367 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahglock]

Why do characters have to go out like a boss for so many people. Yeah it can be cool and epic. But, some of the best deaths in books and movies come out of no where or just have a character murdered with no fight. It reminds you that however bad ass they are, They are still mortal. I think how wrex can be killed in virmire is a good example especially when done by ash. Shot in the back of the head and then repeatedly on the ground. Not epic just murdered. Okay I thought it was epic. I'd like more of that but from the enemies not the protagonist side.

[themikefest]

Ashley killing Wrex on Virmire was excellent. My Shepard didn't like the clown for pointing his weapon at her. I could've shot him, but it was cool with Ashley shooting him

[Han Shot First]

That's pretty different, though. I wouldn't mind seeing something similar to SM mechanics in the last push, but based on something more tangible (and smarter) than loyalty.

 

I'm not too crazy about squadmate survival being tied to whether or not the hero sorted their daddy issues either. Even worse is tying survival to the status of romantic relationships. (Miranda in ME3)

 

Tying loyalty to survival worked with Wrex, but his situation was different in that he has to be convinced not to fight Shepard and the rest of the team over destroying the genophage cure. Loyalty being a factor there made sense because you're asking him to go against his species in the short term, and the confrontation was with Shepard, revolving around their personal relationship and whether or not the two had established some mutual trust.

 

It didn't work quite as well with the ME2 squadmates. Why for example should Jacob having met his father, determine whether or not the Collectors turn him into a bullet sponge?

 

There was a suicide mission in ME3. The beam run. Remember everyone decided to run straight while Harbinger vaporizes everyone. No one wanted to get to cover or at least make any effort to avoid the beam. So yeah, there was a suicide mission in ME3. If ems is below 2000, the squadmates get to join  them by being killed by Harbinger

 

There was a suicide mission in the military sense of the term. I was using it more in the ME2 gameplay sense however, as in a mission where the entire team is involved and you assign members to certain roles, with consequences.

 

I'm hoping the final mission of Andromeda will be similar to ME2's suicide mission. I don't know yet whether I'd prefer some casualties, since I don't know what kind of story Bioware is trying to tell, or whether this game is a standalone or the first part of a series, but in any case I hope we get at least one mission where they have every squadmate involved.

[themikefest]

I'm not too crazy about squadmate survival being tied to whether or not the hero sorted their daddy issues either. Even worse is tying survival to the status of romantic relationships. (Miranda in ME3)

My problem is that if the loyalty missions weren't completed in ME2, they're carried over into ME3 causing those squadmates to die no matter what Shepard chooses to do. Kasumi, Zaeed, Grunt and Miranda have to be loyal to survive in ME3
 
 

There was a suicide mission in the military sense of the term. I was using it more in the ME2 gameplay sense however, as in a mission where the entire team is involved and you assign members to certain roles, with consequences.

 Having a mission at the end would be hard to do since Bioware would have to explain who these squadmates are from ME2 since new players don't know who they are. Remember ME3 is the best place to start playing a trilogy. Had Bioware been given more time, they may of included a suicide type mission and shown more of our war assets doing whatever.
 

I'm hoping the final mission of Andromeda will be similar to ME2's suicide mission. I don't know yet whether I'd prefer some casualties, since I don't know what kind of story Bioware is trying to tell, or whether this game is a standalone or the first part of a series, but in any case I hope we get at least one mission where they have every squadmate involved.

I like the idea of a suicide mission, just don't know enough about Andromeda if one is needed.

[AlanC9]

My problem is that if the loyalty missions weren't completed in ME2, they're carried over into ME3 causing those squadmates to die no matter what Shepard chooses to do. Kasumi, Zaeed, Grunt and Miranda have to be loyal to survive in ME3

 

I don't see the issue here. What's wrong with carrying over those consequences?

[themikefest]

I don't see the issue here. What's wrong with carrying over those consequences?

If other squadmates don't have to be loyal to survive in ME3, why can't those 4?

 

There's nothing wrong with carrying over consequences. It just tells me they have a problem with putting aside personal problems that effect their performance. This also applies to all the other ME2 squadmates since they can all die in ME2.

[Ahglock]

If other squadmates don't have to be loyal to survive in ME3, why can't those 4?

There's nothing wrong with carrying over consequences. It just tells me they have a problem with putting aside personal problems that effect their performance. This also applies to all the other ME2 squadmates since they can all die in ME2.

I don't have a issue with it in ME2. It's a cliche but people like to get their stuff in order before death. And no matter how professional you are deeply personal things can stop you from having your head in the game. For it still to be effecting you months later seems kind of weird though. Yes loss hits you for a while, but you should be able to regain your professionalism while still mourning months later.

Consequences carrying over is fine. In the case of no loyalty it should be a blunt I helped you with the collectors now you can screw your self there are plenty of other places I can help with the war effort. But deaths just seems weird.

[AlanC9]

If other squadmates don't have to be loyal to survive in ME3, why can't those 4?
 
There's nothing wrong with carrying over consequences. It just tells me they have a problem with putting aside personal problems that effect their performance. This also applies to all the other ME2 squadmates since they can all die in ME2.

Well, sure, but that's no different from ME2 itself.

This could also be an argument for loyalty for the other ME2 characters to be a factor in their ME3 fates. (Tali and Legion's loyalty has an effect, but not on them, none of the others are in play at all IIRC.) For instance, Samara's suicide being unavoidable if she's non-loyal, or a non-loyal Thane dying before ME3 starts.

[themikefest]

Well, sure, but that's no different from ME2 itself.

This could also be an argument for loyalty for the other ME2 characters to be a factor in their ME3 fates. (Tali and Legion's loyalty has an effect, but not on them, none of the others are in play at all IIRC.) For instance, Samara's suicide being unavoidable if she's non-loyal, or a non-loyal Thane dying before ME3 starts.

The others can live, loyal or not, depending on the actions of Shepard whereas with the 4 I mentioned, will die no matter what Shepard chooses to do if they are not loyal

 

Legion and Thane will always die no matter what in ME3

[AlanC9]

The others can live, loyal or not, depending on the actions of Shepard whereas with the 4 I mentioned, will die no matter what Shepard chooses to do if they are not loyal

 

 

 

But that just means that thy're dependent on Shepard's actions in the previous game, rather than Shepard's actions in the current game. This isn't helping me to see the issue.

[themikefest]

But that just means that thy're dependent on Shepard's actions in the previous game, rather than Shepard's actions in the current game. This isn't helping me to see the issue.

I just like to see consequences for all squadmates from ME2 in ME3 and not just those 4.

[LinksOcarina]

Actually, there's a case for it: one of the issues behind the complaints and the ending was that it was jarring in the context of the rest of the story- that the ending stands out in contrast so much because, on the Perfect Paragon route, Shepard routinely avoids or escapes negative consequences. Mordin's a loss, sure, but not a defeat- a heroic sacrifice, rather than a moment of failure, which was the point of Thesia. And that was early in the game, after which Shepard goes from one victory.

 

A forced-death choice could have helped innoculate the player to the lack of an ideal option of the ending. When you can avoid negative consequences entirely, they always seem like fail states, but the Virmire situation helped set up the finale of ME1 and it's unavoidable casualties delimma by establishing the threat of the enemy in advance. The same could apply here- which, in turn, would put the players in the right mindset for the finale and the prospect of losing Shepard.

 

Now, it'd require Kai Leng to be handled better- far from a guarantee- but it could.

 

I don't even think that could save Kai Leng...he was really the true weak link of Mass Effect 3. 

[JeffZero]

*waves his "Kai Leng was not that bad, sheesh" flag*

*as always, gets booed off the stage posthaste*

He really wasn't that bad, sheesh... :/

[Dean_the_Young]

*waves his "Kai Leng was not that bad, sheesh" flag*

*as always, gets booed off the stage posthaste*

He really wasn't that bad, sheesh... :/

 

Cereal, man. It all comes down to the cereal.

[JeffZero]

Not canon! Not! Can! On!

[dreamgazer]

*waves his "Kai Leng was not that bad, sheesh" flag*
*as always, gets booed off the stage posthaste*
He really wasn't that bad, sheesh... :/

He wasn't that bad.

About on the same level as Benezia as far as henchman go, really, from questionable outfits and iffy dialogue to flawed boss battles.

[JeffZero]

He wasn't that bad.

About on the same level as Benezia as far as henchman go, really, from questionable outfits and iffy dialogue to flawed boss battles.

Aye.

[LinksOcarina]

*waves his "Kai Leng was not that bad, sheesh" flag*

*as always, gets booed off the stage posthaste*

He really wasn't that bad, sheesh... :/

 

I don't know...he was tough to swallow if you ask me. Mostly because of how bland he was. At least Benezia had more personality, and even a tragic one at that. Leng was pretty much a mute...I think he said like 3 things the entire game and just killed people with a sword...

[JeffZero]

I get it, for sure. Somehow, he mildly manages to work for me though. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that he is the lame culmination of everything my best friend wanted to be when we were both angsty teenagers, and my friend's name is Kalin so it isn't even far off.

Maybe it is as simple and stupid and silly as that.

[LinksOcarina]

I get it, for sure. Somehow, he mildly manages to work for me though. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that he is the lame culmination of everything my best friend wanted to be when we were both angsty teenagers, and my friend's name is Kalin so it isn't even far off.

Maybe it is as simple and stupid and silly as that.

 

Or, cyber ninja is simply cool.

 

But it's like the Human Reaper...very video-gamey.

[JeffZero]

Not always a problem for me. I do rather wish there were some kind of "final boss" in London, for example.

Again though, I get ya.

[Iakus]

My problem is that if the loyalty missions weren't completed in ME2, they're carried over into ME3 causing those squadmates to die no matter what Shepard chooses to do. Kasumi, Zaeed, Grunt and Miranda have to be loyal to survive in ME3
 

Thane and Samara too.  They die offscreen (between ME2 and ME3) if they are not loyal.

[Iakus]

*waves his "Kai Leng was not that bad, sheesh" flag*

*as always, gets booed off the stage posthaste*

He really wasn't that bad, sheesh... :/

Conceptually, no he's not that bad.  On paper, he's a great idea as a foil for Shepard.

 

But he was pulled off very, very badly.  Like, CloneShep was a better-executed villain.

 

Mass Effect: Deception probably didn't help matters.

[themikefest]

Thane and Samara too.  They die offscreen (between ME2 and ME3) if they are not loyal.

Never heard of that. They've always been in ME3 when I recruited them and didn't do their loyalty missions. I even prevented Samara from shooting herself when she wasn't loyal

[JeffZero]

Conceptually, no he's not that bad. On paper, he's a great idea as a foil for Shepard.

But he was pulled off very, very badly. Like, CloneShep was a better-executed villain.

Mass Effect: Deception probably didn't help matters.

I just don't agree that he's quite that terrible. I rather enjoy getting back at him for Thane!