21 réponses à ce sujet

[Prince Rhaegar]

I've got a couple of questions about the Rift Mage spec as of 1.10:

 

1)  Has anyone confirmed that the shock-cancels-weakness bug is still in effect?  

 

2)  If that is the case, how do any of you who (like me) regularly have 2 mages in your party handle that?  What I'm basically asking is:  do you have your Mage Inquisitor and the 2nd mage (one of whom will be a RM) avoid using all lightning spells, or do you micromanage and use some lightning spells on select weakened targets to create the Sleep effect, sacrificing the mana gain from the RM hitting those targets?

 

3)  Was Stonefist fixed so that it does in fact act as an impact detonator (or any kind of detonator at all for that matter)?

[Bigdawg13]

1) weakness / bug still exists

2) either embrace it or avoid ( see note )

3) stonefist does work now as impact detonator ( extra damage etc)

Note : avoidance means no lightning spells except energy barrage. Avoid lightning staves too. Embrace it means to use bug to your benefit. When you try to apply weakness to shocked mob it will fall asleep setting up more cross-class combos at the cost of losing weakness debuff (i.e. Normal mana regen, etc)

[Rascoth]

3) Just checked. It seems to work (checked on frozen targer -> caused SHATTER).

[devSin]

Shocked + weakness (in that order) causes sleep. It's not a bug (and weakness + shocked doesn't do anything special).

You should be able to detonate sleep (with dispel or spell purge) and then reapply weakness.

My suggestion would be to take Cassandra. Her passive that causes normal hits to cause weakness, plus normal rift mage spells and spell purge, lets you shred enemies when you exploit the shocked status.

[Bigdawg13]

I disagree strongly. Shocked removing weakness is unequivocally a bug and not intended. Using it to cause sleep is A) an exploit and B ) causes mana problems in my experience. I have no doubt there is disagreement on this.

What happens when you shock something immune to sleep? I'll tell you. Your Rift Mage's mana regen is toast as is all your weakness-related passives. That's indicative of an unintended bug in the code. Or at minimum indicative of poor foresight on the part of the devs both in communicating game mechanics and class specialization.

[devSin]

I've never seen shocked do anything to weakness (the few times I've checked, the enemies have both states in the tactical view overlay).

Putting weakness onto shocked does remove both states, and it applies sleep (it's like a mini detonation). But once sleep is done (or detonated), I've always been able to reapply weakness and/or shocked.

You do lose the ability to regain mana in between, but the thousands of damage you can cause with a sleep detonation always seems worth it to me. (Certainly, it will never be as efficient in terms of mana generation as something that lets you keep the weakness state up constantly, but it's just a trade-off, like everything else.)
 

What happens when you shock something immune to sleep? I'll tell you. Your Rift Mage's mana regen is toast as is all your weakness-related passives. That's indicative of an unintended bug in the code.

That's a specific-enough issue to not totally invalidate the synergy of rift mage and lightning spells.

It sucks if it breaks in that way, sure, but it's something you should be able to avoid in practice (and how many encounters are comprised entirely of sleep-immune mobs?). If you intend to play solo, I agree it's a much larger issue, but I've never felt hindered by using spells that can cause shocked with a rift mage when playing with a full party.

[Bigdawg13]

I've never seen shocked do anything to weakness (the few times I've checked, the enemies have both states in the tactical view overlay).

Putting weakness onto shocked does remove both states, and it applies sleep (it's like a mini detonation). But once sleep is done (or detonated), I've always been able to reapply weakness and/or shocked.

You do lose the ability to regain mana in between, but the thousands of damage you can cause with a sleep detonation always seems worth it to me. (Certainly, it will never be as efficient in terms of mana generation as something that lets you keep the weakness state up constantly, but it's just a trade-off, like everything else.)

That's a specific-enough issue to not totally invalidate the synergy of rift mage and lightning spells.

It sucks if it breaks in that way, sure, but it's something you should be able to avoid in practice (and how many encounters are comprised entirely of sleep-immune mobs?). If you intend to play solo, I agree it's a much larger issue, but I've never felt hindered by using spells that can cause shocked with a rift mage when playing with a full party.

How many mobs are immune to sleep? Only the tough ones that matter: dragons, Giants, etc

None of this changes what I said. There are two camps. Those that avoid the bug/exploit and those that don't. I always run into mana issues when including lightning spells. Always.

[devSin]

None of this changes what I said. There are two camps. Those that avoid the bug/exploit and those that don't. I always run into mana issues when including lightning spells. Always.

I can't argue that. It's certainly something that could affect someone more or less depending on their gameplay style.

But I will say I heavily doubt the sleep behavior itself is a bug. Something like that wouldn't stick around (if it weren't intended), because of multiplayer.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

With the introduction of toggles, you have to use all 3 of Rift Mage's spells to get the most out of the specialization.

 

I use Veilstrike as a cooldown reducer or as a weakness inducer.

 

I use Stonefist as a guard damager or a weakness inducer.

 

I use Pull of the Abyss strictly as an area of affect damage dealer.

 

So when there are no enemies with guard, I use Veilstrike for spell cooldown, Stonefist for weakness and Pull of the Abyss for damage. When there are enemies with guard, I use Veilstrike for weakness, Stonefist for guard and Pull of the Abyss for damage.

 

Now for spells, I will go over each school.

 

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For Inferno, all spells except Flashfire is fair game. Whichever one you want to use is up to you.

 

Immolate is the most cost effective spell. The alternate upgrade for Immolate makes it practically spammable.

 

Fire Mine is the most damaging spell. Flaming Array upgrade for Fire Mine turns it into a powerful defensive spell for a Rift Mage.

 

Wall of Fire is the spell with the most utility. I am not sure what the alternate upgrade for Wall of Fire does though.

 

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For Winter, I would suggest picking between Fade Step, Winter's Grasp and Blizzard. Fade Step gives you mobility or free mana. Winter's Grasp gives you crowd control or high single target damage. Blizzard gives you area of effect, crowd control and damage over time. If you wish to pick Blizzard, I recommend sticking with the Ice Storm upgrade over Winter Winds.

 

Blizzard with Winter Winds - 75% weapon damage per second, 10 seconds duration, 8 meters area of effect, 8 seconds chill, 24 seconds cooldown, 40 mana cost. Blizzard with Ice Storm - 150% weapon damage per second, 8 meters area of effect, 8 seconds chill, 4 seconds freeze, 24 seconds cooldown, 5 mana per second cost.

 

This means that Blizzard with Winter Winds does a maximum of 750% weapon damage for 10 seconds with a mana cost of 40. For 40 mana, Blizzard with Ice Storm will do 1200% weapon damage for 8 seconds. For 10 seconds, Blizzard with Ice Storm will do 1500% weapon damage with a mana cost of 50. To achieve 750% weapon damage, Blizzard with Ice Storm only needs to last for 5 seconds and cost a mere 25 mana.

 

The reality is that Blizzard with Ice Storm is still the way to go if you wish to use Blizzard. In my opinion, Winter Winds is the Blizzard upgrade for AI because it makes Blizzard into a weaker fire & forget spell.

 

Many would advise against using Blizzard but I find that if you play it right, Rift Mage is the only mage specialization that can sustain Blizzard long enough to do any real damage.

 

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For Storm, all the spell in this tree are fair game. You have to be careful about your upgrade choices though. Like other posters warned, many Storm spells can cause the Sleep - Weakness bug. Whether you want to exploit that or avoid that is up to you.

 

Chain Lightning is a good early game spell and you can go with any of the upgrades. Energy Barrage is a staple in almost all builds but do not upgrade it because the upgrade is insignificant.

 

Lightning Bolt is the only Storm spell other than Energy Barrage that does not trigger the Sleep - Weakness bug and is a powerful spell if you can get enemies clustered, which you can do with Pull of the Abyss. Just stick with the upgrade that grants more damage.

 

Static Cage is one of the best spells in the game but it does cost quite a lot of ability points to fully unlock its potential and don't pick the alternate upgrade that does damage outside the cage because its crap.

 

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For Spirit, all spells are a go except for Mind Blast. Mind Blast is a close range, close quarters spell and the Rift Mage is a distance caster.

 

Dispel is a must have on at least one of the mages if you have the Trials toggled on. Both upgrades are good.

 

Barrier is, like Energy Barrage, a staple. I would encourage you to pick the upgrade that makes the Barrier stays on longer before decaying instead of cooldown reduction.

 

Revival is as its name implies. You should have it one a support mage and note that the alternate upgrade for Revival turns it into something like Simulacrum.

 

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For Focus, do not use Firestorm because it is bugged. Stick with Rift abilities that your Inquisitor gets. Both the Mark and Aegis are good. The Mark is offensive and Aegis is mainly for defense.

 

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Hope you have a good time with Rift Mage !

[PapaCharlie9]

Note : avoidance means no lightning spells except energy barrage. Avoid lightning staves too. Embrace it means to use bug to your benefit. When you try to apply weakness to shocked mob it will fall asleep setting up more cross-class combos at the cost of losing weakness debuff (i.e. Normal mana regen, etc)

^This. The only good staves I've found in my current no-crafting run are all electric, so I don't have much choice.

 

Without intending to set this combo up, I got in a situation where auto-attacks vs Veilstrike put four targets to sleep, and then Cole on AI did something that did a bunch of Hidden Blades (might have been a Leaping Shot with HB proc, or might have just been Hidden Blades/No Witnesses, he had both at the time) and omg I've never seen so many numbers on screen at the same time. When the smoke cleared there was nothing left of the mob. I wish I had video cap on, I always miss the good stuff.

[PawsPause]

Lightning Bolt is the only Storm spell other than Energy Barrage that does not trigger the Sleep - Weakness bug and is a powerful spell if you can get enemies clustered, which you can do with Pull of the Abyss. Just stick with the upgrade that grants more damage.

 

 

does the detonation of lighting bolt cause an aoe shocked status?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

does the detonation of lighting bolt cause an aoe shocked status?

 

I don't think so but that no longer matters. See my post below for why that is.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Introduction:

 

Allright folks, this is it. I have made the Rift Mage build that I personally think is perfect. By perfect I mean it is very well rounded and covers the basis for almost any situation. With this build, annoying bugs like Shock + Weakness is rendered obsolete.

 

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Before Skyhold:

 

http://www.rpg-gamin...113233323411501

 

This build uses 11 ability points and it is the one that I use before going to Skyhold. Here is the setup -

 

1) Dispel.

2) Energy Barrage.

3) Immolate.

4) Fade Step.

5) Chain Lightning.

6) Barrier.

 

Why Dispel instead of Guardian Spirit ? Well, if you play on Nightmare with Trials toggled on, which I do, that means you will encounter really pesky spellbinders who have almost permanent Barrier up.  You will want someone on your team who can deal with that.

 

Fade Step here is upgraded to do 300% Ice Damage. If you time it right,you can affect multiple enemies with it. Immolate and Chain Lightning are good early level spells.

 

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Mid Game:

 

http://www.rpg-gamin...32343151165a701

 

This build uses 20 skill points and it is one you can achieve by mid game if you are a completionist freak like I am. Levelling in Inquisition is not difficult. Here is the setup -

 

1) Fade Step.

2) Energy Barrage.

3) Stonefist.

4) Immolate.

5) Winter's Grasp.

6) Chain Lightning.

7) Pull of the Abyss.

8) Barrier.

 

Fade Step here is upgraded to return mana instead of dealing damage. Stonefist is upgraded to deal area of effect Weakness. Immolate is upgraded so that it can be spammed. Pull of the Abyss is upgraded to deal area of effect Spirit damage. Upgrades for Chain Lightning and Winter's Grasp is up to you, either one works. However, I personally stick with area of effect damage for Winter's Grasp and the upgrade that increases the radius and hits of Chain Lightning.

 

With this setup, mana ceases to be an issue due to Fade Step. You can use spells or enchantments or staves that cause Shock just fine with this build. The Shock + Weakness bug has now been made irrelevant, thanks to the mana leech upgrade for Fade Step.

 

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Level Cap:

 

http://www.rpg-gamin...32843d51b65a701

 

This build is for when you have obtained all possible skill points in the game. Non-Humans can have a maximum of 31 skill points while Humans can have a maximum of 32 skill points. Level cap itself is 27, which means 28 skill points. If you have the Descent DLC and the Jaws of Hakkon DLC, you can reach Level 27 easily.

 

The remaining 3 skill points are from Celene & Briala War Table mission if you chose to reunite them, Inquisition perks and Crestwood spirit. I personally find that I can reach Level 27 by doing both Descent and Jaws of Hakkon before Arbor Wilds. If you are worried about the lack of challenge at high levels, toggle the Trials on and you should do fine.

 

Here is the setup -

 

1) Fade Step.

2) Energy Barrage.

3) Stonefist.

4) Fire Mine.

5) Blizzard.

6) Static Cage.

7) Pull of the Abyss.

8) Barrier.

 

Fade Step here is upgraded for mana leech. Fire Mine is upgraded to do burning damage. Blizzard is upgraded with  Ice Storm instead of Ice Winds. If you want to know why, check one of my previous posts. Static Cage is upgraded with Lightning Cage. Pull of the Abyss is upgraded to deal area of effect Spirit damage. Stonefist is upgraded to cause area of effect Weakness. Barrier is upgraded to Energetic Defense instead of Elegant Defense.

 

With this build, once again, the Shock + Weakness bug ceases to be an issue because mana is no longer a concern. What's more, you can now sustain Blizzard for a long time period because you can have both Weakness from Stonefist and mana leech from Fade Step. Blizzard also works exceptionally well with Static Cage and it gives off a nice sound effect when it combines with Blizzard. Fire Mine goes well with Pull of the Abyss or with Static Cage.

 

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Closing Thoughts:

 

I believe that this build covers almost all the basis with a few exceptions. For one, you will need to use spell cooldown and critical hits based enchantment to deal with spell cooldowns. Ultimately, substituting Veilstrike for Fade Step is a question of picking mana over spell cooldowns. You cannot enchant your equipment extra mana or mana regeneration. Yes there is the Sigil of the Bear and Lyrium potions but ultimately, I think that mana is more important to a mage than spell cooldown.

 

What's more, you also cannot deal with Guard anymore since I do not chose to upgrade Stonefist to deal extra Guard damage but this is a party based game and if you are playing on Nightmare, chances are you will have a Warrior or a Knight Enchanter along with your Rift Mage Inquisitor.

 

Have fun and cheerio.

[Bigdawg13]

does the detonation of lighting bolt cause an aoe shocked status?

It does cause shock.

[Prince Rhaegar]

Thanks for the replies and advice!  I'm going to do few trial combat runs with my RM and a lightning based mage to see how I like the way they interact.  I know my RM won't pull as much mana unless I'm very careful and micromanage the storm mage to attack different targets.

 

I will say that I've played several KE's before patch 10, and IMHO a Rift Mage completely outclasses the KE in terms of damage potential.  Sure, it's hard to get through a KE's barrier to actually do damage, but as long as I play my Rift Mage intelligently (staying mobile and using Fade Step when necessary), the KE just can't dish out that much damage, especially at range.

[Bigdawg13]

Introduction:

Allright folks, this is it. I have made the Rift Mage build that I personally think is perfect. By perfect I mean it is very well rounded and covers the basis for almost any situation. With this build, annoying bugs like Shock + Weakness is rendered obsolete.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before Skyhold:

http://www.rpg-gamin...113233323411501

This build uses 11 ability points and it is the one that I use before going to Skyhold. Here is the setup -

1) Dispel.
2) Energy Barrage.
3) Immolate.
4) Fade Step.
5) Chain Lightning.
6) Barrier.

Why Dispel instead of Guardian Spirit ? Well, if you play on Nightmare with Trials toggled on, which I do, that means you will encounter really pesky spellbinders who have almost permanent Barrier up. You will want someone on your team who can deal with that.

Fade Step here is upgraded to do 300% Ice Damage. If you time it right,you can affect multiple enemies with it. Immolate and Chain Lightning are good early level spells.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mid Game:

http://www.rpg-gamin...32343151165a701

This build uses 20 skill points and it is one you can achieve by mid game if you are a completionist freak like I am. Levelling in Inquisition is not difficult. Here is the setup -

1) Fade Step.
2) Energy Barrage.
3) Stonefist.
4) Immolate.
5) Winter's Grasp.
6) Chain Lightning.
7) Pull of the Abyss.
8) Barrier.

Fade Step here is upgraded to return mana instead of dealing damage. Stonefist is upgraded to deal area of effect Weakness. Immolate is upgraded so that it can be spammed. Pull of the Abyss is upgraded to deal area of effect Spirit damage. Upgrades for Chain Lightning and Winter's Grasp is up to you, either one works. However, I personally stick with area of effect damage for Winter's Grasp and the upgrade that increases the radius and hits of Chain Lightning.

With this setup, mana ceases to be an issue due to Fade Step. You can use spells or enchantments or staves that cause Shock just fine with this build. The Shock + Weakness bug has now been made irrelevant, thanks to the mana leech upgrade for Fade Step.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Level Cap:

http://www.rpg-gamin...32843d51b65a701

This build is for when you have obtained all possible skill points in the game. Non-Humans can have a maximum of 31 skill points while Humans can have a maximum of 32 skill points. Level cap itself is 27, which means 28 skill points. If you have the Descent DLC and the Jaws of Hakkon DLC, you can reach Level 27 easily.

The remaining 3 skill points are from Celene & Briala War Table mission if you chose to reunite them, Inquisition perks and Crestwood spirit. I personally find that I can reach Level 27 by doing both Descent and Jaws of Hakkon before Arbor Wilds. If you are worried about the lack of challenge at high levels, toggle the Trials on and you should do fine.

Here is the setup -

1) Fade Step.
2) Energy Barrage.
3) Stonefist.
4) Fire Mine.
5) Blizzard.
6) Static Cage.
7) Pull of the Abyss.
8) Barrier.

Fade Step here is upgraded for mana leech. Fire Mine is upgraded to do burning damage. Blizzard is upgraded with Ice Storm instead of Ice Winds. If you want to know why, check one of my previous posts. Static Cage is upgraded with Lightning Cage. Pull of the Abyss is upgraded to deal area of effect Spirit damage. Stonefist is upgraded to cause area of effect Weakness. Barrier is upgraded to Energetic Defense instead of Elegant Defense.

With this build, once again, the Shock + Weakness bug ceases to be an issue because mana is no longer a concern. What's more, you can now sustain Blizzard for a long time period because you can have both Weakness from Stonefist and mana leech from Fade Step. Blizzard also works exceptionally well with Static Cage and it gives off a nice sound effect when it combines with Blizzard. Fire Mine goes well with Pull of the Abyss or with Static Cage.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Closing Thoughts:

I believe that this build covers almost all the basis with a few exceptions. For one, you will need to use spell cooldown and critical hits based enchantment to deal with spell cooldowns. Ultimately, substituting Veilstrike for Fade Step is a question of picking mana over spell cooldowns. You cannot enchant your equipment extra mana or mana regeneration. Yes there is the Sigil of the Bear and Lyrium potions but ultimately, I think that mana is more important to a mage than spell cooldown.

What's more, you also cannot deal with Guard anymore since I do not chose to upgrade Stonefist to deal extra Guard damage but this is a party based game and if you are playing on Nightmare, chances are you will have a Warrior or a Knight Enchanter along with your Rift Mage Inquisitor.

Have fun and cheerio.

Any thoughts on dropping Energy Barrage? Seems bugged and only doing ~50% damage.

[Atreyu84]

just curious, why does everybody call veilstrikes new toggle a cooldown reducer??? i was under the impression the way it worked was only on itself....i mean the way i read it, makes it centered on yourself, mob runs up to you, you use veilstrike, everything around you gets knocked down, another mob runs up and hits you, it cuts VEILSTRIKES cooldown in half, but ONLY veilstrikes.

 

am i wrong? 

[Bigdawg13]

just curious, why does everybody call veilstrikes new toggle a cooldown reducer??? i was under the impression the way it worked was only on itself....i mean the way i read it, makes it centered on yourself, mob runs up to you, you use veilstrike, everything around you gets knocked down, another mob runs up and hits you, it cuts VEILSTRIKES cooldown in half, but ONLY veilstrikes.

am i wrong?

That's how I interrupted it too. Curious to see what others say.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Any thoughts on dropping Energy Barrage? Seems bugged and only doing ~50% damage.

 

If Barrage is bugged, then replace it something like Chain Lightning or Dispel or Immolate. I would personally choose Dispel because I have the Trials toggled on. I also found that Energy Barrage works fine if you do not upgrade it. Just stick with the base skill.

[Bigdawg13]

If Barrage is bugged, then replace it something like Chain Lightning or Dispel or Immolate. I would personally choose Dispel because I have the Trials toggled on. I also found that Energy Barrage works fine if you do not upgrade it. Just stick with the base skill.

 

 

I'm not convinced it is bugged, but many on the forums are lamenting it's value.  If anything I think the last 3-4 bolts seem to take a long time to find their target.  I believe Energy Barrage's value heavily relies on having 'on hit' masterworks.  Without those, I wouldn't use it I think.

 

Also, I really don't like giving up weakness.  I recognize that Fade Step's new toggle upgrade gives you back the mana, but weakness does far more than that. 

 

Weakness will

A )  return mana 10% of damage dealt

B ) increase duration bonus of status effects on enemies (unclear if this is just your status effects or those of entire party)

C )  decrease target damage dealt by 30%  (love it when I play with trials on)

D )  increase damage you do by 15% on EVERYTHING!!!!

 

The only enemy that is immune to weakness is Giant.  Interestingly enough, giant is the one creature with a low resistance to electricity (however, I should note they are not highly resistant to any element).

[PapaCharlie9]

Level cap

1) Fade Step.
2) Energy Barrage.
3) Stonefist.
4) Fire Mine.
5) Blizzard.
6) Static Cage.
7) Pull of the Abyss.
8) Barrier.

For comparison, here is my level capped, post-JoH (so, Aegis) Rift Mage that I'm currently running through Descent.

1) Fade Step/Frost Step
2) Veilstrike/Punching Down
3) Stonefist/Shatterstone
4) Immolate/Wildfire
5) Ice Mine/Chilling Array
6) Winter's Grasp/Winter's Ruin
7) Pull of the Abyss/Devouring Veil
8) Barrier/Elegent Defense

Add to that I'm wielding a cold staff and it should be clear I optimized for Winter's Ruin and Shatter combo. Immolate is there for cold resistant enemies, though arguably I don't need it for having Stonefist, but I wanted the Inferno passives anyway, so might as well use it. I'll swap it out for Aegis if ranged attacks get hairy.

I may switch Pull of the Abyss back to Shaken Veil. Loving the huge mobs in Descent. Really makes PotA shine.

Some important passives (I won't list all of them): Restorative Veil, Mana Surge, Flashpoint, Cleanburn, and of course all of RM.

[Bigdawg13]

I love Winter's Grasp so much I wish I could have both versions in my limited 8 slot skill bar.

 

One of the things I've noticed about the Rift Mage, at least compared to some of the other specializations, is that I find myself switching toggles before a fight to optimize damage.  The alternate toggles really play well.  Winter's Ruin vs Winter's Chill, or stonefist to handle guard or AoE.  I think devouring veil is a great AoE spirit damage spell, but it's really fast.  The normal version lasts longer and that means sustained CC.  A great trade-off IMHO.  Really a lot of fun to take on these skills with upgrades that both are great.