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[Star Reborn]

So are Humans just delusional fodder, blinded by the penumbra, or the Shadows of greater beings (the Elves). Are the spirits just precipitates of the Fade that are "inspired", and bounded. Are humans going around in circles in Thedas, or are they THAT simple?

[diaspora2k5]

So are Humans are just delusional fodder, blinded the penumbra, or the Shadows of greater beings (the Elves). Are the spirits just precipitates of the Fade that are "inspired", and bounded. Are humans going around in circles in Thedas, or are they THAT simple?

Maybe they're spirits made physical- like Cole. Ultimately the origins of humanity in thedas is one thing that hasn't been explored at all and is something we know less about than even the Qunari/Kossith.

[sandalisthemaker]

Maybe they're spirits made physical- like Cole. 

 

That's what I'm starting to wonder too. 

[rapscallioness]

Well, I ran across an astrarium thing the other day. It was the one about the ship. The one-it said-that was like the ones the Neromenians came to Thedas on from the North. It said in ancient Tevene it was said as Voyager.

 

I think the humans are real all on their own. Not shadows of the elves. What their history was, where in the north they came from and why, what myth/story and/or knowledge they can bring to the larger puzzle of Thedas, Idk. We are just beginning to learn some of it with the Avvar.

 

And is the black city really black, or ever golden? Or rather does it exist as an independent thing at all? Everything in the fade is supposed to be a projection of living minds.

[NaclynE]

So are Humans just delusional fodder, blinded the penumbra, or the Shadows of greater beings (the Elves). Are the spirits just precipitates of the Fade that are "inspired", and bounded. Are humans going around in circles in Thedas, or are they THAT simple?

 

I'm still unsure what is up with the black city anyway.

 

From all of my collective knowledge from all DA games it's a part of the fade world that only a select amount of people can enter. It's a-lot like the many theories of Hell where there are so many layers that even us humans can enter or exit. The highest layer of Hell is preaty close to DA's Fade where practically people can accidently enter and either stay in forever or get lucky and somehow exit. The deepest seems to be where the devil is located. The DA equivalant sounds like the Black City. However from the way it sounds if anyone enters the black city it's like Heaven having a connection to Hell. If Someone does reach the Black City they'll supposedly get infinite evil power to do ungodly evil stuff which would destroy all of Thedas.

 

It's just a theory from what I have gathered from all of the DA games I have played.

[Star Reborn]

Well, I ran across an astrarium thing the other day. It was the one about the ship. The one-it said-that was like the ones the Neromenians came to Thedas on from the North. It said in ancient Tevene it was said as Voyager.

 

I think the humans are real all on their own. Not shadows of the elves. What their history was, where in the north they came from and why, what myth/story and/or knowledge they can bring to the larger puzzle of Thedas, Idk. We are just beginning to learn some of it with the Avvar.

 

And is the black city really black, or ever golden? Or rather does it exist as an independent thing at all? Everything in the fade is supposed to be a projection of living minds.

What bothers me is that if they came from another land, it should be known, and details should be given. It's not like they did something so bad, or embarrasiing that everyone decided never to speak of it again. Same with the Qunari. Its wierd.

[In Exile]

I'm still unsure what is up with the black city anyway.

 

From all of my collective knowledge from all DA games it's a part of the fade world that only a select amount of people can enter. It's a-lot like the many theories of Hell where there are so many layers that even us humans can enter or exit. The highest layer of Hell is preaty close to DA's Fade where practically people can accidently enter and either stay in forever or get lucky and somehow exit. The deepest seems to be where the devil is located. The DA equivalant sounds like the Black City. However from the way it sounds if anyone enters the black city it's like Heaven having a connection to Hell. If Someone does reach the Black City they'll supposedly get infinite evil power to do ungodly evil stuff which would destroy all of Thedas.

 

It's just a theory from what I have gathered from all of the DA games I have played.

 

I've been pushing the same theory for a while, and DA:I basically just confirmed it with Trespasser, so here we go:

 

We learn in DA:I (the main game) that the Elves basically create pocket dimensions. This is what the Crossroads are - one of many elven pocket dimensions. In hearing Solas describe ancient elven society, we learn that they had "floating" cities. We see (in the endgame) Corypheus use the foci - the orb, which was an artefact of the ancient elves and clearly tied to Solas's true power - to "raise" a city. When we "travel" to the "physical Fade", we find a totally disconnected space with a bunch of floating rocks - things that look like ruins, and we even see shattered buildings. Solas alludes the Fade wasn't always a "place".

 

In Trespasser we learn that when Solas created the Veil, he seriously and radically messed with the "geography" of the Fade. Things got split up, broken apart and mushed around. 

 

The "Fade" is, IMO, just another reflection of some elven pocket dimension where Solas "stuffed" all the Fade-related stuff to "trap" away the Evanuris. The Black City is probably just a remnant - a part of - some ancient elven citadel/artefact. I don't necessary think it's wrong to call it Arlathan, though I actually think what we see as the "physical" Fade is all Arlathan - the broken up and shattered remnants of the city floating about this endless ether where Solas stuffed the Fade. 

 

I would wager Solas trapped the Evanuris in the "Black" City along with something else - he seems to be a troll like that, and it ties up well with his comment in Trespasser that he has a plan for dealing with them. A lot is made in Trespasser - by the Library spirit - that things got split in "two". If we run with the theory that the Old Gods are the sleeping forms of the Evanuris, well( the whole dragons = divine form), then we can just say that what's trapped in the Black City were the Evanuris... plus something else (i.e., the Blight). 

 

Solas says that creating the Veil was the least worst alternative - maybe that's the explanation. The Blight was rampant, so he needed a way to trap it. And the Evanuris were insane and responsible for it, so he needed somewhere to trap them. And so he took care of two birds with one world-altering stone, and trapped both of them in an Elven pocket dimension. Except however he did it led to everything getting part of its nature "trapped" there, and so created the modern Fade, a physical "Veil" separating the two, and broke the elves. 

[Star Reborn]

I've been pushing the same theory for a while, and DA:I basically just confirmed it with Trespasser, so here we go:

 

We learn in DA:I (the main game) that the Elves basically create pocket dimensions. This is what the Crossroads are - one of many elven pocket dimensions. In hearing Solas describe ancient elven society, we learn that they had "floating" cities. We see (in the endgame) Corypheus use the foci - the orb, which was an artefact of the ancient elves and clearly tied to Solas's true power - to "raise" a city. When we "travel" to the "physical Fade", we find a totally disconnected space with a bunch of floating rocks - things that look like ruins, and we even see shattered buildings. Solas alludes the Fade wasn't always a "place".

 

In Trespasser we learn that when Solas created the Veil, he seriously and radically messed with the "geography" of the Fade. Things got split up, broken apart and mushed around. 

 

The "Fade" is, IMO, just another reflection of some elven pocket dimension where Solas "stuffed" all the Fade-related stuff to "trap" away the Evanuris. The Black City is probably just a remnant - a part of - some ancient elven citadel/artefact. I don't necessary think it's wrong to call it Arlathan, though I actually think what we see as the "physical" Fade is all Arlathan - the broken up and shattered remnants of the city floating about this endless ether where Solas stuffed the Fade. 

 

I would wager Solas trapped the Evanuris in the "Black" City along with something else - he seems to be a troll like that, and it ties up well with his comment in Trespasser that he has a plan for dealing with them. A lot is made in Trespasser - by the Library spirit - that things got split in "two". If we run with the theory that the Old Gods are the sleeping forms of the Evanuris, well( the whole dragons = divine form), then we can just say that what's trapped in the Black City were the Evanuris... plus something else (i.e., the Blight). 

 

Solas says that creating the Veil was the least worst alternative - maybe that's the explanation. The Blight was rampant, so he needed a way to trap it. And the Evanuris were insane and responsible for it, so he needed somewhere to trap them. And so he took care of two birds with one world-altering stone, and trapped both of them in an Elven pocket dimension. Except however he did it led to everything getting part of its nature "trapped" there, and so created the modern Fade, a physical "Veil" separating the two, and broke the elves. 

If the Old gods are the sleeping forms of the Evanuris, ( the whole dragons = divine form) then what are these so called "Arch emons", just blighted dragons? Same as how Corypheus's Arch emon lookalike, was just a red-lyriumed dragon?

[In Exile]

If the Old gods are the sleeping forms of the Evanuris, ( the whole dragons = divine form) then what are these so called "Arch emons", just blighted dragons? Same as how Corypheus's Arch emon lookalike, was just a red-lyriumed dragon?

 

That's what I think, which explains why Flemeth wanted to save Urthemiel. Well, at least why she wanted it preserved - for all we know, she was saving a slot on the rack for him. 

[rapscallioness]

What bothers me is that if they came from another land, it should be known, and details should be given. It's not like they did something so bad, or embarrasiing that everyone decided never to speak of it again. Same with the Qunari. Its wierd.

 

It's surprising and rather alarming at just how much we forget, though. Or how much gets twisted.

 

Who knows? Maybe there was something sinister afoot. Maybe exiled from some place and never spoke of it because of the shame. Or maybe humans had some nefarious intent when coming here. Known only by a select few.

 

The humans have done so much to destroy and marginalize any old story that was not in support of Andrastianism and its tenets. There could have been some heavy magic involved. Maybe even a dark magic. Something that would make the Chantry clutch its pearls. So any info about the true origins of humans in Thedas would be destroyed or pushed down.

 

Any kind of info that would rock the boat so to say. Depending on your worldview, that is. But usually suppression of knowledge is because-for whatever reason-its consider a great scandal, or some dark crime, or ...trespass, occurred that some one wants to keep hidden. Something either done by them, or to them.

 

I suspect as much with the Qunari and their origins. Something weird is going on with them, too. And it gives me this sense of an uncomfortable truth/revelation may be there.

 

I hope we see. But you're right, it is odd. How do we not know something like that? I think threads of truth may lie with the Avvar myths, but I don;t recall finding anything in JoH that alluded to an origin story.

[rapscallioness]

*snip*

 

I would wager Solas trapped the Evanuris in the "Black" City along with something else - he seems to be a troll like that, and it ties up well with his comment in Trespasser that he has a plan for dealing with them. A lot is made in Trespasser - by the Library spirit - that things got split in "two". If we run with the theory that the Old Gods are the sleeping forms of the Evanuris, well( the whole dragons = divine form), then we can just say that what's trapped in the Black City were the Evanuris... plus something else (i.e., the Blight). 

 

Solas says that creating the Veil was the least worst alternative - maybe that's the explanation. The Blight was rampant, so he needed a way to trap it. And the Evanuris were insane and responsible for it, so he needed somewhere to trap them. And so he took care of two birds with one world-altering stone, and trapped both of them in an Elven pocket dimension. Except however he did it led to everything getting part of its nature "trapped" there, and so created the modern Fade, a physical "Veil" separating the two, and broke the elves. 

 

this is interesting. Especially about how the Blight may have been created by these Evanuris. Maybe a weapon of some sort?

 

At any rate, it reminds me of when Mythal was going on about how not only she was betrayed, but this world was betrayed. Did they create something so vulgar? Intended as a weapon of sorts? It gets unwittingly unleashed, though, by the Tevinter magisters.

 

The elves say the blight is from the void. Is the void the same as the fade to them? I thought the fade to elves was called the beyond? I'm uncertain as to what exactly this void is referring to.

[Star Reborn]

What is the Void?

[thats1evildude]

What is the Void?

According to the ancient elves, the Void was the home of the Forgotten Ones. In Chantry mythology, the Void refers to a place where the Maker is absent. They may be one and the same.

[Star Reborn]

According to the ancient elves, the Void was the home of the Forgotten Ones. In Chantry mythology, the Void refers to a place whete the Maker is absent. Thry may be one and the same.

Is it where Caradin got the Anvil of the Void?

[BansheeOwnage]

this is interesting. Especially about how the Blight may have been created by these Evanuris. Maybe a weapon of some sort?

The idea that the blight is a (potentially elven) bio-weapon has been floating around for a while, but now that we know they fought Titans, and it corrupts lyrium into red lyrium, that possibility is even more interesting. They obviously underestimated it, though.

[Star Reborn]

The idea that the blight is a (potentially elven) bio-weapon has been floating around for a while, but now that we know they fought Titans, and it corrupts lyrium into red lyrium, that possibility is even more interesting. They obviously underestimated it, though.

Maybe in DA4 we might fight a red lyrium titan, or that rock wraith we fought in DA2 is a red lyrium titan. I thought they would be bigger, like mountain big.

[rapscallioness]

Btw, I had that astrarium thing a little fuddled. It actually says it's, "Constellation Peraquialas" and it is a "primitive vessel sailed by ancient peoples such as the Neromenians" and that it's translated as "Across the Sea" and lends crdence the idea that the Neromenians came from elsewhere.

 

The across the sea thing is interesting to me, though. It reminds me of that one war table quest. I think it was the strange chalk markings. When you get to the end, at least in mine, you get this note that says your spymaster is good, but we've seen what we've wanted to see--or something like that. And basically they'll be in touch. And they're referred to at some point in the text quest as "Those from Across the Sea".

 

I always thought those were the Qunari. Still may be, but Idk.

[azarhal]

Btw, I had that astrarium thing a little fuddled. It actually says it's, "Constellation Peraquialas" and it is a "primitive vessel sailed by ancient peoples such as the Neromenians" and that it's translated as "Across the Sea" and lends crdence the idea that the Neromenians came from elsewhere.

 

The across the sea thing is interesting to me, though. It reminds me of that one war table quest. I think it was the strange chalk markings. When you get to the end, at least in mine, you get this note that says your spymaster is good, but we've seen what we've wanted to see--or something like that. And basically they'll be in touch. And they're referred to at some point in the text quest as "Those from Across the Sea".

 

I always thought those were the Qunari. Still may be, but Idk.

 

That war table series is about the Executors, we know less about them than we know about the Order of Fiery Promises. Which means not much.

 

As for the Neromenians, there is something I find fishy. If they were the first human tribes and came form the North where does the Alamarri and other Southern Human Tribes come from? They don't share beliefs or customs and they moved south sooner then the Neromenians did.

[DreadWolf4]

 but going back to the black city do you reckon the dread wolf lock the ancient elves there that's why there no way out and when corypheus broke in with the other magisters they got cast out and that how the blight stared  

[AstraDrakkar]

It's surprising and rather alarming at just how much we forget, though. Or how much gets twisted.

 

Who knows? Maybe there was something sinister afoot. Maybe exiled from some place and never spoke of it because of the shame. Or maybe humans had some nefarious intent when coming here. Known only by a select few.

 

The humans have done so much to destroy and marginalize any old story that was not in support of Andrastianism and its tenets. There could have been some heavy magic involved. Maybe even a dark magic. Something that would make the Chantry clutch its pearls. So any info about the true origins of humans in Thedas would be destroyed or pushed down.

 

Any kind of info that would rock the boat so to say. Depending on your worldview, that is. But usually suppression of knowledge is because-for whatever reason-its consider a great scandal, or some dark crime, or ...trespass, occurred that some one wants to keep hidden. Something either done by them, or to them.

 

I suspect as much with the Qunari and their origins. Something weird is going on with them, too. And it gives me this sense of an uncomfortable truth/revelation may be there.

 

I hope we see. But you're right, it is odd. How do we not know something like that? I think threads of truth may lie with the Avvar myths, but I don;t recall finding anything in JoH that alluded to an origin story.

 

One of the things I keep wondering about are all those pyramids in Par Vollen. We know that the Qunari didn't create them. Who did? Maybe there is a reason Bioware hasn't shown us that place yet. I think Par Vollen may have some critical information related to Thedas. I'm guessing the pyramids are related to the astrariums in some way. Solas does say he's unfamiliar with them. Of course he's been known to lie.................

[Kantr]

I've been pushing the same theory for a while, and DA:I basically just confirmed it with Trespasser, so here we go:

 

We learn in DA:I (the main game) that the Elves basically create pocket dimensions. This is what the Crossroads are - one of many elven pocket dimensions. In hearing Solas describe ancient elven society, we learn that they had "floating" cities. We see (in the endgame) Corypheus use the foci - the orb, which was an artefact of the ancient elves and clearly tied to Solas's true power - to "raise" a city. When we "travel" to the "physical Fade", we find a totally disconnected space with a bunch of floating rocks - things that look like ruins, and we even see shattered buildings. Solas alludes the Fade wasn't always a "place".

 

In Trespasser we learn that when Solas created the Veil, he seriously and radically messed with the "geography" of the Fade. Things got split up, broken apart and mushed around. 

 

The "Fade" is, IMO, just another reflection of some elven pocket dimension where Solas "stuffed" all the Fade-related stuff to "trap" away the Evanuris. The Black City is probably just a remnant - a part of - some ancient elven citadel/artefact. I don't necessary think it's wrong to call it Arlathan, though I actually think what we see as the "physical" Fade is all Arlathan - the broken up and shattered remnants of the city floating about this endless ether where Solas stuffed the Fade. 

 

I would wager Solas trapped the Evanuris in the "Black" City along with something else - he seems to be a troll like that, and it ties up well with his comment in Trespasser that he has a plan for dealing with them. A lot is made in Trespasser - by the Library spirit - that things got split in "two". If we run with the theory that the Old Gods are the sleeping forms of the Evanuris, well( the whole dragons = divine form), then we can just say that what's trapped in the Black City were the Evanuris... plus something else (i.e., the Blight). 

 

Solas says that creating the Veil was the least worst alternative - maybe that's the explanation. The Blight was rampant, so he needed a way to trap it. And the Evanuris were insane and responsible for it, so he needed somewhere to trap them. And so he took care of two birds with one world-altering stone, and trapped both of them in an Elven pocket dimension. Except however he did it led to everything getting part of its nature "trapped" there, and so created the modern Fade, a physical "Veil" separating the two, and broke the elves. 

The current fade being created as where the elves stashed things doesnt make sense though. As there are entries about elves exploring the deepest reaches of the fade. Plus the spirits have gone to there as well. Afraid of another breach.

[Ashagar]

That war table series is about the Executors, we know less about them than we know about the Order of Fiery Promises. Which means not much.

 

As for the Neromenians, there is something I find fishy. If they were the first human tribes and came form the North where does the Alamarri and other Southern Human Tribes come from? They don't share beliefs or customs and they moved south sooner then the Neromenians did.

 

From what I undertstand its a tad confusing, the Neromenians came out of the north bringing maker worship with them though only the northern Neromenian tribes that became the Tevinter practiced it, the southern Neromenian Tribes were animists instead. the Alamarri that split into the various southern tribal groups supposbely came out of the east somewhere from beyond whats now Orlasis not the north. Whats not clear at all is where the dark skinned people of Rivan came from.

[rapscallioness]

That war table series is about the Executors, we know less about them than we know about the Order of Fiery Promises. Which means not much.

 

As for the Neromenians, there is something I find fishy. If they were the first human tribes and came form the North where does the Alamarri and other Southern Human Tribes come from? They don't share beliefs or customs and they moved south sooner then the Neromenians did.

 

I was really under the impression that they all started as Neromenians and simply splintered as time went by. All I have to go by is WoT 1 where they say," The humans are said to have first appeared from the north as a single tribe."

 

Then later it says that the humans may be the most dominant they are also the most fractured, "The race's tribal roots led to the evolution of distinct groups with their own language's, customs and beliefs."

[rapscallioness]

One of the things I keep wondering about are all those pyramids in Par Vollen. We know that the Qunari didn't create them. Who did? Maybe there is a reason Bioware hasn't shown us that place yet. I think Par Vollen may have some critical information related to Thedas. I'm guessing the pyramids are related to the astrariums in some way. Solas does say he's unfamiliar with them. Of course he's been known to lie.................

 

Ah, yes. Those are interesting. And from what I remember it is said that theyr were there long before the Qunari. And yet, they also have these images of horned beings within the ruins. It seems it was once a great civilization long forgotten.

 

Did the Qunari bust it up, or did they simply find it as ruins already?

[fizzypop]

If the Old gods are the sleeping forms of the Evanuris, ( the whole dragons = divine form) then what are these so called "Arch emons", just blighted dragons? Same as how Corypheus's Arch emon lookalike, was just a red-lyriumed dragon?

If their theory is true then wouldn't it mean that Cory and the other magistrates unleashed the blight? I mean the maker is said to have imprisoned the old gods after mages allowed them to enter the physical world. They helped the mages to enter into the "golden city" which would then unleash the blight. I mean the maker could really just be a way to explain the events of what happened. Not an actual person. We know that the old gods were said to have whispered from the golden city.

Just taking their theory and running with it a bit. It is a good one and it would explain how the Evanuris got back here (IE their spirits possessing the dragons). Solas may not even know that the old gods = Evanuris. I mean he was asleep for a very long time. He doesn't seem to know much or anything about the blight. If that's all true then they are corrupted fully now and aren't going to be as they were before. It would explain why Flemeth was trying to preserve their souls. She knows the truth.