or something you could just say 'er... how 'bout no?' and I think the primary reason behind defanging the Inquisition is so that it's shadow isn't cast over the entirety of the following games. Meta-reasons then. The way they left it at the end of DAI it really did sound like the Inquisition was everywhere and disproportionately powerful, I think they just needed to curtail it so that people weren't constantly asking where the Inquisition presence was in Tevinter or whatever.
 
And to be fair it was created with a purpose and that purpose was fulfilled so it's not completely out of the left field.

I said it all made sense. The ending is good, I just didn't like this specific aspect of it. It doesn't help that it appears that Bioware wanted to restore the status quo as much as they possibly could, and that all came at the expense of those players who'd like to take specific things away from the story.

[Ieldra]

I understand and appreciate the sentiment, Ieldra.  Perhaps more than most.
 
But frankly, after the ME3 debacle, I found the Trespasser ending to be practically rainbows-farting-uniforms happy.
 
I mean, most obviously, the Inquisitor lived, albiet losing an arm.
 
My Inquisitor is also able to carry on the task of stopping Solas, perhaps more from behind a desk than in actual adventuring, but still in a leadership position
 
The Inquisitor I played most recently even got a HEA with Cassandra (fortunately she was not made Divine).  Heck Varric even made my Trevelyan a comte  and gave him a Hightown estate (plus the key to the city...  ), so it's not like he's homeless and destitute.
 
And most importantly, I was not forced to agree with Solas's assessment of Thedas.  I was not forced to either destroy the Fade, control the Fade, or merge with the Fade because of some Insane Troll Logic of his.  I was able to stand (well, hunch over painfully) defiant against his assessment and vow to find a way to stop him without the game going "Rocks fall, everyone dies"
 
So, compared to three years ago, I call this ending a win.  And a big one.

Absolutely. I liked everything else about it except the personal loss for the Inquisitor - actually as opposed to ME3, where I didn't mind Shepard's death all that much except that the way it came about felt like a betrayal.

[Ieldra]

Everyone keeps talking about an option keeping the mark despite the fact that the writers made it pretty clear that this magic is unknown, volatile, and dangerous. 

I think the removal of the arm is a needed symbolism of the change brought forth by the mark. 

It began one chapter. Now it ends the chapter.

They could've made a story about learning to control it instead. But no, that would make the Inquisitor actually different from the standard hero type they're always using. I dislike the symbolism of taking it away to make the Inquisitor "normal" again and restore the status quo a great deal more, in fact, it wouldn't be hyperbole to say that I hate it.

[Mr.House]

They could've made a story about learning to control it instead. But no, that would make the Inquisitor actually different from the standard hero type they're always using. I dislike the symbolism of taking it away to make the Inquisitor "normal" again and restore the status quo a great deal more, in fact, it wouldn't be hyperbole to say that I hate it.

Personally I didn't like that Gaider threw the marks effect to the bin after the opening with the copout excuse, it made no sense that the mark didn't go out of control when she used it at Adament to go into the fade physically or when Coryfish opens a much stronger breach that requires the orb to close it and personally I feel the team made the ending so happy because they where afraid of another ME3 but another complaint happen, the ending was too happy and perfect.. So yeah I'm very happy that Patrick did this and to shed more light on it.

 

While the mark was seen to be wonky at the council, it does not start to go full out of control until you come near a very powerful elven magic artifact which seemed similar to the mark. After that the mark goes crazy and in the library when something similar happens again Dorian brings up the connection. There's no trying to control something that has gone out of control this badly, THAT would have been a cop out.

[ArianaGBSA]

Haha, +20 insane trolly stars.

Which planet do you BSNers live in? SJW planet it seems, because in real world a lot of people would rather die than losing a limb and/or becoming ugly or deformed. Having a healthy and beautiful body is usually a big deal for humans. House (tv series) choose to life in pain instead of losing his leg. Not everyone is deep, some people are as shallow as it gets, plus life is not a big deal for everybody, some people in Mass Effect universe would rather die having sex with a Succubus Asari than living their boring lives...

[Ieldra]

Which planet do you BSNers live in? SJW planet it seems, because in real world a lot of people would rather die than losing a limb and/or becoming ugly or deformed.

People who say that tend to be those who never actually experienced this. As I said, to lose a hand is very significant, definitely nothing to just shrug off, but I doubt many would make it a life-or-death matter. I can imagine quite a few situations where preferring death appears plausible, but not this.

Apart from that, I can see your point. Being incomplete *is* a defect, no matter how some ideological positions want to pretend it isn't, the desire to make it possible to live a reasonably happy life for those afflicted notwithstanding. The point that could be made for the Inquisitor losing a hand, apart from the fact that it is a plausible, albeit dislikeable outcome, is that it isn't that signficant compared to what they could've lost had they been just a little less badass, or lucky, when confronting Corypheus and his minions. So personally, I don't have a big issue with the hand as such, apart from what it symbolizes, and that it had carried the Mark.

[Lady Nuggins]

Which planet do you BSNers live in? SJW planet it seems, because in real world a lot of people would rather die than losing a limb and/or becoming ugly or deformed. Having a healthy and beautiful body is usually a big deal for humans. House (tv series) choose to life in pain instead of losing his leg. Not everyone is deep, some people are as shallow as it gets, plus life is not a big deal for everybody, some people in Mass Effect universe would rather die having sex with a Succubus Asari than living their boring lives...

 

In the real world, amputees and "ugly or deformed" people can and do live full and happy lives as they are. You're being awfully dramatic about this.

[ZombiePopper]

Wow, just wow....
I call BS.
If someone were ACTUALLY faced with, in a very real world situation, the loss of life or the loss of a limb, I'd bet money the majority would rather lose a limb. (Except for those that...well I'll keep my opinion to myself..)
I've got friends who've served and lost limbs and I can tell you they're doing just fine and I damn sure wouldn't consider them "ugly" or "deformed".
Do you have a scar?
Whew you so ugly and deformed.
Give me a ******* break.
So far,
I've busted all my ribs on my right sight side, punctured lung, 3 concussions, broken collar bone 3 times, couple broken fingers, just to name a few.
Those scars are earned and I value each one. They're proof I've lived life to the fullest and came close to death a few times but I'm still here and stronger for it.

Now in a game setting,
It's not reality, so by all means, dislike BW's story/facets of it, if you must. But don't go around making offensive and ignorant statements about people who have lost limbs.
What's next?
You going to kick some puppies?
Perhaps insult diabetics or how about people with cancer?
Ridiculous.

[actionhero112]

Nah I like tragic endings.

 

Fantasy games are full of the save the world trope in which the hero comes out with a love interest, all his friends and superpowers at the end of the game.

 

Leave me my dragon age, in all of it's baby stealing, war creating, arm destroying, glory. 

 

Plus losing an arm? Pls. My dad doesn't have an arm and he can still kick my ass. 

[Almostfaceman]

Which planet do you BSNers live in? SJW planet it seems, because in real world a lot of people would rather die than losing a limb and/or becoming ugly or deformed. Having a healthy and beautiful body is usually a big deal for humans. House (tv series) choose to life in pain instead of losing his leg. Not everyone is deep, some people are as shallow as it gets, plus life is not a big deal for everybody, some people in Mass Effect universe would rather die having sex with a Succubus Asari than living their boring lives...

 

There's a lot of people living missing limbs, which means they haven't committed suicide. There are many points of view, you should probably consider them all. 

[Almostfaceman]

Wow, just wow....
I call BS.
If someone were ACTUALLY faced with, in a very real world situation, the loss of life or the loss of a limb, I'd bet money the majority would rather lose a limb. 

 

Speaking for myself, I'd rather lose the limb than kick the bucket. 

[MrMrPendragon]

Yeah but the Inquisitor changed a lot of things before losing everything he(mine is a he) gained. It's not like he gathered allies and formed an organization, and just when he was about to do something, they disband.

 

No, he got to choose who gets to be divine, defeated a darkspawn magister, stopped red lyrium from spreading, chose who gets to rule the most powerful human nation in Thedas (Orlais), and from a role-playing/story standpoint made a lot of connections and alliances with nobilty (through the war table) and not only that - he's not even done saving the world!

 

He's still going to Tevinter, where mostly everyone hates him, to battle a super OP elven mage - who can created the Veil that kept all the demons and maybe 6 or so equally powerful elven mages from invading and wrecking the world, and can turn you into stone in literally a blink of an eye - with only ONE arm and basically zero resources.

 

 

Anyone who is that much of a badass can only win, not lose.

 

The only thing I would change in this ending is have a hotter female LI, but other than that, this is the best ending to a hero we've ever had in this series.

 

As for the mark, it only makes sense for it to be gone because a. It's killing you (I'd say that's a pretty good reason to take that off) and b. Solas can control it, and will probably take it anyway the next time you meet him.

 

If Solas' plan involves messing with the Veil, he's not going to let a person who can ALSO CONTROL THE VEIL walk around free. And in this case, he's going to mess with the magic that he (indirectly) gave you.

[fhs33721]

Which planet do you BSNers live in? SJW planet it seems, because in real world a lot of people would rather die than losing a limb and/or becoming ugly or deformed. Having a healthy and beautiful body is usually a big deal for humans. House (tv series) choose to life in pain instead of losing his leg. Not everyone is deep, some people are as shallow as it gets, plus life is not a big deal for everybody, some people in Mass Effect universe would rather die having sex with a Succubus Asari than living their boring lives...

I am reasonably sure that, should you ever encounter the situation where the doctor tells you that you either agree to get your arm amputated or you die a day later even you yourself would beg the doctor to cut of your arm faster than an templar in withdrawal would guzzle down a lyrium potion.

And I'm pretty sure that only a very small minority (and in no way a lot) of people in the real world would rather die than lose a limb considering that an overwhelming majority of people would raher lose a finger than giving up on using a smartphone.

[TheRealJayDee]

Based on what little I've read the (Trespasser) DA:I ending seems to be pretty much straight 'unicorn-babies-dancing-through-a-field-of-candy-sunflowers'-happy compared to my experiences in DA2 and ME3. 

 

And the loss of a limb, while definitely harsh, is something a hero can learn to deal with. Especially when he/she has awesome buddies supporting him/her!

 

Spoiler

[Rappeldrache]

a.) A lot of people (not all of course) want to deal in their games with dragons, magic & dark spawn - not with "real life problems" like lost limbs, a stroke & the tax office. It would be easy to give us a bit more descision here, AFTER the ending. But Bioware haven't done it. Question is: Why?

 

b.) Even in real life you have the decision to choose what you want to do with a lost arm or leg. Here we haven't this possibility.

 

 

Again: Ending of Trespasser is still great. I'm (personal) angry because we dit not get any choise for this amputation, AFTER the ending. 

[Apollexander]

No king rules forever.

Spoiler

 

Seriously, some of the heroes could have happy endings at first. The Hero of Ferelden could be traveling with his/her lover, helping the monarch, etc. The Inquisitor could still be one of the most powerful person in southern Thedas. Just like the tales, the prince and princess lived in happiness. But with sequels we can't help asking "what happens then?" Then Awakening and Trespasser happened and everything went down.

[Toasted Llama]

Losing the limb seemed like an inevitable event the moment the Inquisitor was branded with the mark, it's borderline delusional to think the anchor could be removed with the snap of a finger. The anchor was foreign, ancient magic, it wasn't part of the Inquisitor, they didn't own it and it certainly wasn't going to be that powerfull without a cost. Especially when taking into account the Inquisitor got the anchor by chance, so they may not even be an optimal/suitable wielder for the anchor. And if my memory serves me well, Corypheus tried to take the anchor, but failed and thus concluded that the Inquisitor had to die in order to get rid of it.

 

Looking at where most Inquisitors came from, especially Adaar and Cadash Inquisitors, they gained a lot and kept many of those benefits even after the Inquisition.

 

And speaking of losing limbs:

The impact of losing a limb varies greatly from person to person and potentially from limb to limb.

 

If I personally (in real life) would have to choose between losing a limb and losing my life it depends on what limb; if it's the right arm I'd lose then yeah, I'd rather be dead. I draw with my right hand and drawing is the most treasured/important thing in my life right now.

 

On the other hand (pun not intended) my Inquisitor's happiness may not be dependant on their hand (be it left or right) and they could very well decide that the loss of an arm is insignificant compared to the loss of their life.

[Rappeldrache]

@Apollexander

 

Wrote it somewhere else: Till Baldurs Gate I haven't see a happy ending for Bioware heros.

 

 

@Toasted Llama

 

Thats true. And to be honest: I'm not angry about losing the forearm. I'm angry because Bioware don't give us a option to choice what we want to do with this situation, AFTER. I like the ending, it was hart. my character lost a lot, but .. it was great. I was just shocked that .. it finished just like this ... I was like: WHAT THE HECK?? Come on Bioware, give us a chance after all ... what come on ... no ... the End? The message at the end how mutch Bioware like his Fans was for me (!!) like a big mock.

 

(Choice: Do nothing or let Dagna make a prosthesis (crossbow, something nice, canon, whatever) or for example it is possible in the Dragon Age Universe to let arms & legs regrown. Look here: http://dragonage.wik...wiki/Minderel).

 

My Inquisitors happiness also don't depend on her forearm, but MY HAPPINESS depend on it.

 

 

PS: I think I would prefer to lose a forearm than to die.

[ZombiePopper]

Losing the limb seemed like an inevitable event the moment the Inquisitor was branded with the mark, it's borderline delusional to think the anchor could be removed with the snap of a finger. The anchor was foreign, ancient magic, it wasn't part of the Inquisitor, they didn't own it and it certainly wasn't going to be that powerfull without a cost. Especially when taking into account the Inquisitor got the anchor by chance, so they may not even be an optimal/suitable wielder for the anchor. And if my memory serves me well, Corypheus tried to take the anchor, but failed and thus concluded that the Inquisitor had to die in order to get rid of it.

Looking at where most Inquisitors came from, especially Adaar and Cadash Inquisitors, they gained a lot and kept many of those benefits even after the Inquisition.

And speaking of losing limbs:
The impact of losing a limb varies greatly from person to person and potentially from limb to limb.

If I personally (in real life) would have to choose between losing a limb and losing my life it depends on what limb; if it's the right arm I'd lose then yeah, I'd rather be dead. I draw with my right hand and drawing is the most treasured/important thing in my life right now.

On the other hand (pun not intended) my Inquisitor's happiness may not be dependant on their hand (be it left or right) and they could very well decide that the loss of an arm is insignificant compared to the loss of their life.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that losing a limb is easy or a good thing, of course, it is not.
But out of curiousity,
Do you feel you are completely incapable of learning to draw with your other hand?
(It's not a snarky comment, my fav med is charcoal so I understand your point. I'm actually curious. Since there are several artists that have done so. For me, I'd like to at least TRY to re-learn it than to be dead and lose everything, literally.)

[ArianaGBSA]

People who say that tend to be those who never actually experienced this. As I said, to lose a hand is very significant, definitely nothing to just shrug off, but I doubt many would make it a life-or-death matter. I can imagine quite a few situations where preferring death appears plausible, but not this.

Apart from that, I can see your point. Being incomplete *is* a defect, no matter how some ideological positions want to pretend it isn't, the desire to make it possible to live a reasonably happy life for those afflicted notwithstanding. The point that could be made for the Inquisitor losing a hand, apart from the fact that it is a plausible, albeit dislikeable outcome, is that it isn't that signficant compared to what they could've lost had they been just a little less badass, or lucky, when confronting Corypheus and his minions. So personally, I don't have a big issue with the hand as such, apart from what it symbolizes, and that it had carried the Mark.

Good post but you missed the point. My point is exactly about "people being reasonable", people are not, I mean, not all. Most people have something vain or stupid they value more than life, I'd say everyone do. A dick or the breasts, a particular skill, the show of an idol, or even a lucky charm. Human beings are that stupid. "If I lose my voice I lose my reason to live" or "if I lose my WOW account I will kill myself", real life statements. And yes, in most cases people are just saying it like a joke right? Well, one ex girlfriend of mine tried to kill herself because I refused to go to the gym, SERIOUSLY.