52 réponses à ce sujet

[actionhero112]

Two larger opposing forces throwing their weight around? 

 

I dunno, the entirety of DA2 built up this simmering uprising of the mages, only to kind of fizzle out anticlimactically in inquisition. 

 

Peace wasn't even reached, no real resolution happened. 

 

You kind of just picked what side you wanted in the inquisition and Cory got the leftovers. 

 

I don't even think they bring it up again in the story beyond them closing the breach with you. And then whatever your divine decides goes for both sides, even though they both broke away from the chantry to begin with.

 

I wish they would have done more with it, considering the buildup in DA2. 

If you're having trouble with my perspective, answer this question instead: 

 

If the entirety of the Solas conflict was solved by one story mission in DA4, would you feel cheated? 

 

[BansheeOwnage]

I agree that the culmination of the mage-templar conflict was rather anti-climactic. You don't really get the chance to directly support a side, you just fight a bunch of crazy mages and templars in the Hinterlands (which was a boring quest), then conscript or ally with one of the factions for practical reasons (which were cool quests). And in the end that barely even makes a difference to the game or the ending slides.

[Lazarillo]

To be fair, the implication is that Corypheus had a hand in starting the war more or less in the first place.  Granted, he wasn't the only factor, but Leliana mentioned that Tevinter (or, as we can now presume, the Venatori) had agents infiltrating the Circles to sew discord, and the Templars were also his puppets due to the red Lyrium.  Top it all off, the Epilogue slides all make it pretty clear that the strife is still there, with the Mages pretty much ready to revolt again at the slightest prodding. 

[actionhero112]

To be fair, the implication is that Corypheus had a hand in starting the war more or less in the first place.  Granted, he wasn't the only factor, but Leliana mentioned that Tevinter (or, as we can now presume, the Venatori) had agents infiltrating the Circles to sew discord, and the Templars were also his puppets due to the red Lyrium.  Top it all off, the Epilogue slides all make it pretty clear that the strife is still there, with the Mages pretty much ready to revolt again at the slightest prodding. 

 

If the Solas conflict (which was built up over the entirety of inquisition) was solved in one story mission would you feel cheated? 

[Just My Moniker]

Not every war is epic

 

 

[Lazarillo]

If the Solas conflict (which was built up over the entirety of inquisition) was solved in one story mission would you feel cheated? 

 

I don't know that the Solas conflict was "built up over the entirety of Inquisition"...it was mostly just built up in the end of Trespasser.

But honestly, it depends on how it was handled.  As I mentioned, part of the reason it worked in DAI was because the war was just a smoke screen. If Solas gets screwed over rather early on because he's just being played as well...maybe it could work?  Of course, there are only so many times you can manipulate the manipulator of the manipulator of the manipulator before the franchise turns into Metal Gear, so pulling the same twist twice is not advisable.

[Lazarillo]

Not every war is epic

 

 

 

 

Kirkwall declared the common nug a noxious vermin in 5:20 Exalted over fears that the animals carried the Blight. The extermination became known as the Battle of Squealing Plains. It is not spoken of in polite company.

[Just My Moniker]

Kirkwall declared the common nug a noxious vermin in 5:20 Exalted over fears that the animals carried the Blight. The extermination became known as the Battle of Squealing Plains. It is not spoken of in polite company.

 

Talk **** get hit

 

[actionhero112]

I don't know that the Solas conflict was "built up over the entirety of Inquisition"...it was mostly just built up in the end of Trespasser.

But honestly, it depends on how it was handled.  As I mentioned, part of the reason it worked in DAI was because the war was just a smoke screen. If Solas gets screwed over rather early on because he's just being played as well...maybe it could work?  Of course, there are only so many times you can manipulate the manipulator of the manipulator of the manipulator before the franchise turns into Metal Gear, so pulling the same twist twice is not advisable.

 

And Solas manipulated Cory, just as Cory manipulated the mage rebellion. We've already reached the manipulating manipulator status. Critical mass imminent. 

 

The entirety of the conflict with Cory was started and in part ended by Solas. He gave you skyhold when you had no place to go, revealed the nature of the artifact to you etc. I feel safe to say that Inquisition was largely an introduction to Solas's conflict and his role as an antagonist. 

 

Here let me phrase the question differently. Do you like having the major plotpoint of the previous game wrapped up in one story mission? 

 

Previous to Cory's reveal, everyone thought the mage rebellion was going to be the entirety, plot of Inquisition, if you recall. Turns out it was only a minor plotpoint. 

[MKDAWUSS]

And it pretty much limited itself to Ferelden.

Could have been developed a bit more in DAI.

 

I'd imagine the tensions are still there, since it sounds like the Circles are back (albeit in a different form).

[Lazarillo]

And Solas manipulated Cory, just as Cory manipulated the mage rebellion. We've already reached the manipulating manipulator status. Critical mass imminent. 

 

The entirety of the conflict with Cory was started and in part ended by Solas. He gave you skyhold when you had no place to go, revealed the nature of the artifact to you etc. I feel safe to say that Inquisition was largely an introduction to Solas's conflict and his role as an antagonist. 

 

Here let me phrase the question differently. Do you like having the major plotpoint of the previous game wrapped up in one story mission? 

 

Previous to Cory's reveal, everyone thought the mage rebellion was going to be the entirety, plot of Inquisition, if you recall. Turns out it was only a minor plotpoint. 

 

Oh I agree that we're hitting critical mass, which is why I say I probably would be less pleased if that's how they handle, but more my point is "it's not unthinkable that it could work"

 

As to your rephrase, let me rephrase my own answer: I am fine with that if it's handled well enough.  In fact, I think the separate games in the series should, for the most part, be their own separate stories, so I (a)think the series needs to quit it with the cliffhangers anyway, and (b)am fine with the idea of moving on to an original story rather than just tying threads that were left hanging across a handful of years.  Cliffhangers work for TV when you get them dealt with on a weekly basis...they just aren't as effective for movies and video games due to longer production times.

 

And actually, what I recall was that from some of the earliest hyping I saw for Inquisition, it was established that there was a mysterious "elder one" that was supposedly pulling the strings, so I can't help ya there.

[In Exile]

And Solas manipulated Cory, just as Cory manipulated the mage rebellion. We've already reached the manipulating manipulator status. Critical mass imminent. 

 

The entirety of the conflict with Cory was started and in part ended by Solas. He gave you skyhold when you had no place to go, revealed the nature of the artifact to you etc. I feel safe to say that Inquisition was largely an introduction to Solas's conflict and his role as an antagonist. 

 

Here let me phrase the question differently. Do you like having the major plotpoint of the previous game wrapped up in one story mission? 

 

Previous to Cory's reveal, everyone thought the mage rebellion was going to be the entirety, plot of Inquisition, if you recall. Turns out it was only a minor plotpoint. 

 

I'm not sure I'd say the mage rebellion was the major plotpoint. DA:2 didn't really have a major plotpoint. The most common theme was templar v. mages, but that was really just a red herring to all of the real plot relevaltions (e.g. Flemeth being Mythal, basically, Red Lyrium in the deep roads, Corypheus in the DLC, the Qunari etc.). Kind of how Corypheus himself was a red herring in DA:I. 

[rpgfan321]

To be fair, the implication is that Corypheus had a hand in starting the war more or less in the first place.  Granted, he wasn't the only factor, but Leliana mentioned that Tevinter (or, as we can now presume, the Venatori) had agents infiltrating the Circles to sew discord, and the Templars were also his puppets due to the red Lyrium.  Top it all off, the Epilogue slides all make it pretty clear that the strife is still there, with the Mages pretty much ready to revolt again at the slightest prodding. 

I don't think fights over mage rights is over, but what started in DA2 did end in a fizzle. And I also agree that given the epilogue slide, it looks to me mages will revolt again, somehow, in the near future. There are various factions involved in that one voluminous umbrella called the Circle and politics is heavily involved. Those squabbling bookworms aren't done yet over how they should be treated. Normal plebians still fear mages for what they can do and can become even with Leliana as Divine. It's not all lovey dovey with mages and templars after Inquisition.

 

I guess an evil magister (and an ancient elf who is also god-ish?) trying to destroy known world made the war seem small and more like a strife.  

[Navasha]

Well, to be fair.   It wasn't just the chantry that lost all of its top level people in the explosion of the breech.    People forget that there were large forces of mages and Templars that were wiped out there as well.  

 

If both sides lost half their forces in a single blow, especially after they had largely fought themselves to a standstill, then its not surprising the war ended abruptly.   There is likely always going to be tensions between the two factions.    However, between the new college of enchanters and the new seekers (if you encouraged these to be formed), things should hopefully be better.

[JadeDragon]

That war couldve been done alot better. But we had more of it then the orlais civil war. Which isn't saying much. Hopefully the Qunari War gets its just dues.

[NRieh]

 

Tevinter (or, as we can now presume, the Venatori) had agents infiltrating the Circles to sew discord

One word - Anders. Anders did not do it because of the Tevinter agents, he does not even seem to be aware about the mage-templar (the one that captures Hawke's friend\sibling)  group we encounter during the end of act 3. 

 

 

 

And Solas manipulated Cory

All the DA2 plot does not really fit into 'mastermind manipulations' theory, imo. It has too many random factors. Hawke surviving Ostegar, Hawke reaching Kirkwall (Flemmeth might not be random, but they have to make it across the sea on their own), Hawke getting into the city, Varric recruiting Hawke, Anders' friend Karl being taken to Kirkwall - remove any of those, and the overall plot is ruined. And I just don't see how most of those plots could have been planned beforehand and\or manipulated. 

 

It's all about people and their personal decisions...which somehow have rather big consequences. 

[Darkly Tranquil]

The resolution of the Mage-Templar War was terribly underwhelming. After all the build up in DA2 and Asunder, for it to be dealt with in such a perfunctory fashion was hugely disappointing. I came in expecting it to be one of the major conflicts of the entire game (and to feature lots of characters from the book; I still feel dudded at not getting to meet Rhys and Evangeline), and it was over by the end of Act 1. Major letdown.

[Xetykins]

Well

Just want to say your Quizzy is absolutely gorgeous!

/wanders off again

[Mr.House]

I agree that the culmination of the mage-templar conflict was rather anti-climactic. You don't really get the chance to directly support a side, you just fight a bunch of crazy mages and templars in the Hinterlands (which was a boring quest), then conscript or ally with one of the factions for practical reasons (which were cool quests). And in the end that barely even makes a difference to the game or the ending slides.

Eh, getting an entirely different secondary villain and side quest to match them, who attacks Haven (along with possibly killing Fiona) and which faction is going after the warden ally in Crestwood changed are pretty big differences, more so when Calpernia and her quest are 100000% better then Samson (along with her side quest giving Coryfish character and depth).

[BansheeOwnage]

Eh, getting an entirely different secondary villain and side quest to match them, who attacks Haven (along with possibly killing Fiona) and which faction is going after the warden ally in Crestwood changed are pretty big differences, more so when Calpernia and her quest are 100000% better then Samson (along with her side quest giving Coryfish character and depth).

Oh I agree with all that. (Although I am torn between Calpernia's more interesting quest and role and getting as much Cullen content as possible in Samson's questline ) I guess I used poor phrasing. Which side you choose to include in your Inquisition makes a good difference in the game, but I expected a practical difference such as Skyhold getting attacked and mages doing better in certain areas than templars and vice versa (or in the Arbor Wilds etc). Differences that come from which faction is at Skyhold in force, not just changes that don't really relate to mages or templars at all. I'm not typing the best today. Does that make sense? I stand by my comment that it barely makes a difference in the end for the slides though, since Trespasser's are almost identical regardless of choice and Divine.

[Mr.House]

Oh I agree with all that. (Although I am torn between Calpernia's more interesting quest and role and getting as much Cullen content as possible in Samson's questline ) I guess I used poor phrasing. Which side you choose to include in your Inquisition makes a good difference in the game, but I expected a practical difference such as Skyhold getting attacked and mages doing better in certain areas than templars and vice versa (or in the Arbor Wilds etc). Differences that come from which faction is at Skyhold in force, not just changes that don't really relate to mages or templars at all. I'm not typing the best today. Does that make sense? I stand by my comment that it barely makes a difference in the end for the slides though, since Trespasser's are almost identical regardless of choice and Divine.

It would have been nice if the mages had someone like Ser Barris who you could send on war table missions and even promote them to a role, who like Calpernia is a big reason I normally pick Champions of the Just.

 

Hell even putting Fiona on trial would have made me enjoy the mage side more but alas I lose Calpernia, Ser Barris and Fiona is still so CotJ is just better minus some loss of Cullen.

[Darkstarr11]

WHO stopped the Mage Templar War?

 

Corypheus.  NOT the Inquisitor.  The Inquisitor 'negotiated' with one of the factions.  The other was still technically at war.  SO, Corypheus took the OTHER faction and curb stomped Haven into the ground.  At that point, which ever faction sided with you ceased to be in essence and helped become the Inquisition.  Sure, they split off later, but immediately afterwards, they made up a good chunk of the Inquisition.  The OTHER side also ceased to be, and became one of Corypheus's minions.  ALL under the command of the Venatori.  Mages, basically.  It stopped being the Mage Templar war, and became the Inquisition/Venatori war.  

[Fiery Phoenix]

It's worth mentioning that I never even realized the war was over until I overheard two randoms taking a walk in the Hinterlands say so.

[Mr.House]

WHO stopped the Mage Templar War?

 

Corypheus.  NOT the Inquisitor.  The Inquisitor 'negotiated' with one of the factions.  The other was still technically at war.  SO, Corypheus took the OTHER faction and curb stomped Haven into the ground.  At that point, which ever faction sided with you ceased to be in essence and helped become the Inquisition.  Sure, they split off later, but immediately afterwards, they made up a good chunk of the Inquisition.  The OTHER side also ceased to be, and became one of Corypheus's minions.  ALL under the command of the Venatori.  Mages, basically.  It stopped being the Mage Templar war, and became the Inquisition/Venatori war.  

Pretty much the faction we save and the faction Coryfish takes was a big chunk of them (outside the red templars and Venatori). While there are still mages and templars in other parts that either not part of the main group or away at the time (as shown in war table missions after, mostly for Ser Barris), it still could have been handled better like going with the Chargers to investigate the place oyu did not go and seeing it first hand maybe finding Alexious dead or even seeing him killed, seeing the mages leaving in mass or finding alot the masscare of the templars at redoubt if you saved the mages and fighting Envy in a different form. The list goes on.

[thats1evildude]

I know people complain about not seeing any of the Mage-Templar war, but for the most part, I think it was largely fought in the form of small skirmishes throughout southern Thedas, like the conflict raging through the Hinterlands. Aside from the siege of Andoral's Reach, there was never a point in the war where one army stood on one side and another army stood on the other and they went at it in a free-for-all.

 

"Peace" was achieved via the simple fact that neither side had the numbers anymore to continue the war. Either the majority of free mages or templars were recruited by Corypheus, and even if you go the Templar path, he still manages to recruit a pretty sizeable force of Red Templars.