337 réponses à ce sujet

[actionhero112]

The thing is, players are taking the whole "destroy the world" thing very literally. And I'm just not convinced its as simple as that.

 

And yet all we have to go on is to take Solas at his face value. He condemns his own plan even as he explains it to you. Opening the veil will cause modern thedas to burn in the fires of chaos, and innocents will be slain.  Solas has also distanced himself from modern elves and on several occasions has outright stated he doesn't identify with them, he only sympathizes with them, as he does for all races. 

 

When asked, would you murder countless people, solas replies, "wouldn't you, to save your own?" 

 

You may not be convinced, but from what we know now, it's largely wishful thinking on your part. 

[Flurdt Vash]

Why can't we just...join Solas?

 

Becouse we already used that option with Morrigan in Witch Hunt, dont want to over use the story arc or anything  

[ModernAcademic]

The thing is, players are taking the whole "destroy the world" thing very literally. And I'm just not convinced its as simple as that.

 

Well, Solas does say everyone will have to die for his plan to work.

Those are his words in Trespasser. Straight from his mouth.

[Estel Lavellan]

Well, Solas does say everyone will have to die for his plan to work.
Those are his words in Trespasser. Straight from his mouth.

are you sure you are playing the same game as us? because last i checked, not even corypheus said sth like 'everyone will have to die for my plan to work'.

[Andreas Amell]

They haven't really been shy about letting us accept genocidal plans in the past. What with the Krogan Genophage, the Dalish/Werewolves in DAO, the Annulment of two circles and the Geth.

Admittedly this is rather bigger than most of those.

Later on Mass Effect players complained at the end when the final decisions made those irrelevant. We won't be recruiting allies by joining Solas, it's collaborating with widespread extinction. That's not even war. 

[Andreas Amell]

If unmaking the world leads to a better one, then why not? Defending the status quo is not heroism in itself, despite what superhero comics may tell you. When a 'villain' comes out and says we need drastic change, the heroes immediately object because 'people will die' and all that. But what did the heroes do anyway? They simply try to preserve things as they are, including all the corruption, decadence, ignorance, selfishness etcetc in this world, simply because they fear change; or worse, that they want change but don't want to get their hands bloody for it. I've played too many games where the hero's default code is 'no collateral damage' and 'protect everything that is'. In Dragon Age, the heroes can potentially not be that sort of person. The Inquisitor can potentially see the big picture and be the person who works for the greater good, and bears the consequences on his/her conscience as a result of that. And Lavellan, she literally grew up listening to tales about how far the elven people has fallen, from this ultra-advanced master race to essentially second-class citizens and exiled, scattered clans. Just imagine what Lavellan must have thought when she sees the Temple of Mythal, or even better the Crossroads. To be so reminded of her people's lost legacy...I can't imagine there's any Lavellan who would not be moved. A stereotypically heroic Lavellan, or one who has grown fond of humans, might reject Solas' proposal despite everything. But there are also very canonical versions of Lavellan who might be disgusted with the human kingdoms of this world and committed to the Dalish vision. Hence, a very natural choice for those inquisitors would be to join Solas, romance or no.

 

Plus as you can see from the above 10 pages or so of conversations, whether Solas' plan would 'literally kill everyone in the world' is still unclear. So regardless of your opinions, you're still basing your opinion on a mere possibility. 

Don't mix up comics with these video games. Personally I don't care if Darkseid were to wipe out most of Earth before the Justice League of America stopped him. Somebody will write another story where that never happened. The bigger crimes that supehero comics commit is the stunting of progress in face of the scientific leaps they reveal. People in DC and Marvel comics should already be making the step of migrating to other planets and all that science fiction stuff. Instead they have us focus on the adventures of a few superhumans who decide Earth's fate. 

 

That is very different from what we do as players in these games. We're each given the ability to determine the fate of nations. If Bioware expects us to choose to just kill millions because one race lost its glory then they're teaching us to become immoral. It's simplifying the issue as 'breaking a few eggs to make an omelette'. 

[Estel Lavellan]

Don't mix up comics with these video games. Personally I don't care if Darkseid were to wipe out most of Earth before the Justice League of America stopped him. Somebody will write another story where that never happened. The bigger crimes that supehero comics commit is the stunting of progress in face of the scientific leaps they reveal. People in DC and Marvel comics should already be making the step of migrating to other planets and all that science fiction stuff. Instead they have us focus on the adventures of a few superhumans who decide Earth's fate. 

 

That is very different from what we do as players in these games. We're each given the ability to determine the fate of nations. If Bioware expects us to choose to just kill millions because one race lost its glory then they're teaching us to become immoral. It's simplifying the issue as 'breaking a few eggs to make an omelette'. 

 

You'e missing my point. To simplify, in comics you have 'small-steps-heroes', people who try to preserve the status quo and who obsess over the 'I have a code and I won't kill' things, etc. It's done for a variety of reasons - to be audience-friendly, to be politically correct, whatever. But it need not - and indeed is not - the case in Thedas. It's true what you said about the chosen few deciding the fate of an entire world, but that's not my point here anyway.

 

Thedas is not an idealistic universe - it's fraught with difficult choices, sacrifices for change, and with the status quo being a bunch of mundane, stuck-up nobles and commoners infighting even when they should unite. Thedas is where the Herald of Andraste gets turned upon by the nations he/she saved, and where his/her heroic legacy could potentially end up to be nothing besides one less arm. The inquisitor, hence, should be played to be morally flexible, having a wider notion of good and bad, right and wrong. Indeed you're not playing Dragon Age right if you're held up by this limited view of morality. 

[Cobra's_back]

are you sure you are playing the same game as us? because last i checked, not even corypheus said sth like 'everyone will have to die for my plan to work'.

Better stated he needs to save ancient elves and you are not one of them. He states your world will burn. If you ask to help him, he states there is only death in this journey. I give you a few years of peace. I'm not a monster but your people have to die so that mine can live. Who do you think is going to die? Why do you think you will live? Nothing he stated points to the fact that you or he will make it.

 

There are ancient elves and not just the ones in the temple. You meet one in TME.

[Catche Jagger]

The thing is, players are taking the whole "destroy the world" thing very literally. And I'm just not convinced its as simple as that.

That's why I said "destroy Thedas AS WE KNOW IT" and "VIRTUALLY everyone." Whatever Solas does is going to bring death on a massive scale. It doesn't need to kill every single person on Thedas to be horrible. Sacrificing all those lives, MOST LIKELY INCLUDING THOSE OF OUR OWN CHARACTERS is not alright.

[X Equestris]

The thing is, players are taking the whole "destroy the world" thing very literally. And I'm just not convinced its as simple as that.

When you ask Solas why he tipped you off to the Qunari plot, he says that "If your people would die, I would have them do it in comfort". That gives the heavy implication that almost all, if not all, people who aren't ancient elves will die.

[CoM Solaufein]

So nice of him, to let us elves die in comfort. How comforting.

[fhs33721]

It's not all bad. In order to stop Solas we just have to bring a few bears. Those always mauled him into submisson when he was still working for my Inquisitor. Maybe Storvaker can help?

[Cagamelo]

It just occurred to me that joining Solas could be an option for a romanced Lavellan, but you should be punished by being unable to import said save into the next game since you effectively destroy the world. I couple of those "story ending" choices would be pretty sweet actually.

[Cobra's_back]

It just occurred to me that joining Solas could be an option for a romanced Lavellan, but you should be punished by being unable to import said save into the next game since you effectively destroy the world. I couple of those "story ending" choices would be pretty sweet actually.

That would be funny. You also have to watch everyone die including yourself, and none of that fade to black stuff.

[Estel Lavellan]

It just occurred to me that joining Solas could be an option for a romanced Lavellan, but you should be punished by being unable to import said save into the next game since you effectively destroy the world. I couple of those "story ending" choices would be pretty sweet actually.

 

Solas doesn't immediately win if you join him. If Lavellan joins Solas, he/she would probably just be a respected lieutenant in the movement, or maybe even a key agent. But there's no direct success. Things will still have to play out in DA4. So don't worry about importing saves.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Gaspard on the throne was a bug. Seeing as it happens if he's dead.

 

I've been wondering that myself. Since my Inquisitor got Gaspard executed and helped Celene and Briala reconcile. Although Celene in Arbor Wilds makes reference to her cousin Gaspard talking about the weather changing in the court. I guess it's possible that Celene has another distant another cousin named Gaspard that she might be grooming to be her heir. 

 

Back to topic: My Dalish Inquisitor married Sera and I'm pretty sure Sera would never forgive her if she didn't outright kill her if sided with Solas. What about the LIs if she married Cullen, Blackwall, Josie, The Iron Bull, or a male Dalish elf married Dorian or Cassandra. Is the Dalish Elf supposed to throw away people that s/he loved on some half-baked plan to restore the ancient elves. Plus given how Solas' last plan to tear down the Veil turned out and his weak answer about about having a plan to beat the rest of the elven "gods siding with him is stupid.     

[electrifried]

Ok one thing I don't get is how he can convince elves to join him when he doesn't even consider the modern elves as his people.Is he just amassing an army of some sorts over the next few years and using them for his own gain?

 

I can't see the inquisitor joining Solas in his plans at all, it's just too ridiculous. Hearing a romanced Lavellan say 'we have to save him' and 'let me join you' was cringeworthy enough.

[Reznore57]

Ok one thing I don't get is how he can convince elves to join him when he doesn't even consider the modern elves as his people.Is he just amassing an army of some sorts over the next few years and using them for his own gain?

 

I can't see the inquisitor joining Solas in his plans at all, it's just too ridiculous. Hearing a romanced Lavellan say 'we have to save him' and 'let me join you' was cringeworthy enough.

 

Some would join him even if he tells the truth , because some elves simply don't have much to loose.

But Solas isn't afraid of lying or manipulating people when it suits him.

Yes , yes , he's very sorry about it but he will do it anyway.

[Milan92]

So many suicidal Lavellans on this board, smh.

 

[Andreas Amell]

You'e missing my point. To simplify, in comics you have 'small-steps-heroes', people who try to preserve the status quo and who obsess over the 'I have a code and I won't kill' things, etc. It's done for a variety of reasons - to be audience-friendly, to be politically correct, whatever. But it need not - and indeed is not - the case in Thedas. It's true what you said about the chosen few deciding the fate of an entire world, but that's not my point here anyway.

 

Thedas is not an idealistic universe - it's fraught with difficult choices, sacrifices for change, and with the status quo being a bunch of mundane, stuck-up nobles and commoners infighting even when they should unite. Thedas is where the Herald of Andraste gets turned upon by the nations he/she saved, and where his/her heroic legacy could potentially end up to be nothing besides one less arm. The inquisitor, hence, should be played to be morally flexible, having a wider notion of good and bad, right and wrong. Indeed you're not playing Dragon Age right if you're held up by this limited view of morality. 

Once again you don't get it. It's different when we're reading superhero comics where those characters tell us what is right or wrong. When we play we are now given the power to decide what is right or wrong. But even when choosing to be like a jerk we are not given the choice to just let it all burn at someone else's wishes. The earliest promos for Inquisition said "Lead them or Fall". We play warlords sanctioned by a dead authority to bring peace and stability. If we're given the choice to follow Solas then we become sheep. Not even choosing to lead under Divine Victoria is that big a cop out. If you don't think it's dishonorable, then consider it as a lack of integrity. But you'd rather we give that up because all the thanks we get is a loss of a hand. Boo hoo. An entire generation was maimed back in the Great War, but they're still treated as heroes. 

[pdusen]

There's lots of good reasons not to join Solas, not the least of which is that his plans have a history of backfiring catastrophically.

[TammieAZ]

Can't believe people are actually even considering joining him? After everything he's seen , forged friendships with half of the group . He  still set his mind on killing millions of innocent ,men,women,and children and also yourself.  .....bad ..bad dog...
I see us /Lavellans giving Solas the Jean Gray treatment  with our last words being either I love you or goodbye. 
 

 

  

Can he really be redeemed ? I don't believe  so..

[ArianaGBSA]

There's lots of good reasons not to join Solas, not the least of which is that his plans have a history of backfiring catastrophically.

Reasons for you, which is not the point. We should be able to choose. I've been complaining about it since they force us to be against Corypheus. RPGs forcing you to be the good guy is a very bad thing, but in their defense all RPGs make even evil guys joing you to stop a bigger threat, all games are way too lazy to allow you to choose.

[Shienis]

Reasons for you, which is not the point. We should be able to choose. I've been complaining about it since they force us to be against Corypheus. RPGs forcing you to be the good guy is a very bad thing, but in their defense all RPGs make even evil guys joing you to stop a bigger threat, all games are way too lazy to allow you to choose.

 

Play D&D then. (or something similar) It's impossible to incorporate infinite choices into a video game, unless you want to spend decades in development.

[Almostfaceman]

So nice of him, to let us elves die in comfort. How comforting.

 

On it's face, it's monstrous. If you dig a little deeper though, you'll understand he's giving us a huge "heads up" on what's going to happen. He's giving us a chance to a) stop him or b ) help achieve his goal without killing so many. That's why he doesn't kill the Inquisitor. 

 

And NO I'm not saying he should be given any "Elf of the Year" awards.