22 réponses à ce sujet

[Star Reborn]

Was it the Elvhan from the Trespasser, or was it the Ancient Dragons from the Silent Grove?

[Kantr]

The elves.

[myahele]

Prior to the time of the Evanuris, I am thinking Dragons ruled the skies, while the Titans ruled the Earth and everything was pretty much ok up until the Evanuris came to be.

 

Dragons are the "blood of the world" as stated by Yavana. And we're recently finding out about Titans and how they're also "Pillars of the World"

 

In either case, their extinction spells death to the world and it's the fault of the Elves

[Aulis Vaara]

The Dragon form was reserved for the Evanuris who ruled the world. I.e. they were both one and the same.

[Star Reborn]

What of the old gods 

[Drasanil]

Prior to the time of the Evanuris, I am thinking Dragons ruled the skies, while the Titans ruled the Earth and everything was pretty much ok up until the Evanuris came to be.

 

Dragons are the "blood of the world" as stated by Yavana. And we're recently finding out about Titans and how they're also "Pillars of the World"

 

In either case, their extinction spells death to the world and it's the fault of the Elves

 

Pretty sure its not the elves that hunted the dragons to near extinction. They kind of haven't been in a position to do so for a long time. *coughNevarranscough*

[TraiHarder]

Prior to the time of the Evanuris, I am thinking Dragons ruled the skies, while the Titans ruled the Earth and everything was pretty much ok up until the Evanuris came to be.

Dragons are the "blood of the world" as stated by Yavana. And we're recently finding out about Titans and how they're also "Pillars of the World"

In either case, their extinction spells death to the world and it's the fault of the Elves

Well the high dragons should probably be extinct maybe. Or there may be others all around the world or in different regions we don't know.

But at least the Great Dragons are back and surely those were the first Dragons and most powerful for sure.

[TraiHarder]

What of the old gods

We don't know much about who the Old God's even are .

Buy highly doubt they came before the Dragons

[diaspora2k5]

Evanuris.

 

IMO the old Gods are high dragons possessed by powerful spirits. Hakkon was possessed by a spirit of war/winter. Dumat could have been possessed by a spirit of Silence, Urthemiel by a spirit of beauty.

[NaclynE]

 

 

Who ruled thedas before the Veil was created?

 

Rephrase the question please.

 

Is this pertaining to TRESPASSER? For all I know the Veil was created some time after DA 2. Are you talking who ruled Thedas on a whole or are you talking about specific parts of Thedas like Tevintir, Orlias, and Ferelden? I can at least answer that question.

[rapscallioness]

Well...you could say it was the Evanuris, but even they had a war to fight. A great war apparently. This is what led them to becoming deified after a long while. They were really just powerful mages.

 

What, or who, they were at war with I'm not sure. The Titans? Or were the Titans the spoils of war?

 

I'm also not sure of their relation to the elves. There were elves seemingly before the Evanuris. The elves lived like beasts of the field, naked and cold and all that. Then the Evanuris show up and teach them how to hunt and about fire, etc. The elves of Thedas seem to have been their own people before the Evanuris show up and influence them, and eventually enslave them. I think. even though Abelas has the slave markings and tied to Mythal, but he's considered an Ancient Elf, and he does not consider the modern elves as The People. Maybe it is only a matter of time difference, or maybe there is further distinction going on there that we are not aware of.

 

And which came first, the dragons or the Evanuris? Gaider has said that the dragons are indeed animals. Just animals. Great, beautiful beasts, but beasts. So, did the Evanuris simply like their form and adopt it for their own expressions? Did some become the Scaled Ones by hunting them and drinking their blood-maybe to supplement their own magic?

 

It gets murky, but my point is that it seems it was indeed the Evanuris that were the Trespassers. Everything was ticking along as things do, the dragons flying in the skies; the titans and dwarves doing their pillar of the earth thing and the elves living on the surface-they weren't in the Fade,or teleporting back and forth or in floating cities, then.

 

All would have evolved in their own way over a great breadth of time. But then the Evanuris enter the picture...and start touching All the Things.

 

So, who was ruling before the Veil? The Evanuris...and something else I think that they fought and won against. But before the Evanuris, were there "rulers" in that sense?

[DarkTl]

 For all I know the Veil was created some time after DA 2.

...What? You think the Veil was created after DA2?

[Aulis Vaara]

Evanuris.
 
IMO the old Gods are high dragons possessed by powerful spirits. Hakkon was possessed by a spirit of war/winter. Dumat could have been possessed by a spirit of Silence, Urthemiel by a spirit of beauty.

I'm still scratching my head at why a dragon would ever agree to be possessed. Furthermore, if it was just a possessed Dragon, then corrupting the Old Gods would most likely fail. Dragons are already more resistant than others and being possessed by a spirit makes you even more resistant and possibly immune (though it does not automatically cure you). Evidence for this is that Fiona was cured of the taint using a spirit and that creating runes that damage blighted creatures requires the remains of possessed corpses.

So something doesn't add up there. Furthermore, if the Old Gods were just dragons (possessed or not), there's no good reason why they should be able to command the horde. Corypheus dragon can't command the horde, so why would a possessed dragon be able to? On top of that, Spirits haven't a clue what the Blight is either.

[TraiHarder]

I'm still scratching my head at why a dragon would ever agree to be possessed. Furthermore, if it was just a possessed Dragon, then corrupting the Old Gods would most likely fail. Dragons are already more resistant than others and being possessed by a spirit makes you even more resistant and possibly immune (though it does not automatically cure you). Evidence for this is that Fiona was cured of the taint using a spirit and that creating runes that damage blighted creatures requires the remains of possessed corpses.

So something doesn't add up there. Furthermore, if the Old Gods were just dragons (possessed or not), there's no good reason why they should be able to command the horde. Corypheus dragon can't command the horde, so why would a possessed dragon be able to? On top of that, Spirits haven't a clue what the Blight is either.

They can control it Because they don't become arch demons until they are corrupted by the blight. So naturally with them being at the top of the food chain yada yada yada

[rapscallioness]

I'm still scratching my head at why a dragon would ever agree to be possessed. Furthermore, if it was just a possessed Dragon, then corrupting the Old Gods would most likely fail. Dragons are already more resistant than others and being possessed by a spirit makes you even more resistant and possibly immune (though it does not automatically cure you). Evidence for this is that Fiona was cured of the taint using a spirit and that creating runes that damage blighted creatures requires the remains of possessed corpses.

So something doesn't add up there. Furthermore, if the Old Gods were just dragons (possessed or not), there's no good reason why they should be able to command the horde. Corypheus dragon can't command the horde, so why would a possessed dragon be able to? On top of that, Spirits haven't a clue what the Blight is either.

 

Maybe it depends on the type of spirit being used as far as curing/immnunity to the taint? Idk about the runes.

 

Dragons commanding a horde, again Cory's dragon was a part of him. There may be the need for a more powerful spirit--though tainted. And that's the thing, I don't think the Spirits need to know much about the Blight in order to be infected by it.

 

From all accounts, the process of when the dragon is turned to archdemon is horrific and painful for them. They do not want this. They were "slumbering"-the dragon and spirit-but the whole time it seems they are sending out this signal, this call, or song. The darkspawn pick up on it and come swarm them.

 

Idk what exactly the darkspawn do to these dragon/spirits when they find them. I mean, is there not some form of blood involved in all this and getting the taint? So, do they gnaw on the dragons, or ..idk.

 

It's a horrifying experience for the dragon. It drives them crazy. In many ways the dragons, even with spirits bound to them, are as much a victim of the Blight as the rest of Thedas.

 

Mind you, I think the old god dragons may very well be spirits that have taken the form of these dragons and gotten trapped within them when everything came tumbling down.  but there were still plenty of other, natural dragons.

[rapscallioness]

Or maybe these dragon "spirits" are not really spirits like the Spirit of Faith, Compassion, Valor. Rather, they're just these powerful mages shapeshifting, and /or possessing a dragon through their powerful magic.

[rapscallioness]

...you know, guys, I've come to think the Evanuris are not from Thedas. Perhaps that was already obvious and I'm slow on the uptake.

 

I think, or I could see.....they are from a completely different land--nothing even so fanciful as another dimension. Just another land. I see..the Eluvians, they're like that hacking game from DX:HR, where you have to capture the nodes to unlock other branching paths. Ultimately you want to catch the main node. The Eluvians-when all the nodes are activated-lead to a master Eluvian which was the entry way for these Evanuris from another land.

 

This is  why the Tree symbolism is important. It does not actually represent elven love for trees, tralala and all that. It's actually an old memory of this branching network of Eluvian nodes that leads to a master Eluvian. One for where the evanuris came from, but there could be other main nodes that lead to other lands.

 

There may be many, many lands. When Solas created the Veil and everything broke, Thedas became isolated, cut off. All this time living in a bubble.

 

Thedas could simply be a territory a part of a much larger domain ruled from very far. Like an empire and its colonies. The Evanuris-like governors, initially. Ones sent to explore and settle the place. Make way for something else? It went to their heads, though.

 

And perhaps that's how the humans got there, too. Since no one can really figure how they showed up. It says when the first humans arrived, the ruling elves were very hostile towards them. I always thought that was the elves-elves, but it could be the Evanuris. I would say the humans showed up before the Veil and destruction of the Eluvians happened because the elves always thought the humans were the ones responsible for their new mortality.

 

Although, Im not sure how you do not notice the Veil coming down. Sundered from the Fade, crossroads and Eluvians destroyed. The "gods" gone. You start dying left and right. I guess Solas did not tell them what happened? Did he pass out from the exertion to slumber all this time?

 

Eh. /rambling.

[fizzypop]

I'm still scratching my head at why a dragon would ever agree to be possessed. Furthermore, if it was just a possessed Dragon, then corrupting the Old Gods would most likely fail. Dragons are already more resistant than others and being possessed by a spirit makes you even more resistant and possibly immune (though it does not automatically cure you). Evidence for this is that Fiona was cured of the taint using a spirit and that creating runes that damage blighted creatures requires the remains of possessed corpses.

So something doesn't add up there. Furthermore, if the Old Gods were just dragons (possessed or not), there's no good reason why they should be able to command the horde. Corypheus dragon can't command the horde, so why would a possessed dragon be able to? On top of that, Spirits haven't a clue what the Blight is either.

It is said that the maker imprisoned the old gods to eternally slumber. So it stands to reason that the maker is the reason these spirits are trapped in those forms, they can't leave, and are being corrupted. The maker is likely powerful enough to make it impossible for them to escape from the body. It is possible that even the maker didn't intend for the blight to happen, but that because the maker trapped these spirits in they eventually became corrupted by red lyrium (we know this can corrupt nearly anything and everything) and/or darkspawn. If it is the former then it makes sense why they would start calling out to the darkspawn. They become corrupted by the red lyrium and call out. They may not even realize they are doing this, cory didn't realize he was calling out to the dwarves at first either. Once the darkspawn find them they are then further changed into an archdemon.

I'm definitely of the mind that the Evanuris aren't actual elves something else perhaps even from a different world (Morrigan does make this sound possible). It wouldn't surprise me if they were able to take the form of Elves and many other things. So in that sense there could be some overlap between Eleven and Human religion. Religion is often just an inaccurate history book especially in Thedas. We know that the veil didn't destroy the Evanuris. They are likely still alive in the fade somewhere.

[rapscallioness]

Hmm, it would be interesting if/when Solas lifts the Veil and the Eluvian are completely working, not only do the Evanuris wake, or are freed, but their superiors could show up as well.

 

I mean, if Evanuris started out as simple generals, they should have superiors. A chain of command that was cut off with the implementation of the Veil.

 

If that returned, it could open a way for these higher ups to finally see wth has been going on? Why was communication cut, etc?

 

Like the end of Lord of the Flies. These kids stranded on an island left to their own devices and they lose their collective minds. At the end the adults suddenly find them and they're like, "what have you done?" Or in the words of our Quizzy's, "What's going on here?"

 

Regardless, I do think these Evanuris can take many forms, and suspect that there is great overlap between the religions and old stories.

[Star Reborn]

Aren't the evanuris just powerful elven mages?

[Reznore57]

In Dalish creation tales , the Evanuris at least Mythal and Elgar'nan defeated the Sun , the Sun isn't the Titans for sure because when they hunted the Titans they were already seen as Gods.

 

I assume the Sun was the Great Dragons and they were like the Titans of the Fade , shaping the surface with their thoughts.

The elves defeated them and then started to mimic them , taking their forms as proof they were now Divine.

[Star Reborn]

Elvhan Creator Statues have Dragon Wings.

[Lolomlas]

What if the Old Gods were dragons who were possessed by the Evanuris somehow? And that is why they told the Magisters to go to the Fade, hoping they would free them.