337 réponses à ce sujet

[Estel Lavellan]

Sure, I'd love that, and they could do it, as they did with the Orlesian Warden in Awakening.  But they've said in the past that they didn't like the way that turned out, so I guess that's a nope.

 

Too bad, though, because I'd love the chance to play a character who wasn't always on the side of good, and that goes beyond just having a bad attitude.  The only game I can think of that allowed this ending was Obsidian's NWN2, but, even then, it was game over, as I don't think you could play the expansions with a character who sided with the King of Shadows.

 

I don't like to measure it in terms of 'good'. I mean, the heroic fiction nowadays often puts such a narrow definition on 'good' right? 'Good' means 'defender of the status quo'. X-men, superman, spiderman, whoever, they usually just declare 'the world is beautiful and I'm going to defend it'. Depending on how cynical you are regarding the modern world, it could be a defensible goal. But Thedas? It is a downright shithole compared to the fantasy realms of most other games and novels. The nations are all flawed, there is corruption everywhere, humanity has been mired in chaos and devastation without any technological or moral advancement. Saving the world from another blight just buys the Orlesians time to host a few more parties, and the Fereldens to get drunk for another decade. On the other hand, I consider Lavellan to be more of her own elven people than the inquisition, especially considering that by Trespasser even having been the Herald of Andraste and killed Corypheus, she still isn't universally accepted by Thedas as a hero. I don't see anything 'evil' with helping her own people and choosing their own path. The people of Thedas have already been saved by the Herald of Andraste. But stepping down and becoming Lavellan again, I'd say she's earned her right to do damn well whatever she pleases, including restoring the People.

[Almostfaceman]

But that's the trick, isn't it - he doesn't differentiate modern elves from other races. "Your people" means whole modern Thedas, meaning the modern elves will have to die like everyone else. Or the elves lived in some other world? Hm, last I checked they didn't.

 

This disregards the fact that Solas is gathering the modern elves to him for when he tears down the Veil and reconnects elves to the Fade. Logic dictates this will benefit the modern elves, since it's been demonstrated they still have a connection to the fade. Sera and the Inquisitor (if they're an elf) see things in the crossroads and in the rift that others cannot. All evidence points to a restoration for those who want it and and are under his protection. He does see, as do we all, that not all modern elves are going to go to him and he expects them to die in the chaos. He doesn't expect the Inquisitor to join his effort, since the Inquisitor doesn't want the chaos resulting in Solas's plan. 

 

Now, if anyone can demonstrate that the elves have no longer this connection to the fade (and they can't) and that they've mutated somehow that they can't be restored (they can't) then they may have some argument that better explains why Solas is drawing modern elves to him. 

[jlb524]

When asked about releasing them, all he said was "I had plans".

Yeah, I know this line from the dlc.

He had 'plans' for them in the first place. That all worked out swell. And his 'plans' for the orb and Coryphenus worked out pretty well too.

[LOLandStuff]

Solas has more like ideas than plans. Dumb ones too.

[renfrees]

Sigh, Solavellans. They're worse than "Anders did nothing wrong!" defenders.

[Uirebhiril]

This disregards the fact that Solas is gathering the modern elves to him for when he tears down the Veil and reconnects elves to the Fade. Logic dictates this will benefit the modern elves, since it's been demonstrated they still have a connection to the fade. Sera and the Inquisitor (if they're an elf) see things in the crossroads and in the rift that others cannot. All evidence points to a restoration for those who want it and and are under his protection. He does see, as do we all, that not all modern elves are going to go to him and he expects them to die in the chaos. He doesn't expect the Inquisitor to join his effort, since the Inquisitor doesn't want the chaos resulting in Solas's plan. 

 

Or Solas plans to pull a Magister and sacrifice all that lovely elf blood in some massive blood magic ritual to help with the breaching the Fade thing.

 

It could be someone other than Solas that is gathering the elves, for whatever reason.

 

I'm not sitting firm by either of those ideas, but you can come up with any number of reasons otherwise. If Solas sees the modern elves being all right -- and they may well be -- then why wouldn't he allow his friend or lover the same protection and security should they want it? If he was making another world that could benefit them as well, why turn them away?

 

The main reason is probably that they need the Inquisitor in some way for the next game. Story wise it seems like Solas is leaving someone to try and stop him. However these points come together is going to be really interesting.

[Cobra's_back]

What I found peculiar about that, is if you ask him why our people have to die, he says he can't tell you, then he mentions everything burning in the raw chaos. Interesting thing to note is, he is also surprised when we enter the raw Fade and survive. Either he thinks the Fade will kill everyone but those powerful enough to survive (even spirits are afraid Cole said), or what I fear it might actually be is, he is going to kill everyone himself except those like Abelas and start over like a frickin' Sims game.

 

Both are possible. I know he did not want to answer the question "why we needed to die". That makes me feel as you stated, "he intends to kill us all".  Who knows he may need our lives to fuel his power SCARY.

[ctd757]

I think my Inquisitor would join Solas even though he loves Josephine he lost his whole clan hid old life. And while he didn't really help Briala he is still an Elf that wants the best for his people

[Uirebhiril]

Sigh, Solavellans. They're worse than "Anders did nothing wrong!" defenders.

 

Watch how wide you paint that brush. I see more of "us" being all "apocalypse boyfriend is an idiot" and fully on board with his new antagonist role. He's too good a character to reduce to a few romance scenes, as well done as those were. Riding that sinking ship as long as it floats just means we can appreciate the story all the better.

[Estel Lavellan]

Aaand I don't think any more productive conversations will come of this. Mainly because for a lot of people here, Solas' plans aren't even an open question anymore - they've already made up their own versions of his plan. 'Oh he'll do this, he'll do that'. Solas is still an unknown quantity. We don't know what plans he have for dealing with the Evanuris, or the full extent of his vision for the future. We don't know what will or will not happen to modern elves. We don't even know much of what he intends to do next. All that was indicated is that there will be death, and there will be collateral damage. And yet people are already arguing the point as if Solas's already sent us a 300 page copy of his plans.

 

Bottom line, my only point in the op is: that Lavellan might have cause to join Solas, and considering it's already the end of her adventure, Bioware might as well give us the option to choose so. That's all. For Lavellans who don't agree with Solas, ok, don't choose that option. But it could be there. Bioware already included the option for us to declare that we support Solas, but weirdly at the end we must still declare that we will stop him. That's the whole point of the op, and we're being fools trying to decide whose conjecture of future plot comes closest to the truth.  

[renfrees]

 

Hey don't put all of us in that category. I'm ready to drag him back by the ear and seal him away if I have to in order to save the people of Thedas. 

 

 

Watch how wide you paint that brush. I see more of "us" being all "apocalypse boyfriend is an idiot" and fully on board with his new antagonist role.   He's too good a character to reduce to a few romance scenes, as well done as those were. Riding that sinking ship as long as it floats just means we can appreciate the story all the better.

 

 

Hey, I romanced him too, but I know when to draw a line instead of playing dumb and chanting "He didn't really mean this!"

[Estel Lavellan]

Sigh, Solavellans. They're worse than "Anders did nothing wrong!" defenders.

 

For the record, my Lavellan was friends with Solas, and did not romance him. They but share a common vision.

[Almostfaceman]

Or Solas plans to pull a Magister and sacrifice all that lovely elf blood in some massive blood magic ritual to help with the breaching the Fade thing.

 

It could be someone other than Solas that is gathering the elves, for whatever reason.

 

I'm not sitting firm by either of those ideas, but you can come up with any number of reasons otherwise. If Solas sees the modern elves being all right -- and they may well be -- then why wouldn't he allow his friend or lover the same protection and security should they want it? If he was making another world that could benefit them as well, why turn them away?

 

The main reason is probably that they need the Inquisitor in some way for the next game. Story wise it seems like Solas is leaving someone to try and stop him. However these points come together is going to be really interesting.

 

Those reasons aren't better explanations, mine are the best. If you can pull examples of Solas using blood magic and sacrificing people to meet his ends (using blood magic) and better explanations for the giant exodus of the elves coinciding with the emergence of the Dread Wolf, go for it. Otherwise, you're pulling these things out of your metaphorical butt. 

 

I explained why he didn't offer his protection to he Inquisitor in my previous post. Yes, people can mention any number of possibilities, but they don't hold water if not backed up by what we've seen in the story. 

[BabyPuncher]

I have no intention of purchasing Trespasser, but what possible reason does the Inquisitor have to be 'frustrated' at the politics of Thedas?

 

The Inquisitor is a vapid dullard who was literally handed the world on a silver platter out of sheer contrived narrative power of being Just That Awesome.

 

Is that just not good enough? Every mean old politician has to bow down to their every whim?

[Tielis]

The only thing we know for certain is that he will flub it up one way or another.  

[Almostfaceman]

The only thing we know for certain is that he will flub it up one way or another.  

 

Not according the the prophecy of Sandal. 

[Uirebhiril]

Aaand I don't think any more productive conversations will come of this. Mainly because for a lot of people here, Solas' plans aren't even an open question anymore - they've already made up their own versions of his plan. 'Oh he'll do this, he'll do that'. Solas is still an unknown quantity. We don't know what plans he have for dealing with the Evanuris, or the full extent of his vision for the future. We don't know what will or will not happen to modern elves. We don't even know much of what he intends to do next. All that was indicated is that there will be death, and there will be collateral damage. And yet people are already arguing the point as if Solas's already sent us a 300 page copy of his plans.

 

You're right, we don't know. For all we know, he is being compelled by Mythal to the end he is seeking. Someone else might be pulling larger strings. There's a lot left to the story that we are not yet aware of, and enough pieces of the puzzle left out that we could be completely wrong about any of the ideas we've come up with, or with what Solas appears to be heading for. I don't like the idea of him being a murdering idiot, but if that's his role in the story I will respect him as the antagonist. I will also appreciate a character that is more layers than black and white, and that we could come to empathize with and even love. You can't take just the good or just the bad of any character, but that's especially so in the case of Solas. You do him a disservice either way, and he's the first to tell you the good stories written of him give him more credit than he deserves. If you try to gloss over the horror of what he admittedly intends to do, he tells you you're wrong. If anyone should know what he is talking about, it is him.

 

People want to hate him, that's their right. He doesn't look very good at the moment, and no matter what you say they'll be certain he's an evil murderer. Some want to defend and love him at all costs and feel he is misunderstood and redeemable. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, because you know what? I'd lay bets that whatever is coming will be more complicated than that.

[Estel Lavellan]

I have no intention of purchasing Trespasser, but what possible reason does the Inquisitor have to be 'frustrated' at the politics of Thedas?

 

The Inquisitor is a vapid dullard who was literally handed the world on a silver platter out of sheer contrived narrative power of being Just That Awesome.

 

Is that just not good enough? Every mean old politician has to bow down to their every whim?

 

That's the point of Trespasser - The inquisition saved the world and killed Corypheus. Two years later, Ferelden wants it to disband, Orlais wants to control it for its own ends, and the Herald realizes that she's only 'Herald' insofar as there is still a common enemy to fight. She did not get 'handed the world on a silver platter' - if anything, she's the one that's made to hold the silver platter while everyone scrambles for cover. Two years later, the world dust themselves off and asks for the platter back. Aside from two years or so being Thedas' favourite hero, the Herald can be said to have gained nothing from her tenure as Inquisitor. Some friends, some fame, but ultimately it wasn't even her power to hold.

[Tielis]

Not according the the prophecy of Sandal.

 

Well, yes, that would be a flub if he thinks that everyone will die.  OMG they survive LOL I would love to see his face!  I know, he'd be happy, but you know as well as I do that something is going to go terribly, terribly awry.

[Cobra's_back]

Those reasons aren't better explanations, mine are the best. If you can pull examples of Solas using blood magic and sacrificing people to meet his ends (using blood magic) and better explanations for the giant exodus of the elves coinciding with the emergence of the Dread Wolf, go for it. Otherwise, you're pulling these things out of your metaphorical butt. 

 

I explained why he didn't offer his protection to he Inquisitor in my previous post. Yes, people can mention any number of possibilities, but they don't hold water if not backed up by what we've seen in the story. 

 

Read the masked Empire towards the end. It is pretty clear Solas did not care for modern elves. Remember that ancient elves used slaves to fuel their power. He admits that he has used and lied to people. Abelas is one of the ancient elves and he doesn't see a modern elf as his kin.

 

They could be pulling these elves in, and using them for their own purpose. The Masked Empire doesn't paint a pretty picture for ancient elves.