83 réponses à ce sujet

[DanakV]

I don't think anyone can reasonably argue against their being more difficult and/or more time consuming than the other factions.  I personally am okay with some factions being more difficult than others for some variety, but I absolutely agree that they should be more rewarding for gold & experience as compensation.

 

I seem to be in the minority that I really like the saarebas enemy though; I think it is pretty neat to have what is essentially a mini-boss several times throughout a wave.  It really gives the Qunari a different feel.  Having multiple of them on you at once in NM seems a bit overkill so I wouldn't object to limiting them to one at a time if they keep their current strength.

 

Those barrier dispelling assassins though - ugh.

[Parachromis]

This is a statement about Perilous difficulty.

 

I don't really complain much, as I take a "change your playstyle" approach. However, the entirety of the player base needs to be taken into account. "Promotion Lords" can bow out now--go back to your HB games. I played 3 back to back games against the Qunari. I played with your typical puggers, all of which I have played with before, so I knew their skill level going in. They aren't terrible, but they aren't great either. But they like to play, so I'm down with that.

 

They did an admiral job getting to wave 4, where the Saarebas comes into play. But 3 times in a row I was left by myself. It was like hitting a brick wall for them. I like the Saarebas, I think he's really neat addition, but something needs to be done. I do recall hitting him for a 9k crit and it took off 25% of his barrier. W.T.F. Also, I think there's too many assassins. Given their ability to dispel your barrier, they are somewhat of a problem. I don't have an issue with what they do, I just have an issue with how many there are. Similar to bolters. I don't have a problem with them or what they do, but there are just too many. It seems that Bioware's answer to difficulty is by sheer numbers rather than strategy.

 

Only the elite complain that there's not a problem. Well, yeah, there is. Maybe the elite should not play perilous. Maybe they should stick to NM and HB. Perilous is a challenge for those with low promotes, under-geared, and who are relatively new to the game or are just casual players looking for a decent challenge--it's their Nightmare. But you should be able to get through it and not totally shut down by a single faction. For the record, the 4th game was against the venatori, and we did alright.

 

I don't think rewarding extra XP or Gold is the answer. Given the current limitations on things such as potions doesn't help less experienced players. If you want more XP and loot, then move up to a higher difficulty. To allow for unique challenges between factions, stop re-skinning mooks and create a more varied enemy. I think the darkspawn was a step in the right direction, as well as the Qunari, but both fall a little short of what we all want to see.

[sonofbarak]

This is a statement about Perilous difficulty.

 

I don't really complain much, as I take a "change your playstyle" approach. However, the entirety of the player base needs to be taken into account. "Promotion Lords" can bow out now--go back to your HB games. I played 3 back to back games against the Qunari. I played with your typical puggers, all of which I have played with before, so I knew their skill level going in. They aren't terrible, but they aren't great either. But they like to play, so I'm down with that.

 

They did an admiral job getting to wave 4, where the Saarebas comes into play. But 3 times in a row I was left by myself. It was like hitting a brick wall for them. I like the Saarebas, I think he's really neat addition, but something needs to be done. I do recall hitting him for a 9k crit and it took off 25% of his barrier. W.T.F. Also, I think there's too many assassins. Given their ability to dispel your barrier, they are somewhat of a problem. I don't have an issue with what they do, I just have an issue with how many there are. Similar to bolters. I don't have a problem with them or what they do, but there are just too many. It seems that Bioware's answer to difficulty is by sheer numbers rather than strategy.

 

Only the elite complain that there's not a problem. Well, yeah, there is. Maybe the elite should not play perilous. Maybe they should stick to NM and HB. Perilous is a challenge for those with low promotes, under-geared, and who are relatively new to the game or are just casual players looking for a decent challenge--it's their Nightmare. But you should be able to get through it and not totally shut down by a single faction. For the record, the 4th game was against the venatori, and we did alright.

 

I don't think rewarding extra XP or Gold is the answer. Given the current limitations on things such as potions doesn't help less experienced players. If you want more XP and loot, then move up to a higher difficulty. To allow for unique challenges between factions, stop re-skinning mooks and create a more varied enemy. I think the darkspawn was a step in the right direction, as well as the Qunari, but both fall a little short of what we all want to see.

 

 

 

I called B.S on this short essay

I remember playing perilous and faded in the first zone. You need to promote and play the way the game is design. If you keep failing go back to threating until you get stronger.
 

[Hrungr]

I called B.S on this short essay

I remember playing perilous and faded in the first zone. You need to promote and play the way the game is design. If you keep failing go back to threating until you get stronger.
 

 

The factions just need to be a more consistent level of threat across a particular difficulty level. Whether that means the outliers are brought down, the baseline brought up or they meet in the middle somewhere - some adjustment should made.

[MGW7]

The qunari are too much, they have the best diversity, their units work well and complement each other, and they have counterplay against different strategies, with ensuing player counterplay against them.

 

And they have twice as much health and resist more elements than the rest of the factions. Because new players can go back to dirt difficulty if they struggle so hard.

 

The darkspawn don't have that much health, but they are simple, and telegraph their attacks very clearly.

The Dwarves have almost that much health, but are slow and predictable.

 

The other factions simply can't compete at all. Their health could be tripled and they still wouldn't pose the same challenge that the qunari do, because they simply lack the abilities the qunari are saturated in.

[sonofbarak]

The factions just need to be a more consistent level of threat across a particular difficulty level. Whether that means the outliers are brought down, the baseline brought up or they meet in the middle somewhere - some adjustment should made.

 

How about leave it alone enjoy the challenge

Or

Perilous    Completion 3000 gold 1-14  level

Nightmare Completion 4000 gold 1-16 level

[sonofbarak]

The qunari are too much, they have the best diversity, their units work well and complement each other, and they have counterplay against different strategies, with ensuing player counterplay against them.

 

And they have twice as much health and resist more elements than the rest of the factions. Because new players can go back to dirt difficulty if they struggle so hard.

 

The darkspawn don't have that much health, but they are simple, and telegraph their attacks very clearly.

The Dwarves have almost that much health, but are slow and predictable.

 

The other factions simply can't compete at all. Their health could be tripled and they still wouldn't pose the same challenge that the qunari do, because they simply lack the abilities the qunari are saturated in.

 

Qunari Promotions lords of factions
 

[Hrungr]

How about leave it alone enjoy the challenge

 

We have distinct difficulty levels for a reason, there just needs to be better consistency within that level. If I'm joining a Perilous match, it shouldn't range from Easy-Peasy to Routinely-Slaughtered for the same group, in the same difficulty level.

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

I can understand how qunari faction can be rage inducing for the casuals, and I've seen puggers in perilous drop out faster than high school students taking calculus. They are difficult to deal if you do nothing but play mages because of their diverse elemental immunities/resistances but they are also have some of the lowest hp (besides saarebas), the qunari commander is a joke (if your a warrior) and I see it as a reward for teams who have survived through all zones.

I find darkspawn a lot more difficult to deal with because of how physically tough they are overall as a faction and their high hP/armor values and constant knockdowns compared to qunari. Now that they have brought back the bolters in nightmare, you have no choice but to slow down and use los and cover, whereas qunari saarebas can be taken out fast in zone 4, if everyone targets them first.

[coffbear7]

Just finished a night mare run with Development Ken against The Mighty Q while pugging. Yes, The Mighty Q are strong , but they are meant to be that way.
Seems to me newer players expectations are much different from the veterans of the game. Instant gratification with new weapons and armor has seemed to change the understanding of the need for promotion and lower level experience play quite a bit.
To echo what Son has said, in short you've got to start somewhere. Expecting to jump into more difficult level play with significantly less promotions than realistically required is not a healthy train of thought. Newer gear and newer armor does not change the fact that players have to grind out promotions in less difficult levels.
That's the way the game was designed.
One more thought, there was a time when even Perilous runs did not always equal an extraction either. Always remember the mantra, promote, promote, promote.

[MagicalMaster]

I called B.S on this short essay
I remember playing perilous and faded in the first zone. You need to promote and play the way the game is design. If you keep failing go back to threating until you get stronger.

I call B.S. on your comment. You don't need *any* promotions to do *Perilous.* What you need is reasonably good weapons, a higher level character, and improved armor.

You're also missing the fact that those people *can* do Perilous for *every* faction except one -- the Qunari (with Darkspawn being a problem as well but to a lesser degree). If your attitude was correct then those people would be wiping on all the factions.

Expecting to jump into more difficult level play with significantly less promotions than realistically required is not a healthy train of thought. Newer gear and newer armor does not change the fact that players have to grind out promotions in less difficult levels.
That's the way the game was designed.

Except we're not talking about Heartbreaker. We're not even talking about Nightmare. Promotions are not required for Perilous. People can do Red Templar, Venatori, and Demons just fine with 10/10/10 once they have good weapons, improved armor, and are higher level.

[Aetika]

Thankfully the final boss can go down really fast, which is blessing. Saarebas is insane IMHO...even though I kind of enjoy how you have to switch to different approach with him, but I think his leap is purely absurd with its radius, damage and everything. He can cause the wipe very fast and very easily.

 

Also, is it just me or do Qunari and Darkspawn assassins use different kind of stealth? Because with Venatori and Red Templars, you can spot assassins under cloak and track their movement if you are carefull, but with Qunari and Darkspawn I have troubles, it´s like they disappear completely when cloaked, just to reappear somewhere else when attacking.

[orange_apples]

Just finished a night mare run with Development Ken against The Mighty Q while pugging. Yes, The Mighty Q are strong , but they are meant to be that way.
Seems to me newer players expectations are much different from the veterans of the game. Instant gratification with new weapons and armor has seemed to change the understanding of the need for promotion and lower level experience play quite a bit.
To echo what Son has said, in short you've got to start somewhere. Expecting to jump into more difficult level play with significantly less promotions than realistically required is not a healthy train of thought. Newer gear and newer armor does not change the fact that players have to grind out promotions in less difficult levels.
That's the way the game was designed.
One more thought, there was a time when even Perilous runs did not always equal an extraction either. Always remember the mantra, promote, promote, promote.

 

Yeah, they got to start, in Routine and Qunari regularly wreak routine players. Absolutley nothing to do with going up to even Threatening.

 

And do you remember what it is like to promote when all you can play is routine? You should try it, it's terrible.

 

 

Also, is it just me or do Qunari and Darkspawn assassins use different kind of stealth? Because with Venatori and Red Templars, you can spot assassins under cloak and track their movement if you are carefull, but with Qunari and Darkspawn I have troubles, it´s like they disappear completely when cloaked, just to reappear somewhere else when attacking.

 

I saw it happen first hand.

 

There was a zone 4 assassination mission and the target was a Darkspawn Shriek. It was the room that starts with a walkway to the right that overlooks a later part of the level. When I have a ranged character I like to stand on the walkway and rain down attacks on the enemies as the melee enemies can't hit me. Or so I thought. The Shriek was down towards the end of the level so I attacked thinking I can weaken it before it gets to my allies. Well, he stealthed and was right behind me. Almost took me out too. Didn't move in stealth, straight up teleported behind me as there was no way he could have gotten up to me so quickly. After he caught me by surprise from the rear I repeatedly pounded him with Stone Fist so hard I haven't been asked to assassinate another Shriek since.

[Parachromis]

More Qunari issues...

 

I was playing threatning...threatning...with a lvl 7 alchemist. Other teammates are 2 keepers and 1 elementalist. I just mopped up the last enemy on wave 2, got hit twice by a UFO, took half a bar of guard and 90% of my health. Neat.

 

Wave 3, came around the corner to catch up to my team, got hit once by a UFO and died. I had full health and half guard? It's threatning after all. There was nothing close that would engage me that quickly.

 

Wave 5 after finishing off some mooks, Q-Boss teleports behind me. I turn towards him, he hits me with something, and I gain half a bar of guard. 

 

I am a Qunari racist right now. Will no longer play until they are fixed. 

[Gilli]

I went to Threatening/FC/Frost with my Lvl 19 Alchemist (only needed a little more EXP for Lvl 20) run into Qunari...

 

Didn't even survive Zone 1.

[Scitenik]

I don't mind the extra challenge so much on my tougher characters, but it shouldn't be a requirement to have a tough character to fight them.

 

I'm a relative newcomer to multiplayer, so I've been mostly playing routine and threatening. Last night I unlocked a new character and ran a Proving Grounds to try it out, only to face qunari. I'm not used to nearly dying in the tutorial zone.

[scene_cachet]

I am just against anything that is making it more difficult to farm gold. 

 

Time to reward ratio seriously needs to be looked at if you can't choose faction and put some more friggen gold in the dragon map if ain't going to be dropping 100% uniques.

 

It's completely backwards thinking that you spend 25 mats, fight so many more enemies and only come out of it with half the gold and less loot than you would running a standard map that takes 1/4 of the time. 

[Hrungr]

And I still have yet to join a Pug that has been able to beat the Qunari FC on Perilous...

Even after you kill a Sera, there's something lingering around them, invisible, that just... sucks away your health.

[sonofbarak]

I call B.S. on your comment. You don't need *any* promotions to do *Perilous.* What you need is reasonably good weapons, a higher level character, and improved armor.

You're also missing the fact that those people *can* do Perilous for *every* faction except one -- the Qunari (with Darkspawn being a problem as well but to a lesser degree). If your attitude was correct then those people would be wiping on all the factions.


Except we're not talking about Heartbreaker. We're not even talking about Nightmare. Promotions are not required for Perilous. People can do Red Templar, Venatori, and Demons just fine with 10/10/10 once they have good weapons, improved armor, and are higher level.

 

Promotions are not required for Perilous  Keep talking, someday you might say something intelligent

But here you are complaining about an faction that to hard

Good weapon+Good armor+ a lot of promotions=You can beat Qunari

 

 

[Aetika]

More Qunari issues...

 

I was playing threatning...threatning...with a lvl 7 alchemist. Other teammates are 2 keepers and 1 elementalist. I just mopped up the last enemy on wave 2, got hit twice by a UFO, took half a bar of guard and 90% of my health. Neat.

 

Wave 3, came around the corner to catch up to my team, got hit once by a UFO and died. I had full health and half guard? It's threatning after all. There was nothing close that would engage me that quickly.

 

Wave 5 after finishing off some mooks, Q-Boss teleports behind me. I turn towards him, he hits me with something, and I gain half a bar of guard. 

 

I am a Qunari racist right now. Will no longer play until they are fixed. 

 

Yeah, happened to me as well. Went down twice in row just after we cleared enemies. Nothing was attacking me and I didn´t see any new enemy around. Just from full health right to bleeding. Haven´t figured out what it was.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Working as intended. Anything short of a group of 4 Katari and/or Saarebas will struggle against this master race.

[MagicalMaster]

Promotions are not required for Perilous

Yes. I started playing about two months ago and was comfortably doing Perilous on several characters with maybe 6-7 promotes total, possibly less.

But here you are complaining about an faction that to hard

No. I'm complaining about a faction that is too hard *compared to the other factions on the same difficulty.* If they want to make all factions as hard on Perilous as the Qunari currently are, fine. But right now Threatening Qunari feel like Perilous and Perilous Qunari feel like Nightmare. That's the problem.

Good weapon+Good armor+ a lot of promotions=You can beat Qunari

I've beaten Qunari on every difficulty up to and including Nightmare. Try again.

[Dekibra]

Yeah, happened to me as well. Went down twice in row just after we cleared enemies. Nothing was attacking me and I didn´t see any new enemy around. Just from full health right to bleeding. Haven´t figured out what it was.

 

yeah... that elusive massive DOT spirit damage AFTER the Qunari are cleared

[coffbear7]

MagicalMaster

 

 Thanks for your reply and insight. I used play in NM as a reference for where I am currently in my progression to promote.

I did mention Perilous as well. I can remember that a lot of commotion was made about the Demon Commander being to hard. It got nerfed. Then the complaining about that started. The Yo Yo effect gets kinda old.

  This would be before your time based on your post. He was a 1 in 3 draw. Now we have a 1 in 5 draw. 6 if you care to add Druffy. I just remember not wanting to draw certain factions back when and realizing that wiping was a posibilty. In Threatening or Perilous. It sucked sure but the xp still went into the promotion pool. Characters got stronger and the enemies started to fall faster and more often.

[Beta Commando]

I agree, but I have to plea not to nerf but increase rewards. Let there be factions that challenge more, but that also reward more so that no matter who you are, there is always that one even bigger challenge but it would also be compensated in some way.