337 réponses à ce sujet

[Andreas Amell]

Joining Solas in his plan would have been a controversial move on Bioware's part. It's encourages players to accept genocidical schemes and disregard the rights of other people. Even if players chose to act like jerks joining Solas is already crossing a line they should not encourage. 

[Wulfram]

Joining Solas in his plan would have been a controversial move on Bioware's part. It's encourages players to accept genocidical schemes and disregard the rights of other people. Even if players chose to act like jerks joining Solas is already crossing a line they should not encourage.

They haven't really been shy about letting us accept genocidal plans in the past. What with the Krogan Genophage, the Dalish/Werewolves in DAO, the Annulment of two circles and the Geth.

Admittedly this is rather bigger than most of those.

[SirGladiator]

I can't really see why anybody would want to join Solas in this crazy mass murder campaign, even other Elves.  I mean, no matter how much you want your fellow elves to be helped, what kind of person wants to do it by literally killing everybody else in the world?  Nobody sane, that's for sure.  The fact that Solas' plans never just go as intended, they all have these incredible, catastrophic side-effects, you'd think he'd start his next plan some other way than 'Now I need to kill almost everybody in the world' .  I mean, that's gonna be unspeakably evil and horrible even 'before' you get to the side-effects.  Certainly no Inquisitor would ever say 'yes, that's a great idea, kill almost everybody in the world, just so long as you take me along for the ride'.

[Emerald Rift]

I can't really see why anybody would want to join Solas in this crazy mass murder campaign, even other Elves.  I mean, no matter how much you want your fellow elves to be helped, what kind of person wants to do it by literally killing everybody else in the world?  Nobody sane, that's for sure.  The fact that Solas' plans never just go as intended, they all have these incredible, catastrophic side-effects, you'd think he'd start his next plan some other way than 'Now I need to kill almost everybody in the world' .  I mean, that's gonna be unspeakably evil and horrible even 'before' you get to the side-effects.  Certainly no Inquisitor would ever say 'yes, that's a great idea, kill almost everybody in the world, just so long as you take me along for the ride'.

 

 

I agree, I don't understand how anyone would even take the option to even suggest joining him and my Inquisitor romanced him.

[Estel Lavellan]

I can't really see why anybody would want to join Solas in this crazy mass murder campaign, even other Elves.  I mean, no matter how much you want your fellow elves to be helped, what kind of person wants to do it by literally killing everybody else in the world?  Nobody sane, that's for sure.  The fact that Solas' plans never just go as intended, they all have these incredible, catastrophic side-effects, you'd think he'd start his next plan some other way than 'Now I need to kill almost everybody in the world' .  I mean, that's gonna be unspeakably evil and horrible even 'before' you get to the side-effects.  Certainly no Inquisitor would ever say 'yes, that's a great idea, kill almost everybody in the world, just so long as you take me along for the ride'.

 

If unmaking the world leads to a better one, then why not? Defending the status quo is not heroism in itself, despite what superhero comics may tell you. When a 'villain' comes out and says we need drastic change, the heroes immediately object because 'people will die' and all that. But what did the heroes do anyway? They simply try to preserve things as they are, including all the corruption, decadence, ignorance, selfishness etcetc in this world, simply because they fear change; or worse, that they want change but don't want to get their hands bloody for it. I've played too many games where the hero's default code is 'no collateral damage' and 'protect everything that is'. In Dragon Age, the heroes can potentially not be that sort of person. The Inquisitor can potentially see the big picture and be the person who works for the greater good, and bears the consequences on his/her conscience as a result of that. And Lavellan, she literally grew up listening to tales about how far the elven people has fallen, from this ultra-advanced master race to essentially second-class citizens and exiled, scattered clans. Just imagine what Lavellan must have thought when she sees the Temple of Mythal, or even better the Crossroads. To be so reminded of her people's lost legacy...I can't imagine there's any Lavellan who would not be moved. A stereotypically heroic Lavellan, or one who has grown fond of humans, might reject Solas' proposal despite everything. But there are also very canonical versions of Lavellan who might be disgusted with the human kingdoms of this world and committed to the Dalish vision. Hence, a very natural choice for those inquisitors would be to join Solas, romance or no.

 

Plus as you can see from the above 10 pages or so of conversations, whether Solas' plan would 'literally kill everyone in the world' is still unclear. So regardless of your opinions, you're still basing your opinion on a mere possibility. 

[Estel Lavellan]

Joining Solas in his plan would have been a controversial move on Bioware's part. It's encourages players to accept genocidical schemes and disregard the rights of other people. Even if players chose to act like jerks joining Solas is already crossing a line they should not encourage. 

 

That said, the Inquisitor can be played to be an ambitious, selfish power-grabber at worst, by making canonical choices already existent in-game. I daresay Bioware is not one to shy away from controversy in letting players define their own hero/villain.

 

Also, Solas' plan is not a genocidal scheme. It's more like a state of war - to put other peoples at risk in order to better your own people. And Thedas is full of those isn't it? The Qun wars against the Imperium, Orlais wars against Ferelden, Templars war against mages, the reformed Circle wars against the College of Enchanters...there is no non-self-serving faction in Thedas, and hence no innocent victim that Solas' plan would endanger. Plus have you paid attention to the history of Thedas? The Dalish may have gotten all their stories wrong, but the fact that elves have been oppressed, left without their own nation and subject to blatant racism and bigotry - that is an undeniable truth. Consider Solas' plan an act of war between the elves and mankind, a reckoning for the centuries of abysmal conditions elves have been forced into - and tell me whether such a plan is so controversial now.

[LOLandStuff]

The modern elves will die along with the other races. No exception made.

Got to break it to you, but Solas doesn't even consider them his people, just the ancient elves, and he's stated this several times.

Saying the elves will be restored to their former glory is just wishful thinking. And the previous world was no better than this one, where everyone was a slave squatting in the mud.

[Estel Lavellan]

The modern elves will die along with the other races. No exception made.

Got to break it to you, but Solas doesn't even consider them his people, just the ancient elves, and he's stated this several times.

Saying the elves will be restored to their former glory is just wishful thinking. And the previous world was no better than this one, where everyone was a slave squatting in the mud.

 

That kind of certainty, you must be Bioware's head developer!

[LOLandStuff]

That kind of certainty, you must be Bioware's head developer!

 

Want some spoilers with that retort?

[Fisva]

We must remember that every choice leads to the point of the plot that will have an impact on future games which probably are already written and planned in advance. Therefore, Bioware makes an "illusion" that you have a choice, but all your decisions lead to the same consequences, sooner or later. That is why they can't give us too many choices to make, because it would be more diffcult to lead through them to the same point of the plot. However, I have also thought why my Lavellan couldn't join Solas - which she would gladly do - rather than stay with the Inquisition.

[X Equestris]

That said, the Inquisitor can be played to be an ambitious, selfish power-grabber at worst, by making canonical choices already existent in-game. I daresay Bioware is not one to shy away from controversy in letting players define their own hero/villain.
 
Also, Solas' plan is not a genocidal scheme. It's more like a state of war - to put other peoples at risk in order to better your own people. And Thedas is full of those isn't it? The Qun wars against the Imperium, Orlais wars against Ferelden, Templars war against mages, the reformed Circle wars against the College of Enchanters...there is no non-self-serving faction in Thedas, and hence no innocent victim that Solas' plan would endanger. Plus have you paid attention to the history of Thedas? The Dalish may have gotten all their stories wrong, but the fact that elves have been oppressed, left without their own nation and subject to blatant racism and bigotry - that is an undeniable truth. Consider Solas' plan an act of war between the elves and mankind, a reckoning for the centuries of abysmal conditions elves have been forced into - and tell me whether such a plan is so controversial now.

I can think of a few genocidal dictators who operated on similar reasoning. Solas believes his plan could result in the deaths of near everyone, yet he's perfectly willing to go ahead with it. So yes, his plan is just as controversial even with your flimsy justifications.

[Cobra's_back]

The modern elves will die along with the other races. No exception made.

Got to break it to you, but Solas doesn't even consider them his people, just the ancient elves, and he's stated this several times.

Saying the elves will be restored to their former glory is just wishful thinking. And the previous world was no better than this one, where everyone was a slave squatting in the mud.

 

It was worst as one would expect. He stated the fake god were going to destroy it. What can go wrong with a world that has a few godlike beings ruling over the masses.

[ModernAcademic]

Joining Solas in his plan would have been a controversial move on Bioware's part. It's encourages players to accept genocidical schemes and disregard the rights of other people. Even if players chose to act like jerks joining Solas is already crossing a line they should not encourage. 

 

It disturbs me how he speaks of his people as being special, different from the rest of the world, which he doesn't even consider as being real people.

 

It's discrimination elevated to an infinitesimal degree.

[thats1evildude]

You want to help Solas? He's responsible for thousands of deaths! He plans to butcher millions more! He broke your heart! His schemes cost you an arm!

 

but i wuv him

 

Oh, well, say no more.

[fhs33721]

Go ahead. Have fun while the veil breaks down, the Nightmare's giant fear-spiders lay eggs into your eyesockets and everyone dies while Solas is busy fighting off the other now freed elven gods, without you. Because he outright states that restoring his people will mean the end of yours even if you are an elf.

And those elves hes gathering around him? I'm in no way convinced that he has any plan to make them survive at all. He'll more likely use them to reach his endgame and then .... probably throw them under the bus as the world burns. With great sorow and regret maybe but nontheless.

[Lone_War]

Ok, Solas' plan to restore the world is to Tear Down the Veil.

 

A few SMALL cracks in the veil left the world littered with corrupted spirits known as demons near them. Tearing down the veil will probably turn EVERY SINGLE SPIRIT in the Veil into a demon from the rapid change, and then let place them into the world in full. That does NOT take into account that tearing down the veil will immediately turn EVERY SINGLE PERSON INTO A MAGE, with NO Training.

 

So now you have demons every 10 feet, and everyone is a  super powered mage. And do you REALLY think that the world could survive this, in the short term? The ONLY people I see surviving this are the Keepers (NOT the clan as a whole, just the Keepers and maybe the very advanced Firsts.), the Higher skilled mages of each race, and those trapped on desert islands, that are good enough at combat to kill the couple of hundred demons that will be created from the spirits that inhabit those islands...

 

That is what tearing down the veil will do. And you want to be a part of that?!?!?!?

 

Oh and in addition to that, its also going to unleash 7 REALLY PISSED, REALLY POWERFUL, REALLY EVIL Solas' on top of it...

 

Oh yes, and it also brings in the Nightmare Demon into the world...

[Vit246]

Ok, Solas' plan to restore the world is to Tear Down the Veil.

 

A few SMALL cracks in the veil left the world littered with corrupted spirits known as demons near them. Tearing down the veil will probably turn EVERY SINGLE SPIRIT in the Veil into a demon from the rapid change, and then let place them into the world in full. That does NOT take into account that tearing down the veil will immediately turn EVERY SINGLE PERSON INTO A MAGE, with NO Training.

 

So now you have demons every 10 feet, and everyone is a  super powered mage. And do you REALLY think that the world could survive this, in the short term? The ONLY people I see surviving this are the Keepers (NOT the clan as a whole, just the Keepers and maybe the very advanced Firsts.), the Higher skilled mages of each race, and those trapped on desert islands, that are good enough at combat to kill the couple of hundred demons that will be created from the spirits that inhabit those islands...

 

That is what tearing down the veil will do. And you want to be a part of that?!?!?!?

 

Oh and in addition to that, its also going to unleash 7 REALLY PISSED, REALLY POWERFUL, REALLY EVIL Solas' on top of it...

 

Oh yes, and it also brings in the Nightmare Demon into the world...

 

.....alright look.

I'm pretty sure Solas has an actual plan for dealing with that part.

And second, the world used to not have a Veil and I'm reasonably certain it was not a demonic hellhole, what with the elven empire and all that, so.... *shrug*

[The Baconer]

.....alright look.

I'm pretty sure Solas has an actual plan for dealing with that part.

 

His plans do tend to go over smoothly, yes.

[Vit246]

I guess I'm just tired of this bandwagon thing that Solas can never and will never do anything right.

[Catche Jagger]

I guess I'm just tired of this bandwagon thing that Solas can never and will never do anything right.

This isn't some bandwagon thing. Solas is going to destroy Thedas as we know it, killing virtually everyone, including all those characters that we've made and companions we care about. These are the facts of what he is doing. Plain and simple.

Solas is a fairly sympathetic guy, and we can debate whether he should be forgiven/redeemed for his actions, but siding with him is ridiculous.

[thats1evildude]

I guess I'm just tired of this bandwagon thing that Solas can never and will never do anything right.

I can sympathize with his motives while condemning his actions.

Putting aside all the consequences for Thedas, you know that Solas will die if he tears down the Veil, right? Even if he isn't swallowed whole by the ensuing cataclysm, the elven god-kings weren't the most reasonable of entities; they're not going to be happy about the whole "sealing us away for millenia" thing. If you want to help Solas, then stop him.

[Cagamelo]

I imagine that's because the Inquisitor isn't a villain.

Even if the elves are in no danger when the veil get's destroyed it better kill all other races right there and then. Why? What do you think the other races will do once they realized "elves" are destroying the world? There are plenty of reports of mobs of random people killing mages on sight, now picture that fear expanded worldwide to elves. Alienages would be purged and millions would march on the Dalish.

 

One a side note Lavellan waiting 2 years for Solas after he breaks up and runs away, then attempting to join him may be one of the worst cases of obsession I've ever seen, all that's missing is a display of jealousy when he mentions Mythal.

[Vit246]

This isn't some bandwagon thing. Solas is going to destroy Thedas as we know it, killing virtually everyone, including all those characters that we've made and companions we care about. These are the facts of what he is doing. Plain and simple.

Solas is a fairly sympathetic guy, and we can debate whether he should be forgiven/redeemed for his actions, but siding with him is ridiculous.

 

The thing is, players are taking the whole "destroy the world" thing very literally. And I'm just not convinced its as simple as that.

[myahele]

The world might not be destroyed, but civilizations and people will.

 

Afterall, if an Archdemon is successful, the world will simply be filled with Darkspawn. Is the world destroyed, then?

[Lunatic Lace]

The thing is, players are taking the whole "destroy the world" thing very literally. And I'm just not convinced its as simple as that.

If I said I'm going to eat a sandwich, by saying "I'm going to eat this sandwich", you'd better believe I'm going to eat that sandwich. If I tell you repeatedly that I'm going to eat said sandwich, and devour each and every french fry that came with it (but quickly, so they don't get soggy/suffer), it's probably your best bet to take that at face value until proven otherwise. That happy meal is doomed.

Solas might be sneaky and sly, but he's articulate enough to relay a message if he really wants to. If he says he's going to destroy the world, he's going to destroy the world. If he says he's going to kill a lot of people, he's gonna kill a lot of people. He knows what he's going to do is terrible, he says so, and he wants you to stop him. He's telling you that the situation is grave, that the world is on the line. If it wasn't going to be absolutely awful for the people currently existing in Thedas then he wouldn't ask you to think of a way to stop him. There wouldn't really be a reason to.

I've said it before, but people who think that whatever is going to happen will be less than an absolute atrocity are being very, very optimistic/naive.