337 réponses à ce sujet

[diaspora2k5]

Felassan was helping Solas of his own free will, he then defied him of his own free will.

 

edit: Solas then killed him for delaying his plans.

[BansheeOwnage]

This is something which has been causing some confusion for me. I keep wondering why Corypheus needed the sacrifice when the orb could get him across the two worlds (Thedas and the Fade) just fine.

 

Maybe the Magisters discovered about blood magic and its properties of thinning the Veil on their own. Maybe they read about it somewhere. Maybe they learned it with the Old Gods (in hushed whispers). 

 

Either way, if he did the sacrifice, he wouldn't need the orb. The blood ritual would be enough to open a rift in the Fade and allow him to get across. Unless the first breach was opened with the help of an orb as well and we don't know about it. Hence my confusion.

The first assault on the fade required (figuratively) mountains of lyrium and slaves. No way Corypheus was going to enter the fade using only the Divine as a sacrifice. No, it's much more likely he needed a sacrifice to gain enough power to unlock the orb properly. Or maybe he just wanted to kill her at the same time. Meaning, the sacrifice was ritualistic or symbolic, not necessary.

[diaspora2k5]

The first assault on the fade required (figuratively) mountains of lyrium and slaves. No way Corypheus was going to enter the fade using only the Divine as a sacrifice. No, it's much more likely he needed a sacrifice to gain enough power to unlock the orb properly. Or maybe he just wanted to kill her at the same time. Meaning, the sacrifice was ritualistic or symbolic, not necessary.

Sacrifice may have been for just unlocking the Orb.

[Wahed89]

To answer the OP: because Solas is the villain of the entire series, and what he wants to do is despicable. The biggest reason is though that they can't make a game with such conflicting storylines. It's not like simply siding with Templars or mages, the entire premise of the next game(s) will be about stopping him. The choice in games is usually "how" rather than "what".

[In Exile]

Sacrifice may have been for just unlocking the Orb.

 

It has no connection. Remember, the Inquisitor gains the anchor - the orb's power - just by picking it up while Justinia is alive. She doesn't get sacrificed. 

[diaspora2k5]

It has no connection. Remember, the Inquisitor gains the anchor - the orb's power - just by picking it up while Justinia is alive. She doesn't get sacrificed. 

Then he's just being a jerk.

 

[Almostfaceman]

Felassan changed his mind and Solas killed him. That is a dictator. Solas makes all final decisions. He doesn't share power or haven't you noticed? He was just using you. 

 

Or, far more likely, Felassan was "put out of his misery" since Solas considered him 1) hindering Solas's goals and 2) Felassan, in Solas's eyes (especially at that post-Inquisitor point in time) is a tranquilized elf who's better off being put out of his misery. 

 

I still have't seen you provide any evidence that counters the fact that Solas freed slaves and fought against the elven gods who had slaves. It's clear as day in the game.

 

"During the time of Elvhenan, the rebel Fen'Harel called fleeing elven slaves to him and lifted their vallaslin from them, to break the bonds of the Evanuris who oppressed them." http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Vallaslin

[diaspora2k5]

Or, far more likely, Felassan was "put out of his misery" since Solas considered him a) hindering Solas's goals and Felassan, in Solas's eyes (especially at that post-Inquisitor point in time) is a tranquilized elf who's better off being put out of his misery. 

 

I still have't seen you provide any evidence that counters the fact that Solas freed slaves and fought against the elven gods who had slaves. It's clear as day in the game.

 

"During the time of Elvhenan, the rebel Fen'Harel called fleeing elven slaves to him and lifted their vallaslin from them, to break the bonds of the Evanuris who oppressed them." http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Vallaslin

Nobody says he didn't free slaves, it's something we can all agree on. But there's really no getting around him murdering Felassan. As far as I know, people don't kill the Tranquil just because they're tranquil and if you're saying that Solas did just that... then he's a bit of a monster.

[Almostfaceman]

Nobody says he didn't free slaves, it's something we can all agree on. But there's really no getting around him murdering Felassan. As far as I know, people don't kill the Tranquil just because they're tranquil.

 

I didn't say he didn't kill Felassan. That's not up for debate. And yes, people kill Tranquil just because they're Tranquil. The skulls of those devices all over Thedas are skulls of the Tranquil and it's mentioned in several other dialogues that life is hard and merciless for Tranquil outside the Circle. Solas himself sees the elves being tranquil a large enough problem to tear down the Veil and deal with the Evanuris in a different way. 

[diaspora2k5]

I didn't say he didn't kill Felassan. That's not up for debate. And yes, people kill Tranquil just because they're Tranquil. The skulls of those devices all over Thedas are skulls of the Tranquil and it's mentioned in several other dialogues that life is hard and merciless for Tranquil outside the Circle. Solas himself sees the elves being tranquil a large enough problem to tear down the Veil and deal with the Evanuris in a different way. 

The Venatori, a mage and Tevinter supremacist cult did that, you're making Solas sound more monstrous with each post. Not to mention Tranquil abuses are called abuses by people in the game.

[Almostfaceman]

The Venatori, a mage and Tevinter supremacist cult did that, you're making Solas sound more monstrous with each post. Not to mention Tranquil abuses are called abuses by people in the game.

 

You just said that people didn't kill Tranquil because they were Tranquil, and I gave examples of that being a false assertion. I have no water to carry for Solas, what he is going to do is monstrous. Still, he values freedom. He has several conversations with Iron Bull about freedom of thought and he risks his existence in fighting the Evanuris and freeing slaves. That was my entire argument. He's not tearing down the Veil to be a dictator, he's tearing down the Veil to free and restore his people. Like he's stated.  

[diaspora2k5]

You just said that people didn't kill Tranquil because they were Tranquil, and I gave examples of that being a false assertion. I have no water to carry for Solas, what he is going to do is monstrous. Still, he values freedom. He has several conversations with Iron Bull about freedom of thought and he risks his existence in fighting the Evanuris and freeing slaves. That was my entire argument. He's not tearing down the Veil to be a dictator, he's tearing down the Veil to free and restore his people. Like he's stated.  

The Architect was trying to liberate his people by spreading the Blight, it's ultimately not a great reason to join up.

[Hattress]

Or, far more likely, Felassan was "put out of his misery" since Solas considered him 1) hindering Solas's goals and 2) Felassan, in Solas's eyes (especially at that post-Inquisitor point in time) is a tranquilized elf who's better off being put out of his misery. 

 

I still have't seen you provide any evidence that counters the fact that Solas freed slaves and fought against the elven gods who had slaves. It's clear as day in the game.

 

"During the time of Elvhenan, the rebel Fen'Harel called fleeing elven slaves to him and lifted their vallaslin from them, to break the bonds of the Evanuris who oppressed them." http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Vallaslin

 

If you re-read TME you will find out that Felassan is actually one of the remaining ancient elves.

Solas killed him because 1) he gave up his mission 2) and more importantly, he began to view Briala and modern elves as people and wanted to give them a chance

[Nathonaws]

Because they've set him up as the obvious villain for DA4 so it's kind of impossible to give you the choice of allying with him as that would nullify the whole game. However, I do foresee them giving you the option of joining Solas at the very end of the next game.

[Almostfaceman]

The Architect was trying to liberate his people by spreading the Blight, it's ultimately not a great reason to join up.

 

I haven't stated or implied anywhere that there are reasons to join him, I was disputing an assertion that Solas wanted to be a dictator. He quite obviously doesn't want to be one. He had ample opportunity to exist as one and actively changed the world so that he could not be one, or a god. 

[Almostfaceman]

If you re-read TME you will find out that Felassan is actually one of the remaining ancient elves.

Solas killed him because 1) he gave up his mission 2) and more importantly, he began to view Briala and modern elves as people and wanted to give them a chance

 

Yes, I knew he killed him because Felassan did those two things. I didn't know about Felassan being an ancient elf, that's cool. Thanks for the info. 

 

I know about Solas being ruthless when he feels it called for. That doesn't change the fact that his end-game is not dictatorship. If it were, he need not have torn down the Veil in the first place. 

[Cobra's_back]

Yes, I knew he killed him because Felassan did those two things. I didn't know about Felassan being an ancient elf, that's cool. Thanks for the info. 

 

I know about Solas being ruthless when he feels it called for. That doesn't change the fact that his end-game is not dictatorship. If it were, he need not have torn down the Veil in the first place. 

 

That is the problem right there. Many of us don't agree it was called for. Solas like many dictators believe he is doing good. He makes decisions in a vacuum. There is no group consensus. He doesn't even give enough data so that his followers understand what comes next. Fidel Alejandro Castro truly believed he was liberating his people as he left a trail of corpses. Anyone who disagrees or wants to quit is fair game for death.

 

Solas admits that he has deceived countless people to achieve his goal. What part of that is giving free will to others? 

[Almostfaceman]

That is the problem right there. Many of us don't agree it was called for. Solas like many dictators believe he is doing good. He makes decisions in a vacuum. There is no group consensus. He doesn't even give enough data so that his followers understand what comes next. Fidel Alejandro Castro truly believed he was liberating his people as he left a trail of corpses. Anyone who disagrees or wants to quit is fair game for death.

 

Solas admits that he has deceived countless people to achieve his goal. What part of that is giving free will to others? 

 

Easy, you set up a system where people can go about their business doing what they want to do. That's what Solas wants to do, and he's going to break some eggs to do so. What made Castro a dictator wasn't his effort to free people from what he considered an unfair system, it's what he did afterwards. 

 

I don't agree it was called for either. But I think you're taking a cruel act and labeling it dictatorship. A dictator is someone who rules a kingdom by force. Solas has no kingdom. He never had a kingdom. He knocked down several kingdoms. All of these are facts, which you cannot dispute. If he wanted a kingdom, he was in the perfect position to have one, without all this fuss. 

 

So, if he wants to be a dictator, why did he knock down all these kingdoms, renounce godhood, free all those slaves and put up the Veil? 

[Sah291]

Because it doesn't really make any sense for even a sympathetic Quizzy to join him. If the Quizzy befriended Solas because they agreed with his goals/ideas, then it is those ideals they should be upholding now, when it matters. Solas is in many ways working against his own values, basically, because he believes he is desperate/running out of time/has no choice/etc. So joining him is not necessarily the best way to "help" anyway.

[Cobra's_back]

Easy, you set up a system where people can go about their business doing what they want to do. That's what Solas wants to do, and he's going to break some eggs to do so. What made Castro a dictator wasn't his effort to free people from what he considered an unfair system, it's what he did afterwards. 

 

I don't agree it was called for either. But I think you're taking a cruel act and labeling it dictatorship. A dictator is someone who rules a kingdom by force. Solas has no kingdom. He never had a kingdom. He knocked down several kingdoms. All of these are facts, which you cannot dispute. If he wanted a kingdom, he was in the perfect position to have one, without all this fuss. 

 

So, if he wants to be a dictator, why did he knock down all these kingdoms, renounce godhood, free all those slaves and put up the Veil? 

 

Thanks for asking the question. History shows us that many dictators had noble intentions. What made Castro a dictator was his management style. The "I have to break some eggs and deceive followers" is the making of a dictator. 

 

Knocking down kingdoms and replacing it with an oppressive government happens all the time. Lenin had noble intentions, and didn't expect the revolution would result in Stalin's Russia. 

 

Felassan was one of his followers, and it doesn't state he didn't have more. Solas tells you his spies were in Skyhold. I don't know how many people were under his command. 

 

The good news is he plans on dying. The bad news is what he plans to do and the aftermath. Because Solas consults with no one when he executes his plans, the results are usually devastating.

 

So is he a dictator in the classical sense of ruling a government? NO

 

Does he have a dictator management style? YES

 

Leadership Styles : Dictatorship

 

No questions asked. Don't give them enough information so they can't ask a question.

 

The dictator lays down the law in his or her group and expects individuals to perform without questioning his or her authority. 

 

Knowledge is power. 

 

The dictator rightly believes that knowledge is one of the keys to power. For this reason, the dictator will often keep most of a unit or organization's critical knowledge to himself and dole out only small portions of information on a need-to-know basis. Lying makes this easy.

 

 

 

Personally, anyone lying and taking a life because that person disagrees or wants to quit, loses me instantly. If I was an Elf, I wouldn't follow him. I do understand why some would. He does promise utopia and so many people want to believe it exist. 

[Almostfaceman]

 

Thanks for asking the question. History shows us that many dictators had noble intentions. What made Castro a dictator was his management style. The "I have to break some eggs and deceive followers" is the making of a dictator. 

 

Knocking down kingdoms and replacing it with an oppressive government happens all the time. Lenin had noble intentions, and didn't expect the revolution would result in Stalin's Russia. 

 

Felassan was one of his followers, and it doesn't state he didn't have more. Solas tells you his spies were in Skyhold. I don't know how many people were under his command. 

 

The good news is he plans on dying. The bad news is what he plans to do and the aftermath. Because Solas consults with no one when he executes his plans, the results are usually devastating.

 

So is he a dictator in the classical sense of ruling a government? NO

 

Does he have a dictator management style? YES

 

Leadership Styles : Dictatorship

 

No questions asked. Don't give them enough information so they can't ask a question.

 

The dictator lays down the law in his or her group and expects individuals to perform without questioning his or her authority. 

 

Knowledge is power. 

 

The dictator rightly believes that knowledge is one of the keys to power. For this reason, the dictator will often keep most of a unit or organization's critical knowledge to himself and dole out only small portions of information on a need-to-know basis. Lying makes this easy.

 

 

 

Personally, anyone lying and taking a life because that person disagrees or wants to quit, loses me instantly. If I was an Elf, I wouldn't follow him. I do understand why some would. He does promise utopia and so many people want to believe it exist. 

 

 

You're talking about a leadership style for a unit set on accomplishing a tactical or strategic goal, not a system of government for a people. All of his actions support a lifestyle for a society of free peoples. He's not a dictator, he's the leader of his group. Cruel? Yes. Imperfect? Yes. Dictator? No.

 

It's the same in our American military. It's a group that's hardly democratic. But, it protects a democratic system. Now, just replace the word "democratic" with "free" (since we don't know if the elves ever voted on anything or settled things by committee) and you have the same situation with Solas. He's a military leader promoting a free society. Thus, he's not a dictator. We can agree to disagree. 

[Wren]

I was reading the Bioware blog earlier today where the writers of each character gave a detailed account of the music they listened to while writing the characters. Patrick Weekes commented that he pretty much listened to this song on repeat while writing Solas's key scenes.

This paints a really sad picture of what type of character Solas is and what his motivations are.

 

I wouldn't want my character to follow Solas even though she's a Dalish Elf who romanced him, because part of why he respects the Inquisitor is that she is not one to slavishly follow someone down the road to death and it wouldn't be consistent with the game's story line to have her act out of character so.

 

 

http://blog.bioware....ge-inquisition/

[ModernAcademic]

Almostfaceman asking the hard questions and broadening our philosophical horizons. 

 

Solas Greatly Approves

Dorian Approves

Vivienne Slightly Approves

Iron Bull Slightly Disapproves

Sera Disapproves

[TeffexPope]

I think in light of what happened in Trespasser, joining the Fen'Harel rebellion should actually be a possible choice for a Dalish inquisitor. There are several reasons I can think of:

 

 

Then why bother with future DA games? This is akin to the 'choose to do nothing' end choice for ME3. Destroy everything you've ever known, for the next cycle to then finally stop the reapers. Maybe. Could be another 2, 3 before one of Liara's little digital logs is found. 

 

In other words, just a really bad choice TBH.

[Estel Lavellan]

Then why bother with future DA games? This is akin to the 'choose to do nothing' end choice for ME3. Destroy everything you've ever known, for the next cycle to then finally stop the reapers. Maybe. Could be another 2, 3 before one of Liara's little digital logs is found. 

 

In other words, just a really bad choice TBH.

 

It would be if the next game is centered around the Herald again. But look at my third point. I said that the story of the Herald is concluded in Trespasser, and he/she could simply not appear, appear as a war table character, be replaced by a placeholder like stroud/allstair/loghain,  or even appear as a minor antagonist. Recent GTA instalments have made some previous player characters or central characters antagonists, and it was quite well-received. I'm saying that the Herald can be subject to something similar, decided by players who pick that choice. It could be a worthy experiment.

 

Plus 'a tragic ending', if you do consider joining Solas to be one, is not at all out of the blue for Dragon Age, look at Cullen's ending if you disbanded the inquisition and didn't yank him off the lyrium addiction. I appreciate this game for not 'letting everything work out in the end', instead putting you in a real world situation and let your choices define the game for you. If my inquisitor is dedicated to the Dalish, is disgusted by the ungrateful humans, and thinks her time as Thedas' hero is over, and is not played to be touchy about sacrifices, then actually joining Solas is, for all intents and purposes, the canonical choice.